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h3llfish

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  1. Oh, I think it's a pretty similar situation. In both cases, members of a religion were guilty of heinous crimes. Or is child molestation not too big of a deal to you? Again, in both cases, we punish individuals, not classes of individuals. That's the American way. That's the freedom that so many have fought and died for. You are un-American. Our constitution means nothing to you. You want us all to live under YOUR religion. No thanks.
  2. Hardly un-American. There is nothing American about allowing a stealth jihad, a stealth form of warfare, to take place against us simply because the enemy disguises itself as a "religion". And we certainly did our best to keep the communists out of our government and out military, now didn't we? And those who belonged to the Communist Party? We watched them like hawks! All your huffy-puffy ignorant variant of "patriotism" will do you no good when the Muslims reach Phase 4 and they come to cut your head off, convert you, or collect your dhimmi tax. I'm sure you'll be so comforted to be able to say "Well at least I wasn't un-American." Yeah. Uh-huh. This brings me to my next question for you. If the radical Muslims who are hell-bent on destroying America are so numerous, why are they not killing us right now here in the states? If I'm not mistaken, Islamic extremists haven't taken an American life on American soil since 9/11. Why wait?
  3. I don't think Islam should be banned. If Islam is banned, then what would stop the government from banning Christianity? I'm glad the Constitution is in place to guarantee our religious freedom in this country. I'm also glad there are things in place that are meant to protect us from the radical elements of any violent group. I agree with all of that totally. Once we ban Islam, one would have to wonder who was next. Catholics? Scientologists? Atheists? We don't even ban Nazis or the KKK in this country - that's how much we love freedom. I'm just feeling like Orion doesn't love freedom in quite the same way I do. I'm not saying that he's a bad American, but I am saying that his position on this issue is un-American. I know that some of the insults that fly around here are distasteful to a nice guy like you, but I think that you make a difference by being around, and being so relentlessly classy. It just serves to remind those of us who sometimes transgress how we should be acting. Here's the perfect example of how somebody like 0rion is more vilified for having an honest, emotionally charged indifference towards a group of people that are 100% a part of the major problem in our world today, than what the responsible party for all of it are being vilified. Frankly, I don't give a damn about what his feelings are towards Muslims in general, because quite frankly, they pretty much deserve it and they've made this bed of nails, so if somebody like 0rion wants to tell them to go sleep on it...then big f@#king deal. I doubt he's about to go walk into a subway with some explosives strapped to his chest an try to blow a bunch of them up, but if he did, boy oh boy would he suddenly be the poster child for what's wrong with Americans today and all the people that vote Republican! This issue isn't about 0rions personal feelings on ALL Muslims (I don't much care for their ways myself) this isn't about ANYONE'S personal feelings on ALL Muslims, good, bad or indifferent. The issue is about whether it's RIGHT for these pr!cks to be so pushy about building this ONE Mosque where they want to? One damn Mosque of over 1,200 in America, and suddenly we're just showing our stripes to the world about how we hate ALL Muslims or something. 0rion isn't the bad guy here, but he sure seems to be the distractionary target, to get people off the subject of why these Muslims are so hellbent on pushing such an unpopular project, i nthe face of the families of those lost on 9/11, and onto this sappy-ass pity the poor muslims in America happy horsesh@# and OH...if you don't want the Mosque built, you're UN-AMERICAN and spit on the Constitution. The Fort Hood incident didn't exactly help to lessen any doubt and suspicion some might have about the Muslim community, and who might be infiltrating our country under less than amicable intentions and who really is here for peace and prosperity? Anybody got the secret on just HOW we can tell the two apart? I didn't think so! I think enough damage has been done and the wounds still not completely healed, for some of us to be bitter and untrusting of them. They need to reassure us, not the other way around, and letting them walk all over us under some bullsh@# idea that it's the AMERICAN way is and a jolly good show on our part is a crock of steaming sh@#. Orion is not the bad guy. I just think that his suggestion that we ban Islam is quite an extreme measure, and I'm trying to get a sense of how he arrived at that position. I haven't had much to say to you in this thread because we're not too far off on this issue. I think that that people have a right to build their houses of worship where they please, subject to the same laws as all the other religions. But I certainly don't support the building of this particular Mosque, because the location is pretty insensitive. If they are allowed to build the Mosque, then people who are offended by it will be able to exercise their own freedom and picket the Mosque.
  4. See, it's the "what have you got for me" that I have issues with. No one ever wants to do the work themselves, they want to be spoon fed. And I generally disliked doing that for two reasons. One, that sort of person usually just dismisses anything given off-hand, which means it was a waste of time to bother. And two, "feed a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish..." The single best, and irrefutable source is a book called Muslim Mafia. You can get it at WND, at Amazon, or even at the public library. Here's a website about it: Muslim Mafia Website WND.com also has plenty of articles on CAIR, as do other sites. Here is a cut and paste of some damning information about CAIR: http://www.worldnetd...w&pageId=103117 WND has previously reported on CAIR's extensive ties to terrorism and extremism. Although CAIR is a nonprofit organization, it does not disclose complete directories of its staff or advisory boards, and even refuses to make its federal tax filings readily available to the public. But a review of federal criminal court documents, past IRS 990 tax records and Federal Election Commission records detailing donor occupations, reveals that Washington-based CAIR has been associated with a disturbing number of convicted terrorists or felons in terrorism probes, as well as suspected terrorists and active targets of terrorism investigations. "Their offices have been a turnstile for terrorists and their supporters," said one FBI veteran familiar with recent and ongoing cases involving CAIR officials. WND has reported that at least 14 CAIR officials have been caught up in terror investigations. Congressional leaders say they are warning lawmakers and other Washington officials to disassociate from the group due to its growing terror ties. "Groups like CAIR have a proven record of senior officials being indicted and either imprisoned or deported from the United States," said U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick, R-N.C., co-founder of the House Anti-Terrorism/Jihad Caucus. CAIR itself recently was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in an alleged scheme to funnel $12 million to the terrorist group Hamas. In the Holy Land Foundation case, federal prosecutors also listed CAIR as a member of the U.S. branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, a worldwide jihadist movement that gave rise to Hamas, al-Qaida and other terrorist groups. The government will retry the Holy Land case, which ended in a hung jury. "There was a lot of evidence presented at the recent Holy Land Foundation trial which exposed CAIR and others as front groups for the Muslim Brotherhood in the United States," Myrick said. Still, CAIR is lobbying House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers and other sympathetic members of Congress to pressure the Justice Department to expunge its name from the case, arguing the negative publicity has hurt membership and fundraising. The federal judge during the trial refused a written request by the group to strike its name from the list of co-conspirators. The petition is still pending before the court. CAIR, which runs 33 offices and chapters nationwide, also recently helped defeat an anti-terror plan by Los Angeles police to map the local Muslim community for extremist neighborhoods. Critics counter that CAIR has no legitimate voice to make such complaints, because the group is itself an extremist organization that has employed or appointed to its boards of directors and advisers an inordinate number of radical co-conspirators, suspected and convicted terrorists, and other criminals. Indeed, the list is long and growing, and includes: Muthanna al-Hanooti: The CAIR director's home was raided last year by FBI agents in connection with an active terrorism investigation. Agents also searched the offices of his advocacy group, Focus on Advocacy and Advancement of International Relations, which al-Hanooti operates out of Dearborn, Mich., and Washington, D.C. FAAIR claims to be a consulting firm raising awareness of Sunni grievances in Iraq, but investigators suspect it's a front supporting the Sunni-led insurgency. Al-Hanooti, who emigrated to the U.S. from Iraq, formerly helped run a suspected Hamas terror front called LIFE for Relief and Development. Its Michigan offices also were raided last September. In 2004, LIFE's Baghdad office was raided by U.S. troops, who seized files and computers. Al-Hanooti is related to Shiek Mohammed al-Hanooti, an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. He currently leads prayers at a Washington-area mosque that aided some of the 9/11 hijackers. The FBI alleges al-Hanooti, an ethnic-Palestinian who also emigrated from Iraq, raised money for Hamas. In fact, "Al-Hanooti collected over $6 million for support of Hamas," according to a 2001 FBI report, and was present with CAIR and Holy Land officials at a secret Hamas fundraising summit held last decade at a Philadelphia hotel. Prosecutors recently added his name to the list of unindicted co-conspirators in the Holy Land case. Al-Hanooti denies supporting Hamas, although he's praised Palestinian suicide bombers as "martyrs" who are "alive in the eyes of Allah." Earlier this year, his younger brother, Hamid al-Hanooti, was found dead in Iraq after reportedly being held by local security forces as a suspected terrorist. Laura Jaghlit: A civil-rights coordinator for CAIR, her Washington-area home was raided by federal agents after 9/11 as part of an investigation into terrorist financing, money laundering and tax fraud. Her husband Mohammed Jaghlit, a key leader in the Saudi-backed SAAR network, is a target of the still-active probe. Last decade, Jaghlit sent two letters accompanying donations – one for $10,000, the other for $5,000 – from the SAAR Foundation to Sami al-Arian, now a convicted terrorist. In each letter, according to a federal affidavit, "Jaghlit instructed al-Arian not to disclose the contribution publicly or to the media." Investigators suspect the funds were intended for Palestinian terrorists via a U.S. front called WISE, which at the time employed an official who personally delivered a satellite phone battery to Osama bin Laden. The same official also worked for Jaghlit's group. In addition, Jaghlit donated a total of $37,200 to the Holy Land Foundation, which prosecutors say is a Hamas front. Jaghlit subsequently was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the ongoing case. Abdurahman Alamoudi: Another CAIR director, he is serving 23 years in federal prison for plotting terrorism. Alamoudi, who was caught on tape complaining bin Laden hadn't killed enough Americans in the U.S. embassy bombings in Africa, was one of al-Qaida's top fund-raisers in America, according to the U.S. Treasury Department. Nihad Awad: For the first time, wiretap evidence from the Holy Land case puts CAIR's executive director at a Philadelphia meeting of Hamas leaders and activists that was secretly recorded by the FBI. Participants allegedly hatched a plot to disguise payments to Hamas terrorists as charitable giving. During the meeting, according to FBI transcripts, Awad was recorded discussing the propaganda effort. He mentions Ghassan Dahduli, whom he worked with at the time at the Islamic Association for Palestine, another Hamas front. Both were IAP officers. Dahduli's name also was listed in the address book of bin Laden's personal secretary, Wadi al-Hage, who is serving a life sentence in prison for his role in the U.S. embassy bombings. Dahduli, an ethnic-Palestinian like Awad, was deported to Jordan after 9/11 for refusing to cooperate in the terror investigation. Awad's and Dahduli's phone numbers are listed in a Muslim Brotherhood document seized by federal investigators revealing "important phone numbers" for the "Palestine Section" of the Brotherhood in America. The court exhibit shows Hamas fugitive Mousa Abu Marzook listed on the same page with Awad. Omar Ahmad: U.S. prosecutors also named CAIR's founder and chairman emeritus as an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land case. Ahmad too was placed at the Philly meeting, FBI special agent Lara Burns testified at the trial. Prosecutors also designated him as a member of the Muslim Brotherhood's "Palestine Committee" in America. Ahmad, like his CAIR partner Awad, is ethnic-Palestinian. (Though both Ahmad and Awad were senior leaders of IAP, the Hamas front, neither of their biographical sketches posted on CAIR's website mentions their IAP past.) Nabil Sadoun: A current CAIR board member, Sadoun has served on the board of the United Association for Studies and Research, which investigators believe to be a key Hamas front in America. In fact, Sadoun co-founded UASR with Hamas leader Marzook. The Justice Department added UASR to the list of unindicted co-conspirators in the Holy Land case. Mohamed Nimer: CAIR's current research director also served as a board director for UASR, the strategic arm for Hamas in the U.S. (Tellingly, CAIR neglects to mention Nimer's and Sadoun's roles in UASR in their bios.) Rafeeq Jaber: A founding director of CAIR, Jaber was the long-time president of the Islamic Association for Palestine. In 2002, a federal judge found that "the Islamic Association for Palestine has acted in support of Hamas." In his capacity as IAP chief, Jaber praised Hezbollah attacks on Israel. He also served on the board of a radical mosque in the Chicago area Rabith Hadid: The CAIR fund-raiser was a founder of the Global Relief Foundation, which after 9/11 was blacklisted by Treasury for financing al-Qaida and other terror groups. Its assets were frozen in December 2001. Hadid was arrested on terror-related charges and deported to Lebanon in 2003. Siraj Wahhaj: A member of CAIR's board of advisers, Wahhaj was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The radical Brooklyn imam was close to convicted terrorist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, and defended him during his trial. He was also a featured speaker at the dinner. Randall "Ismail" Royer: The former CAIR communications specialist and civil-rights coordinator is serving 20 years in prison in connection with the Virginia Jihad Network, which he led while employed by CAIR at its Washington headquarters. The group trained to kill U.S. soldiers overseas, cased the FBI headquarters, and cheered the space shuttle Columbia tragedy. Al-Qaida operative Ahmed Abu Ali, convicted of plotting to assassinate President Bush, was among those who trained with Royer's Northern Virginia cell Bassam Khafagi: Another CAIR official, Khafagi was arrested in 2003 while serving as CAIR's director of community affairs. He pleaded guilty to charges of bank and visa fraud stemming from a federal counterterror probe of his leadership role in the Islamic Assembly of North America, which has supported al-Qaida and advocated suicide attacks on America. He was sentenced to 10 months in prison and deported to his native Egypt. Ghassan Elashi: One of CAIR's founding directors, he was convicted in 2004 of illegally shipping high-tech goods to terror state Syria, and is serving 80 months in prison. He's also charged with providing material support to Hamas in the Holy Land Foundation trial. He was chairman of the charity, which provided seed capital to CAIR. Elashi is related to Hamas leader Marzook Hamza Yusuf: The FBI investigated the CAIR board member after 9/11, because just two days before the attacks, he made an ominous prediction to a Muslim audience. "This country is facing a terrible fate and the reason for that is because this country stands condemned," Yusuf warned. "It stands condemned like Europe stood condemned because of what it did. And lest people forget, Europe suffered two world wars after conquering the Muslim lands." CAIR, which receives financial backing from Saudi and Emirati royalty, denies charges that it has a secret agenda to Islamize America. But a Muslim Brotherhood document declassified in the Holy Land case reveals that CAIR's parent was among Muslim organizations enlisted in a secret plot to destroy the American system from within and eventually take over the country. Written early last decade in Arabic, the manifesto lays bare the subversive role of CAIR's forerunner, the Islamic Association for Palestine, and other Muslim groups in America to carry out a "grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and sabotaging its miserable house by the hands of the believers, so that it is eliminated and Allah's religion is made victorious over all other religions." CAIR's founder Ahmad, while claiming to be a moderate and patriotic American, last decade told a group of Muslims in Northern California that they are in America to help assert Islam's rule over the country. "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant," a local reporter quoted him as saying, adding, "The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." Ahmad insists he was misquoted. However, an FBI wiretap transcript quotes Ahmad agreeing with terrorist suspects gathered last decade at the secret Philly meeting to "camouflage" their true intentions. He compared it to the head fake in basketball. "This is like one who plays basketball: He makes a player believe that he is doing this, while he does something else," Ahmad said. "I agree with you. Like they say, politics is a completion of war." What's more, Hooper, CAIR's communications director, also has expressed his wish to overturn the U.S. system of government in favor of an "Islamic" state. "I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future," Hooper said in a 1993 interview with the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education." Though conceding he made the remark, Hooper argues that he's never advocated violence. He says he and Muslims like him should work instead through the media and use "education" to help turn America into an Islamic state. AND... http://www.wnd.com/i...w&pageId=121561 Meanwhile, CAIR, which claims falsely to receive "no support from any overseas group or government," was revealed in "Muslim Mafia" to have received a $500,000 gift from the very same Saudi Prince al Waleed bin Talal – not to mention gifts of $112,000 from Saudi Prince Abdullah bin Mosa'ad, at least $300,000 from the Saudi-based Organization of the Islamic Conference, $250,000 from the Islamic Development Bank and at least $17,000 from the American office of the Saudi-based International Islamic Relief Organization. It's a nest of vipers and terrorists, of that there can be no doubt. And these are just small pieces of the damning evidence. Check out the Muslim Mafia. Lots more information there. [Edit: Not sure why the forum software is screwing up, but there are lots of tags that are not working.] Wow, long post. Did not have time to read it all. Ok, so CAIR is essentially the PR arm of Islam. Got it. And, probably unsurprisingly, some of those folks are either directly involved in terrorism, or are at least sympathetic to terrorism. So Muslims who contribute to this group are, in your eyes, a part of terrorism. Did I sum up all 20 volumes there? My reaction to all of this is to say that this reminds me of the Catholics and their problems with the various child molestation scandals. I am 100 percent against both terrorism and child molestation. Any individuals involved should be punished severely. Should either religion be banned in America? Hell no. I spend the bulk of my waking hours at work. I just don't have the luxury of reading as much as a I would like. I do spend some time each day educating myself about current events. If you want people like me to digest any of what you say, I suggest you offer it in smaller bites.
  5. I don't think Islam should be banned. If Islam is banned, then what would stop the government from banning Christianity? I'm glad the Constitution is in place to guarantee our religious freedom in this country. I'm also glad there are things in place that are meant to protect us from the radical elements of any violent group. I agree with all of that totally. Once we ban Islam, one would have to wonder who was next. Catholics? Scientologists? Atheists? We don't even ban Nazis or the KKK in this country - that's how much we love freedom. I'm just feeling like Orion doesn't love freedom in quite the same way I do. I'm not saying that he's a bad American, but I am saying that his position on this issue is un-American. I know that some of the insults that fly around here are distasteful to a nice guy like you, but I think that you make a difference by being around, and being so relentlessly classy. It just serves to remind those of us who sometimes transgress how we should be acting.
  6. The reason you find that ignorant is because you yourself are ignorant of the reality of the situation. But this is the classic example of how do you explain to a dog that it's a dog? It has no concept of itself. Likewise, you have no concept of the mechanisms running Islam and the details of the big picture. So it's not worth my time to explain it to you because you're not interested in learning the truth or even attempting to dig for it. But for the sake of the edification of others, I will give you a prime example. Millions of Muslims donate to CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations). CAIR has been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever to be a (mainly) terrorist-financed, terrorist-financing, terrorist enabling/endorsing organization and the #1 source of Islamic propaganda and frivolous lawsuits in the country. Muslims who foolishly give money to CAIR are in fact donating money that will go to buy weapons that the terrorists then use to murder innocent people. That money is also used to promote lawsuits against people like Michael Savage and others who speak out about the truth about Islam in an attempt to silence dissent or criticism. So those Muslims are, to quote the Soviets, "useful idiots". And the ones who know that CAIR has terrorist links but donate anyway are willfully endorsing and supporting terrorism. So they and the useful idiots are all part of the problem. Ignorance is no excuse. Ok, let's start with CAIR. I'm open-minded. You've made this assertion that CAIR is heavily in bed with terrorists. You said it's been proven beyond any doubt whatsoever... but you didn't provide evidence. And please, it's a bit much to simply link to a website and ask me to find it myself. Most folks around here will provide a link to a source in such a way that people who are interested can verify the information without spending an hour digging around. So, with that in mind... what have you got for me?
  7. Hate Monger is what progressives like to spew when they are losing an arguement No, it's what we call hateful bigots who suggest that we shred our constitution by banning religions. Orion lost this one by being un-American. And yet NewGuy says it's the liberals who are the real fascists. Unreal. Sounds like your talking about the far left?Usually they care nothing for religion but had to get in on the mosque and against what was right.A few of them are fans of Chairman Mou and hate the way the constitition is from there years as hippie weirdos back in the 60's Far left liberal can be hate mongers too The fact that I am not religious doesn't mean that I don't value freedom. Quite the opposite. The religious freedom our constitution guarantees is also the freedom not to believe. But please keep in mind that both the Bible and Koran instruct believers to kill non-believers. So it's not the atheists of the world that have the problem with intolerance. Timothy McVeigh was an Atheist. Would you think he had some issues? Since when did religion suddenly account for all the worlds intolerance and violence? Above religion..I'd place GREED as the number 1 cause of most violence in the world. Wars might be fought over religious intolerance, but on a daily basis murder and assault goes on by the thousands and all for the love of money and regret over not having it. Uncle Jesse, you really do just pull stuff out of your ass, don't you? No, McVeigh was not an atheist, he was a Roman Catholic. In his own words, from a recorded interview with Time magazine: http://www.time.com/time/nation/printout/0,8816,109478,00.html And yet, despite his awful crime, you won't see me calling for our constitution to be thrown in the wood chipper, and Orion has.
  8. The problem with saying that we all serve is that it seems to imply that all of us made an equal contribution. And that just ain't the case. We all serve our society, but we don't all put our asses on the line. That's the chicken part. Viper has convictions, but he doesn't feel them so strongly that he will put his own ass on the line. I wanted to know why, and he doesn't feel like saying.
  9. You talk about morals and principals, but it's just talk. You're as much a chickenhawk as Dick Cheney. You didn't serve. If the invasion of Iraq was so right and so very very manly, then why didn't you join up and take part? The invasion of Iraq was necessary for the good of our troops. To me, that's a DAMN GOOD thing and I was glad they proposed to do it by force if Saddam was going to continue to call our bluff and thumb his nose at us. He was the only one in the Middle East who did and he paid for it. He gambled and lost. As far as the "manly" thing you seem so very very offended by, and still barking up the wrong tree over, has nothing to do with war and invasions but the testicular fortitude to do what's RIGHT even when it's not the most popular. How do you know I didn't try to join? Passive AND a P U S S Y! You're the kind of snotty pip squeak I can't stand to be around. A self proclaimed intellectual that thinks they know it all, and what I so endearingly refer to as a "Spineless Liberal Puke Jackass", the epitome of an APPEASER...someone that throws another to the crocodile hoping it will eat them last. Thanks for the compliment though. I think Cheney is a pretty damn good man. A far cry better than someone like John Kerry who claims to have served and was proven to be a cowardly lying sack of sh@# about his experience in Veitnam and had the audacity to ridicule what others did. Another spineless croc feeder. Why didn't you serve? How about none of your damn business? If my perceived personal life and employment setbacks are regular targets of your attacks, what makes you think I'm going to add fuel to the fire? I see. So the war in Iraq was a good idea... as long as it was someone else doing it. Gotcha. That's called being a chickenhawk. You and Dick should go hunting together sometime.
  10. Mongoose, which scripture(s) from the Bible are you referring to? Deuteronomy 13:15. Well, 12-15 to get the whole gist of it. Granted, I'll be the 1st to admit that since it's from the Old Testament, most Christians don't take it as law. My point is, if Muslims have to take everything in the Koran as law, then Christians should be expected to do the same, and that's simply not a good idea! Actually, most of Deuteronomy 13 talks about killing those who even think about worshipping another God. The way I read these scriptures, God is referring to specific cities at the time He had given his people, the Israelites, wherein there might arise those that are referred to as "children of Belial"; the Hebrew term means "without worth". (Later in the New Testament the term "Belial" is synonomous with Satan actually.) Specifically in these scriptures it refers to those that are involved in idolatry, these "children of Belial", are those that would create false gods in an effort to willfully deceive God's people. I guess God was so serious about His covenant with His chosen people that these deceivers and false idol worshippers (again, amongst His own chosen people) were deserving of death, not just believers of any religion they happened to encounter. There's no sweeping command to slay unbelievers. There's a given context for these scriptures, like you implied, Mongoose. God was addressing the Israelites at a given time in history, not to believers, and later, Christians in general. DB, do you feel that Islam should be banned in the US? Do you think that Orion has gone a bit too far? I appreciate that you have thoughtful explanations for some of the passages in the Bible that a non-believer might find troubling. Muslims also are pretty good at explaining away the more troubling passages from their holy books. They too will remind us to take the passages in context. Is it not possible that Orion has misrepresented his religion, in the same way that others misrepresent yours?
  11. Hate Monger is what progressives like to spew when they are losing an arguement No, it's what we call hateful bigots who suggest that we shred our constitution by banning religions. Orion lost this one by being un-American. And yet NewGuy says it's the liberals who are the real fascists. Unreal. There's 1,209 mosques in the United States. Doesn't seem to lend itself to your overly dramatic (as usual) conclusion about shredding the Constitution or banning religions and Conservatives being un-American or intolerant of other religions not Christian. I said that Orion was intolerant and un-American, because of his call to ban Islam in America. So no, I was not being overly dramatic. I'm a bit surprised that you haven't condemned this guy, Viper. I know you're conservative, but this guy is a bit much. Do you also feel that Islam should be banned in the US? No...and this issue of the Mosque is NOT about banning Islam. It's being turned into that, because anything that puts Americans in a precarious position and under the microscope, is what the Left seem to be all about and like to push. What..you don't want a Mosque to be built close to ground zero? You must be a HATE MONGER!!" Do you also feel that Islam should be banned in the US?
  12. Hate Monger is what progressives like to spew when they are losing an arguement No, it's what we call hateful bigots who suggest that we shred our constitution by banning religions. Orion lost this one by being un-American. And yet NewGuy says it's the liberals who are the real fascists. Unreal. There's 1,209 mosques in the United States. Doesn't seem to lend itself to your overly dramatic (as usual) conclusion about shredding the Constitution or banning religions and Conservatives being un-American or intolerant of other religions not Christian. I said that Orion was intolerant and un-American, because of his call to ban Islam in America. So no, I was not being overly dramatic. I'm a bit surprised that you haven't condemned this guy, Viper. I know you're conservative, but this guy is a bit much. Do you also feel that Islam should be banned in the US?
  13. Hate Monger is what progressives like to spew when they are losing an arguement No, it's what we call hateful bigots who suggest that we shred our constitution by banning religions. Orion lost this one by being un-American. And yet NewGuy says it's the liberals who are the real fascists. Unreal. Sounds like your talking about the far left?Usually they care nothing for religion but had to get in on the mosque and against what was right.A few of them are fans of Chairman Mou and hate the way the constitition is from there years as hippie weirdos back in the 60's Far left liberal can be hate mongers too The fact that I am not religious doesn't mean that I don't value freedom. Quite the opposite. The religious freedom our constitution guarantees is also the freedom not to believe. But please keep in mind that both the Bible and Koran instruct believers to kill non-believers. So it's not the atheists of the world that have the problem with intolerance.
  14. Listen moron. Why would anyone go through the trouble of doing research for someone so arrogantly dismissive as yourself? I told you specifically that the Religion of Peace website has a link to a page that explains how they arrived at that number. But you're the kind who isn't interested in facts or debate. You simply want the other person to do all the work. That's your problem. Remain ignorant and lazy. Or get off your lazy dhimmi ass and go learn something. I was more generous in what I already gave you. You gave the statistic. The onus is clearly on you to back it up as factual information. It's just not my job to do your research for you. I'm lazy? I source my statistics and other facts. It seems that's a bit too hard for you.
  15. You talk about morals and principals, but it's just talk. You're as much a chickenhawk as Dick Cheney. You didn't serve. If the invasion of Iraq was so right and so very very manly, then why didn't you join up and take part? The invasion of Iraq was necessary for the good of our troops. To me, that's a DAMN GOOD thing and I was glad they proposed to do it by force if Saddam was going to continue to call our bluff and thumb his nose at us. He was the only one in the Middle East who did and he paid for it. He gambled and lost. As far as the "manly" thing you seem so very very offended by, and still barking up the wrong tree over, has nothing to do with war and invasions but the testicular fortitude to do what's RIGHT even when it's not the most popular. How do you know I didn't try to join? Passive AND a P U S S Y! You're the kind of snotty pip squeak I can't stand to be around. A self proclaimed intellectual that thinks they know it all, and what I so endearingly refer to as a "Spineless Liberal Puke Jackass", the epitome of an APPEASER...someone that throws another to the crocodile hoping it will eat them last. Thanks for the compliment though. I think Cheney is a pretty damn good man. A far cry better than someone like John Kerry who claims to have served and was proven to be a cowardly lying sack of sh@# about his experience in Veitnam and had the audacity to ridicule what others did. Another spineless croc feeder. Why didn't you serve?
  16. Hate Monger is what progressives like to spew when they are losing an arguement No, it's what we call hateful bigots who suggest that we shred our constitution by banning religions. Orion lost this one by being un-American. And yet NewGuy says it's the liberals who are the real fascists. Unreal.
  17. I agree with you. It's just that I get sick of being personally attacked by the same 5 stupid morons every time I post. So why be civil in return? Because you're trying to change minds. You're trying to demonstrate the validity of your hypothesis that Islam is dangerous and evil that we need to shred our constitution in order to stop it. But by being so ugly, and so personal, you've only proven that you are a rabid hate monger. Go back and re-read the exchange between you and me. Between us, it was you who started the insults, by saying "you are truly a fool". Anyone who cares to can go back and see that it was you who started the ugliness.
  18. Here, you pathetic, fat, lazy dhimmi...I'll repost my links for you. Good lord, do you ever get off your fat lazy ass or does momma still wipe it for you? World Net Daily.com Anti-CAIR Muslim Watcher Religion of Peace Jihad Watch Stop Islamization of America Islam Review Now stop making excuses and go get an education. Or are you so afraid of discovering I'm right that you prefer to remain an ignoramus? ` Hilarious. I ask you to source one statistic, and you give me links to a bunch of ultra conservative websites that have entries on things like why Glenn Beck is too liberal (!), and I'm supposed to dig through this horseshit, and figure out what the hell you are talking about? Too rich. Give me a link that actually mentions that stat, not a website, hatemonger.
  19. Orion, given your feelings on Islam, is Bush a traitor too, for his close ties to the Saudis?
  20. Which website? I don't have time to read the pages and pages of crap you cut and paste in here. Honestly, if you want to look less like a crazy person, shorter posts do help. No one really cares to read that much of your horseshit.
  21. It would be no surprise to you then, that you're about to be told your "attitude"....SUCKS? There was nothing illegal or immoral about it. All the proper precedures were taken before going in, so that puts a zip on that asinine horsesh@# of yours. How did he lie? The entire Clinton administration warned us of Saddams WMD's and now that troops were going to the Middle East for other reasons than more of Saddams sh@#, the President was suppose to just ignore all those warnings? Ol' dumbass Bush was suddenly suppose to know more about Saddam than what the previous administration told us about him? More than what our intelligence was telling us about him? More than what the UN inspectors were telling us about him? More than what even Saddam himself was telling us? You really live in fanatasyland don't you? The invasion was necessary, the aftermath was a waste of time, but the bleeding hearts dictated that little PR stunt. Thank God I live out here in the REAL world, with REAL MEN, because if all I had was the musings and spineless whimperings of the kind of pathetic bloviating you do around here, to judge things by, I'd think the entire world had finally been pussified beyond redemption. So how come you didn't serve, if war is what makes one a man? You must be a big ole puddy-tat. @loll@ Leave it to you to equate being a MAN to WAR! A lot of damn good men have never stepped foot on the battlefield. The character I'm referencing can't be found in a uniform or behind a gun. Those things can be acquired by the opposite sex if so desired. The quality and character of REAL men, that I'm pointing at and that you LACK, comes from their morals and principles. Not this passive, appeasing, irresponsible BS you subscribe to. You talk about morals and principals, but it's just talk. You're as much a chickenhawk as Dick Cheney. You didn't serve. If the invasion of Iraq was so right and so very very manly, then why didn't you join up and take part? Why didn't you serve? You lack the courage of your convictions, that's why. But I'm the passive one, huh?
  22. I addressed this with the issue of abrogation. Pay attention. As far as Spencer is concerned, you've shown me no proof that he is wrong about Islam. Are you also going to deny the 15,000+ terrorist killings committed by Islam in the last 9 years? How was that figure arrived at? If you want people to believe you, source your statistics. Otherwise, it's just something you pulled out of your ass.
  23. 2000 years, they been trying eh?? So why ain't we all speaking Farsi now?? Yeah, this infiltration is not going too well so far, it seems. Progress is slow. And if all Muslims are terror bombs waiting to explode, how come there haven't been more acts of terror on US soil? If these people are all sleeper cells, they seem to have overslept.
  24. Viper: tough with words, pu$$y when it comes to actions.
  25. It would be no surprise to you then, that you're about to be told your "attitude"....SUCKS? There was nothing illegal or immoral about it. All the proper precedures were taken before going in, so that puts a zip on that asinine horsesh@# of yours. How did he lie? The entire Clinton administration warned us of Saddams WMD's and now that troops were going to the Middle East for other reasons than more of Saddams sh@#, the President was suppose to just ignore all those warnings? Ol' dumbass Bush was suddenly suppose to know more about Saddam than what the previous administration told us about him? More than what our intelligence was telling us about him? More than what the UN inspectors were telling us about him? More than what even Saddam himself was telling us? You really live in fanatasyland don't you? The invasion was necessary, the aftermath was a waste of time, but the bleeding hearts dictated that little PR stunt. Thank God I live out here in the REAL world, with REAL MEN, because if all I had was the musings and spineless whimperings of the kind of pathetic bloviating you do around here, to judge things by, I'd think the entire world had finally been pussified beyond redemption. So how come you didn't serve, if war is what makes one a man? You must be a big ole puddy-tat.
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