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48 minutes ago, Satam said:

Judaism is a religion, and no one is born into it, but due to centuries of diaspora and isolation, Jews have become a genetically identifiable semitic ethnicity tracing back to the Levant. So people are born Jewish, and then they choose to either follow Judaism, something else, or nothing.

no one is born a practicing member of an organized religious sect. no one has a passport with jewish citizenship. its a religion. there is no country on the map named Judaism, Jewish, or anything relating to the religion that can make someone have an ethnicity of jewish.

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34 minutes ago, memocromatico said:

Thank you for clarifying my point. This is exactly what I meant, I believe there is a difference between jew (of semite appearance), and jewish (follower of judaism). I may be wrong, but I don't think there is as much discrimination against jewish people as there is against semites, and that's where my point may have been lost.

There's been a ton of discrimination against Jewish people, which resulted in the diaspora and isolation I talked about, as well as the Holocaust.  Semantically, Jews can be both followers of Judaism or ethnic Jews. The waters are muddied somewhat, because, I believe aside from the Tutsis in Rwanda and a some other small groups whose names escape me right now, there aren't many ethnicities that are so closely tied to a religion. If it helps you to say "Jews" for the ethnicity and "Jewish" for the religion, go for it, but that's a gross oversimplification.

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30 minutes ago, memocromatico said:

Yes, I agree, as another has clarified already. I believe there is a difference between jew and jewish. A jew is a person of semite ethnicity, and a jewish is a follower of judaism. I may be wrong and that is why my point is not clear. But I'm glad you understood what I was trying to say.

there is no difference between jew and jewish. jew is short for jewish. a muslim from dubai is of semite ethnicity but if you call them a jew expect an angry response in return.

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21 minutes ago, DrLava said:

no one is born a practicing member of an organized religious sect. no one has a passport with jewish citizenship. its a religion. there is no country on the map named Judaism, Jewish, or anything relating to the religion that can make someone have an ethnicity of jewish.

You missed that whole middle part, didn't you? I'm not gonna re-explain it or go deeper into it because you didn't get what I said. Go read some books. Take a class. Or go ahead and google "Ashkenazi Jews" or "Sephardic Jews" and have yourself a deep dive. It could prove enlightening.

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28 minutes ago, Satam said:

You missed that whole middle part, didn't you? I'm not gonna re-explain it or go deeper into it because you didn't get what I said. Go read some books. Take a class. Or go ahead and google "Ashkenazi Jews" or "Sephardic Jews" and have yourself a deep dive. It could prove enlightening.

perhaps you need to retake the theology "class" you clearly failed. in every religion there are many, many, many various sects that branch off with their own teachings and have their own followers. just because youre descended from a man that followed the teachings of ashkenazi and spoke yiddish, does not make you born jewish. most likely, youre born at least part german or croatian, but not born jewish.

religion is a choice. it seems you missed the part where i said that in some countries and families it may seem like people are born into a religion, but no one is.

and just a tip for the future, youre not better than anyone else here, youre definitely not smarter than anyone else here, and youre clearly smaller than everyone else here. watch how you type boy. when you tell someone to "read some books" while you embarass yourself by claiming you can be a native jewish citizen, its beyond laughable. 

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19 minutes ago, DrLava said:

perhaps you need to retake the theology "class" you clearly failed. in every religion there are many, many, many various sects that branch off with their own teachings and have their own followers. just because youre descended from a man that followed the teachings of ashkenazi and spoke yiddish, does not make you born jewish. most likely, youre born at least part german or croatian, but not born jewish.

religion is a choice. it seems you missed the part where i said that in some countries and families it may seem like people are born into a religion, but no one is.

and just a tip for the future, youre not better than anyone else here, youre definitely not smarter than anyone else here, and youre clearly smaller than everyone else here. watch how you type boy. when you tell someone to "read some books" while you embarass yourself by claiming you can be a native jewish citizen, its beyond laughable. 

Don't put words in my mouth, don't call me "boy," and don't threaten me.

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26 minutes ago, Satam said:

Don't put words in my mouth and don't threaten me.

1st, you typed those words, i just quoted you. 2nd, where's the threat boy? i gave you a helpful tip cause you lack respect and think youre better than everyone else on this forum.

you are attempting to argue that judaism is a nationality. im guessing its cause of when your idol, donald trump, added the anti-semite law to a rights act. and because trump believes judaism is a nationality, you do to. again boy, keep amusing us and embarass yourself further by continuing this debate.

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20 minutes ago, DrLava said:

1st, you typed those words, i just quoted you. 2nd, where's the threat boy? i gave you a helpful tip cause you lack respect and think youre better than everyone else on this forum.

you are attempting to argue that judaism is a nationality. im guessing its cause of when your idol, donald trump, added the anti-semite law to a rights act. and because trump believes judaism is a nationality, you do to. again boy, keep amusing us and embarass yourself further by continuing this debate.

You think you're amused? This $#!+ right here is just plain funny. You could not be more wrong about anything--anything at all--that you've typed in the last hour or so. I'm not a Trump supporter, I never claimed "Jewish citizen" or "Native Jewish Citizen" was a thing, and I'm not the one confusing nationality with ethnicity. Just because it's the same thing in your head doesn't mean it is. And I take "you better watch what you type boy" as a threat.

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43 minutes ago, Satam said:

There's been a ton of discrimination against Jewish people, which resulted in the diaspora and isolation I talked about, as well as the Holocaust.  Semantically, Jews can be both followers of Judaism or ethnic Jews. The waters are muddied somewhat, because, I believe aside from the Tutsis in Rwanda and a some other small groups whose names escape me right now, there aren't many ethnicities that are so closely tied to a religion. If it helps you to say "Jews" for the ethnicity and "Jewish" for the religion, go for it, but that's a gross oversimplification.

We also have to take into account the other 11 tribes that were carted off into bondage in the OT.  Arguably there are more Hebrews than we know.  The "Jews" we know of today come from the tribe of Judah (Jew is essentially the first three words of Judah).. but even that is sketchy as many modern day Jews look more European that Middle Eastern/ Black/darker skinned. But its still a culture/religion that anyone can join.

So yes the waters are muddy.  Hebrew are a more defined group.  Jews are a much looser grouping that people consider a "race" but aren't.  They just hold distinct cultural practices based on their faith.  The closest counterparts would be Muslims (since they trace their origins from Ishmael while it's Isaac for Hebrews) but we don't look at Muslims as an ethnicity.

The difficult part is separating where their faith and their cultural practices begin and end 

 

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25 minutes ago, Satam said:

You think you're amused? This $#!+ right here is just plain funny. You could not be more wrong about anything--anything at all--that you've typed in the last hour or so. I'm not a Trump supporter, I never claimed to be Jewish, and I'm not the one confusing nationality with ethnicity. Just because it's the same thing in your head doesn't mean it is. And I take "you better watch what you type boy" as a threat.

whose making up stuff now boy? after you edit your posts too lol. cant edit it when its already been quoted by another user, we got the original.

i posted:

"watch how you type boy"

what you are making up or you have a reading comprehension issue or a disability perhaps?:

"you better watch what you type boy"

clearly 2 very different sentences.

and no one said you were jewish or claiming to be jewish. what was written:

"when you tell someone to "read some books" while you embarass yourself by claiming you can be a native jewish citizen"

what you apparently read:

"satam is jewish"

please read whats written and then reply to those words and only those words, dont reply to what you want others to say instead.

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18 minutes ago, DrLava said:

whose making up stuff now boy? after you edit your posts too lol. cant edit it when its already been quoted by another user, we got the original.

i posted:

"watch how you type boy"

what you are making up or you have a reading comprehension issue or a disability perhaps?:

"you better watch what you type boy"

clearly 2 very different sentences.

and no one said you were jewish or claiming to be jewish. what was written:

"when you tell someone to "read some books" while you embarass yourself by claiming you can be a native jewish citizen"

what you apparently read:

"satam is jewish"

please read whats written and then reply to those words and only those words, dont reply to what you want others to say instead.

I would ask you to do exactly the same thing. Please read what's written and then reply to those words and only those words, because you've missed a lot of it and seriously just flat out made up other parts. And I've at least had the courtesy to recognize that I misread a thing that you posted and edited my response in kind.

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26 minutes ago, Satam said:

I would ask you to do exactly the same thing. Please read what's written and then reply to those words and only those words, because you've missed a lot of it and seriously just flat out made up other parts. And I've at least had the courtesy to recognize that I misread one solitary thing that you posted and edited it.

i didnt misread anything. i get what youre trying to say, people claim to be of jewish ethnicity. you can claim to be anything you want, doesnt make it reality.

when you fill out a job application it asks for your ethnicity, its multiple choice. jewish isnt one of the choices. it is illegal to ask someone if they are jewish because its a religion not an ethnicity.

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33 minutes ago, Satam said:

Seriously, @DrLava, I invite you to go back and reread what I've written and what you've written. I've done the same just to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Because you sure did, buddy.

thats not my twitter handle, but ok. i didnt miss anything. yes there are people that can trace their heritage back to israel and beyond. but thats true of every person. if we go back far enough we are all from the same place. i understand exactly what you are trying to say, but wanting a religion to be considered an ethnicity doesnt make it true. if you consider jewish to be an ethnicity then muslim falls into the same boat. so does mormonism, and christianity, and hinduism, and every organized religion on the planet.

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10 minutes ago, DrLava said:

i didnt misread anything. i get what youre trying to say, people claim to be of jewish ethnicity. you can claim to be anything you want, doesnt make it reality.

when you fill out a job application it asks for your ethnicity, its multiple choice. jewish isnt one of the choices. it is illegal to ask someone if they are jewish because its a religion not an ethnicity.

You've been conflating religion, ethnicity, and nationality. You don't get why I'm saying at all. And you conveniently glossed over what I said about a "genetically identifiable ethnicity due to diaspora and isolation." There are studies. Lots of them. Some of them are kind of disturbing, but that part in quotes there is a scientifically provable fact. There are categories for Jewish ethnicities on 23 and Me, Ancestry D&A, etc. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the fact remains that there is a Jewish religion and there is a Jewish ethnicity (technically more than one). I've known Jewish atheists, which seems like an oxymoron to you, but it's not.
 

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11 minutes ago, Satam said:

You've been conflating religion, ethnicity, and nationality. You don't get why I'm saying at all. And you conveniently glossed over what I said about a "genetically identifiable ethnicity due to diaspora and isolation." There are studies. Lots of them. Some of them are kind of disturbing, but that part in quotes there is a scientifically provable fact. There are categories for Jewish ethnicities on 23 and Me, Ancestry D&A, etc. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the fact remains that there is a Jewish religion and there is a Jewish ethnicity (technically more than one). I've known Jewish atheists, which seems like an oxymoron to you, but it's not.
 

There is confusion between the culture and faith.

One cannot be a Jewish atheist...what they are doing is drawing connection to share cultural practices.

They aren't any genetics to it because you can't tell one from the other AND the Bible makes it clear that Semites (Hebrews) and Hamites fluidly intermingled. 

They are a group united by common cultural practices...but it isn't exclusive. And as Dr Lava stated...that isn't an option included on applications.

Like Gypsy

Or Muslim.  

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Satam said:

You've been conflating religion, ethnicity, and nationality. You don't get why I'm saying at all. And you conveniently glossed over what I said about a "genetically identifiable ethnicity due to diaspora and isolation." There are studies. Lots of them. Some of them are kind of disturbing, but that part in quotes there is a scientifically provable fact. There are categories for Jewish ethnicities on 23 and Me, Ancestry D&A, etc. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the fact remains that there is a Jewish religion and there is a Jewish ethnicity (technically more than one). I've known Jewish atheists, which seems like an oxymoron to you, but it's not.
 

i didnt gloss over anything, i didnt want to point out that you didnt understand your own copy/paste from google, but since you insist. diaspora refers to people who claim a homeland but live outside of it. with regards to jewish people that homeland is israel. that makes them israeli people that practice judaism. 

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18 hours ago, DrLava said:

i mean its really not that absurd or surprising. she made an anti-semitic comment, the guy that created the show is jewish, easiest way to get fired

It wasn't. Plain and simple 

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11 minutes ago, DrLava said:

i didnt gloss over anything, i didnt want to point out that didnt understand your copy/paste from google, but since you insist. diaspora refers to people who claim a homeland but live outside of it. with regards to jewish people that homeland is israel. that makes them israeli people that practice judaism. 

And let's not forget 11 tribes STOPPED being Hebrews and allowed themselves to be absorbed in the population.  They gave up their faith in Yahweh.  After 70 AD the tribe of Judah watched as Rome sacked Israel.  So their identity was formed around a culture...not a country.  And plus there are people from the tribe of Judah who are Christian.   

 

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10 minutes ago, FASVB said:

It wasn't. Plain and simple 

Sigh,

 

Comparing self inflicted oppression (as the dominate culture is prone to do) to historical/factual events of marginalized people is never smart.

Sadly privileged people keep doing it.  Then act shocked at the outrage of it.

And sideways people will always crawl out of the woodwork to defend it.

SMH do better dude. Plain and simple

This isn't a hill you want to die on.

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