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they are killing the line look at scrap iron,Steeler,destro hawk & beaker they just dont care about anything they are doing to the Characters. they are just doing what they want and thats it. they just stick them in here or there and thats it. this is not joe anymore!! it is A team, Mask and a few other toons/toys/tv wrapped in to this crap. the only reason i saw the new on was cuse my bud was over and he likes it but said that they are messing up a few of Characters he loves.

 

now we have the noks as urban cowboys come on this is so bad. i dont watch it unless my bud comes over and asks me to but this is the worse toon by far i bet they rip off SW next. also roc was not joe either it was just a action movie with joe name. hasbro even said roc sucked and they could do better. so we will see what joe 2 brings but i wont see it unless the trailers are really good. if renegades is the best they can do joe 2 will suck too. hey if ppl like it cool im not saying that u should like what i like in any way. for me this is how i see the toon and movie.

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To be completely fair? I didn't hate it. It definitely seems that they are shooting for a younger audience and also de-aging the entire cast (aside from General Abernathy) quite a bit. A lot of the ch

Ugh! Did the GI Joe premise really need to be re-worked and twisted into a cheap A-Team knock-off?   Why does Tunnel Rat have a Skrull chin?

I like it....#US1#

I don't unsdersatnd why duke is lower in Rank then Flint,Scarlet and Lady J

 

If this is how GI Joe got started why is he lower in rank?

 

 

Dude, it's not how GiJoe got started.. it is a completely different story... like an alternate universe.. where crazy stupid crap happens.

 

Duke is a punk rebel that isn't as good as Flint at anything.

Flint is the man. He totally owns Duke.

Lady Jaye is a fiery latina street girl.

Dr.Mindbender is a little jerkass kid.

Baroness is a boring stiff old b****... she has a terrible lesbo haircut and she ISN'T hot.

Cobra Commander is the phantom of the opera.

Storm Shadow is a completely annoying asshat.

Breaker is a British cybernerd hacker dork.

etc etc etc

 

the only characters I think they have done well are Scarlet, Snake Eyes, Major Bludd, possibly Roadblock (even though he is very different, he still captures some of the same essence) and Destro (who we haven't seen much of)... and to a lesser extent, Tunnelrat.

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I don't unsdersatnd why duke is lower in Rank then Flint,Scarlet and Lady J

 

If this is how GI Joe got started why is he lower in rank?

 

 

Dude, it's not how GiJoe got started.. it is a completely different story... like an alternate universe.. where crazy stupid crap happens.

 

Duke is a punk rebel that isn't as good as Flint at anything.

Flint is the man. He totally owns Duke.

Lady Jaye is a fiery latina street girl.

Dr.Mindbender is a little jerkass kid.

Baroness is a boring stiff old b****... she has a terrible lesbo haircut and she ISN'T hot.

Cobra Commander is the phantom of the opera.

Storm Shadow is a completely annoying asshat.

Breaker is a British cybernerd hacker dork.

etc etc etc

 

the only characters I think they have done well are Scarlet, Snake Eyes, Major Bludd, possibly Roadblock (even though he is very different, he still captures some of the same essence) and Destro (who we haven't seen much of)... and to a lesser extent, Tunnelrat.

 

I had heard that this was supposed to be the story of how GI Joe got started

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well they they wouldnt be on the run like the ateam. lets face it joe has gone down the tubes with all these reboots. what they did in the 80s worked why cant they just update it not reboot it every few yrs. i know the kids are not like how we where but why cant they just bulid on what is already there. i dont get it. it feels like the 90s all over agin just with out the neon colors well for the toons any way .

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I love it!! But i don't have the connection with Gi Joe that many of you have .This cartoon is the first of gi joe that i will come to know.I have my complaints but i still enjoy watching it. I do hope to see Serpentor at some point.He is really the only one that stood out for me back in the day.I do gotta say boy are the joes lucky to have snake eyes,lol. I mean without him they would be cannon fodder for sure.Does he always save the day in the comics and other series?? its kinda getting old,lol. I guess he is like marvel's Wolverine.Roadblock FTW!!I love him. He kicked butt in this last episode!! I was kinda on the edge of my seat with this last episode.

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Lotsa cranky fans on this board... really makes it hard to post.

 

I'm as big a Joe fan as you can find. The show is awesome, and I'm loving how they're reintroducing everyone. Reboots are the nature of corporate Franchises. You simply have to accept that (or ignore everything that isn't 25 years old).

 

And for this incarnation of GIJoe, yes a lot of inspiration comes from the A-Team concept... but it's done thru a decidedly Joe themed filter.

 

I am digging all the cameos, I'm enjoying seeing this new universe unfold from the beginning. Far too many continuities have begun in media res and it's nice to get some origins for the bad guys. Major Bludd's eyepatch, Scrap-Iron's scars... I just hope Destro's mask isn't a movie-inspired thing. Lots of the Snakes-Eyes/Storm Shadow origin was straight from the comics, with a little more logic and the inclusion of Jinx... all of which work for me.

 

Curmudgeonly nostalgic fans may not dig it, but I sure do!

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hey if ppl like it cool. if we all liked the same thing it would get real boring. i dont mine reboots but not when they rip off a tv show or other things to make a show about joe. thats why i hated roc. they could easily use what is already there and just do the origins not as the ateam / mask & other things . joe was the best thing ever cuse it was one of a kind. now it is a Frankenstein of so much other stuff its not joe just in the name. to me anyway for you guys agin that like it cool.

 

i just think they could do so much better and joe needs something to bring the fans together not split it up they havent learned that yet. in the 80s we all where on the same page and loved it now we have been split cuse of all the changes and revamps to the line its not joe any more but in name only. if it gets kids involved wit joe for more then a yr cool if not then they will revamp it agin.

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Well from my pov GI Joe didn't need a reboot it not tired or boring like Star Trek became

 

 

I'm not sure if you guys saying that understand the reasoning behind this.

 

Just making new episodes of the old cartoon makes no sense from a broadcaster's POV.

Why should they spend money (around $6,000,000) to make "new" episodes of what is the same kind of show, then they could just re-run the originals for about $250,000 for ALL of them?? If audiences really want to see the same thing over and over again.......why make any new material at all.

Just run the old shows ad nauseum and save the $$$.

 

Believe it or not, all the old artwork and materials likely do not actually belong to Hasbro, they probably belong to the animation studios that produced the work. Its not just a matter of picking up a pencil and re-starting the shows from where they left off.....all of the material will have to be regenerated from scratch.

Most creators are not jazzed by the idea of riding on someone else's coat-tails.

 

That means its going to likely look different anyways...........so why should it not be its own animal, rather than something from 30 years ago. And if its going to LOOK different now........why not do a different premise at the same time?

 

A character like Batman changed in cartoons over the course of the past 20 years, in many respects. This was done deliberately to keep the character from becoming stale.

The same reasoning is behind the changes in each new incarnation of GIJOE--they want to keep it fresh over time.

 

Besides, if the perennial argument is that the cartoons are meant to attract kids to the brand, or a new younger audience at least.......how many kids are keen to watch shows that their parents watched?

Kids like to have something to call their own and that is what Renegades/Sigma Six et al are supposed to be.

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I think I wouldn't mind the changes if I actually liked the show... I did at the beginning, but now it's just kind of boring. The storyline has really stalled in my opinion. But I am still tivo-ing it.

 

It's definitely not as good as the other new cartoons: Young Justice and Avengers

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Well from my pov GI Joe didn't need a reboot it not tired or boring like Star Trek became

 

 

I'm not sure if you guys saying that understand the reasoning behind this.

 

Just making new episodes of the old cartoon makes no sense from a broadcaster's POV.

Why should they spend money (around $6,000,000) to make "new" episodes of what is the same kind of show, then they could just re-run the originals for about $250,000 for ALL of them?? If audiences really want to see the same thing over and over again.......why make any new material at all.

Just run the old shows ad nauseum and save the $$$.

 

Believe it or not, all the old artwork and materials likely do not actually belong to Hasbro, they probably belong to the animation studios that produced the work. Its not just a matter of picking up a pencil and re-starting the shows from where they left off.....all of the material will have to be regenerated from scratch.

Most creators are not jazzed by the idea of riding on someone else's coat-tails.

 

That means its going to likely look different anyways...........so why should it not be its own animal, rather than something from 30 years ago. And if its going to LOOK different now........why not do a different premise at the same time?

 

A character like Batman changed in cartoons over the course of the past 20 years, in many respects. This was done deliberately to keep the character from becoming stale.

The same reasoning is behind the changes in each new incarnation of GIJOE--they want to keep it fresh over time.

 

Besides, if the perennial argument is that the cartoons are meant to attract kids to the brand, or a new younger audience at least.......how many kids are keen to watch shows that their parents watched?

Kids like to have something to call their own and that is what Renegades/Sigma Six et al are supposed to be.

 

 

Well I never said for it to be a continuation

 

BTW is it possible to do a cartoon with the same animation now? Lets just say they had permission.Do you think the way it was animated back then still could be done exactly the same?I ask you because you know animation

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Well I never said for it to be a continuation

 

BTW is it possible to do a cartoon with the same animation now? Lets just say they had permission.Do you think the way it was animated back then still could be done exactly the same?I ask you because you know animation

 

 

Why should they want to??

 

 

There's the answer to your question right there.

Technically speaking, they could do it the same way, but why?

 

There's cartoons that are still being done traditionally, that is to say just like the original Sunbow GIJOE cartoon-but almost always with digital ink and paint now. The Sunbow cartoon was done with xeroxed cels and hand painted.

Why go backwards?

The Sunbow cartoon is.........quaint. Actually, its awful--its looks VERY dated now. There's more sophisticated storytelling in animation now, more technical freedoms--why not use those? The original cartoons treated a LOT of things in a very cheezy way, simply for economy reasons ( speed and ease of production) and because it was cheaper.

Frankly, if they can do things differently now, why not do the whole thing differently, and tell a different premise to boot?

 

Re-doing the show the way it was done back then......if getting "permission" is the impetus to do so, means trying to track down ALL of that previously used material. One reason for that is to see if they can save money.

A $6,000,000 budget (an example) for an action adventure series is on the low side-so even if the budget climbs to 8 mil, or more they are still going to want to save bucks where they can. More money saved means they can pay talent more ( because such shows are VERY difficult to produce) and attract more skilled talent to do the works.

( believe it or not, but many artists in the animation biz shun projects like GIJOE because its a LOT of work to draw, and very fun find ANY fun in drawing things like HISS Tanks etc)

Using material from the old show can save drawing time, thus save production time and spare artists unneeded work.

 

BUT.......a lot of that material is gone. Most of it is likely destroyed or damaged beyond repair or use. A small amount of it is in the hands of collectors.

So that means most of it would have to be redone from scratch. If they are going to draw it all over again......why not draw it different and explore a different style or a different premise?

 

Every cartoon, except for only one that I know of, that has ever stopped (been cancelled) and then returned again has been done differently the next time ( that "only one" being Futurama--after a year long hiatus. Its not so much another version of the show as it is a continuation.).

 

If they revisit a cartoon, they do a different take on it, if for no other reason that to make it interesting to work on, and to not just rehash the same thing that was done before.

 

Think of those cartoons that have been done over again.........Jonny Quest has come back about 3-4 times now--each time differently. Scooby Doo------every time its something different. Not necessarily better, but certainly different.

Batman........how many incarnations have we seen? Spider-man? Superman? Flintstones?? Ninja Turtles? Power Rangers?

Always different the next time around.

 

That's it.

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You are right ARROW.. different doesn't mean better or worse.. necessarily..

 

but somethings were good the first time around, and don't need to be changed. for instance, I think we would be hard pressed to find anybody that thought this version of the Dreadnoks are better than the originals. They just weren't very cool or even menacing. They were just lame, especially Zartan. Zartan went from a mysterious badass to some cheeseball dork that I wouldn't be afraid of in a dark alley. It's just very difficult to understand why they strayed so far from a character in this instance (he also didn't resemble the movie version at all.. so it's weird).

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i just think they could do so much better and joe needs something to bring the fans together not split it up they havent learned that yet. in the 80s we all where on the same page and loved it

 

We were all on the same page, for the most part, because the majority of us Joe fans (going purely off of this site's demographic) were children and easier to please. As a collective of adult collectors, we are a bitchy and fickle lot. Everyone here doesn't like the original cartoon. Same goes for the Marvel comic. When Joe came back in earlier 2000 - split reviews. All the way through VvV, SpyTroops, etc. Many hated Sigma 6 and others warmed up to it and hated to see it go.

 

Plenty of negativity was heard amidst the shock and awe of the awesomeness that was the 25th Anniversary. The movie definitely brought mixed reviews. Mixed in with first Devil's Due and then IDW getting the comic publishing rights. POC wasn't wanted at all, but now is praised by many. While others wish 25th would have made all 300+ Joes from the original collection.

 

My point? Just in the last decade we have seen countless reboots, reinventions, rehashes, trips down nostalgia lane, and plenty of head scratchers. This vision of Joe won't leave a foot print in the sand much longer than anything else. And it seems the trend in most new cartoons is to never go over 3 or 4 seasons.

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I prefer the new Avengers cartoon type animation to any other style. It's better than the old sunbow animation and better than CGI.

 

The GIJOE Renegades animation is OK. It's not as good as Avengers, but it's getting the job done. Some of the fight scenes have looked beautiful in this style. Really, once I got used to the look of the characters at the beginning, then there has been no further issue with the GIJOE Renegades animation.

 

The more important part of doing good script writing and story flow is being done terrific. It's so well done, that I'm enjoying the GIJOE episodes even more than Avengers! Snake Eyes kicks so much butt.

 

Renegades is my #1... ##1#

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Well I never said for it to be a continuation

 

BTW is it possible to do a cartoon with the same animation now? Lets just say they had permission.Do you think the way it was animated back then still could be done exactly the same?I ask you because you know animation

 

 

Why should they want to??

 

 

There's the answer to your question right there.

Technically speaking, they could do it the same way, but why?

 

There's cartoons that are still being done traditionally, that is to say just like the original Sunbow GIJOE cartoon-but almost always with digital ink and paint now. The Sunbow cartoon was done with xeroxed cels and hand painted.

Why go backwards?

The Sunbow cartoon is.........quaint. Actually, its awful--its looks VERY dated now. There's more sophisticated storytelling in animation now, more technical freedoms--why not use those? The original cartoons treated a LOT of things in a very cheezy way, simply for economy reasons ( speed and ease of production) and because it was cheaper.

Frankly, if they can do things differently now, why not do the whole thing differently, and tell a different premise to boot?

 

Re-doing the show the way it was done back then......if getting "permission" is the impetus to do so, means trying to track down ALL of that previously used material. One reason for that is to see if they can save money.

A $6,000,000 budget (an example) for an action adventure series is on the low side-so even if the budget climbs to 8 mil, or more they are still going to want to save bucks where they can. More money saved means they can pay talent more ( because such shows are VERY difficult to produce) and attract more skilled talent to do the works.

( believe it or not, but many artists in the animation biz shun projects like GIJOE because its a LOT of work to draw, and very fun find ANY fun in drawing things like HISS Tanks etc)

Using material from the old show can save drawing time, thus save production time and spare artists unneeded work.

 

BUT.......a lot of that material is gone. Most of it is likely destroyed or damaged beyond repair or use. A small amount of it is in the hands of collectors.

So that means most of it would have to be redone from scratch. If they are going to draw it all over again......why not draw it different and explore a different style or a different premise?

 

Every cartoon, except for only one that I know of, that has ever stopped (been cancelled) and then returned again has been done differently the next time ( that "only one" being Futurama--after a year long hiatus. Its not so much another version of the show as it is a continuation.).

 

If they revisit a cartoon, they do a different take on it, if for no other reason that to make it interesting to work on, and to not just rehash the same thing that was done before.

 

Think of those cartoons that have been done over again.........Jonny Quest has come back about 3-4 times now--each time differently. Scooby Doo------every time its something different. Not necessarily better, but certainly different.

Batman........how many incarnations have we seen? Spider-man? Superman? Flintstones?? Ninja Turtles? Power Rangers?

Always different the next time around.

 

That's it.

 

 

It was out of curiosity ...Plus I don't know why everybody wants change all the time.I think it would be cool to have the same animation as we once had

 

Only some characters don't loose ther looks.Disney ,Some Warner Bros and Hanna Barbera.I would of loved for once to had seen the Joes back in their origional look

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I'm as big a Joe fan as you can find. The show is awesome, and I'm loving how they're reintroducing everyone. Reboots are the nature of corporate Franchises. You simply have to accept that (or ignore everything that isn't 25 years old).

 

Same here. I loved the original toon. If you're going to watch the show and compare every element to the origial and check off all the ways in which it's not the same, you're probably never going to like anything new. Heck, you probably won't like anything new from GI Joe again. You have to take it for what it is. I took ROC for what it was and concluded that it sucked. I'm taking Renegades for what it is and am finding that I'm liking it...the stories, the action, and the animation--looks a lot better in motion than seeing still character shots. They have definately gone in directions I would not have in some cases (young Dr. Mindbender? Yuck) but overall I'm enjoying seeing GI Joe in cartoon form again.

 

Oh and, for better or worse, I have never seen a single episode of the A Team, haven't seen last year's movie, I have no idea what the A Team is about. All I know is Mr. T was in it. Maybe that helps me.

 

On a related note, I found a 30 ft HDMI cord at a pawn shop, the same one we sell at Home Depot for $90, twenty bucks! (I'm sure there are a good many Home Depot items at the pawn shop, but that's another story). Now I can watch Joe on my 42'' TV from my computer. It's a big deal for me.

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Only some characters don't loose ther looks.Disney ,Some Warner Bros and Hanna Barbera.I would of loved for once to had seen the Joes back in their origional look

 

Au contraire! Disney, Warners, H&B all evolved the looks of their characters considerably. Really look at how the Flintstones are drawn in their first seasons, compared to how there were drawn in Pebbles & Bam Bam, and then look at how they are drawn now. Bugs Bunny and crew have undergone many changes from his original days to the Chuck Jones cartoons, to how they are drawn in features like Space Jam.

 

And Mickey.......the official Disney Style guide (a SEVEN HUNDRED dollar book) has about 300 pages devoted to drawing the various Mickeys alone. There's been at least a dozen different looks over the past 80 years.

 

I don't think it necessarily takes an animator's eye to see the difference, but rest assured, they are there.

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Only some characters don't loose ther looks.Disney ,Some Warner Bros and Hanna Barbera.I would of loved for once to had seen the Joes back in their origional look

 

Au contraire! Disney, Warners, H&B all evolved the looks of their characters considerably. Really look at how the Flintstones are drawn in their first seasons, compared to how there were drawn in Pebbles & Bam Bam, and then look at how they are drawn now. Bugs Bunny and crew have undergone many changes from his original days to the Chuck Jones cartoons, to how they are drawn in features like Space Jam.

 

And Mickey.......the official Disney Style guide (a SEVEN HUNDRED dollar book) has about 300 pages devoted to drawing the various Mickeys alone. There's been at least a dozen different looks over the past 80 years.

 

I don't think it necessarily takes an animator's eye to see the difference, but rest assured, they are there.

 

 

Yes but those characters don't stray too far away from their origional look.Take a look at Duke now to the origional animation.

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Yes but those characters don't stray too far away from their origional look.Take a look at Duke now to the origional animation.

 

But take a look at DIC Duke to Original design! Joe changed even back then.

 

Granted i see your point, and agree with to an extent. I don't like many of the designs on this show. However the Story has been tons better than Sigma six and i've gotten hooked. I hated sigma, and ROC but this gets me. I can see it has some unjoe qualities at the moment, but with flashbacks etc. it still has a very millitary feel, more so than Sigma Six had (always felt like super heroes to me.)

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they are killing the line look at scrap iron,Steeler,destro hawk & beaker they just dont care about anything they are doing to the Characters. they are just doing what they want and thats it. they just stick them in here or there and thats it. this is not joe anymore!! it is A team, Mask and a few other toons/toys/tv wrapped in to this crap. the only reason i saw the new on was cuse my bud was over and he likes it but said that they are messing up a few of Characters he loves.

 

now we have the noks as urban cowboys come on this is so bad...

 

Sometimes Megatron is a gun, sometimes a tank, sometimes a space jet, sometimes a dinosaur or dragon, but if they get the essence the character in there, it works and the toon can be enjoyable to watch!

 

James Bond gets rebooted with a new actor every 10 years, but they keep the essence of the character going.

 

With GIJOE, the number of changes you disagree with shouldn't ruin it. They've got quite a bit right on. Snake Eyes is more awesome than ever! The background story of the evil Ninja clan turning honorable under Hard Master through the influence of SE is better than ever and makes sense! That's just how I would want it. They've covered that SE is mute and has a scarred face, and a dojo log cabin. That's SE right on!

 

Breaker is different than V1, but considering computers weren't around back in the V1 days I like how they rebooted him to fit the times as a hacker. Squads don't have just one "radioman" like they used to. So, Breaker v1 had become totally irrelevant without change.

 

Destro in his civilian business MARS appearance so far looks just right in Character so far. He said that MARS will remain in the McCullen family and he won't sell out to COBRA. That's just right to me.

 

Major Bludd was really good. They even introduced an apparent eye injury at the end so he transforms into the Eye-patch Bludd. His character had a lot of great personality that really fits Bludd.

 

One of the more drastic changed characters is Dr. Mindbender. Although he's a hot-snot teenager, he's filling in the cutting edge COBRA scientist role. There's even room for him to take steroids and lose his hair to transform into the traditional look. Although, wouldn't you admit the old bare-chested cape thing is a little too flamboyant?

 

The only one that doesn't really work for me is Hawk. It's not ruining the show though. So, Hawk is George C. Scott Patton now. OK, roll with it. There's much more ON than OFF. B)

 

The A-team thing mixed in is just adding some awesome onto GIJOE, IMO. Also, COBRA being a vast financial evil empire is scary good and interesting.

 

The stories are great and all the characters have terrific personality and voice acting. The script writing has been terrific and better than Sunbow. I find it hard to believe that some people aren't enjoying this awesome Renegades show.

:wub:

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