The CW In Talks To Developing A Series Based On DC Character 'Naomi'

[Outsiders]

Ava DuVernay and former 'Arrow' writer and executive producer Jill Blankenship are working with The CW in developing a series based on the DC Comics character Naomi.  DuVernay and Blankenship are attached to write and executive produce the series.

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The series would follow a teen girl’s journey from her small northwestern town to the heights of the multiverse. When a supernatural event shakes her hometown to the core, Naomi sets out to uncover its origins, and what she discovers will challenge everything we believe about our heroes.  In the comics, Naomi had energy-based powers as well as an ability to transform into superpowered form that granted her incredible strength and other abilities.

The character debuted in her own standalone comic book series in 2019, which was co-written by Brian Michael Bendis and David F. Walker. It was illustrated by Jamal Campbell.

Source: Variety

[Jack655]

Don't really care much for the character but maybe the show will change that

[Goldbug]

DC seems very out of touch.

[kILLMonger]

17 hours ago, Goldbug said:

DC seems very out of touch.

Bruh it's 2020...Google is your friend. Naomi turned out to be a bit better book than anticipated so no surprise they want to see what they can do.    This could be a good little show...and honestly until DC gets it together and lets Milestone (especially Static) be what it should have been from jump, Naomi may be their best counter to Miles. 

Catch up dude, DC isn't out of touch....you are.

 

[Mangle77]

9 hours ago, kILLMonger said:

Bruh it's 2020...Google is your friend. Naomi turned out to be a bit better book than anticipated so no surprise they want to see what they can do.    This could be a good little show...and honestly until DC gets it together and lets Milestone (especially Static) be what it should have been from jump, Naomi may be their best counter to Miles. 

Catch up dude, DC isn't out of touch....you are.

 

The question is: how many seasons can they squeeze out of a character with less than a year of comics history? Netflix burned through Jessica Jones' ONE established story arc in Season 1, and she's been around almost 2 decades. Also, does Naomi even have a codename? 

[Satam]

This reminds me...is that New Gods movie Ava was supposed to be developing still happening or what?

[kILLMonger]

On 12/6/2020 at 3:36 AM, Mangle77 said:

The question is: how many seasons can they squeeze out of a character with less than a year of comics history? Netflix burned through Jessica Jones' ONE established story arc in Season 1, and she's been around almost 2 decades. Also, does Naomi even have a codename? 

Depends on how they want to do it.  They may take the JJ approach and then S2 can go just about anywhere as she comes into her own.  Best of all there can be no excuse of pandering or whatever BS salty fans cry about when things are done regarding comic characters of color.  

She doesn't have a cod name yet but I'm sure between the comics and show they will come up with a good one.  Her powerset and origins can make for some good possibilities.   

I'm just going to say: based on what I've seen here...it really seems folks just have a prob with things that feature/star characters who aren't white.  It's real disheartening because people will keep moving the goalposts.  Don't fall into that tripe.

[Mangle77]

As a man of multiple ethnic backgrounds and a TRUE superhero comics fan, I resent the Twitter/Facebook/mainstream media stereotypes of comics fans as "incels", "basement dwellers", etc. A person can dislike a show, movie, comicbook, or game that has a female/LGBTQ+/PoC main character/writer/director without being any kind of "-ist" or "-phobe". These are just excuses that untalented douches with the "right" political opinions use to justify substandard work.

I dream of a day when a superhero will again be judged not by the color of their skin, but by their quality as a character.

[kILLMonger]

On 12/11/2020 at 2:00 PM, Mangle77 said:

As a man of multiple ethnic backgrounds and a TRUE superhero comics fan, I resent the Twitter/Facebook/mainstream media stereotypes of comics fans as "incels", "basement dwellers", etc. A person can dislike a show, movie, comicbook, or game that has a female/LGBTQ+/PoC main character/writer/director without being any kind of "-ist" or "-phobe". These are just excuses that untalented douches with the "right" political opinions use to justify substandard work.

I dream of a day when a superhero will again be judged not by the color of their skin, but by their quality as a character.

As a Black person who has been a TRUE superhero fan regardless of the color of a character I liked, I resent the bitterness of people who have temper tantrums because companies realize more than one ethnicity/gender reads and enjoys comics and seeks to reach out.  Y'all get called those names because the pushback "you people" generally come with is mean spirited, toxic, tribal, and at times...bigoted.  

You entire rant highlights it.  Your dream is really a nightmare because y'all really just seem to want to make comics white again.  Go read back issues if the broader appeal brothers you that much.

I'll keep saying it: this is why we can't have nice things in the fandom.  It's 2020...catch up with decent humanity.

 

[Mangle77]

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Your dream is really a nightmare because y'all really just seem to want to make comics white again.

I want superheroes everyone can identify with. But I also want characters to be who they've always been. You say there aren't enough _________  superheroes? OK. Make new ones. But make NEW superheroes, not replacement superheroes. There's a right way to do these things. John Stewart? Right way. CW's version of the Guardian? Not so much. James Rhodes/War Machine? Right way. Riri Williams/Iron Heart? Started bad, got better.

[kILLMonger]

12 hours ago, Mangle77 said:

I want superheroes everyone can identify with. But I also want characters to be who they've always been. You say there aren't enough _________  superheroes? OK. Make new ones. But make NEW superheroes, not replacement superheroes. There's a right way to do these things. John Stewart? Right way. CW's version of the Guardian? Not so much. James Rhodes/War Machine? Right way. Riri Williams/Iron Heart? Started bad, got better.

So "everyone" can't identify with Naomi?  Because she's female?  Or because she's Black?  

Then how can you identify with Superman? He's an alien are you?  Batman is rich; can you identify with him if you are a blue collar dude? Are you a super soldier like Captain America? Are you Asgardian? A mutant? Bitten by a radioactive spider?  OR do you identify with these because they are white? 

Groans.....

See that's the moving goal post argument that is self defeating.  Naomi IS a new character...she's not replacing anyone...and people are crying foul.  DC/Marvel "replaces" a hero (see the Future Slate Batman for example) and people scream pandering/SJW. etc and they demand the creation of new heroes.  DC/Marvel makes a new character(like Naomi) ...and people scream pandering/SJW, etc and rattles off a list of POC heroes introduced in a way that some fans (mostly white) felt was "right." 

  My statement stands.

Salty people don't get to determine the "right way" to do things...because the right way usually entails "it will never happen."  POC in comics are generally dismissed whether they are brand new or replacing someone.

Guardian is Black in the comics BTW...thank Grant Morrison for that one...so it is comic accurate.  Since Seven Soldiers of Victory...Guardian has typically been depicted as Black.

Give the book a chance...give it a read.  BMB wrote it so it has his typical uber wordy dialogue, but the art is spectacular.  The story (once you get into it) is actually a good little premise.  You don't like it after you read it...I'll give respect that. But don't come here trying to dismiss the show with the argument you just presented.  That's not a good position to take.

[Mangle77]

Bruh. I'm not mad about this show. If they can make it a success, more power to them. BUT, if it fails, I don't want to see ANYONE make the claim that it failed because "Toxic Males", "_____ists",  or "_______phobes". If it fails, it will probably be because it's not very good, or because NOBODY outside the ever-dwindling number of people who actually buy American comicbooks has ever heard of her. DC has SO many characters that they could develop shows or movies around, it seems weird that they chose a character with so little history. They'd be better off giving Martian Manhunter a spinoff.

Guardian was never Jimmy Olson before, and Jimmy Olson was never black before. And I generally have a hard time considering anything Grant Morrison writes as canon, because he doesn't consider anything he DIDN'T write to be canon.(I did like his Justice League run, though.) 

The "right way" to introduce a new character taking up the mantle of an established one is to build up to it a little. This is something DC is used to be better at than Marvel: Legacies. Mentorships. Passing the torch. 

Another thing that writers don't do with new heroes is have them struggle with trying to fill someone else's boots. Even if they're literally a clone of the original hero, they should still go through a period of wondering if they measure up. Too many "new" heroes step into someone else's legacy and are immediately treated like they're better than the original. 

Kathleen Kennedy claimed it was hard to write Star Wars because "there isn't much source material". That was an outright lie, but it's true for Naomi. I'd never heard of her before this article. I'll see if I can find her trade paperback at the library. Money's tight, and comicbooks don't have good resale value anymore.

[kILLMonger]

9 hours ago, Mangle77 said:

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Bruh. I'm not mad about this show. If they can make it a success, more power to them. BUT, if it fails, I don't want to see ANYONE make the claim that it failed because "Toxic Males", "_____ists",  or "_______phobes". If it fails, it will probably be because it's not very good, or because NOBODY outside the ever-dwindling number of people who actually buy American comicbooks has ever heard of her. DC has SO many characters that they could develop shows or movies around, it seems weird that they chose a character with so little history. They'd be better off giving Martian Manhunter a spinoff.

If it fails...people WILL claim it is because incels killed it.  And they would be valid in that position.  Toxic fandom made (well helped) the sequel trilogy the hot garbage fire it was, it made the better than it got credit for Solo movie fail, and ensured we don't get SW films yearly (thanks guys).  Toxic fans have become emboldened and outspoken (don't believe me...look at some of the threads here) in their jihad to essentially make the fandom white again.  DC developed a Black Lighting show...it ran for a few seasons and was pretty good for what it was.  Black Lighting has history. Did you watch it? Lots of fans didn't...you know why? Because it was perceived as a "Black show" about "Black issues" and was "to preachy and pushing a SJW agenda."  Moving the goal post again

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Guardian was never Jimmy Olson before, and Jimmy Olson was never black before. And I generally have a hard time considering anything Grant Morrison writes as canon, because he doesn't consider anything he DIDN'T write to be canon.(I did like his Justice League run, though.) 

Guardian was Black though...Supergirl just got cute with it and meshed them together...so what?  It really doesn't matter what you consider canon...DC does (although canon is based on what reboot DC is on...Dark Knights just made everything canon soooooo) and since SSoV Guardian has been Black.  Moving on.

 

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The "right way" to introduce a new character taking up the mantle of an established one is to build up to it a little. This is something DC is used to be better at than Marvel: Legacies. Mentorships. Passing the torch. 

The only way that works is if the person replacing the hero is a white male.  No one had any heartburn with Dick Grayson taking the cowl...yet there are some butthurt people  up in arms about the Future Slate Batman being a Black dude.  You're moving the goalposts dude and negating your first premise. Bottom line: if a POC or a female (established or not...see Sam Wilson and Jane Foster) takes the mantle, certain sects of fandom scream pandering, tokenism, SJW, and "we're being replaced."  There is no "right way" with some folks, because they just don't want it.  Period.

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Another thing that writers don't do with new heroes is have them struggle with trying to fill someone else's boots. Even if they're literally a clone of the original hero, they should still go through a period of wondering if they measure up. Too many "new" heroes step into someone else's legacy and are immediately treated like they're better than the original. 

You haven't even read Naomi so that comes across very uninformed.  Are you asserting new POC/female characters just get handed stuff and only white male characters suffer?  Miles struggled, RiRi struggled, Jane Foster struggled. Al Simmons could write 20 books on it. Bruh stop.  

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Kathleen Kennedy claimed it was hard to write Star Wars because "there isn't much source material". That was an outright lie, but it's true for Naomi. I'd never heard of her before this article. I'll see if I can find her trade paperback at the library. Money's tight, and comicbooks don't have good resale value anymore.

Your lack of knowledge on Naomi's is no ones fault  but yours.  Her book was at your LCS, it was written about in Newsarama, it got pretty good reviews, It was in the DC Direct mag that was frickin free if you bought a DC book.  That's how I heard about it and based on the art I checked it out.  And the book was better than I thought.  Again you should read it, Amazon has it for 11.95, Kindle it for cheaper.  The SW reference doesn't make sense in this context.  BMB gave readers a pretty good story of Naomi, it stands well if this was just a one off mini and also works as a springboard for more.  Hell some comic book movies/shows have been made using about the same or less (RIPD, Happy for example).

If I wanted, I could say your reservations seem rooted in some of those toxic fandom arguments that warrant people getting called names.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask that you really think about what you're saying and where it is coming from.  Whether you are aware of it or not...much of your positions on this puts you in a camp I really hope you don't want to be a part of.

 

[JayC]

1 hour ago, kILLMonger said:

If it fails...people WILL claim it is because incels killed it.  And they would be valid in that position.  Toxic fandom made (well helped) the sequel trilogy the hot garbage fire it was, it made the better than it got credit for Solo movie fail, and ensured we don't get SW films yearly (thanks guys). 

I gotta disagree. Yes there is def an element of toxic fandom out there but I don't believe thats why movies like the sequels failed. That is basically saying people can't think for themselves and because some people screamed loudly everyone listened. I think people and the media give to much credit to toxic people. The media does it because it makes for engaging news that gets them clicks and views.

I think people can actually think for themselves and sometimes a movie doesnt do well simply because it wasn't good. For anyone who didnt see Star Wars because they choose to make a female a lead character I guarantee there were those who went to see it because it did have a female as a lead character.

Solo was a decent movie but I think Disney's track record on SW is why people didnt give it the chance, that and many just had a hard time watching anyone but Harrison Ford play Han Solo.

There will always be toxic people out there and the internet provides voices to everyone including the toxic people, thats not going to change. That doesn't mean we should empower those toxic people by giving them so much attention. Just like I mentioned above, if someone has an opinion you dont like, you don't actually have to waste time and energy engaging that person. In fact the worse thing you can do to someone who is deliberately trying to be toxic is ignore them. Its generally attention even if its negative attention they crave. Your certainly not going to change their mind or some how change how they are. Its one thing to post a counter point and move on, but its another when you go back and fourth rehashing the same things over and over.

[Mangle77]

16 hours ago, kILLMonger said:

Your lack of knowledge on Naomi's is no ones fault  but yours. 

Like I said before, money's tight. I have haven't been buying monthly comics for the past few years, because I've been broke. Like, I almost died of pneumonia from sleeping in a tent at a homeless shelter last year, broke. Even when I did have money for comics, I probably wouldn't have picked up a book that just had someone's first name as the title. That just wouldn't grab my attention. Add BMB's name on the cover, and I REALLY wouldn't waste money on it. The best Bendis story I've read was when Squirrel Girl babysat for Luke and Jessica; perfect use of Doreen's talents. I don't mean that as a knock against Squirrel Girl, but they got carried away with her after that.

16 hours ago, kILLMonger said:

Miles struggled, RiRi struggled, Jane Foster struggled.

Miles, yes. RiRi STOLE her first suit. Titania threw her fight against Jane because "women gotta stick together". (Titania's villainous career is built on 2 things: her relationship with Absorbing Man, and her jealousy towards She-Hulk.)  

16 hours ago, kILLMonger said:

Guardian was Black though

Which Guardian, though? Not the one Jack the King" Kirby created. But I can let that one go; they never really did right by Roy Harper in my opinion, and couldn't explore his relationship to Jim Harper correctly because of the multiverse thing, anyway.

16 hours ago, kILLMonger said:

Black Lighting has history. Did you watch it? Lots of fans didn't...you know why? Because it was perceived as a "Black show" about "Black issues" and was "to preachy and pushing a SJW agenda."  Moving the goal post again

I did watch Black Lightning, and for the most part, I liked it. It DID get preachy at times, but I was OK with it. I REALLY didn't like what they did with Looker, and I would have preferred if Grace had been a Bana-Mighdall (Amazon) like in the comics. Again, multiverse shenanigans & DC/WB's weird internal rivalries. I'd LOVE to see a live action version of the Outsiders, but that's...unlikely. It saddens me that DC has technically had the rights to ALL of their characters at the same studio, but hasn't been able to get their act together to create a single, cohesive, shared universe. 

So far. 

[kILLMonger]

On 12/17/2020 at 10:19 AM, JayC said:

 

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I gotta disagree. Yes there is def an element of toxic fandom out there but I don't believe thats why movies like the sequels failed. That is basically saying people can't think for themselves and because some people screamed loudly everyone listened. I think people and the media give to much credit to toxic people. The media does it because it makes for engaging news that gets them clicks and views.

I did note that was PART of why the ST sucked (aside from no plan, letting Abrams do the first one, letting Johnson go the opposite direction, bringing Abrams back). But toxic fandom really kicked into high gear after the horrible TLJ.  It was already swirling with what Marvel/DC was doing and the two storms combined into one hateful gestalt.   Toxic fan reaction to Rose, Rey, and Finn push a abysmal "course correction." While every not fan acted horrible...enough did that it was unpalatable and stomach churning.  Even ONE is one too many for that garbage and it was far higher than that. But each their own on it....

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I think people can actually think for themselves and sometimes a movie doesnt do well simply because it wasn't good. For anyone who didnt see Star Wars because they choose to make a female a lead character I guarantee there were those who went to see it because it did have a female as a lead character.

It wasn't good...at all.  I can agree with every fan that dislikes the film. What I can't/won't agree with is when people used bigoted rationales to "justify" their hate, play victim, scream they are being replaced, and prance around with disturbing positions in a attempt to go backwards based on skin color/gender.  Especially in a fandom that has aliens, mutants, heroes, etc. I high five anyone that says TLJ kicked crap over where we as a fandom expected/wanted Luke to be at that point in his life....especially after the EU showed us better/different.  On the other spectrum...if people start talking SJW/pandering/etc...I might have some pushback on that.

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Solo was a decent movie but I think Disney's track record on SW is why people didnt give it the chance, that and many just had a hard time watching anyone but Harrison Ford play Han Solo.

Solo was a pretty dang good movie.  Some people made that movie pay for the "injustices" that came from TLJ.  And Lando being retconned as "pansexual"...especially in light of the perceived pandering invasion didn't help.

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There will always be toxic people out there and the internet provides voices to everyone including the toxic people, thats not going to change. That doesn't mean we should empower those toxic people by giving them so much attention. Just like I mentioned above, if someone has an opinion you dont like, you don't actually have to waste time and energy engaging that person. In fact the worse thing you can do to someone who is deliberately trying to be toxic is ignore them. Its generally attention even if its negative attention they crave. Your certainly not going to change their mind or some how change how they are. Its one thing to post a counter point and move on, but its another when you go back and fourth rehashing the same things over and over.

I'm going to try to say this as respectfully as I can...the position of "they'll always be out there" only works for people who aren't targets of it.  It's easy to take that position if it's not directed at you.  We empower them by letting them air their horrible opinions and acting like it's just as valid as decent discourse.  It's not...period. It's not cool, it's not trendy...it's horrible and should have no place in the fandom.  But if it does (free speech and everything) then people who speak sideways shouldn't then clutch their pearls when someone claps back at them.  Your board your rules...just understand that part of where we are today isn't just because those kinds of people say whatever they say.  It's because people let them say it.  They didn't call them out.  They ignored it because it wasn't directed at them.  Hell maybe they agreed. So those people got emboldened.  What was a whisper became a shout.  It's here on TNI (I can say names)...and no one said anything.   We know it's out there.  This place should be better.  Opinions are one thing.  Don't like/know Naomi? Ok cool we can hash that out.  But when folks start that "create new Black characters stop replacing ours/ use existing Black characters not make new ones" tripe...that the kind of talk toxic people use to peddle their bs agenda.  I get that a person (here) saying these thing may not make not be truly toxic...but they have no qualms vocalizing toxic mentalities.  So if   toxic people hear you speaking and think you are one of them...what does that make you?

[kILLMonger]

8 hours ago, Mangle77 said:

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Like I said before, money's tight. I have haven't been buying monthly comics for the past few years, because I've been broke. Like, I almost died of pneumonia from sleeping in a tent at a homeless shelter last year, broke. Even when I did have money for comics, I probably wouldn't have picked up a book that just had someone's first name as the title. That just wouldn't grab my attention. Add BMB's name on the cover, and I REALLY wouldn't waste money on it. The best Bendis story I've read was when Squirrel Girl babysat for Luke and Jessica; perfect use of Doreen's talents. I don't mean that as a knock against Squirrel Girl, but they got carried away with her after that.

Had you led with that...the course would have been different...but you didn't.  You broke out a toxic retort to justify your position.  Just saying.  

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Miles, yes. RiRi STOLE her first suit. Titania threw her fight against Jane because "women gotta stick together". (Titania's villainous career is built on 2 things: her relationship with Absorbing Man, and her jealousy towards She-Hulk.)  

RiRi lost her frickin dad and a friend of hers.  She's smart as hell and constantly has to work to be seen as smart and not just a Black chick/person.  If you don't have a context on that...stop now.  Titania "threw the fight"....bruh the villian win rate for any superhero is ABYSMAL. RiRi wins and the villain lets her but when Spider Man beats the GG because he's gloating that's a hard won v?  Stop it dude lol...if we are being consistent, every supervillian throws fights by gloating, tying up the hero, delaying the win, etc. It's not cool to act like POC heroes have stuff handed to them. They work just as hard (honestly harder if we are being honest) because they have to get the "approval" of not just the comic world...but readers on the outside.

 

 

 

[JayC]

I don't think anyone knows whether this show will be good or not. For me personally, I've never heard of the character before, now granted I dont read many modern comics due to high prices mostly, so from a comic book stand point there is nothing there to prompt me to want to watch it. That doesn't mean it will be bad, it just means there is no strong pull at this time for me to be interested in it. If once it airs and I start hearing good things about it, not cause its based on a comic character but because its a well made show then I might start checking it out.

[JayC]

Since a number of you have demonstrated not being able to discuss this topic without getting off track and attacking one another and calling each other names  I suggest you move on since it seems to be one your not able to discuss in a civil manner. However if you do decide to post again and you try taking it off topic or attack someone your going to be gone.  Consider this the only warning.

[mako]

As I said before, I've never heard of the character, but I hope the show does well. The CW needs a few more good shows.

On the down-side, I've grown to really hate these multiverse story-lines. It's just gotten a bit overdone.

[kILLMonger]

Naomi in the main DC Universe (whatever that is after Metal) bruh.  You not really hating on the fact that now there are more POC characters taking mantles in the multiverse are you?

Multiverse??  Man you looking at it wrong.

Black Superman and a Black Batman makes the Multiverse a win for me.  And it also gives other people  their beloved white characters as well.  You get Kal-El and I get Calvin Ellis. You get Bruce and I get Tim Fox. That sounds like a win-win to me. DC trying to keep y'all happy AND usher in more diversity.  They came up with a pretty good way to do it.  Don't be stingy.

As I've said before...people can't have it both ways.  Folks is screaming "create new POC characters/shows" one day when they feel they beloved white characters get changed "for diversity's sake" and now acting like they don't know (and even more comically can't utilize a search engine to find out...like there's a frickin DC wiki page).

On justice:

She's a "new" character which is what y'all say y'all wanted Tuesday...then come Wednesday y'all will act brand new and be skeptical because "they are new" and you'd rather see a show with John Stewart or some established POC character with history."  On Thursday y'all will be mad your "favorite" white character isn't the focus because they used the POC character with history and y'all will say "make new characters" and the cycle repeats.   

Naomi could do well as a show...it's got some good stuff going for it.  What will kill it, it apathy and moving goalpost fans. I'm not mad if someone goes "who is this?"  We can talk...especially if someone wants to take the time of finding out who she is before dismissing her.

 

[mako]

I could be wrong, but that synopsis makes me think they may have a Buffy riff in mind. Gotta say I wouldn't mind that at all. As much as I love a good superhero show, I had forgotten how much I missed those old teen/fantasy adventure shows like Buffy, Roswell, Kyle X-Y, etc.

Might even make a nice block with Stargirl.

[Outsiders]

When I get 4 reports in 1 day about a topic with members complaining about other members being insulting and using racist language then it's just getting locked.

 

Look... We got enough crap going on around the world.  Let's try and be civil and a little mature when it comes to making posts.  If you can't handle it, then leave...

[Outsiders]

The CW has pilot orders to three projects: Ava DuVernay’s superhero drama Naomi, the live-action reboot of The Powerpuff Girls and a millennial nun dramedy exec produced by Jennie Snyder Urman.

The network has also ordered a reboot of classic sci-fi drama The 4400 straight-to-series.

Source: Deadline