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Dragon66

DC All-Stars Wave 2

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I'm always amazed that people care about the positive/negative thing.

 

I guess Red Robin is payback for people complaining that the Wave 3 Tim was too small? They have plenty of "younger" bodies that they could use here, so cost isn't even an excuse. If the figure is shorter like Atom is then I could go for him, though.

 

The rest don't interest me at all.

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I guess Red Robin is payback for people complaining that the Wave 3 Tim was too small? They have plenty of "younger" bodies that they could use here, so cost isn't even an excuse.

 

Cost should NEVER be an excuse. They charge nearly $20 a pop for these and people still say "oh well", and buy them anyway. They have the money to sculpt an all new figure.

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From the adult collector's standpoint this wave is trash. The only thing I'm surprised about so far is the diversity (a loose term) of Wave One, which was probably used to buy more time to get the "New 52" designs completed.

 

 

I guess Red Robin is payback for people complaining that the Wave 3 Tim was too small? They have plenty of "younger" bodies that they could use here, so cost isn't even an excuse.

 

Cost should NEVER be an excuse. They charge nearly $20 a pop for these and people still say "oh well", and buy them anyway. They have the money to sculpt an all new figure.

 

I don't know where you're going with this, but it's expensive to make a figure. Johnny Rebel used to bold face the superiority of Marvel Legends, in particular how they (for the most part) used different bodies.

 

How's Toy Biz doing these days? Maybe Mattel used the wrong body but to sculpt a new one for a retail line?

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I am not really interested in this wave. Which is good because I have to start paying my student loans and my ability to get Larfleeze, Batman Beyond and Superboy Prime is in doubt so the last thing I needed was more figures that I desperately want.

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From the adult collector's standpoint this wave is trash. The only thing I'm surprised about so far is the diversity (a loose term) of Wave One, which was probably used to buy more time to get the "New 52" designs completed.

 

 

I guess Red Robin is payback for people complaining that the Wave 3 Tim was too small? They have plenty of "younger" bodies that they could use here, so cost isn't even an excuse.

 

Cost should NEVER be an excuse. They charge nearly $20 a pop for these and people still say "oh well", and buy them anyway. They have the money to sculpt an all new figure.

 

I don't know where you're going with this, but it's expensive to make a figure. Johnny Rebel used to bold face the superiority of Marvel Legends, in particular how they (for the most part) used different bodies.

 

How's Toy Biz doing these days? Maybe Mattel used the wrong body but to sculpt a new one for a retail line?

With gas prices going up and the economy being crummy, it is unrealistic to expect new sculpts with a price increase. I am certain Toybiz sold off the license to Hasbro because they weren't making any profit. Not to mention they were having delays at the end of their days - my guess is that they were struggling with their fulfillers in China; it is hard to maintain a consistent quality in products if the company doesn't own the manufacturing plant regardless of where the plant is.. Mattel and Hasbro's plastic quality tends to be better than the smaller companies because they are big corporations that own their own factories.

 

True Toybiz never outright said that they were losing money when making ML figures, they did hinted to it via Pr mumbo jumbo. No company in their right mind would say that to the public because it would hurt sales. The same goes for Sota. They were losing money big time. But because through the magic of PR done by Sota's former boss (he was also the PR person), it somehow got skewed to it being everyone's fault except for the old Sota management. Doesn't make sense.

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With gas prices going up and the economy being crummy, it is unrealistic to expect new sculpts with a price increase. I am certain Toybiz sold off the license to Hasbro because they weren't making any profit. Not to mention they were having delays at the end of their days - my guess is that they were struggling with their fulfillers in China; it is hard to maintain a consistent quality in products if the company doesn't own the manufacturing plant regardless of where the plant is.. Mattel and Hasbro's plastic quality tends to be better than the smaller companies because they are big corporations that own their own factories.

 

True Toybiz never outright said that they were losing money when making ML figures, they did hinted to it via Pr mumbo jumbo. No company in their right mind would say that to the public because it would hurt sales. The same goes for Sota. They were losing money big time. But because through the magic of PR done by Sota's former boss (he was also the PR person), it somehow got skewed to it being everyone's fault except for the old Sota management. Doesn't make sense.

 

Well it's funny you should mention gas prices because other people keep mentioning this and they clearly don't understand basic business or what action figures are made of.

 

Gas prices may or may not be going down but a barrel of oil is still pushing $100. Last time I checked action figures aren't made of gasoline.

 

On top of that, you can't just change your company's overhead on a whim. If by some miracle the price of a barrel drops $30 you can't just drop the price of your product to reflect the price of a barrel. And if you do you can join the already lengthy unemployment line.

 

As for Toy Biz I guess I shouldn't have insinuated that it went out of business because they used different bodies on their ML figures. All I was saying was making every figure completely unique can be an expensive process.

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With gas prices going up and the economy being crummy, it is unrealistic to expect new sculpts with a price increase. I am certain Toybiz sold off the license to Hasbro because they weren't making any profit. Not to mention they were having delays at the end of their days - my guess is that they were struggling with their fulfillers in China; it is hard to maintain a consistent quality in products if the company doesn't own the manufacturing plant regardless of where the plant is.. Mattel and Hasbro's plastic quality tends to be better than the smaller companies because they are big corporations that own their own factories.

 

True Toybiz never outright said that they were losing money when making ML figures, they did hinted to it via Pr mumbo jumbo. No company in their right mind would say that to the public because it would hurt sales. The same goes for Sota. They were losing money big time. But because through the magic of PR done by Sota's former boss (he was also the PR person), it somehow got skewed to it being everyone's fault except for the old Sota management. Doesn't make sense.

 

Well it's funny you should mention gas prices because other people keep mentioning this and they clearly don't understand basic business or what action figures are made of.

 

Gas prices may or may not be going down but a barrel of oil is still pushing $100. Last time I checked action figures aren't made of gasoline.

 

On top of that, you can't just change your company's overhead on a whim. If by some miracle the price of a barrel drops $30 you can't just drop the price of your product to reflect the price of a barrel. And if you do you can join the already lengthy unemployment line.

 

As for Toy Biz I guess I shouldn't have insinuated that it went out of business because they used different bodies on their ML figures. All I was saying was making every figure completely unique can be an expensive process.

 

While it is true that figures aren't made out of gasoline, they are made up from the same material as gasoline, which is steadily going up.

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With gas prices going up and the economy being crummy, it is unrealistic to expect new sculpts with a price increase. I am certain Toybiz sold off the license to Hasbro because they weren't making any profit. Not to mention they were having delays at the end of their days - my guess is that they were struggling with their fulfillers in China; it is hard to maintain a consistent quality in products if the company doesn't own the manufacturing plant regardless of where the plant is.. Mattel and Hasbro's plastic quality tends to be better than the smaller companies because they are big corporations that own their own factories.

 

True Toybiz never outright said that they were losing money when making ML figures, they did hinted to it via Pr mumbo jumbo. No company in their right mind would say that to the public because it would hurt sales. The same goes for Sota. They were losing money big time. But because through the magic of PR done by Sota's former boss (he was also the PR person), it somehow got skewed to it being everyone's fault except for the old Sota management. Doesn't make sense.

 

Well it's funny you should mention gas prices because other people keep mentioning this and they clearly don't understand basic business or what action figures are made of.

 

Gas prices may or may not be going down but a barrel of oil is still pushing $100. Last time I checked action figures aren't made of gasoline.

 

On top of that, you can't just change your company's overhead on a whim. If by some miracle the price of a barrel drops $30 you can't just drop the price of your product to reflect the price of a barrel. And if you do you can join the already lengthy unemployment line.

 

As for Toy Biz I guess I shouldn't have insinuated that it went out of business because they used different bodies on their ML figures. All I was saying was making every figure completely unique can be an expensive process.

 

While it is true that figures aren't made out of gasoline, they are made up from the same material as gasoline, which is steadily going up.

 

The point is some people are saying "Gas is down to $3.25" which is fine and dandy but it has nothing to do with the production and price of action figures.

 

And again, if the price of oil does magically go down on Tuesday it doesn't change the fact that Mattel has already projected its overhead.

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With gas prices going up and the economy being crummy, it is unrealistic to expect new sculpts with a price increase. I am certain Toybiz sold off the license to Hasbro because they weren't making any profit. Not to mention they were having delays at the end of their days - my guess is that they were struggling with their fulfillers in China; it is hard to maintain a consistent quality in products if the company doesn't own the manufacturing plant regardless of where the plant is.. Mattel and Hasbro's plastic quality tends to be better than the smaller companies because they are big corporations that own their own factories.

 

True Toybiz never outright said that they were losing money when making ML figures, they did hinted to it via Pr mumbo jumbo. No company in their right mind would say that to the public because it would hurt sales. The same goes for Sota. They were losing money big time. But because through the magic of PR done by Sota's former boss (he was also the PR person), it somehow got skewed to it being everyone's fault except for the old Sota management. Doesn't make sense.

 

Well it's funny you should mention gas prices because other people keep mentioning this and they clearly don't understand basic business or what action figures are made of.

 

Gas prices may or may not be going down but a barrel of oil is still pushing $100. Last time I checked action figures aren't made of gasoline.

 

On top of that, you can't just change your company's overhead on a whim. If by some miracle the price of a barrel drops $30 you can't just drop the price of your product to reflect the price of a barrel. And if you do you can join the already lengthy unemployment line.

 

As for Toy Biz I guess I shouldn't have insinuated that it went out of business because they used different bodies on their ML figures. All I was saying was making every figure completely unique can be an expensive process.

 

While it is true that figures aren't made out of gasoline, they are made up from the same material as gasoline, which is steadily going up.

 

The point is some people are saying "Gas is down to $3.25" which is fine and dandy but it has nothing to do with the production and price of action figures.

 

And again, if the price of oil does magically go down on Tuesday it doesn't change the fact that Mattel has already projected its overhead.

 

 

That is true. Toy products don't fluctuate like gasoline prices especially how the former isn't involved in politics; regardless of who is the president, gasoline prices tend to drop during an election year.

 

Having recently started working as a temp at a big corporation that produces goods, I agree with the things you said. It is so easy for us consumers to point the finger at Mattel and blame them for whatever. Marketing the figures and adjusting the price point comes in months, if not a year in advance. Mattel even mentioned the price hike several months ago. It is expensive making toys especially during a time when the economy is bad, and the major demographics the toy companies are targeting (kids and teens) are swaying away from toys. It is bad marketing to produce a lot of tools for new body sculpts that are going to be used once.

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One of the issues causing the price of all of Mattel's and Hasbro's products to increase is increase in minimum wages in China. Factor that in with the ever increasing price of petroleum and prices are going to go up. That is just from a production standpoint. On the domestic front, gas prices cause havoc on the cost of distribution. We may not like these price increases, but that is the reality of doing business. Just think about it, when Toybiz was in their prime, a gallon of gas averaged $1.00-1.25, a gallon of milk cost under $2.00, you could find candy bars and cans of soda for $.50.

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One of the issues causing the price of all of Mattel's and Hasbro's products to increase is increase in minimum wages in China. Factor that in with the ever increasing price of petroleum and prices are going to go up. That is just from a production standpoint. On the domestic front, gas prices cause havoc on the cost of distribution. We may not like these price increases, but that is the reality of doing business. Just think about it, when Toybiz was in their prime, a gallon of gas averaged $1.00-1.25, a gallon of milk cost under $2.00, you could find candy bars and cans of soda for $.50.

 

OK, that's a good point, gas is required for distribution. But again, what we pay at the pump has nothing to do with the creation of an action figure.

 

But since some people insist on comparing the two they probably already knew analysts expect prices to go close to $4 again.

 

I'm sure Mattel's already figured it out. After all, it is "standard procedure" for toy companies to determine how expensive a figure needs to be to make a profit.

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One of the issues causing the price of all of Mattel's and Hasbro's products to increase is increase in minimum wages in China. Factor that in with the ever increasing price of petroleum and prices are going to go up. That is just from a production standpoint. On the domestic front, gas prices cause havoc on the cost of distribution. We may not like these price increases, but that is the reality of doing business. Just think about it, when Toybiz was in their prime, a gallon of gas averaged $1.00-1.25, a gallon of milk cost under $2.00, you could find candy bars and cans of soda for $.50.

 

Exactly. Speaking of which, if major toy companies bring toy manufacturing to the US, toy prices will increase even more.

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I'm sure Mattel's already figured it out. After all, it is "standard procedure" for toy companies to determine how expensive a figure needs to be to make a profit.

 

 

True. Some customers have to remember that toy companies aren't are friends nor are enemies; I feel that some correlates price of a toy with "love", which is stupid. What I mean is that when a company increase toy prices or don't offer free shipping, they are greedy, souless corporations that do not care about their customers. But when they love cost and take a hit by offering free shipping all the time, they are our best friends.

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People people.....gas or oil has never had that much of an influance on the price of plastic. If this were true then the price of ALL THINGS PLASTIC would have steadily increased over the decades the way they have the last few years. Don't you find it odd that around the same time the 70ies & 80ies era are found to be cash cows....toys based of their continuity suddenly experiance. 50-100% price hike? There are no coincidances. If anything China getting a minium wage for the 1st time in history has more to do with price increase that "big oil".

 

The DC lic is the real culprit here. That & the unending demand for more POA & a sculpt that won't be compromised by said POA. Mattel has had it with unrealistic demands from fans. On one hand they wax poetic about the "good ol days" when toys were "good"....yet they seem to forget that toys were also no where near as detailed as todays (altho there are some exceptions). Face it.....big oil is or was just an excuse thought up by either fans wanting to justify forking out crazy amounts of money for toys they want & not feeling like a fool for having done so......or the toy companies themself.

 

Think I'm wrong.......then I invite you to take a trip down the K.O. toy ile. Big ass boxes of trucks....farm equipment.....municipale vehicles.......millitary convoys.......huge bags of army men! & all for under $20 per set! No lic.....no price hike. & no lame excuse about big oil.

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People people.....gas or oil has never had that much of an influance on the price of plastic. If this were true then the price of ALL THINGS PLASTIC would have steadily increased over the decades the way they have the last few years. Don't you find it odd that around the same time the 70ies & 80ies era are found to be cash cows....toys based of their continuity suddenly experiance. 50-100% price hike? There are no coincidances. If anything China getting a minium wage for the 1st time in history has more to do with price increase that "big oil".

 

The DC lic is the real culprit here. That & the unending demand for more POA & a sculpt that won't be compromised by said POA. Mattel has had it with unrealistic demands from fans. On one hand they wax poetic about the "good ol days" when toys were "good"....yet they seem to forget that toys were also no where near as detailed as todays (altho there are some exceptions). Face it.....big oil is or was just an excuse thought up by either fans wanting to justify forking out crazy amounts of money for toys they want & not feeling like a fool for having done so......or the toy companies themself.

 

Think I'm wrong.......then I invite you to take a trip down the K.O. toy ile. Big ass boxes of trucks....farm equipment.....municipale vehicles.......millitary convoys.......huge bags of army men! & all for under $20 per set! No lic.....no price hike. & no lame excuse about big oil.

 

 

A lot of those ko toys are made up of inferior plastic - some with lead paint. No thanks.

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People people.....gas or oil has never had that much of an influance on the price of plastic. If this were true then the price of ALL THINGS PLASTIC would have steadily increased over the decades the way they have the last few years. Don't you find it odd that around the same time the 70ies & 80ies era are found to be cash cows....toys based of their continuity suddenly experiance. 50-100% price hike? There are no coincidances. If anything China getting a minium wage for the 1st time in history has more to do with price increase that "big oil".

 

The DC lic is the real culprit here. That & the unending demand for more POA & a sculpt that won't be compromised by said POA. Mattel has had it with unrealistic demands from fans. On one hand they wax poetic about the "good ol days" when toys were "good"....yet they seem to forget that toys were also no where near as detailed as todays (altho there are some exceptions). Face it.....big oil is or was just an excuse thought up by either fans wanting to justify forking out crazy amounts of money for toys they want & not feeling like a fool for having done so......or the toy companies themself.

 

Think I'm wrong.......then I invite you to take a trip down the K.O. toy ile. Big ass boxes of trucks....farm equipment.....municipale vehicles.......millitary convoys.......huge bags of army men! & all for under $20 per set! No lic.....no price hike. & no lame excuse about big oil.

 

 

A lot of those ko toys are made up of inferior plastic - some with lead paint. No thanks.

 

I'm gonna step out on a limb here & assume you've read your fair share of Mattel QC threads.....yes? Well then there you go! One of the biggest marketing ploys in the world is to dupe its consumers into thinking name brand is some how superior to generic. I bet none of that generic stuff needs to get boiled....frozen......hair dryer ect ect

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People people.....gas or oil has never had that much of an influance on the price of plastic. If this were true then the price of ALL THINGS PLASTIC would have steadily increased over the decades the way they have the last few years. Don't you find it odd that around the same time the 70ies & 80ies era are found to be cash cows....toys based of their continuity suddenly experiance. 50-100% price hike? There are no coincidances. If anything China getting a minium wage for the 1st time in history has more to do with price increase that "big oil".

 

The DC lic is the real culprit here. That & the unending demand for more POA & a sculpt that won't be compromised by said POA. Mattel has had it with unrealistic demands from fans. On one hand they wax poetic about the "good ol days" when toys were "good"....yet they seem to forget that toys were also no where near as detailed as todays (altho there are some exceptions). Face it.....big oil is or was just an excuse thought up by either fans wanting to justify forking out crazy amounts of money for toys they want & not feeling like a fool for having done so......or the toy companies themself.

 

 

Think I'm wrong.......then I invite you to take a trip down the K.O. toy ile. Big ass boxes of trucks....farm equipment.....municipale vehicles.......millitary convoys.......huge bags of army men! & all for under $20 per set! No lic.....no price hike. & no lame excuse about big oil.

 

 

A lot of those ko toys are made up of inferior plastic - some with lead paint. No thanks.

 

I'm gonna step out on a limb here & assume you've read your fair share of Mattel QC threads.....yes? Well then there you go! One of the biggest marketing ploys in the world is to dupe its consumers into thinking name brand is some how superior to generic. I bet none of that generic stuff needs to get boiled....frozen......hair dryer ect ect

 

I never said that brand name products are superior to generics, so yeah...the thing with brand name stuff with non brand stuff is that the former owns some of the factories that produces their product, so they have a better control with quality. As I said before, I am working at a business that makes goods so I know a little bit about quality control when it comes to a factory that is corporate own compared to one it doesn't - I read actual QC problems at work. I am also a consumer.

 

Non brand toys are not immune to QC problems. there are horror stories that small companies has to deal with when they have their toys produced by a factory that they don't own. For instance, I call seeing on the news where this guy had a factory in China to produce a 1:1 toy car for kids. It was an order of several thousand. However, because there was a design flaw that made the toy car dangerous, the guy didn't want the toys hit the market. He ended up paying money for the flawed line of cars. If he didn't pay, the factory would have sold it as a generic/bootleg product to pay for the cost of making the toys.

 

When a company owns their factory, they have a better control of the toy's quality. They would have tested the toy quality before mass producing it. Bigger toy companies can also take hit if say a couple of their product is defected. Sure, a few defects like stuck joints is bad, but it isn't so bad when you compare it to something like a jagged edges or any other health risk. Not saying that brand name companies are above major QC problems since it does happen, but it is less common than bootlegs.

 

As for the ko comment I made a post above, I have had own quite a few bootleg products. To clarify, I owned a few gundam and evangelion bootleg model kits. The difference is that the quality on the bootleg are more prone to crack - the arms on the bootleg Eva kits I owned all suffered from cracked arms. The plastic that held the rubber portion of the arm is too fragile, hence the breakage. Compare this to an official one where the plastic is much sturdier. The sculpted details on the bootleg is also poor from constant use.

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big oil is or was just an excuse thought up by either fans wanting to justify forking out crazy amounts of money for toys they want & not feeling like a fool for having done so......or the toy companies themself.

 

I tend to agree with this.

 

DCAS Wave 2 is underwhelming to me. Red Robin is the only figure I'd even consider getting. I'm sure there is a demand for DCnU figures, but I think the people that wanted them were expecting the double jointed knees and elbows. I really don't believe that many, if any, parents purchase these figures at $15 or more. Maybe parents who are collectors themselves, but with other more kid oriented products at a better price point I doubt parents who don't care about DCUC buy them much. It seems many older collectors and fans aren't enthusiastic about DcnU. Choices such as flashpoint Plastic Man and the Supergirl repaint are... intriguing. I think it might be a good idea at this point for Mattel to consider refresher cases of just Larfleezes and Red Robins.

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One of the issues causing the price of all of Mattel's and Hasbro's products to increase is increase in minimum wages in China. Factor that in with the ever increasing price of petroleum and prices are going to go up. That is just from a production standpoint. On the domestic front, gas prices cause havoc on the cost of distribution. We may not like these price increases, but that is the reality of doing business. Just think about it, when Toybiz was in their prime, a gallon of gas averaged $1.00-1.25, a gallon of milk cost under $2.00, you could find candy bars and cans of soda for $.50.

 

Exactly. Speaking of which, if major toy companies bring toy manufacturing to the US, toy prices will increase even more.

That is true that if these were made in the US, they would probably cost double to triple what they cost due to unionized labor. The simple fact is China's minimum wage went from the equivalent of $1.05 up to $3.20 a day. Any business that is forced to more than triple their payroll will pass those cost on to the consumers. While it is easy to scream that Mattel and Hasbro are greedy and don't care about the fan base that collects the figures they produce, many people overlook all of the factors causing the price increases. BBTS has wave 1 up for preorder for $17.99 each or $69.99 for four (or $17.50 each), that tells me that these will probably be showing up at Target and Walmart for $14.99 or $15.99. Everyone is so quick to jump the gun and assume these will be $20, and maybe at TRU or the last few Kmarts they will be. I am not making any excuses for either of the big two toy companies, but the whole corporate greed angle just played out. Mattel will eventually offer these on Mattycollector for their suggested retail, and Hasbro offers suggested retail through HTS so their is opportunity to pay that price. Factor in the $3-4 dollars a gallon people spend going to the store looking for these versus the cost to have them shipped to their home, and they have to make decide which makes more sense to them.

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People people.....gas or oil has never had that much of an influance on the price of plastic. If this were true then the price of ALL THINGS PLASTIC would have steadily increased over the decades the way they have the last few years. Don't you find it odd that around the same time the 70ies & 80ies era are found to be cash cows....toys based of their continuity suddenly experiance. 50-100% price hike? There are no coincidances. If anything China getting a minium wage for the 1st time in history has more to do with price increase that "big oil".

 

Maybe you should explain that to the people who are constantly going "WAAAA! How is gas $3 a gallon and my figure costs $20! WAAAA!"

 

And yes, payroll is a company killer, something else you should explain to everyone else.

 

The DC lic is the real culprit here. That & the unending demand for more POA & a sculpt that won't be compromised by said POA. Mattel has had it with unrealistic demands from fans. On one hand they wax poetic about the "good ol days" when toys were "good"....yet they seem to forget that toys were also no where near as detailed as todays (altho there are some exceptions).

 

Face it.....big oil is or was just an excuse thought up by either fans wanting to justify forking out crazy amounts of money for toys they want & not feeling like a fool for having done so......or the toy companies themself.

 

 

Oil is part of it. Is it the biggest part of it? Probably not. Especially when, as you pointed out, DC can pretty much charge whatever they want for the rights.

 

Face it.....big oil is or was just an excuse thought up by either fans wanting to justify forking out crazy amounts of money for toys they want & not feeling like a fool for having done so......or the toy companies themself.

 

Going with the former. And I'll give you a negative for it. Remember, attaching a negative doesn't make it any less true.

 

But there are so many problems with collecting right now the bottom line is it's a bad time to sell and collect action figures.

 

Think I'm wrong.......then I invite you to take a trip down the K.O. toy ile. Big ass boxes of trucks....farm equipment.....municipale vehicles.......millitary convoys.......huge bags of army men! & all for under $20 per set! No lic.....no price hike. & no lame excuse about big oil.

 

Not sure that's the best example but again, yes, licenses for popular products are expensive.

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It dosen't really matter why prices go up, does it? They do, and we as collectors have to decide whether little plastic men are worth the new price.

 

Me personally, I've always said when that SRP hits $20 for a single, I'm done. We're not their yet (excpt Young Justice), so I'm okay for now.

 

It's just a matter of what its worth to you.

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