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Superman Movie Coming December 2012 & Flash, Wonder Woman, Aquaman & More Soon To Follow


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Actually, if you read the post above yours it might explain why he doesn't pursue this.

 

I know, I've heard all the excuses.

 

And I'm not doing this to deride him ( though I have done a pretty good job of that, eh?) but rather to challenge him.

 

No-one REALLY knows what someone has until they step up to the plate--I have seen that before.

But just talking........means nothing. I've seen that a lot too.

The key is in doing.

 

Spielberg was a teen making movies with a Super-8 camera, and a bunch of scraps for props and costumes. He did not let a lack of budget get in the way of his efforts, and he made progress in learning about film that served him well when he got really serious about cinema in college.

 

Our friend Xorr here has not even done that with BETTER tools available for nothing, and yet claims he can do better than most.

 

Heh.............sure.

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You're insane. And I mean that quite literally. You're actually going to tell me I can create a Hollywood-level movie for under $1,000? The digital camera alone would cost that much, for a true, movie-quality one! How about paying all the actors, paying for costumes, paying to rent space to film in, getting permits to film outdoors, paying for CGI? I just paid $10 for a pack of 3 tube socks. How the hell am I going to buy custom made-costumes for hundreds of Asgardians for under $1,000?

 

What insane Bizarro World do you live on? Tell me how to get there. I could probably retire and live like a king on a month's salary, in your strange world.

 

Excuses........excuses................

 

 

No, your point proved you are out of your mind, nothing more. If you believe you can outfit a cast of hundreds of characters with custom costumes and props and get a film camera and pay everyone and cover every other production cost for under $1,000, then you are certifiably insane. Yeah, I can make an "acclaimed film" with 4 characters tromping through the woods in blue jeans and t-shirts and have 4 friends play the lead roles and it would cost next to nothing. But I'm not trying to do a crappy home-made style Blair Witch Project piece of garbage. We're talking about doing a major studio-style movie here, in case you haven't been paying attention (and clearly you haven't).

 

Or maybe it's just that you cannot comprehend the amount of work needed to make Thor and all of Asgard come to life. If that were possible, why would Marvel studios spent tens of millions of dollars making their movies? Why not just do it with under $1,000? You are so screwy, really!

 

More excuses.........always excuses.

 

Here's a freebie.......an abbreviation: CGI. Run with it.

 

 

That's not the problem. Maybe you needed to do all that. I don't. I have the skills. I don't need to read books on film and directing.

 

What I need is a budget that can allow me to accomplish what I envision and prove those skills. And no human being could do that for under $1,000. Hell, no human being could do that for under $10,000,000!

 

ROTFLMAO!

 

If you cannot make an effective film for $1000, what the hell is $10,000,000 going to do for you?

Nothing.

 

 

Well, Mr. Genius, since you have so loudly trumpeted your superiority and your so-awe-inspiring sacrifice of reading hundreds of pages of books, and since you're been in the "biz" for all of 20 years now, where is your magnum opus? Surely in the course of 20 years, you could have saved up $1,000.

 

Put your money where your mouth is or shut up.

 

Hey, I've got a resume' of over 100 animated projects under my belt.

 

Wanna see it??

 

I've storyboarded for almost 20 years now, working on all manner of tv show, from pre-school to action adventure. I've written and re-written material for cartoons. I've worked for Disney, Dreamworks, Hanna Barbera, Cartoon Network, Warner Bros.

Want some shows? Ren & Stimpy, Freakazoid, Action Man, Reboot, Baby Huey, Chaotic, Class of the Titans, 101 Dalmatians-series, Batman the animated series, Johnny Bravo,

 

Do you understand what storyboarding is? The storyboard artist is the guy that figures out all the shots, sets the staging, decides the action. They determine what the characters do, and how they do it. A director is too busy supervising a production at the stage a board is done, so the storyboard artist essentially directs the show.

 

Yea, that's what I do.

 

That money enough for your mouth?

 

 

Like I said, hotshot, you show me how I can obtain filming rights, pay for people to travel to filming sites, pay for hundreds of custom costumes and props, pay for a high quality camera, pay for CGI software, hire people who are wizzes at CGI and computer stuff, and cover all the other expenses of a major film project. Can't happen. If that were true, Marvel would not have to spend tens of millions of dollars on their movies. Your claim is absurd and idiotic. Maybe you're just jealous because you feel that after spending years scouring flea markets and garage sales to find cheap books on film making and supposedly spending 20 years in the field, you have not created anything of value. Don't translate your own personal failure onto me and claim I'm lazy simply because you failed in life. And don't insult anyone's intelligence by making idiotic claims that anyone can film a Thor movie on under $1,000. The Blair Witch Project was 4 kids in the woods in jeans and t-shirts and it cost them $22,000 to film it! And that was over a decade ago, when things were cheaper.

 

Get off your high horse and get real.

 

You want me to show you........and I can, you can fork over $10,000--cuz that is what they ding ya for film school. That's a cheap rate too, the one I used to teach at--Vancouver Film School--asks for about $35,000 USD. Think of it as a cut-rate for TNI members.

 

Now, if you knew what you were talking about......you'd understand that making a movie isn't all about the budget, or the flash and dazzle. That is what idiots think movies are about.

 

30-40 years ago, they used a lot of slight-of hand to make movies.....and they were often quite effective IN SPITE of the limitations.

The technology today, that you can access for nothing, can allow you to do better than that kind of film making of the past. You can do it with a $250 camera, and $300 in lights.

The rest is in how clever you use your staging, your cutting, your pacing etc.

 

But like I said........you claimed to "know all this", but its obvious you don't.

 

Keep making those excuses though.

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Oh, and I stand corrected. The Blair Witch Project cost somewhere over $30,000 just to film. For those of you who don't know about The Blair Witch Project, it was an independent film done by a couple of amateurs using a shaky hand-cam. It had just a few characters, all dressed in every-day clothing, tromping though the woods. Many scenes were simply black...no visuals at all. And for all its simplicity, it cost over $30,000 to film. There were no custom costumes, no extras, no custom props, no CGI, no FX, no sets or stages, no equipment. In other words, nothing that you'd need to do a high-quality superhero movie. Thor's costume alone would cost over $1,000, if you wanted it to look good.

 

So anyone claiming that someone can make a superhero movie for under $1,000 is quite literally delusional.

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Oh, and I stand corrected. The Blair Witch Project cost somewhere over $30,000 just to film. For those of you who don't know about The Blair Witch Project, it was an independent film done by a couple of amateurs using a shaky hand-cam. It had just a few characters, all dressed in every-day clothing, tromping though the woods. Many scenes were simply black...no visuals at all. And for all its simplicity, it cost over $30,000 to film. There were no custom costumes, no extras, no custom props, no CGI, no FX, no sets or stages, no equipment. In other words, nothing that you'd need to do a high-quality superhero movie. Thor's costume alone would cost over $1,000, if you wanted it to look good.

 

So anyone claiming that someone can make a superhero movie for under $1,000 is quite literally delusional.

 

They didn't use a digital camera though, did they?

It wasn't done with video, they used a film camera, which means they not only had to pay for the stock, but also the processing and editing for chemical film--which costs a lot. They also auditioned and HIRED actors under pay for the film's principal roles. They placed ads for auditions/casting calls in magazines. That costs money too.

 

You do not have to do that, if you are savvy.

You can film with a digital camera, staging the shots for effectiveness.

If you understand cinema, you don't need to show everything literally--suggestion can play an effective role. Think Daredevil, not Thor. Filming at night gives you more options--which is why so many superhero films are set at night. Light equals costs.

Storyboarding and shot planning saves you time and effort. Cutting an animatic and inserting shot footage into it creates a "living reel" that saves you time in the editing suite.

Make-up effects can be done for dollars, special effects can be done in computer, so can post and sound.

You don't need permits if you shoot discretely with permission on private property.

 

 

Can you do alot more for millions?? Sure, throwing money at it can make a heckuva movie, or a piece of crap.

 

Can you do a lot more for nothing? Yes, you can?

Think that's a delusion?

Only if you do not know what you are doing.

 

Xorr, if you think you need millions to do a superhero movie, you CLEARLY do not know what you are doing or talking about.

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Arrow wrote:

 

Excuses........excuses................

 

No, simply acknowledging reality. Something that obviously eludes you.

 

More excuses.........always excuses.

 

Here's a freebie.......an abbreviation: CGI. Run with it.

 

Maybe you're a bit behind the times, but CGI isn't cheap. I have no computer skills. I'd need to hire someone to do the CGI, although I could supervise it. And that means paying someone enough money to dedicate the amount of time and work needed. You won't find anyone with those skills for under $1,000.

 

If you cannot make an effective film for $1000, what the hell is $10,000,000 going to do for you?

Nothing.

 

Reading Comp 101. I never said $10,000,000 is going to do anything for me. I said I doubted anyone could do a proper Thor movie even for that amount, much less your ridiculous claim of under $1,000. Try paying attention.

 

Hey, I've got a resume' of over 100 animated projects under my belt.

 

Wanna see it??

 

Yeah, I'd like to see one Spiderman or Iron Man level movie you've produced, directed, and released. And I want to see all the financial statements from it too, so we can see how Mr. Hollywood produced a masterpiece for under $1,000.

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I've storyboarded for almost 20 years now, working on all manner of tv show, from pre-school to action adventure. I've written and re-written material for cartoons. I've worked for Disney, Dreamworks, Hanna Barbera, Cartoon Network, Warner Bros.

Want some shows? Ren & Stimpy, Freakazoid, Action Man, Reboot, Baby Huey, Chaotic, Class of the Titans, 101 Dalmatians-series, Batman the animated series, Johnny Bravo,

 

And the janitor worked at those studios as well. Big deal. What movie have you directed and produced that was so wonderful on such a low budget of $1,000? Assuming you're not lying about your experience, you should know that it takes far more than $1,000 to produce a single episode of a cartoon. A live action feature film featuring tons of extras and actors and costumes and props and what not would cost far more.

 

Do you understand what storyboarding is? The storyboard artist is the guy that figures out all the shots, sets the staging, decides the action. They determine what the characters do, and how they do it. A director is too busy supervising a production at the stage a board is done, so the storyboard artist essentially directs the show.

 

Yeah, I know all about storyboarding. I'd need to hire an artist. I'm lucky I can draw stick figures. Find me an artist for under $1,000.

 

That money enough for your mouth?

 

All that tells us is that you do storyboards. Maybe you're simply not talented enough to go beyond that and actually direct or produce a movie. Maybe that's where your vitriol comes from. In any case, until you can show us how you propose to produce a feature-length superhero movie like Thor for under $1,000, and until you explain the costs dollar by dollar, you're full of #$##.

 

You want me to show you........and I can, you can fork over $10,000--cuz that is what they ding ya for film school. That's a cheap rate too, the one I used to teach at--Vancouver Film School--asks for about $35,000 USD. Think of it as a cut-rate for TNI members.

 

I don't know how to explain this to you any clearer than I already have. I don't need film school. I can make a great superhero movie. I just need the funds.

 

Now, if you knew what you were talking about......you'd understand that making a movie isn't all about the budget, or the flash and dazzle. That is what idiots think movies are about.

 

Obviously it's not about the flash and CGI. It needs a good story. It needs good pacing and good camera work. And good editing. Which were my complaints about the first Xmen movie (beyond just the terrible silly costumes and all that nonsense). The fight scenes were poorly filmed, indecipherable messes that looked like it was filmed by a drunk guy with Parkinson's. The cuts and editing were sloppy and irritating. Yeah, I know there's a lot more to a film than FX. Which is why Iron Man II did not hold up. It was all about CGI.

 

30-40 years ago, they used a lot of slight-of hand to make movies.....and they were often quite effective IN SPITE of the limitations.

 

And we both know damned well that if I did a Thor movie using the style or limitations of 30-40 years ago, everyone would call it amateur crap. We have a certain level of quality to attain. The bar is higher. After Spiderman and Iron Man, no one is going to call my Thor movie a success if it looks like Roger Corman's FF movie.

 

The technology today, that you can access for nothing, can allow you to do better than that kind of film making of the past. You can do it with a $250 camera, and $300 in lights.The rest is in how clever you use your staging, your cutting, your pacing etc.

 

Again, you're insane. I can't make the entire movie CGI. And if I did, I'd need someone with the skills of the guys at ILM to pull it off. That costs lots of money. There has to be live actors in real costumes holding real props. To put Thor, Odin, Loki, and Sif in a costume would cost tens of thousands of dollars, unless I was married to a master seamstress, which I'm not.

 

But like I said........you claimed to "know all this", but its obvious you don't.

 

Wrong as usual.

 

I did notice that while you were busy running your mouth and bragging about all your less-than-impressive credentials, you have in fact failed to show us your magnum opus that cost you "under $1,000" to produce. Could that be because in 20 years of being in the industry, you have failed to do so? Or is it because you know your claim is absurd and insane?

 

And I noticed that while you were busy throwing out your shoulder patting yourself on the back for doing rough cartoon sketches, you failed to explain how anyone can afford a Thor movie on under $1,000. You're telling me that I can film a movie as good as Spiderman or Iron Man with a $250 camera? My damned cell phone costs more than that for Christ's sake! And that's just a 3.2 megapixel piece of crap. You're insane. But let's humor you for sake of argument. Let's assume your claim that I can produce a Hollywood level movie with a $250 camera and $300 in lights. Ok. Fine. That's $550. How about these costs?

 

Hiring actors

Paying for custom made costumes

Paying for someone to manage the CGI

Travel expenses

Hiring an artist to do storyboards

Paying for props

Paying for animal handlers

Paying for music

 

You're gonna try telling me you can do all that for $450? I defy you to find me someone who can produce a Hollywood-quality Thor costume alone for under $1,000. Look at this craptastic costume for Batman that was originally $1,000 and was marked down to $800:

 

Crappy Batman Costume

 

Are you still gonna repeat your asinine claim that I can produce a Thor movie for under $1,000? Do you even understand what I'm talking about? Take Iron Man, ratchet it up tenfold, that's what I'd be doing. No Blair Witch Project crap.

 

And you still have not addressed that issue. If it cost them $30,000 to do the Blair Witch Project, how can one do a Thor movie set mainly in Asgard for under $1,000? You have no idea what you're talking about.

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I did notice that while you were busy running your mouth and bragging about all your less-than-impressive credentials, you have in fact failed to show us your magnum opus that cost you "under $1,000" to produce. Could that be because in 20 years of being in the industry, you have failed to do so? Or is it because you know your claim is absurd and insane?

 

Why should I make a film myself, when I WORK FOR PAY on films??

Its my JOB.

 

 

Who says I have to make a magnus opus either? Where do you get these bizarre standards you hold people by??

Oh, that's right...........you don't know anything about the craft or the business, so you cannot be expected to know what people actually do in it.

You've never generated a single frame of film IN YOUR LIFE, right?

 

Let's turn the question around: why have you not saved your money to make this film you claim you can make? Even for $50,000. You can save money, you can get a loan, you can get funds. A guy with such passion.....such vision....

 

 

Yeah, I know all about storyboarding. I'd need to hire an artist. I'm lucky I can draw stick figures. Find me an artist for under $1,000.

 

 

Yea, yea, more excuses.

Write a one page script.....just a vignette, a section of a story........ then stage it with stick figures ( Spielberg cannot draw, and yet he does boards this way), that is all you need. Label it, show the camera moves and transitions. It should take you a couple of evenings work, at most.

 

Then scan it and post it here.

 

We'll see if you know anything about storyboarding.

Or just more excuses.

 

 

Heck, I can storyboard it for $1000, but you'd better DAMN well know what you are doing because I WILL call you on it. ;)

You will not get a better offer than that anywhere.

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Arrow wrote:

 

They didn't use a digital camera though, did they?

It wasn't done with video, they used a film camera, which means they not only had to pay for the stock, but also the processing and editing for chemical film--which costs a lot. They also auditioned and HIRED actors under pay for the film's principal roles. They placed ads for auditions/casting calls in magazines. That costs money too.

 

And I would likewise have to pay actors to play the roles! I can't get Bob from accounting to play Thor for free! We'd need someone to play, at the very minimum...

 

Thor

Odin

Loki

Sif

Balder

Heimdall

Hogun

Fandral

Volstagg

 

That's 9 actors. If we paid them each a paltry $100 for the entire time they worked on the film, that's $900 of that ridiculous $1,000 budget you claimed! Add the $250 for the digital camera you claim can make Hollywood level prints, and that's well above your $1,000 budget already. Add the $300 in lights you specify and the total comes to $1,450. And remember, that's assuming you can find and hire actors willing to work for a fraction of minimum wage (I mean minimum wage as in McDonald's jobs, not the standard actor's guild pay). An SAG (Screen Actors Guild) extra gets $130 minimum for a day's work. So let's be even a tad more realistic and say we hire those 9 actors not at half the rate of flipping burgers at McDonald's, but rather at the lowest minimum standard that extras get paid. That means we're paying the actors $1,170. On top of the $250 for the camera and $300 for lights, which comes to a total of almost $1,720. Far more than $1,000. And that's for one day's work on the film.

 

And of course, we're not hiring extras for the main roles! We need real actors who can act. They cost well over $2,600 per week. Multiply that times our 9 actors over the course of at least 8 weeks of shooting and we get...$187,200. Throw in a some extras (say a dozen) and that adds $1,560 per day to the costs. So that brings the total up to about (assuming just 10 days of extras out of those 8 weeks) $202,800. Oh, plus the $250 for the camera and the $300 for lights. So make that $203,350. Only about a quarter million dollars, or 203 times as much money as you claim is needed.

 

Add to that the cost of wardrobe, stuntmen (are you gonna claim we can do a Thor movie with no stunt extras?), trainers (the actors gotta learn how to fight with Asgardian swords, etc), music, etc...how much does that cost? And, Mr. Expert, how much do you get paid to do storyboards for a feature-length movie? Because I certainly need an artist who can do the storyboards. Maybe you can work cheap for me, since you believe in cheap. And what about animal trainers? Asgardians ride horses.

 

The wardrobe alone would cost tens of thousands! Try pricing movie quality costumes sometime. If we used crap like that Batman one I linked to earlier, even that would cost me $7,200 just to dress the 9 main actors. Say $2,000 more for the extra bit actors. We're now up to $212,550 not including paying someone to do the computer CGI stuff, the storyboard art, the stunt men, the animal trainers and rentals, the weapons/fight trainers, etc. I'll go so far as to say that since I'm directing it, I can draw my own horrible stick figure storyboards because I'll know what they represent, but how will that work for the CGI people? So all those things would add tens of thousands of dollars to the cost, at a bare minimum. So we're talking realistically about $300,000 or more. Easily.

 

You can film with a digital camera, staging the shots for effectiveness.

 

That's just a fraction of the costs.

 

If you understand cinema, you don't need to show everything literally--suggestion can play an effective role. Think Daredevil, not Thor. Filming at night gives you more options--which is why so many superhero films are set at night. Light equals costs.

 

Night shooting is more expensive than day shooting. You clearly don't know your business.

 

Storyboarding and shot planning saves you time and effort.

 

And does nothing to allay the costs of the actors, the wardrobe, the stuntmen, etc.

 

Make-up effects can be done for dollars, special effects can be done in computer, so can post and sound.

 

Again, we're not doing a college play or the Blair Witch Project. Make-up is expensive. Not earth-shattering, but not cheap. You cannot do make-up on a cast of dozens of people for "a few dollars". Again, what world to you live on where everything is so cheap, and how do I get there?

 

You don't need permits if you shoot discretely with permission on private property.

 

Asgard is a huge place and we'd clearly need stages to film on. You can't film a Thor movie in your back yard. How much would I have to pay to have sets built and stage hands working the stage?

 

Can you do alot more for millions?? Sure, throwing money at it can make a heckuva movie, or a piece of crap.

 

Yeah, for $10 million I could pull it off. I wouldn't hire any big-name actors.

 

Can you do a lot more for nothing? Yes, you can?

Think that's a delusion?

Only if you do not know what you are doing.

 

Xorr, if you think you need millions to do a superhero movie, you CLEARLY do not know what you are doing or talking about.

 

On the contrary, it's you who does not know what he's talking about. Ask any film student what costs more, shooting day or shooting night scenes, and they will tell you night scenes cost more. Anyone who studies film knows that (except you, apparently). :rolleyes:

 

See, what you're doing is arguing dishonestly. Yes, I can make a good, intriguing, well done, successful film for a few thousand dollars. Not "under $1,000" as you claimed, but for a few thousand, maybe a few tens of thousands. But anyone with a single working brain cell and a smidgen of honesty will admit that you cannot do a Hollywood level Thor movie for that paltry amount. Not even for several tens of thousands. The staging and costuming alone would run into hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. Actors need to be hired and paid, and we're not talking about hiring cheap hacks.

 

No one regardless of their level of talent can make a superhero movie that compares to modern standards for under $1,000 as you absurdly claimed. No one can make one for under $1,000,000, much less $1,000. So your claim is ridiculous and absurd. Unless and until you can show me an itemized cost chart on how you can film an epic of this level for $1,000, you're insane. It's that simple.

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Xorr, seriously, SHUT UP AND TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT YOU WRITE.

 

There is no doubt that you said this:

 

"I for one refuse to get excited. I'm convinced that the only way I'll ever see a great, faithfully done superhero movie free of silly advertising, tampered-with costumes and origins, race-changed characters, bad camera work, etc, is if I film it myself. Yes, that's right, I'm just gonna say it. I'm the only person I have confidence in when it comes to doing superhero movies. No one else can produce a good one."

You actually said you could make a better movie than any of these studios. You said a dumb thing. You're not the first person to do it and you certainly won't be the last. It happens.

 

But, instead of admitting you might have exaggerated, you spent hours defending an indefensible comment (at the time of this posting you're still doing it). What personality defect do you have that persuaded you to do this? IT'S A TOY FORUM! It's not like it's attached to your life!

 

Yeah, we get that you're not a studio mogul and you're not swimming in coin. But really, with the way you talk to people here, did you really think you were going to get away with saying what you said? Just like my least favorite talking head, if you think you're better than everyone you better not screw up. This is just the chickens coming home to roost.

 

And Arrow's right. I've found several Web Sites that can show you how to make a successful movie on an extremely limited budget. Any movie. And to call his work "less than impressive" is highly insulting and shows how completely out of touch you are. Ren & Stimpy, Freakazoid, and Johnny Bravo were wonderful shows and Batman: The Animated Series was an animation revolution.

 

Bottom line? Whether it's because of budget issues or lack of filmmaking knowledge, you can't make a better movie than Marvel or WB.

 

Grow up, get a life, stop being such an ass and stop ruining our threads with your constant nitpicking.

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Arrow carries on...

 

Why should I make a film myself, when I WORK FOR PAY on films?? Its my JOB.

 

If it's so easy and so cheap, why haven't you invested the paltry "under $1,000" and made enough to retire off of? Why toil and work when you can be a millionaire for a lousy $1,000 investment?

 

Who says I have to make a magnus opus either? Where do you get these bizarre standards you hold people by??

 

It's hardly bizarre to ask someone who claims to have 20 years in the business and who claims he can create a blockbuster movie for "under $1,000" why he hasn't done so. I mean, anyone with half a brain that supposedly had the talent would clearly invest that $1,000 and earn enough to retire. You make it sound so simple, but you don't put your money where your mouth is. I wonder why.

 

Oh, that's right...........you don't know anything about the craft or the business, so you cannot be expected to know what people actually do in it.

You've never generated a single frame of film IN YOUR LIFE, right?

 

You'd be surprised.

 

Let's turn the question around: why have you not saved your money to make this film you claim you can make? Even for $50,000. You can save money, you can get a loan, you can get funds. A guy with such passion.....such vision....

 

Because as I clearly spelled out to you in excruciating detail, it would cost easily more than a quarter million dollars to make such a movie! I can't generate that much cash. I don't have anywhere near that much credit. And who is gonna fund someone who has no verifiable experience and loan them $250,000 to make a film? How would I recoup that money to repay the loans? I'd need to get the rights from Marvel Comics, and that won't happen short of a triple-miracle. Otherwise, I'd have a great film I couldn't even show without being sued for copyright infringement. Yeah, that's some incentive to go begging for a quarter million dollars in loans for a movie no one will ever see and that will land me in court (perhaps even in jail) and leave me in debt over my head! :rolleyes:

 

Yea, yea, more excuses.

Write a one page script.....just a vignette, a section of a story........ then stage it with stick figures ( Spielberg cannot draw, and yet he does boards this way), that is all you need. Label it, show the camera moves and transitions. It should take you a couple of evenings work, at most.

 

As I said, that's not the hard part. The money is.

 

Then scan it and post it here.

 

We'll see if you know anything about storyboarding.

Or just more excuses.

 

I'm hardly gonna waste my time in a challenge by someone who has already condemned my skills before seeing them.

 

Heck, I can storyboard it for $1000, but you'd better DAMN well know what you are doing because I WILL call you on it. ;)

You will not get a better offer than that anywhere.

 

Well if that's the case, you just proved yourself wrong once more. You said I could do the film for "under $1,000" when in actuality hiring you to do the storyboards would cost more than that (ie not "under" $1,000 but rather $1,000 exactly). And then there's the camera, the lights, the wardrobe, the actors, etc, etc, etc...

 

Again, you refuse to address the costs of wardrobe, actors, props, trainers, etc. Address that. Because I'm not gonna stop repeating it to you until you do.

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See, what you're doing is arguing dishonestly. Yes, I can make a good, intriguing, well done, successful film for a few thousand dollars. Not "under $1,000" as you claimed, but for a few thousand, maybe a few tens of thousands.

 

Ahem. What is the difference of a "few thousand" here?

I do not give a crap if you think I'm arguing dishonestly.

I'm trying to see if you can put your money where your mouth is and prove this talent you claim you have. All you have done is dance around it with contrived excuses and evaded the opportunity to prove yourself. I want to see from you is if you can do it.

 

 

 

But anyone with a single working brain cell and a smidgen of honesty will admit that you cannot do a Hollywood level Thor movie for that paltry amount.

Have I been talking about a Thor movie, here?

No, you have.

Of course its absurd to make Thor at that price. Read what I have written again--I've not talked about Thor, have I?

 

But there are other superheroes that can work at guerilla film budgets, and that is my point. How you stage a scene influences what the scene costs.

 

Do you know how to do that?

Show me, prove it to me.

Take a character that works in shadows, like, say Batman........where you do not have to show much of him to begin with.

The dockyard scene in Batman Begins is a good example here. Its all cutting and suggestion. You see bits and pieces of the character, as he grabs people. You can make Batman scary that way.

Do you need an elaborate costume for it? No.

Do you need a fancy set? No.

Can it be filmed for less that $100. Yes.

But you have to know what you are doing.

 

Here's a second challenge--after the storyboarding one.

Borrow a camera, and go shoot what I have just described. Think it through.......work it out. Shoot 15 seconds of footage. No need for a costume, just some guy grabbing people in a systematic way and pulling them into the dark. Let's see if you can make it scary and dramatic. Use your friends.

IF you know what you are doing, you can do this easily.

Shoot it and post it on Youtube and link it here for all to see.

 

Money where your mouth is.

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Cjflan32 wrote:

 

Xorr, seriously, SHUT UP AND TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT YOU WRITE.

 

I clearly am. Maybe it's just a reading comprehension problem on your part or something. Don't blame me for your defects.

 

There is no doubt that you said this:

 

"I for one refuse to get excited. I'm convinced that the only way I'll ever see a great, faithfully done superhero movie free of silly advertising, tampered-with costumes and origins, race-changed characters, bad camera work, etc, is if I film it myself. Yes, that's right, I'm just gonna say it. I'm the only person I have confidence in when it comes to doing superhero movies. No one else can produce a good one."

 

You're preaching to the choir, son. No one ever said I did not say that, least of all me. You're arguing something already agreed to. Why?

 

You actually said you could make a better movie than any of these studios. You said a dumb thing. You're not the first person to do it and you certainly won't be the last. It happens.

 

No, it's not a dumb thing to say. It's reality. Studios are only concerned with selling toy variants and making huge sums of money off it. The last Iron Man movie proved that. It was nothing more than an action figure selling machine. Only someone who loves the comics, who has respect for them, can make a faithful, well done movie. Anyone else will, as has been proven repeatedly, tamper with the material and make absurd changes to the characters, the costumes, and the origins simply out of ego gratification. Or to sell more toys.

 

But, instead of admitting you might have exaggerated, you spent hours defending an indefensible comment (at the time of this posting you're still doing it). What personality defect do you have that persuaded you to do this? IT'S A TOY FORUM! It's not like it's attached to your life!

 

On the contrary, what personality defect do you have that compels you to whine and mewl about people having a discussion on a discussion forum? If you don't like it, don't read it. Nobody invited you to join in, and no on will miss you if you bow out. Certainly no one is forcing you to read my posts. If you hate what I have to say so much, learn to ignore me. I'm not even talking to you about this, I'm arguing this with someone else. Why are you the one whining all the time?

 

Yeah, we get that you're not a studio mogul and you're not swimming in coin. But really, with the way you talk to people here, did you really think you were going to get away with saying what you said? Just like my least favorite talking head, if you think you're better than everyone you better not screw up. This is just the chickens coming home to roost.

 

When did I ever say I was better than everyone else? I never said that. Nor did I ever say I am the only person who can do a great, faithful superhero movie. What I said was that the only person I had confidence in to do a great faithful superhero movie is myself, because I know it would be great and also faithful. I haven no ego that needs to be fed by warping and changing the characters to put my personal stamp on it.

 

And Arrow's right. I've found several Web Sites that can show you how to make a successful movie on an extremely limited budget. Any movie.

 

Well since you're such a smart-ass, why don't you show us how to afford a Thor movie? Show us precisely how you plan on achieving that level of quality on a budget of under $250,000. I dare you. Cjflan32 won't. Or can't.

 

Bottom line? Whether it's because of budget issues or lack of filmmaking knowledge, you can't make a better movie than Marvel or WB.

 

That isn't the argument. The argument is whether or not I have the skill to do so, whether I have the ability to craft a movie that is both faithful and well done. That I can do. The budget is the one thing that prevents that.

 

Grow up, get a life, stop being such an ass and stop ruining our threads with your constant nitpicking.

 

Stop whining like a girly-man. If you can't handle the heat of the discussion, stop whining and ignore us. The rest of us want to discuss the issue.

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I'm hardly gonna waste my time in a challenge by someone who has already condemned my skills before seeing them.

 

A spineless, gutless, predictable cop-out.

Your skills will be judged by far harsher critics once you make that magnus opus, or did you forget about that?

Its your chance to prove yourself right and everyone wrong........and you cop out.

I'm not surprised, Xorr.

You cannot even do a page of script.

 

People with genuine confidence in their talent have no problems demonstrating it.

 

I will not condemn your skills, IF you can demonstrate that you know what you are doing.

 

I don't roll that way. I'm not petty.

 

If anything, IF you show skill, I'll acknowledge it and applaud it. I'll even assist you in making it better.

If you do NOT show skill, I will not berate you....I will point out the flaws and problems, like I have done with.....oh......about a 1000 students I have had.

 

 

Well if that's the case, you just proved yourself wrong once more. You said I could do the film for "under $1,000" when in actuality hiring you to do the storyboards would cost more than that (ie not "under" $1,000 but rather $1,000 exactly).

 

Hey, bozo......I just offered to storyboard your film for $1000 ( if you know what you are doing). Guess how much 'boarding a feature film would cost?

 

Trust me, its a LOT more than $1000.

 

Or can you get a better deal than that?

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Arrow wrote:

 

Ahem. What is the difference of a "few thousand" here?

I do not give a crap if you think I'm arguing dishonestly.

I'm trying to see if you can put your money where your mouth is and prove this talent you claim you have. All you have done is dance around it with contrived excuses and evaded the opportunity to prove yourself. I want to see from you is if you can do it.

 

I'm evading nothing. I said that I only have confidence in myself to do a faithful superhero movie. You are being dishonest again. Or simply devious. I have always clearly been talking about filming a Thor superhero movie. From my very first post, I clearly talked about a Hollywood level major motion picture movie. And then, in direct reference to that claim, you stated (and I quote you):

"For under $1000, you can do it with a digital camera and a costume, and you can even get some lights that will work for filming at that budget."

 

I was always talking about a major film. And you claimed I could do it for under $1,000.

 

I'm trying to see if you can put your money where your mouth is and prove this talent you claim you have. All you have done is dance around it with contrived excuses and evaded the opportunity to prove yourself. I want to see from you is if you can do it.

 

There are no contrivances. You keep evading the issue. I have repeatedly (at least a half dozen times now) asked you to show how much you think it would cost to film a Thor movie. You repeatedly ignore that and keep talking about that absurd "under $1,000" claim. So tell me precisely how you propose to do a Thor movie on a small budget. I'm not about to answer a challenge that involves lots of hours of work taken out of my free time for a guy who refuses to even answer a written challenge in a debate. All's fair. You claimed that I could do the Thor movie for under $1,000 dollars, now prove it or shut up.

 

Have I been talking about a Thor movie, here?

No, you have.

Of course its absurd to make Thor at that price. Read what I have written again--I've not talked about Thor, have I?

 

Yes, you were. I keep talking, in every post and every sentence, about doing a Thor movie. In reply, you keep quoting those ridiculous prices and even mentioned night time shooting for a superhero movie specifically. I even addressed this when I told you yes, I could shoot a simple Blair Witch style Thor movie for $1,000 or so, but not a Thor movie. And you kept arguing.

 

Do you know how to do that?

Show me, prove it to me.

Take a character that works in shadows, like, say Batman........where you do not have to show much of him to begin with.

The dockyard scene in Batman Begins is a good example here. Its all cutting and suggestion. You see bits and pieces of the character, as he grabs people. You can make Batman scary that way.

Do you need an elaborate costume for it? No.

Do you need a fancy set? No.

Can it be filmed for less that $100. Yes.

But you have to know what you are doing.

 

Again, I have better things to do with $100 in this economy than to spend it trying to prove a point to people who most likely will deride it out of principle because they don't like me. Why don't you prove it since you have so much experience and do your own film for $1,000? The challenge can go both ways.

 

Here's a second challenge--after the storyboarding one.

Borrow a camera, and go shoot what I have just described. Think it through.......work it out. Shoot 15 seconds of footage. No need for a costume, just some guy grabbing people in a systematic way and pulling them into the dark. Let's see if you can make it scary and dramatic. Use your friends.

IF you know what you are doing, you can do this easily.

Shoot it and post it on Youtube and link it here for all to see.

 

Again, you can call it evading, I don't care. You can't manipulate me into wasting my valuable time and energy by taunting me. I'm not about to waste my time with your challenges when you cannot rise to answer my challenge to show me a budget for a Thor movie.

 

A spineless, gutless, predictable cop-out.

 

No, just not willing to bow to someone else's will. I don't feel obligated to waste my time to answer your challenge. It's that simple. And you can taunt me all day with your cop-out claims, it won't make a difference. You won't even address issues I challenged you with in this debate, so why should I indulge you in a manner that demands far more time and energy from me?

 

Your skills will be judged by far harsher critics once you make that magnus opus, or did you forget about that?

 

On the contrary, that's what I'm counting on. I have to have my heart in it to do good work. When my heart is in something, I do well. When I have to do it without meaning, I'm not as creative, and that shows.

 

Its your chance to prove yourself right and everyone wrong........and you cop out.

I'm not surprised, Xorr.

You cannot even do a page of script.

 

Wrong again. I don't need to do a page of script. I don't need to accept a challenge from someone who cannot even answer challenges in a debate. I can do a page of script. I simply am not motivated to do so, nor will taunting motivate me to do so.

 

People with genuine confidence in their talent have no problems demonstrating it.

 

So prove your talent, since you supposedly know so much about the film industry and answer my challenges about the Thor budget. You have ignored those challenges all night, why should I accept yours?

 

Hey, bozo......I just offered to storyboard your film for $1000 ( if you know what you are doing). Guess how much 'boarding a feature film would cost?

 

He called me Bozo! :D

 

Such silly, petty men you are. You and Cjflan32 cannot even follow a simple argument. I've been talking about doing a Thor film that you claim can be done for under $1,000. I point out it cannot be done, and address all the reasons why. You keep arguing how cheap it is, and Cjflan32 writes about a website showing how you can make a movie cheaply, yet neither of you will address the issues and costs I brought up. Why? Because you can't win the debate, that's why. You go back to "well I never talked about doing a Thor movie". Well why then did you keep replying with attempts to back your absurd $1,000 claim when you clearly knew I was talking about a motion picture that demands hundreds of thousands of dollars at the very minimum? Because you're dishonest, that's why.

 

So why don't you just admit that no one can do a proper, full length Thor movie at current Hollywood standards for less than a few million dollars? At least then we'd have a starting point from which to agree. But no, you want to cling to your original, absurd "under $1,000" claim.

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And ironically, speaking of bozos, Arrow wrote:

 

Hey, bozo......I just offered to storyboard your film for $1000 ( if you know what you are doing). Guess how much 'boarding a feature film would cost?

 

Uh...here's a clue for you, just a hint of reality. "My film", as you allude to, has always been a full length Thor feature film. That was made clear from my very first post. Try getting some reading comprehension skills. So if you're offering to do storyboards for "my film", that means a full length Thor feature film. I never said I was interested in doing a 5 minute piece-of-s#i+ youtube Thor fanboy vignette, nor would I pay you the outrageous sum of $1,000 to do that.

 

You wiggle and worm, but you cannot evade.

 

Show me how you propose I do a Thor film for "under $1,000" as you originally claimed. If that was not your claim, then answer my replies and clearly state how much you believe a Thor movie, and by this I mean a full length feature film with at least at the quality level set by the Spiderman and Iron Man movies, would cost to do these days using all your infinite insider wisdom on how to make films cheaply.

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Cjflan32 wrote:

 

And Arrow's right. I've found several Web Sites that can show you how to make a successful movie on an extremely limited budget. Any movie.

 

I'll issue you the same challenge that Arrow keeps ducking. Show me how you propose to do a full length feature film of Thor that's in keeping with modern expectations of quality (ie not a cheap fan-boy youtube thing, but a real movie like Iron Man), with a budget of anything less than $250,000. Hell, try that with anything less than $1,000,000! Either one is fine with me. Show me how you're going to pay for actors, for storyboard artists, for animal trainers, for extras, for stunt men, for fight coordinators, for stages and sets, for cameras and lights and CGI editors and all the other people needed to create a film like this. And show me how you're gonna do that cheap.

 

Then explain to me why, at the end of the Spiderman or Iron Man movies, the credits are 20 minutes long because they have 750 different people credited with working on it, and explain why Marvel had to spend $55 MILLION to film Iron Man when, according to Arrow, they could have done it cheaply and just as well for "under $1,000".

 

I've been consistently arguing about making a feature film of Thor, a full length motion picture. And you and Arrow keep shooting off your mouths about how I can do it dirt cheap. And yet both of you refuse to address the costs I mentioned, repeatedly. Put up or shut up. Cjflan32, you consider yourself a genius, and Arrow claims to have 20 years in the industry. Surely the two of you can put your heads together and back your silly claims about being able to do such a film for under $250,000. Stop deflecting this original challenge from me by countering with silly challenges for me to produce a youtube vignette.

 

Hell, you prove that to me, you show me how I can afford to do a Thor movie at that level of quality for under $250,000, and I'll do the damned thing. I'll find the loans, I'll let Marvel sue my ass, whatever it takes to shut you up once and for all. Stop evading my challenges about the budget and prove your claims that it will take "under $1,000". I clearly stated the going rates directly from the SAG, and that expense for just 9 actors (unknowns) and 12 extras ran the budget up to well over $200,000, and that's just to pay the actors.

 

Come on hotshot. Put your money where your mouth is. Don't cower behind silly counter-challenges. Back your original claim and show me how you can do a Thor movie that cheap.

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Oh Good Christ..

 

I had a bad meal in a restaurant. I guess I can't call it a bad meal until I go to cooking school, become a gourmet chef myself, and show that restaurant how to properly cook that food.

0

 

He's making the claim he can do better.

 

He can't.

 

 

 

Sure he could.

 

These studios have a bazillion dollars to play with and they keep cranking out lousy movies. I'd love to see what Xorr Studios could do with their budget.

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That isn't the argument. The argument is whether or not I have the skill to do so, whether I have the ability to craft a movie that is both faithful and well done. That I can do. The budget is the one thing that prevents that.

 

I've read through the previous posts, and some of the posters have gotten quite heated on the subject. You say you have the skills to produce a first class, studio quality superhero movie. Arrow has shared with us some of his resume, please share with us what your skills are. No confrontation, no hyperbole, just what do you bring to the table?

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[

The shield is one thing. Wing tips and buccaneer boots are another.

 

 

 

The moment someone says something like this, they should have nothing to do with a super hero movie.

 

Super Hero movies really get a bad wrap like no other genre. You never see a western where the producers look at a cowboy and say, "Those hats and boots are stupid. We need black rubber and armor for today's audiences to buy into this stuff." Jonah Hex and Wild Wild West, however, do contradict this and in doing so earn every bit of the disrespect they get.

 

What works in the comics doesn't always work on the screen. The Batman on film is not a direct interpretation of the comics but when I watch them I still see Batman.

I'm just gonna throw this out here. I defy you or anyone else to look at Sandy Collora's "Batman: Dead End" and "World's Finest" and tell me those 100% comic accurate suits would'nt work on screen.

 

Doom Saber hit this one already. I believe it's on page 4.

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That isn't the argument. The argument is whether or not I have the skill to do so, whether I have the ability to craft a movie that is both faithful and well done. That I can do. The budget is the one thing that prevents that.

 

I've read through the previous posts, and some of the posters have gotten quite heated on the subject. You say you have the skills to produce a first class, studio quality superhero movie. Arrow has shared with us some of his resume, please share with us what your skills are. No confrontation, no hyperbole, just what do you bring to the table?

 

 

Its quite clear that Xorr doesn't have anything to bring to the table except his delusions and bravado.

He's unable and unwilling to demonstrate his so-called "skills" under even the simplest of terms. Even making a simple storyboard, or a simple short film is beyond his abilities--and these are something that could lend credence to what he's says. If he can tell a grand epic story, then he can tell a simple one....but he really can't tell either.

 

He does not know how.

 

He's laughably copped out of the opportunities he's been given, with really feeble excuses.

 

How much clearer need it be??

He'll dodge and dance around providing ANY proof because he's got nothing.

He's a fraud, and he knows it.

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No, it's not a dumb thing to say. It's reality. Studios are only concerned with selling toy variants and making huge sums of money off it. The last Iron Man movie proved that. It was nothing more than an action figure selling machine. Only someone who loves the comics, who has respect for them, can make a faithful, well done movie. Anyone else will, as has been proven repeatedly, tamper with the material and make absurd changes to the characters, the costumes, and the origins simply out of ego gratification. Or to sell more toys

 

Ok, I wasn't going to say anything else with regards to your "arguments" but his was one of the most asinine arguments you have given thus far and I just had to chime in on this again!!! I mean do you really think this, or was it something that just slipped out?? If you are a comic fan, then you obviously know that one of the trademarks of Iron Man in the comics is his multiple costumes!!! From his original clunky one, to the 80's Silver Centurion Armor (the one he was wearing when I came into comics, and my personal fave), to the armor of today!! I mean he even has armor designed specifically to take on one character, like the Hulkbuster Armor!! Inmean everyone in comics knows this!! It's a part of Iron Man, and thus would be represented in the film!! I seriously doubt the film execs were trying to fit in as many armors as they could just to sell action figures!! Sure licensing came into play, but as a whole for the film, each item was left up to the marketers and the licensing enteties, like Hasbro!!

 

Now on the toy line there were so many suits that never appeared in the original movie, as it is with part 2!! I mean I never saw scuba Iron Man, did you?? LOL!!

 

I bet if we look back at old Toy Biz Iron Man lines, based on comic books and animated lines, you'll find suits never created too!!! Just thought I'd throw that in there.

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[

Its quite clear that Xorr doesn't have anything to bring to the table except his delusions and bravado.

 

 

 

I don't know if Doctor Xorr has a Bachelor's Master's Doctorate in Film Making and BS but I'd trust him to look at Superman and not say, "You know what Superman needs? A bastard son! THEN he'd be cool!"

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JollyMonReturns wrote:

 

I've read through the previous posts, and some of the posters have gotten quite heated on the subject. You say you have the skills to produce a first class, studio quality superhero movie. Arrow has shared with us some of his resume, please share with us what your skills are. No confrontation, no hyperbole, just what do you bring to the table?

 

That's easy. Clearly, I bring passion for the source material and a burning desire to see it turned into a well done movie. That means being faithful to the source material. With that respect comes a lack of ego, which means no bastard son for Superman (good one Master Jailer! ;):D), no warped costume changes, no silly attempt at psychology and tying the characters' origins together. Just a true to the source, well done movie.

 

Have I ever actually directed a movie? No.

Have I ever been on a movie set? No.

Have I ever worked a movie camera? No.

 

None of that matters. Why? Because I know when a scene is filmed nicely and when the camera angle is off. I know when the pacing of a movie is too slow or too fast or when it's too choppily edited. I know when a scene is indecipherable due to sloppy MTV style "shaky camera" syndrome and when it's filmed properly. I've watched enough movies to know that some scenes need a wider angle, others need to be brought in close. I'm aware of the effects of lighting on mood and how to differentiate between foreground and background action. So yeah, I can film it and know whether it is or isn't filmed well. Fans often know more about an art than those who work in the field.

 

And I have written enough fantasy stories in my life, all of which have been highly praised by friends and acquaintances (most of whom would be honest enough to say "that's crap" if it was). I've written and DM'd thousands of Dungeons & Dragons games, so I know how to pace a story, I know how to get information out there without having to rely on tons of exposition, etc. My games were so popular that everyone wanted to get in. I had to do games in shifts, otherwise I'd have 50 people sitting at my table at once.

 

So yeah, I am totally confident that I can take a character that I have such passion for and do it right. There would be no ego involved, hence no need to change the character because I thought I was better than the creators and trying to improve on perfection. There is no desire to "make the character my own" as so many other directors do. There is no need for me to "reinterpret" the character because I respect the source material and therefore it would be a true portrayal.

 

As for taunts from the likes of Arrow, he can scream till his face turns blue. I've never let anyone bully me into doing something, nor will I appease him by putting a lot of energy into some meaningless youtube creation. He can call it ducking or evading or anything he wants. I don't care. I stand by what I said. I'm the only person I know of who I have faith in to produce a truly well done, faithful superhero movie.

 

Also, note that in my original post I did not necessarily mean I would have to personally film it. I wrote:

 

"I for one refuse to get excited. I'm convinced that the only way I'll ever see a great, faithfully done superhero movie free of silly advertising, tampered-with costumes and origins, race-changed characters, bad camera work, etc, is if I film it myself. Yes, that's right, I'm just gonna say it. I'm the only person I have confidence in when it comes to doing superhero movies. No one else can produce a good one."

 

Note the emphasis on the word "produce". Yes, the other sentence says film it myself, but I clearly also indicated simply being in charge of production, which is what I actually more what meant. As long as I was in charge as the producer, it would be faithful. And as a producer, I need no directing skills. That being said (lest Arrow or Flan accuse me of ducking again!), I still stand by my other claim that if I filmed it myself, ie directed it personally, the movie would be great, and better than anything the studios put out.

 

Finally, I will note that Cjflan32 and Arrow, both of whom keep making outrageous claims about being able to film Thor for "under $1,000", have failed to respond to my repeated calls to show me how much it would cost me to film a Thor movie. I even challenged them to show me how it could be done for $250,000 or less and that if they could, I would do it. Neither of them has been able to back up their outrageous claims of being able to do a Thor movie short of a multimillion dollar budget, because we both know what they're full of. And I'll give everyone a hint...it doesn't smell good.

 

I'm off to the other job, I'll check in later to see if Arrow or Cjflan have summoned the courage to give us a cost estimate on Thor. :rolleyes:

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