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So what did you think of The Dark Knight Rises?

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after 3 movies he should be the batman to me. i mean batcave, batmobil, batwing and not just prototypes of awesome vehicules. to me after what happend with joker, bruce should have pushed himself even further but he lets everything go for 8 years and thats it. it still feels like he is in his first years to me. it was great in begins but now?? i dont wanna bash the movie and thats why i have two opinions on movies like this. the movie itself is good but as a batman fan its bad to me. nothing against nolan either because i have most of his movies at home. i started with dc comics when dick took over the mantle of batman. since then i got every batman comic form detective to dark knight and so on. i always knew batman from years back and the character nolan shows isnt how he is in the comics. i have nothing against change but the characters shouldnt be touched at all. switch stories, make it a twist ok but dont change the essence of the characters. thats what nolan and goyer did and to me thats lame.

 

no offense to anyone who likes it :-D

 

 

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A response to a couple of those criticisms:

 

yeah sorry but to me bruce wayne is kind of lame here. he takes 8 years off because of a harveydent law?? sure he has rachel on his mind well crime hasnt stopped since then.

 

also he tried 3 times before he made that jump. he should have done it the first time around to show he is something different.

 

when he came back to fight bane for the second time, he didnt learn anything new. so why did he beat him this time and not the first time around??

 

bruce to me is clever and he doesnt leaves things like the thumbler around in office buildings.

 

then this whole robin thing was a huge bummer because dicks story is so great to me that i dont see the need of this.

 

bane is just a bodyguard who does things for talia. so he isnt the criminal mastermind. he is just a pawn who fell in love.

 

 

According to the movie, crime pretty much DID stop because of the Dent law. So Bruce felt Batman wasn't needed (not to mention everyone hated him at the time)

 

I like my heroes to struggle. Whether it's when fighting the villain or in situations like the cave. It shows they're not invincible. Not Superman.

 

You could say that Bruce took on too much too soon after coming out of retirement. The first time he went out, he was a bit head strong. In the pit, he spent time conditioning, he knew more about what he was up against.

 

Technically it was Fox that did that. He did mention he was consolidating all the hardware, probably not a good move in retrospect…

 

The whole thing with Robin was done as a nod to the IDEA that Batman has a crime fighting partner. It’s as much a part of the mythos as the Joker or the bat cave. The Blake character was smart, capable, someone Batman/Bruce confided in and fought side by side with, all the things Robin should be. It also spoke to the idea of others being inspired by Batman and taking up his cause, a notion that ran throughout the three movies. I love the Dick Grayson origin too, hopefully we’ll get it in a movie someday. For the purposes of THIS film (and keeping in mind this is likely the last time we will see this incarnation of Robin OR Batman), WHICH Robin it was wasn’t as important as the idea that there IS a Robin.

 

I did not see Bane as JUST a bodyguard. He was years ago when Talia was young, but he was the one who carried out all the chaos in the movie. There just happened to be a connection there with Talia. I also believe a more classic character like Riddler or Penguin wouldn’t have suited the scope of the plot, plunging the city into martial law. They’re good characters but it wouldn’t’ have worked.

 

Also, in defense of the ending: How many times has a Batman story ended with Batman standing triumphantly on the top of a roof, his cape blowing in the wind, or Batman swinging off into the night, ready for the next fight? There’s nothing WRONG with those endings, but we’ve seen them before. Countless times. We’ve never seen this one. Yep, Bruce DID “ride off into the sunset”, he ended up happy. The fight with Alfred people didn’t seem to like, that ended OK, too. At the same time, with Robin in the cave, you’re wondering “what’s going to happen next?” Personally, I loved that.

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A response to a couple of those criticisms:

 

yeah sorry but to me bruce wayne is kind of lame here. he takes 8 years off because of a harveydent law?? sure he has rachel on his mind well crime hasnt stopped since then.

 

also he tried 3 times before he made that jump. he should have done it the first time around to show he is something different.

 

when he came back to fight bane for the second time, he didnt learn anything new. so why did he beat him this time and not the first time around??

 

bruce to me is clever and he doesnt leaves things like the thumbler around in office buildings.

 

then this whole robin thing was a huge bummer because dicks story is so great to me that i dont see the need of this.

 

bane is just a bodyguard who does things for talia. so he isnt the criminal mastermind. he is just a pawn who fell in love.

 

 

According to the movie, crime pretty much DID stop because of the Dent law. So Bruce felt Batman wasn't needed (not to mention everyone hated him at the time)

 

I like my heroes to struggle. Whether it's when fighting the villain or in situations like the cave. It shows they're not invincible. Not Superman.

 

You could say that Bruce took on too much too soon after coming out of retirement. The first time he went out, he was a bit head strong. In the pit, he spent time conditioning, he knew more about what he was up against.

 

Technically it was Fox that did that. He did mention he was consolidating all the hardware, probably not a good move in retrospect…

 

The whole thing with Robin was done as a nod to the IDEA that Batman has a crime fighting partner. It's as much a part of the mythos as the Joker or the bat cave. The Blake character was smart, capable, someone Batman/Bruce confided in and fought side by side with, all the things Robin should be. It also spoke to the idea of others being inspired by Batman and taking up his cause, a notion that ran throughout the three movies. I love the Dick Grayson origin too, hopefully we'll get it in a movie someday. For the purposes of THIS film (and keeping in mind this is likely the last time we will see this incarnation of Robin OR Batman), WHICH Robin it was wasn't as important as the idea that there IS a Robin.

 

I did not see Bane as JUST a bodyguard. He was years ago when Talia was young, but he was the one who carried out all the chaos in the movie. There just happened to be a connection there with Talia. I also believe a more classic character like Riddler or Penguin wouldn't have suited the scope of the plot, plunging the city into martial law. They're good characters but it wouldn't' have worked.

 

Also, in defense of the ending: How many times has a Batman story ended with Batman standing triumphantly on the top of a roof, his cape blowing in the wind, or Batman swinging off into the night, ready for the next fight? There's nothing WRONG with those endings, but we've seen them before. Countless times. We've never seen this one. Yep, Bruce DID "ride off into the sunset", he ended up happy. The fight with Alfred people didn't seem to like, that ended OK, too. At the same time, with Robin in the cave, you're wondering "what's going to happen next?" Personally, I loved that.

 

 

i guess in the end its just a matter of how we see things. i love your aspect of it. lets continue to talk about it. to me bane protected a child in prison. he had his heart at the right place so why would he burn gotham if not by the orders of talia to maintain her fathers wish? as for the dent law thats why i miss the detective in batman. crime never sleeps and batman should have seen that something is coming by investigate these things. in the first movie he wanted to give people hope and here he just seems to think of himself. crime never sleeps. in the comics he is always the guy who goes further but here he just let go. i also love when heroes have to struggle before they achieve their goal but sometimes you have to show something special so that i can say yes he is the one who can pull it off and lets not forget he is the batman so climbing walls, jumping on rooftops is kind of his speciality. thats why i hoped for him to show that he is better. sometimes i believe the end was just a dream of alfred because thats what he wanted. i see the crimefighting help in robin but to me bruce was alone so long and dick is the one who opens him up a little and i didnt saw that connection. the father/son thing. to me that kid made bruce what he is and because of it he didnt got lost to the batman characte. i always love when villains have their own armada of toys thats why i hate the idea of them having thumblers. to me its not special anymore when everyone has the same thing. an open ending is ok in my book but a nuclear bomb? what about the side effects? gotham wasnt that far away.

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I wished I liked the movie more than I did. The movie was okay to me overall, but I was somewhat let down.

 

Pro:

  • I like the idea of Blake being the new Batman. Since he comes from a police background, he could be more of a detective-style Batman if they made more movies
  • Ra's Al Ghul cameo by Liam Neeson was pretty cool
  • Scarecrow cameo was pretty cool too - I would be down with him antagonizing the new Batman in future movies
  • I liked Bane's characterization overall (minus the Talia reveal)
  • I actually like Bruce Wayne retiring - I think it's realistic of years of crimefighting takes a toll on the body (think professional athletes)

 

Con:

  • I didn't like Bane's voice - I kept thinking it was a cheesy Sean Connery impersonation for some reason
  • Not even a mention of the Joker anywhere in the movie, espcially he was the one ultimately responsible for screwing up Bruce Wayne's life
  • Talia's reveal could have been done better so that Bane's character wouldn't have been undercut so much - what happened to Bane is pretty much what happened to Megatron in the second Transformers movie
  • The League of Shadows link in the movie fine, but I didn't like the idea of the leadership's plan to blow themselves up in Gotham - who was going to continue leading the League afterwards?
  • The ending was telegraphed a bit too much with the whole autopilot scene and Alfred's France story

 

I hope they continue the series with the new Batman. Another movie in this series with a stealthier Batman who relies more on his detective skills and gadgets rather than directly whooping bad guys would be a good change of pace. Imagine, the new Batman could match wits with Riddler in the next movie, with Scarecrow lurking around!

 

In the end, despite its flaws and plot holes, Dark Knight Rises, in my opinion, is the best 3rd comic movie by far. My ranking would be:

 

  1. Dark Knight Rises
  2. Spiderman 3 (if only for the missed potential of having MJ die instead of Harry and taking Spiderman in a totally new direction)
  3. X-Men United
  4. Blade 3

 

PharmV

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I wished I liked the movie more than I did. The movie was okay to me overall, but I was somewhat let down.

 

Pro:

  • I like the idea of Blake being the new Batman. Since he comes from a police background, he could be more of a detective-style Batman if they made more movies
  • Ra's Al Ghul cameo by Liam Neeson was pretty cool
  • Scarecrow cameo was pretty cool too - I would be down with him antagonizing the new Batman in future movies
  • I liked Bane's characterization overall (minus the Talia reveal)
  • I actually like Bruce Wayne retiring - I think it's realistic of years of crimefighting takes a toll on the body (think professional athletes)

 

Con:

  • I didn't like Bane's voice - I kept thinking it was a cheesy Sean Connery impersonation for some reason
  • Not even a mention of the Joker anywhere in the movie, espcially he was the one ultimately responsible for screwing up Bruce Wayne's life
  • Talia's reveal could have been done better so that Bane's character wouldn't have been undercut so much - what happened to Bane is pretty much what happened to Megatron in the second Transformers movie
  • The League of Shadows link in the movie fine, but I didn't like the idea of the leadership's plan to blow themselves up in Gotham - who was going to continue leading the League afterwards?
  • The ending was telegraphed a bit too much with the whole autopilot scene and Alfred's France story

 

I hope they continue the series with the new Batman. Another movie in this series with a stealthier Batman who relies more on his detective skills and gadgets rather than directly whooping bad guys would be a good change of pace. Imagine, the new Batman could match wits with Riddler in the next movie, with Scarecrow lurking around!

 

In the end, despite its flaws and plot holes, Dark Knight Rises, in my opinion, is the best 3rd comic movie by far. My ranking would be:

 

  1. Dark Knight Rises
  2. Spiderman 3 (if only for the missed potential of having MJ die instead of Harry and taking Spiderman in a totally new direction)
  3. X-Men United
  4. Blade 3

 

PharmV

 

 

well to me none of them are good but a nice way how you rank things, lol

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I seriously hate the design of the Bat it looks like some one mixed an AH-1 Cobra helicopter with a tank and a bunch of heavy parts from a junkyard

post-15525-0-41523300-1343347162_thumb.jpg

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Just saw it tonight. Awesome movie. Yes, probably not quite as good as The Dark Knight, but I still enjoyed it immensely.

 

I knew from the beginning that Miranda Tate would be revealed to be Talia. They fooled me with Batman Begins and the Ra's reveal, but they didn't get me here. I was still very excited at the reveal though, as it just proved I was right. :)

 

I was like a giddy little kid when Batman actually showed up on the screen. I realized it was about 30-45 minutes into the movie and Batman was really just showing up, so somehow the wait made it very exciting.

 

The Bane character in my opinion came off very well, because he was very much like the way the character was originally when he came to be in Knightfall. I'll agree he ended up playing a bit of second fiddle to Talia once the reveal happened, but at that point he was only there for about another minute or so before Selina offed him.

 

Anne Hathaway killed any thoughts I had on whether she'd be a good Catwoman. I thought she played the character very well. I actually makes me wonder though where exactly she got all her training. Guess that's what they'll cover in her movie then.

 

I just plain like Joseph Gordon-Levitt, so I was intrigued by his character and where they were going with it. Personally, I would have liked it more if the woman at the end had referred to him as "Mr. Grayson" instead of Robin, but I know they did that because more non-comic fans would know what Robin meant.

 

Everyone else in the movie was just as good in this one as the rest (Oldman, Caine, Freeman) and I really enjoyed Cillian Murphy's cameo. I would have enjoyed Liam Neeson's cameo more if it was revealed he was actually still alive and not a dream.

 

Yes, it was by far the best "3rd" comic movie, but then the choices for "3rd" comic movies aren't that great to begin with.

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I just plain like Joseph Gordon-Levitt, so I was intrigued by his character and where they were going with it. Personally, I would have liked it more if the woman at the end had referred to him as "Mr. Grayson" instead of Robin, but I know they did that because more non-comic fans would know what Robin meant.

 

I know what you mean. With the last name being Blake, it would have been cool to see the first name as Tim and some mention of his last name being different from adoption or something. But, like you said, it would be to obscure for the general movie going audience.

 

Personally, I'm conflicted as to where I want the series to go next. I know that they'll be looking to get Bruce back in the suit with a Justice League movie on the horizon, but I think it would be intriguing to see where this story goes next and Blake's transformation into Batman. What I don't want to see is a continuation of the story with a quick fix that bring Bruce back to Gotham. Probably the best thing to do would get a new creative team and start in the middle of Batman's career in a new movie verse. We don't need to see another origin story. It might be fun to introduce a new Robin and use that story to reintroduce new comers to the Batman mythos.

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They should have named the John Blake character Jean Paul Valley...

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They should have named the John Blake character Jean Paul Valley...

 

The only problem with that is that only comic book fans would get it.

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They should have named the John Blake character Jean Paul Valley...

 

That have certainly set up an intriguing sequel. Blake becomes Batman, things go well at first, but he starts taking it to far with the criminals and Bruce returns to the scene. That would be cool, but Blake's character didn't seem like he could become such a thing. He even had that moment where he threw his gun away.

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They should have named the John Blake character Jean Paul Valley...

 

The only problem with that is that only comic book fans would get it.

 

I am sure that name would have been Googled by millions... I say it would have created a nice buzz... I thought the Robin name drop was stupid...

 

 

They should have named the John Blake character Jean Paul Valley...

 

That have certainly set up an intriguing sequel. Blake becomes Batman, things go well at first, but he starts taking it to far with the criminals and Bruce returns to the scene. That would be cool, but Blake's character didn't seem like he could become such a thing. He even had that moment where he threw his gun away.

 

I think an Azrael Batman movie would have been a nice break... I really don't want to see another Batman reboot unless its setting up the JLA movie...

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I just got back from seeing it

 

All I got to say it OMG!! That was an excellent movie

 

Boy I was so surprised that Ms Tate was Talia....I had a feeling I would see the Scarecrow again

 

Plus seeing Blake was "Robin"

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I've seen it, and really liked it as an ending to the trilogy.

 

My one big gripe is with Bane, while obviously a 100 times better than what we got in Batman and Robin, I totally hate that Nolan chose to give Talia Bane's origin in order to fit his story and have a twist thrown in there (I know general audiences might not even be aware of it, also that this is basically an elseworlds kind of scenario) but like others have said, it takes away from Bane's greatness as a character and made him second fiddle to a character that barely got any development during most of the film (until the 3rd act at least).

 

Also not a fan of how he appears to have been turned British (he even looked like a masked hooligan), him being latino is a big part of his personality, down to his original comic look.

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i guess in the end its just a matter of how we see things. i love your aspect of it. lets continue to talk about it.

 

as for the dent law thats why i miss the detective in batman. crime never sleeps and batman should have seen that something is coming by investigate these things. in the first movie he wanted to give people hope and here he just seems to think of himself. crime never sleeps. in the comics he is always the guy who goes further but here he just let go.

 

i also love when heroes have to struggle before they achieve their goal but sometimes you have to show something special so that i can say yes he is the one who can pull it off and lets not forget he is the batman so climbing walls, jumping on rooftops is kind of his speciality. thats why i hoped for him to show that he is better.

 

i see the crimefighting help in robin but to me bruce was alone so long and dick is the one who opens him up a little and i didnt saw that connection. the father/son thing. to me that kid made bruce what he is and because of it he didnt got lost to the batman characte.

 

a nuclear bomb? what about the side effects? gotham wasnt that far away.

 

OK :)

 

Bruce DID do some detective work in this film, actually. The whole thing with the prints and digging up Selina Kyle's history. The whole thing with him laying low for so long is the difference between comics and real life, IMO. In comics, time does not pass. Batman will fight criminal perpetually until the end of time. He'lll do this in movies too, only through reboots and recasting. This long break he took would not fly if it was the comics. However, for THIS story, one that seems to be trying to tell the story of what WOULD this guy do in real life, he may very well be considering retiring. The movie said that the cops pretty much have everything handled. Batman wasn't needed (or wanted). If I had to change it, I probably wouldn't have made it such a long time between films, maybe half as long. To have little kids on the street wondering if Batman's coming back after 8 years is a bit for fetched. Their attention span is for $h*% It was 4 years in real time too , right? They could have went with 4 years and told the same story.

 

You can call this a cop out, but we never did get a clear idea of just how far away that ledge was....:)

 

I say this next part with the expectation of the next Batman being a reboot anyway: I want to see the Robin origin on film for the next Batman movie. Done right! Do the next movies dark, gritty , real like these last three were, with a Dick Grayson origin and let's see Batman and Robin swinging through the city fighting crime for the first time without the cheese (**coughSchumachercough**) What did WB say? 8-10 years til the next one? :rolleyes:

 

You're right, the bomb was still pretty close.

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My only thing is ...How did Bruce get back into Gotham when the city was in lockdown?

 

He is Batman so I am sure he found a way...

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I just saw the movie and then finally read all the posts here since I they could no longer ruin the plot twists for me. Going into the movie, the only things I knew were;

A) the first two films

B) bane and cat woman are in the movie (commercials)

C) a characters real name was robin (it was pretty easy to guess which one after the first 20 minutes.)

 

I purposely didn't read any of the movie hype so that I couldn't be disappointed. Guess what; I wasn't. This was my favorite Batman film. Short of The Dark Knight Returns and The Killing Joke, it was my favorite piece of Batman fiction ever. The plot, while lengthy, gave us an appropriate ending to the saga, wrapped up some lose plot points and elaborated on some previous characters, and it left us with the impression that the movie universe isn't quite through with Batman's adventures (I know it is, but not because of anything in the actual movie). I liked how many different Batman stories were all weaved into this film in such a concise manner.

 

There were only two things that really bothered me about the plot. First thing was that they didn't even hint at what happened to the Joker. Was he in Blackgate when the prisoners were released?? I'm assuming that if Joker was in Arkham, it would have been outside of the area that Banes soldiers had the people trapped in. No biggie really. (on a side note, I don't see why people seem to think putting the Joker in this movie would have somehow been in poor taste or exploitive. He's a character, not an actor. Just because someone playing his role died, it doesn't mean there can never be another Joker appearance)

 

The second thing that bothered me was the neutron bomb going of what looked like 10-12 miles at most from the bridge, and not requiring everyone to move out of that area for years to come because of radiation levels. Even if it was underwater, I recall someone mentioning a 6 mile blast radius. That's huge!

 

The only thing I didn't like about this movie is all the belly aching I'm reading from the self appointed "true" Batman fans. So what if some stories were condensed and mixed together- that just makes the plot more comic accurate. Who cares if they don't explain the exact science behind Bane's mask- do you need diagrams or are you just studying for for your doctoral thesis? And maybe they didn't feature your favorite villain in this final Nolan film, but whose to say that that character didn't already appear in the movieverse between the first 2 films? We should all stop complaining about minor crap and appreciate the film, because its the best Batman movie you're going to see in a long time.

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Who cares if they don't explain the exact science behind Bane's mask- do you need diagrams or are you just studying for for your doctoral thesis?

 

I know. This is probably the first time I remember people calling for exact explainations as to the function of a superhero/villain's costume. Aren't they ALL just there for show anyway??? They showed Bane getting hurt. They told us it helps him breathe. What do ya want?

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Who cares if they don't explain the exact science behind Bane's mask- do you need diagrams or are you just studying for for your doctoral thesis?

 

I know. This is probably the first time I remember people calling for exact explainations as to the function of a superhero/villain's costume. Aren't they ALL just there for show anyway??? They sowed Bane getting hurt. They told us it helps him breathe. What do ya want?

 

 

what someone asked about that?? lol. i will see the movie again this weekend. my best friend was gone for 3 weeks and he hasnt seen it yet. maybe i will like it better the second time around.

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My only thing is ...How did Bruce get back into Gotham when the city was in lockdown?

probably snuck in through the water since Obama's SS military envoy was only really shown guarding the bridge and since they only seemed to be trying keep people in gotham via deadly force

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My only thing is ...How did Bruce get back into Gotham when the city was in lockdown?

probably snuck in through the water since Obama's SS military envoy was only really shown guarding the bridge and since they only seemed to be trying keep people in gotham via deadly force

 

 

that is also something. if the bomb would go off, i doubt the explosion would have stoped at the bridge

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My only thing is ...How did Bruce get back into Gotham when the city was in lockdown?

probably snuck in through the water since Obama's SS military envoy was only really shown guarding the bridge and since they only seemed to be trying keep people in gotham via deadly force

 

Obama, hu? I guess Nick Fury isn't the only person to get a race swap for a movie :P

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My only thing is ...How did Bruce get back into Gotham when the city was in lockdown?

probably snuck in through the water since Obama's SS military envoy was only really shown guarding the bridge and since they only seemed to be trying keep people in gotham via deadly force

 

 

that is also something. if the bomb would go off, i doubt the explosion would have stoped at the bridge

no it wouldn't they said in the film it was 4 megatons and 1 megaton is enough to level a city on it's own

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Overall I really enjoyed the movie and felt it had some amazing performances. The end really tugged on my gut. It did feel the weakest of the trilogy and it felt like it had to take a different than planned direction due to the lack of Joker. It's still a great movie.

 

Pros:

The performances. This was the first time I felt Bale wasn't fully overshadowed by other actors. His surprise at Talia's reveal, his determination at the prison etc. He didn't quite feel like the batman I wanted him to be, but he was a very solid character. Catwoman was nailed perfectly, Alfred tugged on my heart with his love for the wayne family, and Blake was protrayed well.

Bane's plan. The stock exchange plan was great, he had some great set ups. Overall Bane's actions were very intimidating.

The action in the plane.

The back breaking scene.

The ending! Like it or not that whole ending from the statue, to Alfred's face when he sees Bruce made me have those things women have, what are they called? emoticons are something? It tugged at me so much and felt like both such a good closure and a hint at the future it left me both wanting to know more about blake's Batman and satisfied at the completion of Nolan's tale.

Bane was redeemed, not perfect but he was still redeemed from the last film he was in.

The Scarecrow Cameo was a great surprise.

A reference to Gordon's broken family showed his sacrifices. And potentially set up a reason for his daughter to come back and live with him.

 

Cons:

The design and name of "The Bat" continued a trend of Nolan's vehicles disappointing me. Even naming it the Bat-Wing would have been a good step forwards.

I felt we missed something major. We should have been able to see Blake figure it out.

Bane's voice never felt intimidating and at times felt silly.

Foreshadowing of the ending was to strong. To me it clearly recalled the strong foreshadowing int he last movie when the Joker said something to the effect of, "it is our destiny to do this forever." It made it jarringly obvious that they couldn't follow through with that.

Talia wasn't necessary. She muddied the water a bit and felt like she wasn't given enough time. The coolest thing about her character to meas always has been the destiny she had with Bruce according to her father, without it she felt like she was shoehorned, especially if she was in disguise the whole time. As CEO of Wayne enterprises, she could have possibly done global damage! She seemed to be working on a different plan than Banes, infiltrate and take over, where bane wanted to isolate and annihilate.

The League of shadows were so devoted they were willing to kill themselves for not just their leader, but Her second in command?

Where Bane, Talia, and the rest of the league really fine with killing themselves and ending the League to get vengeance on man and do damage to Gotham? what about their future plans?

The length of retirement was too long imo!

How is it that Bruce needed a brace on his legs to walk properly, but after having his bake broken and doing some set-ups he was good to go? Nolan tried to have it both ways here, and together they contradicted and invalidated each other.

Since Bane had obviously been doing some crazy crap at the stock exchange couldn't Wayne fight the hostile take over? Obviously Bane had been there to due something, did the Cops not care what he did or what his motives where?

 

This Batman was driven, but obviously not so much as the comics. It was stated all along this Bruce never thought of himself as "Batman" (think TAS and Batman Beyond, where he even states he calls himself Batman) he was trying to change Gotham by setting up a symbol. A hole int he logic of the trilogy is that Joker could have been blamed for those deaths more easily than batman, especially since Bruce's concern was setting up a symbol for Hope, he just tossed that aside for awhile. But that aside, understanding that this Bruce is not TAS Batman or Comic Batman goes a long way in helping my enjoyment of the movie.

 

I think i have rattled on a bit too much here haven't I?

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