gMAMON101

Is it losing ground, or it is redefining the moral structure?? Some of that lost moral ground wasn't forsaken because mores slackened, but because we, as a species have genuinely seen those mores to be outdated and unnecessary. Some of the arguments against here reside on presumptions that gay marriage will forever cause countless future generations of young people to forsake marriage altogether, or that living side-by-side with married gays will somehow bring forth countless other despicable perversions. I mean, back in the sixties, quite a few folks thought that if gays were allowed in society then we'd all be copulating with babies or some other sicko thing in no time. Poppycock. Didn't happen. Gay rights have been established in many western nations over the past 50 years, and the simple facts of it are that legalized gay citizens have NOT influenced social mores for the worst. If anything, gays choosing to uphold a family environment tend to have stronger family ties than a comparable heterosexual family. Clearly, what happens in people's bedrooms doesn't much affect the moral standards of the society around them. If anything the attrition of marriage as an social institution is affected far more by heterosexuals than gays. The divorce rates or cohabiting decisions many couples make have nothing to do with gay influence in society--zippo, zero.....and they have more to do with individual mores such as the value and purpose in one's life. That's not a moral assessment, its a life assessment. Let's face it, peeople used to think women were genuinely inferior being, and blacks as well. There was no problem seen with enslaving other people, and the practise was held to for centuries. Yea, for MOST of human history......we had zero moral problem with slavery. Obviously that is the case these days, morally speaking. Things clearly have changed. What is wrong about two people of the same sex marrying? The question needs to be answered with another question: what FILTER is being put in place here when answering? I think that if someone says "Because I think its wrong", they are misusing their self in the equation here. Perhaps a better question needs to be asked: "what harm does having same0sex marriages into society?" Well, the sensible answer is likely going to be none at all......even the most grudge opponent will probably not be able to find any concrete threat that gay marriages pose to society. So, I think it falls to another thing we simply need not like, that happens around us anyway but really doesn't bring us any harm. That is not a moral assault, its simply social progress. What are some of these examples of "social progress" you're referring to? If the U.S. is such a sh!tbag of a country to you, where exactly is the redeeming quality you wish to NOW espouse upon us as a nation? If we've "progressed" as you claim....then how? Seems to me that the world use to think a lot better of us Americans in our past and not so much in our present, so one would have to think all this "social progress" you elude to hasn't exactly been to our benefit worldwide? When America was all Baseball, Apple Pie and MOM (throw in John Wayne and the Wild West) we were better received and admired. Now that we're all PC, womens rights, less God fearing and all Will & Grace and Jerry Springer....we seem to be doing poorly in the popularity area? When America was baseball, Apple Pie and MOM, that was the time Japanese people were being put in training camps, black people where being separated by bird laws , Mexicans were giving low wages to work at farms and then kicked off the country once the job was done, and Indians were being run off to dry land. I remember we were super popular. Okay, so America has always sucked! How wonderful! @loll@ Funny how all these self-proclaimed open-minded people and preachers of all that's just, fair and righteous...are so full of hateful attitudes against such large groups of people? Conditional love and tolerance? So allowing gays to marry will be the final hurdle to jump before Americans can be popular......to.....? @hmmm@ I never said that. All I'm saying is that if people weren't so uptight maybe people would be happy. This country wasn't suppose to judge people, that is why puritans left British homeland, to practice what they believed, and not be judged by government or its people. People forget that.

Is it losing ground, or it is redefining the moral structure?? Some of that lost moral ground wasn't forsaken because mores slackened, but because we, as a species have genuinely seen those mores to be outdated and unnecessary. Some of the arguments against here reside on presumptions that gay marriage will forever cause countless future generations of young people to forsake marriage altogether, or that living side-by-side with married gays will somehow bring forth countless other despicable perversions. I mean, back in the sixties, quite a few folks thought that if gays were allowed in society then we'd all be copulating with babies or some other sicko thing in no time. Poppycock. Didn't happen. Gay rights have been established in many western nations over the past 50 years, and the simple facts of it are that legalized gay citizens have NOT influenced social mores for the worst. If anything, gays choosing to uphold a family environment tend to have stronger family ties than a comparable heterosexual family. Clearly, what happens in people's bedrooms doesn't much affect the moral standards of the society around them. If anything the attrition of marriage as an social institution is affected far more by heterosexuals than gays. The divorce rates or cohabiting decisions many couples make have nothing to do with gay influence in society--zippo, zero.....and they have more to do with individual mores such as the value and purpose in one's life. That's not a moral assessment, its a life assessment. Let's face it, peeople used to think women were genuinely inferior being, and blacks as well. There was no problem seen with enslaving other people, and the practise was held to for centuries. Yea, for MOST of human history......we had zero moral problem with slavery. Obviously that is the case these days, morally speaking. Things clearly have changed. What is wrong about two people of the same sex marrying? The question needs to be answered with another question: what FILTER is being put in place here when answering? I think that if someone says "Because I think its wrong", they are misusing their self in the equation here. Perhaps a better question needs to be asked: "what harm does having same0sex marriages into society?" Well, the sensible answer is likely going to be none at all......even the most grudge opponent will probably not be able to find any concrete threat that gay marriages pose to society. So, I think it falls to another thing we simply need not like, that happens around us anyway but really doesn't bring us any harm. That is not a moral assault, its simply social progress. What are some of these examples of "social progress" you're referring to? If the U.S. is such a sh!tbag of a country to you, where exactly is the redeeming quality you wish to NOW espouse upon us as a nation? If we've "progressed" as you claim....then how? Seems to me that the world use to think a lot better of us Americans in our past and not so much in our present, so one would have to think all this "social progress" you elude to hasn't exactly been to our benefit worldwide? When America was all Baseball, Apple Pie and MOM (throw in John Wayne and the Wild West) we were better received and admired. Now that we're all PC, womens rights, less God fearing and all Will & Grace and Jerry Springer....we seem to be doing poorly in the popularity area? When America was baseball, Apple Pie and MOM, that was the time Japanese people were being put in training camps, black people where being separated by bird laws , Mexicans were giving low wages to work at farms and then kicked off the country once the job was done, and Indians were being run off to dry land. I remember we were super popular.

No..it's a logical statement if we're discussing sexuality of humans and the many folds of it therein. The problem with it, is that some people don't want to hear it and automatically take offense to it as though the intent is to toss homosexuality into the same negative class as pedophilia or bestiality. How is it "dumb" when the various "behaviors" can include such preferences as...likes women, likes men, likes members of the same sex, likes sheep, likes toys, likes children, likes S&M, likes yadda yadda yadda and so on? I have tons of relationships with other men in my life, I just don't have SEXUAL relations with them. I have strong bonds and feelings for them also, I just don't have SEX with them. So what exactly stipulates a homosexual relationship from any other male to male relationship, but the sexual behavior that might transpire? Last time I checked, you couldn't marry a person of the same sex either, but that one's under much debate and happening across the country in small measurements already. What was considered unnatural yesterday is suddenly becoming "normal" today. However small the increments, we just keep losing ground on the moral structure that built this country and yet everyone sits around and wonders WHY we're going down the tubes and straight to hell? Homosexuality goes way back in history, Greeks practice bisexuality all the time. just because your dad thought you to hate gays, does it mean that it us unnatural. Even pets have gay sex, so stop making it seem like its a sin. If God gave us freewill, why can't it be applied here.

Wow, I'm sure people CHOOSE to be dis-owned/rejected by their parents I'm sure they CHOOSE to get beat up by homophobes. (sometimes even killed) I'm sure they CHOOSE not to adopt based on their sexual preference. And even if they choose to do so, i thought that was a right that our precious country had given us. I also forget that I was not approved to buy a house because I CHOOSE to play Xbox instead of Playstation. Silly me forgetting that pre-established criteria deems rejection because of choices and not monetary value or responsibility.

Hey, dumbass--don't you get it?? NO-ONE TRUSTS you to NOT make it personal--that's WHY you get the response you get. You can probably wait until Hell freezes over for someone else to take the first step, especially with the attitude you have. Given the things you have written, why the hell should anyone capitulate to you? Give people INCENTIVE to respect you.......be respectful in spite of whatever they say to you. Respect is EARNED, not given because its demanded. Its astonishing that you have not figured that out. You see.....calling me a dumbass just gets me fired up. Listen, you small group of people here on TNI don't have to like me, last time I checked Arrow many people don't like or respect you either. I have met some decent people here on TNI and we get along, I just don't in this small group of conservatives and you because if you can't help but bother me. Also I was asking for a reset for everyone not just myself but VH continued with his attacks and I got to him on purpose to prove a point, one that I stick by. As always you guys like giving him a pass because he says the thing you want to say (Arrow excluded) Quite frankly SP, though I don't even know your real name,I like you. I like the fact that you are as annoyed by Viper, as I am. And I like how your taking a stand against him. Because everyone just sits here and takes it. But not you buddy. We shouldn't be pushed by this guy. I don't like reading every post that is a hot topic related to how bad a group of people are. That why I posted this topic, a little taste of their own medicine. I know I can ignore it, but every time I glance at the bottom right corner of the screen I read: Obama is the devil, which offends me because I like the guy. So hes not doing everything he promised so what no one ever has. And he was put in a situation where the hole is so big you can't even dig down to get out. If you don't like your countries President get out! #US1#

The only threat they offer is they fire up conversatives with half truths and dark "revelations" that whither when the light of common sense shines. When that happens conservatives start attacking people, skirting the issue, or resorting to my favorite...pictures, which is what children do when then can't think of anything else to say.....waits for next clip art pic.... @firedevil@ Gets to ya, does it? BACK ON TOPIC... So besides the gang bangin' b!tches on the VIEW, busting up Beck about him misrepresenting the smallest of detail about a choice encounter with Barbra "WAHWAH", does anyone have anything of real substance to show that Beck lies and tells false stories about our Government? He does have that little Red phone on his show for the WH to call and CORRECT him on something he's said that isn't true, but nadda ring one or ring two has come in. @hmmm@ The man doesn't check his facts where would he get them? Apparently from the guy on the otherside of the red phone. He admitted he is no reporter, they give him a topic and he commentates it, just like most of the comments on the board , pure opinion with no substantial facts. You know kind like when Wheeljack brings up a topic and then you go off in your own little world about how bad liberals are.

Personal insult Flammer Troll No adding to the discussion @lol@ SP, Im sure this will be reported and deleted So that's it? Glenn Beck got caught misspeaking about who said "HI" to who first, and ALL the CONSERVATIVE world comes crumbling down? That's the best ya got? We could spend all day on this issue of catching people (of importance) at little white lies or misspeaking, and point out the ones that actual govern the country, but why bother? Glenn Beck seems to be more of a threat to you, than he is a GOD of wisdom to me, but that's the paranoia on the part of the Left and not an issue for the Right. You dont get the big picture. I trully can careless about the small argument issues, Im trying to bring up the point that you 'conservatives' claim that the left is evil and makes the right look bad in the media, and yet its the other side that tries to make conflict. I really don't view it exactly the same way, and that's all it ever is...me having a different outlook or pov on things. We all like to think OUR perspectives are accurate and right, but we'd be total morons to think that there's no gray area or room for alternative opinions. I've grown up watching the mainstream media, reading the mainstream magazines, watching the mainstream entertainment venues, having all that and Hollywood shoved down my throat, and never even knew what I was getting until the alternative came along, and I became more interested in politics. The voices like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck all appealed to me and I liked what I was hearing out of them. It reaffirmed that I wasn't losing my mind or a freak of society or something, because I was in so much opposition to what I thought all the country (per the Liberal media outlets) was telling me how I should think. Now that there's this option for me, people are crying about it and making it out to be the BASTARD of the PRESS! It's so hypocritical it's laughable if not not totally insane that people have the audacity to think FOX news is biased, when all the others are equally biased. I see FOX news have on opposing voices as often as they can (those that aren't in boycott of them per the WH) they love that lively debate and feel confident they can back up what they say with facts and not unchallenged horsesh@#, which cannot be said for most the others like MSNBC or NBC/CBS/ABC that mostly give us the one world view in circle jerk fashion, or they find the biggest dolt from the opposing side and let them say "duuuuuuuh" for 30 seconds. I look at it that for FOX news and people like Glenn Beck to be such a threat to the Left, they must be doing something right? If Fox and Beck had no audience, they'd be irrelevant and inconsequential. It's the fact that they DO have such a large audience of fans and like-minded people that the pukes on the Left think "oh sh@#...they're cramping our style and threatening our gig!" I wanted to agree and like this comment; untill it got to the last two paragraphs when all the hatred spewed again. "Hatred"? Really? Does everything you disagree with, or have an alternative opinion about, have to be dramatically equated to our HATE? All Fox had to do, is not carry the water for the Left like all the other media outlets do, and thus be charged as Right leaning and biased. It's like the difference between McDonald's and Burger King. You either like one over the other or you don't care and enjoy a little of both depending on the mood. Burgers, fries and soda's are pretty much burgers, fries and sodas so any major b!tching and whining about why one is better than the other is for d!ckheads and sh@#s & giggles only, but in the end, everyone has a choice and will go wherever the hell they want no matter what kind of crap somebody else says about the one they like better. I hear folks cry about FOX News tagline of being "FAIR and BALANCED" or "The SPIN stops HERE" or "WE REPORT YOU DECIDE!" oh the horrors of marketing advertisements and catchphrases. What company or business (and use the NEWS is big business) doesn't inflate their product and try to appeal to an audience, with bigger, more juicy hamburgers? Guy its more like Sonic and Burger King, where you have those Sonic commercials talking crap about other fast food chains, and Burger King not even notice them because they are so little compared to their Giant Corp. I want a whopper.

Personal insult Flammer Troll No adding to the discussion @lol@ SP, Im sure this will be reported and deleted So that's it? Glenn Beck got caught misspeaking about who said "HI" to who first, and ALL the CONSERVATIVE world comes crumbling down? That's the best ya got? We could spend all day on this issue of catching people (of importance) at little white lies or misspeaking, and point out the ones that actual govern the country, but why bother? Glenn Beck seems to be more of a threat to you, than he is a GOD of wisdom to me, but that's the paranoia on the part of the Left and not an issue for the Right. You dont get the big picture. I trully can careless about the small argument issues, Im trying to bring up the point that you 'conservatives' claim that the left is evil and makes the right look bad in the media, and yet its the other side that tries to make conflict. I really don't view it exactly the same way, and that's all it ever is...me having a different outlook or pov on things. We all like to think OUR perspectives are accurate and right, but we'd be total morons to think that there's no gray area or room for alternative opinions. I've grown up watching the mainstream media, reading the mainstream magazines, watching the mainstream entertainment venues, having all that and Hollywood shoved down my throat, and never even knew what I was getting until the alternative came along, and I became more interested in politics. The voices like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck all appealed to me and I liked what I was hearing out of them. It reaffirmed that I wasn't losing my mind or a freak of society or something, because I was in so much opposition to what I thought all the country (per the Liberal media outlets) was telling me how I should think. Now that there's this option for me, people are crying about it and making it out to be the BASTARD of the PRESS! It's so hypocritical it's laughable if not not totally insane that people have the audacity to think FOX news is biased, when all the others are equally biased. I see FOX news have on opposing voices as often as they can (those that aren't in boycott of them per the WH) they love that lively debate and feel confident they can back up what they say with facts and not unchallenged horsesh@#, which cannot be said for most the others like MSNBC or NBC/CBS/ABC that mostly give us the one world view in circle jerk fashion, or they find the biggest dolt from the opposing side and let them say "duuuuuuuh" for 30 seconds. I look at it that for FOX news and people like Glenn Beck to be such a threat to the Left, they must be doing something right? If Fox and Beck had no audience, they'd be irrelevant and inconsequential. It's the fact that they DO have such a large audience of fans and like-minded people that the pukes on the Left think "oh sh@#...they're cramping our style and threatening our gig!" I wanted to agree and like this comment; untill it got to the last two paragraphs when all the hatred spewed again. The only thing I do see, is all these other stations are trying to be equal and unbiased, and their ideals bleed through, Fox News Straight up goes and targets the Conservative audience for profit. Which to me makes look like Robber Barons, and that same audience either doesn't notice they are being used or they have that whole skimming for profit is American even though its on our own account. I sorta of question if Fox was Conservative since its conception. Can anyone enlighten us/me? Here is some info on Fox Founder Rupert Murdoch who has described himself as a Liberatarian. http://www.sourcewat..._Rupert_Murdoch I did read he was a Conservative and Libertarian since the beginning. Thanks.

Personal insult Flammer Troll No adding to the discussion @lol@ SP, Im sure this will be reported and deleted So that's it? Glenn Beck got caught misspeaking about who said "HI" to who first, and ALL the CONSERVATIVE world comes crumbling down? That's the best ya got? We could spend all day on this issue of catching people (of importance) at little white lies or misspeaking, and point out the ones that actual govern the country, but why bother? Glenn Beck seems to be more of a threat to you, than he is a GOD of wisdom to me, but that's the paranoia on the part of the Left and not an issue for the Right. You dont get the big picture. I trully can careless about the small argument issues, Im trying to bring up the point that you 'conservatives' claim that the left is evil and makes the right look bad in the media, and yet its the other side that tries to make conflict. I really don't view it exactly the same way, and that's all it ever is...me having a different outlook or pov on things. We all like to think OUR perspectives are accurate and right, but we'd be total morons to think that there's no gray area or room for alternative opinions. I've grown up watching the mainstream media, reading the mainstream magazines, watching the mainstream entertainment venues, having all that and Hollywood shoved down my throat, and never even knew what I was getting until the alternative came along, and I became more interested in politics. The voices like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck all appealed to me and I liked what I was hearing out of them. It reaffirmed that I wasn't losing my mind or a freak of society or something, because I was in so much opposition to what I thought all the country (per the Liberal media outlets) was telling me how I should think. Now that there's this option for me, people are crying about it and making it out to be the BASTARD of the PRESS! It's so hypocritical it's laughable if not not totally insane that people have the audacity to think FOX news is biased, when all the others are equally biased. I see FOX news have on opposing voices as often as they can (those that aren't in boycott of them per the WH) they love that lively debate and feel confident they can back up what they say with facts and not unchallenged horsesh@#, which cannot be said for most the others like MSNBC or NBC/CBS/ABC that mostly give us the one world view in circle jerk fashion, or they find the biggest dolt from the opposing side and let them say "duuuuuuuh" for 30 seconds. I look at it that for FOX news and people like Glenn Beck to be such a threat to the Left, they must be doing something right? If Fox and Beck had no audience, they'd be irrelevant and inconsequential. It's the fact that they DO have such a large audience of fans and like-minded people that the pukes on the Left think "oh sh@#...they're cramping our style and threatening our gig!" I wanted to agree and like this comment; untill it got to the last two paragraphs when all the hatred spewed again. The only thing I do see, is all these other stations are trying to be equal and unbiased, and their ideals bleed through, Fox News Straight up goes and targets the Conservative audience for profit. Which to me makes look like Robber Barons, and that same audience either doesn't notice they are being used or they have that whole skimming for profit is American even though its on our own account. I sorta of question if Fox was Conservative since its conception. Can anyone enlighten us/me?

Personal insult Flammer Troll No adding to the discussion @lol@ SP, Im sure this will be reported and deleted So that's it? Glenn Beck got caught misspeaking about who said "HI" to who first, and ALL the CONSERVATIVE world comes crumbling down? That's the best ya got? We could spend all day on this issue of catching people (of importance) at little white lies or misspeaking, and point out the ones that actual govern the country, but why bother? Glenn Beck seems to be more of a threat to you, than he is a GOD of wisdom to me, but that's the paranoia on the part of the Left and not an issue for the Right. You dont get the big picture. I trully can careless about the small argument issues, Im trying to bring up the point that you 'conservatives' claim that the left is evil and makes the right look bad in the media, and yet its the other side that tries to make conflict.

Personal insult Flammer Troll No adding to the discussion Sure it is. I'm just pointing out that this is OLD news. We had topics about it back when it was fresh and new and it was quite the unanimous decision that anybody that watches the view and thinks they're cutting edge and relevant to anything of importance...well, let's just say they're a wee bit light in the loafers. This is prime example of how the Left go after people and try to change the topic from more pressing and serious issues to asinine and ridiculous things like who said "HI" to who first, or why someone chose to capitalize the word BLACK or WHITE in a forum topic, you know, silly irrelevant stuff like that. Lol guy, come on it wasn't about who said hello first, Beck claimed that someone had reserved seats on a Public Train , and he wanted to turn it around and make it seem like Democrats were controlling the station. Later making fun and calling out Barbara (typical thing to do from this guy) to try to make a point on how rude democrats/liberals can be. When they asked him about why he would try to stir up his audience he couldn't answer. He could say that he talks #$## to get his ratings up.

Personal insult Flammer Troll No adding to the discussion @lol@ SP, Im sure this will be reported and deleted, due to its nature, but i will say this: I went on to see the second segment of the show and he just keeps contradicting himself even more. He gets caught in more lies,he doesn't answer the difficult questions,he can't even look at Barbara in the eyes, he goes on the offensive when asked about his crying; and uses Patriotism to get out of the situation. I can't believe these people who watch his show and use it as way of discussing real life problems, and informing themselves about the "truth". I've said it before and I will say it again I'm not even a liberal, but you conservatives really know how to stir up news and then back away from it, once it goes back to you.

Glenn Beck gets caught in a lie, and then says he is a commentator and not a REPORTER and then says he doesn't check any of his facts. Typical lying sack of Dog mess that these Conservatives listen to religiously.

I want to see Grizzly Momma win the preliminary, that way when Obama wins by default; Like Bush did when he ran against Kerry, there won't be any complaints from conservatives about cheating in votes.

and exactly what has Obama and all his worldy knowledge, masterful speaking/reading skills and pre-President experience in Chicago done for America? You people spedn more time whining about the VP that WASN'T, than you do praising the POTUS...that IS! I think we all know why that is to. Love how it always goes back to Obama, and then you state that SP doesn't stay on Topic. Anyways Palin is a ##$%$#, I love who your people on the other side of the left, think that she may be a tard, but she has a good heart so she qualifies for President. I'm sure you will vote for her though you see how dull she is, simply because your blinded by you political believes.

That is how it goes If you disagree with them you are a troll and offer nothing to the conversation. Even if you provide proof to what you are talking about two things will happen, they will pretend not to read it, then won't acknowledge it and hope it goes away, or they will undermine what you are saying by labeling you in some fashion, because instead of dealing with the truth they set up a stigma that you are looney and use that to invalidate your comments. Remember, they can call you any name and label you in any way but the moment you do it, you are a troll. Also its ok for them to be sarcastic, they will understand each other but if you are sarcastic towards them, then they won't understand and will again see you as a troll. Yes, you can have 20,000 plus posts but the troll is the guy with a couple hundred???? you see how i challenged a troll comment it turns out that i am being a troll. i guess no matter what i say i am a troll, well here is some boil boil toil and trouble with some stinky doo, they call me a troll no matter what i say or do. I'm noticing you can only troll if you use: @loll@#US1#@smilepunch@ @lol@ Like: Your a scumbag troll @bananna@ I guess the smiley fixes any wrong doing.

Wow I start a Topic that way people stop complaining about me being off topic and you mods erase it. No wonder your Republicans run the show anything else gets erased. TNI=Conservative Media please don't post if your views aren't ours.

Call your muscle.

Can we get a moderator in here please? This is the fifth irrelevant comment by this joker and he obviously has no intention of being part of the discussion. You are such a girl, I hope your mom is signing in as your user id, because you whine soo much, it would be pathetic if your male.

Beats being about me all the time. @loll@ I'm handing the torch to you "lover". I'm gonna go cash my check and pick up some Coors! @smilepunch@ Now, if we were going with true stereotypes, I can't think of anything better than Busch Light Draft. They even had a Nascar Series named after it for the longest time. And checks? This how we stereotypically get our money while drinking our Busch Light! You really shouldn't be putting pictures of your family, for safety reasons..

Hey I'm back from playing xbox, whats up?

That you're a scumbag troll. I still can't fathom why one guy gets all this attention. Last time I checked dissent was the highest form of patriotism. Or so I was told. In any event what does them having a hard time have to do with being good or bad Americans? There are others that have bashed a President in this forum. Will you be challenging their status as Americans as well? This topic isn't even about bashing the President. Did you even read it or are you just another lover scorned by VH? I don't need to be a moderator to point out a scumbag troll. Maybe it's time for you to post one of those "I'm bored and I'm gonna go play XBox" messages now. What are you eleven-> Scumbag Troll. You are soo aggressive I like that. I have some friends that would love to meet your acquaintance, I work as a teachers aide. By the way I use the butt jokes because I know how homophobic these pricks are.

Great. Another troll with nothing to contribute but "butt-buddy" jokes. And people wonder why WJ and VH dominate the politics board. They only "dominate" because they have nothing else to live for, I mean come on what else do old bitter men do once they receive their checks? And you waste time making unfunny comments and insulting people who are having a hard time right now. What does that say about you? I don't know what does it say? So they having a hard time, that means they can bash the president? Very American of them. By the way I don't see the green letters saying Moderator below your name.

Great. Another troll with nothing to contribute but "butt-buddy" jokes. And people wonder why WJ and VH dominate the politics board. They only "dominate" because they have nothing else to live for, I mean come on what else do old bitter men do once they receive their checks?

No, my opinions are still very moderate. If I was a far leftie, I'd say that we should be a communist country. But I don't want that, and I've never said anything to that effect. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me not a moderate. That's very funny coming from someone who loses their ever'loving friggin' MIND anytime they're disagreed with? I guess you have your set of rules of conduct and everybody else has another to abide by. Typical. This I actually agree with. Wheeljack hurts his credibilty, when he brings up his limited intake of news and information, and the fact that he doesn't vote (or until recently) and the fact that he doesn't read everything here, or watch the videos and check the links we all provide, and then wants to comment anyway. I think he bit a wee bit lazy in that regard, but since he's starting al lthe topics more often than others, I guess he must want to debate about it? It would help to come packing though......lots of info and sources that is. What happened you and your butt-buddy wheeljack broke up?