A v X Discussion

[Doom Saber]

It is something that Wb had done as well; in "The Batman" animated series, they couched Superman to make Batman more likable. It was weird watching Superman as a loner and Batman as the cooperative type. Fortunately, "The Batman" cartoon did not influenced the mainstream Dc universe unlike how the Wolverine influenced the comics.

 

Good observation.

 

Cyclops has been going down this road for a while...moving over for the more marketable Wolverine, which is too bad. It's been that way in all three of the X-Men movies in which his rolls became progressively smaller.

 

I get the angle Marvel is coming at him with. There's less than 200 mutants in existance, he's the leader of the X-Men (and therefore leader of all mutants, really) and he sees it as his job to keep his people alive no matter what. I get that. I just wish they could do it in a way that doesn't make him so hateable.

 

And the next time he's in a movie, have him DO something.

 

I completely agree with both statements, it seems that in almost in every media Cyclops gets the short end of the stick, The movies as they progressed were more Wolverine and the X-men than an actual X-men team movie even First Class which a very good movie had a totally unnecessary Wolverine cameo. Back on topic how's the event fared out so far? I read a couple of positive reviews and read it was one of the top selling comics on march.

Speaking of Wolverine being marketable, I read the new Avengers a vs x comic on my iPad, and the summary and cover art are very misleading. Going by the summary and cover art, I assumed that the issue would be about Wolverine and what side he would join. Instead, the book is about Luke Cage's and Jessica Jone's relationship; there is no subplot of Wolverine's decision to join which team in this issue.. The issue takes place shortly before the Avengers jump off the helicopter to fight the X-men.

[Dragon66]

Just finished issue 2, and I am glad that they are devoting the Vs. series to individual fights. There are just too many fights that need more panels than are allotted in this issue. I do love the scene where Cap keeps coming at Cyclops and smacks him in the head. I am looking forward to see how Dr. Strange vs. Magik plays out.

[Marvel_Joe_Spider]

Yea man those fight scenes were intense

[synch]

It is something that Wb had done as well; in "The Batman" animated series, they couched Superman to make Batman more likable. It was weird watching Superman as a loner and Batman as the cooperative type. Fortunately, "The Batman" cartoon did not influenced the mainstream Dc universe unlike how the Wolverine influenced the comics.

 

Good observation.

 

Cyclops has been going down this road for a while...moving over for the more marketable Wolverine, which is too bad. It's been that way in all three of the X-Men movies in which his rolls became progressively smaller.

 

I get the angle Marvel is coming at him with. There's less than 200 mutants in existance, he's the leader of the X-Men (and therefore leader of all mutants, really) and he sees it as his job to keep his people alive no matter what. I get that. I just wish they could do it in a way that doesn't make him so hateable.

 

And the next time he's in a movie, have him DO something.

 

I completely agree with both statements, it seems that in almost in every media Cyclops gets the short end of the stick, The movies as they progressed were more Wolverine and the X-men than an actual X-men team movie even First Class which a very good movie had a totally unnecessary Wolverine cameo. Back on topic how's the event fared out so far? I read a couple of positive reviews and read it was one of the top selling comics on march.

Speaking of Wolverine being marketable, I read the new Avengers a vs x comic on my iPad, and the summary and cover art are very misleading. Going by the summary and cover art, I assumed that the issue would be about Wolverine and what side he would join. Instead, the book is about Luke Cage's and Jessica Jone's relationship; there is no subplot of Wolverine's decision to join which team in this issue.. The issue takes place shortly before the Avengers jump off the helicopter to fight the X-men.

 

 

rookie .... never ever trust a comic cover ... as the age old saying goes don't judge a book by its cover LOL

[AtROSSitus]

I am loving this event so far. Not sure if I'll pick up all the tie-ins but can't wait for all the battles. This beats the hell out of the New 52 books (although I am still digging the GL titles).

 

 

[Dragon66]

AvX:Vs. #1 was a fun book, I like the AvX Fun Facts. Also read the Uncanny X-Men issue with Red Hulk and Colossus on the cover. That ended up being a fun fight, but what happened to Colossus with Juggernaut's helmet? I haven't kept up with the X-Men lately, so what is the deal with Colossus? And what happened to Cain Marko?

[jedicrippler]

In the Fear Itself event Juggernaut was one of the 8 possessed by the Serpent, something like Odin's long lost brother based on fear. Juggy was making a bee-line for San Fran where the X-Men have set up shop. Nothing was even slowing him down, so Cyke came up with a plan to send a team to visit Cyttorak in his home dimension & point out that yeah, Juggy's causing massive havoc, but it's not in his name anymore. Cyttorak agreed to give his power to one of those sent to visit him. It was apparently supposed to be Illyana (back from the dead...sort of-ish), but Piotr stepped in front of her & took the power himself. He's still got it. Or does it have him....

[Dragon66]

In the Fear Itself event Juggernaut was one of the 8 possessed by the Serpent, something like Odin's long lost brother based on fear. Juggy was making a bee-line for San Fran where the X-Men have set up shop. Nothing was even slowing him down, so Cyke came up with a plan to send a team to visit Cyttorak in his home dimension & point out that yeah, Juggy's causing massive havoc, but it's not in his name anymore. Cyttorak agreed to give his power to one of those sent to visit him. It was apparently supposed to be Illyana (back from the dead...sort of-ish), but Piotr stepped in front of her & took the power himself. He's still got it. Or does it have him....

Thanks for the info, I knew Juggernaut was one of the eight selected in Fear Itself, but wasn't sure about how Colossus came into using his powers.

[yojoebro82]

In the Fear Itself event Juggernaut was one of the 8 possessed by the Serpent, something like Odin's long lost brother based on fear. Juggy was making a bee-line for San Fran where the X-Men have set up shop. Nothing was even slowing him down, so Cyke came up with a plan to send a team to visit Cyttorak in his home dimension & point out that yeah, Juggy's causing massive havoc, but it's not in his name anymore. Cyttorak agreed to give his power to one of those sent to visit him. It was apparently supposed to be Illyana (back from the dead...sort of-ish), but Piotr stepped in front of her & took the power himself. He's still got it. Or does it have him....

 

That actually sounds like a somewhat interesting plot...

[Doom Saber]

In the Fear Itself event Juggernaut was one of the 8 possessed by the Serpent, something like Odin's long lost brother based on fear. Juggy was making a bee-line for San Fran where the X-Men have set up shop. Nothing was even slowing him down, so Cyke came up with a plan to send a team to visit Cyttorak in his home dimension & point out that yeah, Juggy's causing massive havoc, but it's not in his name anymore. Cyttorak agreed to give his power to one of those sent to visit him. It was apparently supposed to be Illyana (back from the dead...sort of-ish), but Piotr stepped in front of her & took the power himself. He's still got it. Or does it have him....

 

That actually sounds like a somewhat interesting plot...

 

Anyone read issue 5? I find the twist a bit stupid, but I guess it was done as a means to retcon things if needed.

 

SPOILER ALERT!

 

 

At the end of issue 5, we find out that the Phoenix gives the X-men Cyclops, Colossus, Emma Frost, Magik, Magneto?, and Namor? powers so that they can bring Hope to her. They get their own dark phoenix costumes.

 

 

I can see this revelations as a means for Marvel to do a cop out to explain Cyclop's douchy personality;

Marvel can easily blame Cyclop's recent personality as being brainwashed by the Phoenix.

I also get a sense that the Avengers are the good guys in the arch and the X-men are the bad guys - not surprising since it is most likely a way to promote the Avengers movie.

[jedicrippler]

Uncanny X-Men #13 actually does a pretty good job of explaining what's happening at the end of A V X #5. And what the Phoenix's motivation for returning to Earth right now actually is.

 

If you can trust the character (Unit) doing the explaining. He's doesn't seem to be telling everything he knows & may not be truthful about what he does say.

[synch]

In the Fear Itself event Juggernaut was one of the 8 possessed by the Serpent, something like Odin's long lost brother based on fear. Juggy was making a bee-line for San Fran where the X-Men have set up shop. Nothing was even slowing him down, so Cyke came up with a plan to send a team to visit Cyttorak in his home dimension & point out that yeah, Juggy's causing massive havoc, but it's not in his name anymore. Cyttorak agreed to give his power to one of those sent to visit him. It was apparently supposed to be Illyana (back from the dead...sort of-ish), but Piotr stepped in front of her & took the power himself. He's still got it. Or does it have him....

 

That actually sounds like a somewhat interesting plot...

 

Anyone read issue 5? I find the twist a bit stupid, but I guess it was done as a means to retcon things if needed.

 

SPOILER ALERT!

 

 

At the end of issue 5, we find out that the Phoenix gives the X-men Cyclops, Colossus, Emma Frost, Magik, Magneto?, and Namor? powers so that they can bring Hope to her. They get their own dark phoenix costumes.

 

 

I can see this revelations as a means for Marvel to do a cop out to explain Cyclop's douchy personality;

Marvel can easily blame Cyclop's recent personality as being brainwashed by the Phoenix.

I also get a sense that the Avengers are the good guys in the arch and the X-men are the bad guys - not surprising since it is most likely a way to promote the Avengers movie.

not really unless they make it end up having the phoenix affect him/them for a long long longg time IMO cyclops has always been a really really really big Dbag

[Dragon66]

I just finished AvX #12 and can say that I have enjoyed the series as whole. For the first time in many years, an event feels like it actually has an ending, not just a set up for the next event. Yes, there were some missteps along the course of he series, but it feels like the close of the event a year cycle Marvel started with Avengers Dissassembled/House of M. I am looking forward to seeing where Uncanny Avengers goes starting next week.

[yojoebro82]

Haven't read it, but skimmed the last page of the final issue. Spoiler:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Cyclops killed professor X , hu? What brought that about?

[Pharmacoviper]

Haven't read it, but skimmed the last page of the final issue. Spoiler:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Cyclops killed professor X , hu? What brought that about?

 

SPOILERS:

 

Cyclops grabbed all the power of the Phoenix for himself. Professor X tried to stop him, but Cyclops killed him in retaliation. Cyclops started crying afterwards, asking why was he pushed to this point. Immediately afterwards, he went into Dark Phoenix mode.

 

PharmV

[yojoebro82]

 

SPOILERS:

 

Cyclops grabbed all the power of the Phoenix for himself. Professor X tried to stop him, but Cyclops killed him in retaliation. Cyclops started crying afterwards, asking why was he pushed to this point. Immediately afterwards, he went into Dark Phoenix mode.

 

PharmV

 

 

Yeah....so, looks like I STILL have no regrets about dropping X-Men years ago.

[CaptainTriumph]

 

SPOILERS:

 

Cyclops grabbed all the power of the Phoenix for himself. Professor X tried to stop him, but Cyclops killed him in retaliation. Cyclops started crying afterwards, asking why was he pushed to this point. Immediately afterwards, he went into Dark Phoenix mode.

 

PharmV

 

 

Yeah....so, looks like I STILL have no regrets about dropping X-Men years ago.

I'm with you there.

[Doom Saber]

Even though I bought all the AVX main comic series (I hardly buy comics other than this), I stopped reading the issue (but continue to glance) when....

 

 

SPOILER

 

Cyclops kills Pro. X. From there, Cyclops gets pwned by Scarlet Witch and Hope. He then goes to a jail made out of Ruby Quartz where he is punished for his crimes despite that his actions were due to him being possessed by the Phoenix. So he is still being treated like a bad guy despite other characters like Jean Grey and Hal Jordan, who basically did the same thing, get their hands washed because they were possessed? I call it BS!

 

Anyway, Captain America is creating an Avengers team consist of X-men characters - I guess this is what the new Uncanny Avengers is about.

 

Fianlly, mutants are back. Scarlet Witch undid her "No Mutants" comment from House of M by holding hands with a white Phoenix Hope, and saying "No more Phoenix."

 

The Phoenix power gets redistributed to the people on earth, making more mutants. BS

 

*END SPOILER*

 

Ever since the Wolverine and The X-men cartoon, it seems like Marvel is trying to make Wolverine more like Cyclops and Cyclops more like Wolverine. I understand that Wolverine and The Avengers are popular especially because of their movies, but do they have to poop on Cyclops to make the Avengers and Wolverine look like saints? It is like what my friend said, "Marvel needs to get off Wolverine's d**k." I agree with her.

[Doom Saber]

 

SPOILERS:

 

Cyclops grabbed all the power of the Phoenix for himself. Professor X tried to stop him, but Cyclops killed him in retaliation. Cyclops started crying afterwards, asking why was he pushed to this point. Immediately afterwards, he went into Dark Phoenix mode.

 

PharmV

 

 

Yeah....so, looks like I STILL have no regrets about dropping X-Men years ago.

 

 

they pretty much made Cyclops an out-of-control Magneto. Funny how Magneto seems more sane than Cyclops in this comic series.

[Belmont13]

I agree with everything Doom Saber said, I thought the same thing about how Cyclops is being made the villain, I thought Jean Grey killed more people than him and she's like a sacred cow in comics. I also agre that Marvel should stop with their Wolverine obssesion his overexposure is getting ridiculous. I actually read the first half of this event and it was okay with some pretty cool fights but some of the guys on both sides were acting out of character and I really hate Hope's constant whining.

[yojoebro82]

Used to be my favorite superhero team, now I wouldn't touch X-Men with a ten foot pole. Luckily I still have every issue from Giant Sized #1 up through Messiah Complex, a vast majority of which I have yet to read. Whenever I need an X-Men fix I can go there. I really do believe those Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne runs were some of the best superhero stories ever published. The team wasn't a mess of hateable douches, they LIKED eachother. Woverine wasn't over exposed, and Cyclops wasn't ruined to the point where only a retcon can save him.

[Doom Saber]

The problem I have with Wolverine as he is written now is that he is being written like a Mary Sue character - he can't do anything wrong, he can't die, all of his decisions are just or right, he gets all the girls, and he is good at everything he does. I know that his tagline, but I miss the older story lines where Wolverine was a flawed character. Sure he has problems like the other characters, but at the end of the day, he is right.

 

I knew that the Avengers were the good guys when Wolverine and Spiderman joined the Avengers side rather than X-men side. The same was with Civil War even though Spiderman was on Ironman's side - however, there was hint that isn't what Spiderman wanted.

[Doom Saber]

I agree with everything Doom Saber said, I thought the same thing about how Cyclops is being made the villain, I thought Jean Grey killed more people than him and she's like a sacred cow in comics. I also agre that Marvel should stop with their Wolverine obssesion his overexposure is getting ridiculous. I actually read the first half of this event and it was okay with some pretty cool fights but some of the guys on both sides were acting out of character and I really hate Hope's constant whining.

 

It was weird when the Avengers were clearly written as the good guys while the X-men were written as villains.

 

 

SPOILER

 

I also think it is stupid that Captain America blames Cyclops for breaking up Storm's and Black Panther's marriage. It isn't Cyclops' fault that Storm decided to join the X-men side. I just looked at the ending again, and I am surprised that Captain America is blaming everything on Cyclops. When Cyclops makes the correct assumption that new mutants are born and that the Phoenix came not to destroy us, Captain America basically said that Cyclops was out to destroy humanity - not the Phoenix. I thought the main reason the Phoenix entity was written into the comics the first place is to wash Jean Grey's hands from the killings.

 

I think it is terrible writing - it also makes readers hate Cyclops even more. I think someone at Marvel really dislikes Cyclops.

 

END SPOILER

[Doom Saber]

I don't know why this series irated me off so much! Maybe because I grew up seeing Cyclops as the straight boy scout, and I am upset how Marvel pooped all over him just to promote the Avengers and the never-dying Wolverine craze. I rarely get pissed over a comic book.

 

I also don't think it is right that other heroes who go rogue like a non-possessed Wanda gets a free pass after killing off most of the Avengers, but Cyclops goes to prison for his crimes even though he was under the influence of the Phoenix Force. WTF!?

 

A poster on the CBR forum puts it best:

 

Very well said my friend. I completely agree with you about the death of the X-men. We will see if they get a revival of some kind in the future (although with Big Bird getting the axe as well apparently a new day is upon us).

 

 

 

How ironic is it that in all of this Captain America who opposed the Civil War and was supposed to be on trial for his crimes gets shot down comes back to life and never has to pay for what he did opposing the government and causing trouble only to get rewarded by the new Top Cop.

 

 

 

Isn't further ironic that Wanda who killed more than one Avenger and did something that lead to the deaths of several other mutants gets whisked away only to come back and not have to pay for her crimes? Even though the X-men wanted her to be tried for her crimes against both man and mutant kind. Now she is back to being a full rank and file Avenger with no penalties.

 

 

 

Even further ironic is that Tony Stark gets a brain wipe and forgets all the terrible things he's done and now all his friends forgive him

 

 

 

Now isn't something that Cyclops now gets to sit in a jail cell and pay for what he did even though he was not in control of his mind and even owns up and take responsibility for what he did.

 

 

 

Now Wolverine the ultimate turn coat and sell out gets to call the shots because he's Marvel's number two or three superhero (behind Cap & Spider-Man) as cap shoots a grin at him and asks "if he has anything to add? "

 

 

 

Wow this story disappoints but as in othe posts that I have made I never the screw job was coming I just didn't think the X-men would get it this bad. Now the evil genius behind it all gets a plaque and gets handed the keys to the franchise he just destroyed.

[yojoebro82]

Ugh, Doom Saber, the more you post, the more I can't believe how bad it's gotten. You (and that other guy you posted quotes for ) are right about all of your gripes, however.

 

Since Civil Was was brought up....man, for as much as that storyline was hyped, are there any real cosnequences from ANYTHING that happened there? Spidey revealed his identity and was retconed immediately afterward, so quickly one wonders why they made his ID public at all (Oh, I know, cheep, quick sales!). There was supposed to be a huge rift between all the heroes and Reed and Sue and that was mended almost immediately afterwards. Everything they were fighting over-superhero registration-is now a non-factor in today's MU. And as was stated, Cap comes back from the dead and has zero consequences for going against the govt.

 

These lame @$$ events are what have turned me off to modern Marvel. The books and the characters that I WANT to enjoy reading about all suffer because of them. And things aren't going to change any time soon.