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Data: Shouldn't he have had a blue uniform?


revsears

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I was continuing through DS9 and realized ath Jadzia was wearing blue. She is listed as the cheif science officer, like Spock. Didn't data fill that role too? I'm not sure what Data's official role was, he wasn't reporting to Geordi or Forge, but to the captain, so i'd guess he was Cheif science officer. Anyone know for sure?

 

I'm also curious as to why some of them like Troy and Six of 9 got to wear specaility uniforms. I always figured Uhara was some kind of "space pentecostal" and didn't believe women should wear pants. But I don't see any reason why the other two ladies named got special uniforms.

 

Anyone else catch any weird uniform questions? or maybe could answer mine?

 

I have the answer for you: It's just a show. (lol)

 

I'm just kidding man. That's what my father-in-law says any time I point out some flaw in a movie or over-analyze a plot point. He'll say, "It's just a movie." (lol)

 

And hey, while we're discussing errors, inconsistencies, and/or continuity problems, something's been bothering me about Star Trek 2009, even though it is "just a movie". Remember the scene at the beginning where Nero has requested that the captain of the U.S.S. Kelvin come aboard the Narada? Well, it shows him coming down in the turbolift several levels to the hangar bay. But that would suggest the ship's constructed with the bay on the bottom rear like the Enterpirse. But of course you see in the next scene or so he exits the bay in a shuttle and you notice that the shuttle bay is at the top of the ship. That just didn't make sense to me. I mean, I see where he walks up a couple of flights of stairs to the shuttle bay, but...I don't know. Him coming down the turbolift from the bridge when the shuttle bay is up above the bridge just didn't make sense to me. Am I missing something? Can anyone explain it to me?

the only thing i can think of is that Turbo lifts don't move in 3 dimensions. He went down, then had to go back up and the latter was off camera.

 

That's possible. Perhaps they wanted to show the immensity of the ship or something.

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And hey, while we're discussing errors, inconsistencies, and/or continuity problems, something's been bothering me about Star Trek 2009, even though it is "just a movie". Remember the scene at the beginning where Nero has requested that the captain of the U.S.S. Kelvin come aboard the Narada? Well, it shows him coming down in the turbolift several levels to the hangar bay. But that would suggest the ship's constructed with the bay on the bottom rear like the Enterpirse. But of course you see in the next scene or so he exits the bay in a shuttle and you notice that the shuttle bay is at the top of the ship. That just didn't make sense to me. I mean, I see where he walks up a couple of flights of stairs to the shuttle bay, but...I don't know. Him coming down the turbolift from the bridge when the shuttle bay is up above the bridge just didn't make sense to me. Am I missing something? Can anyone explain it to me?

 

That whole movie was one long illogic-train. None of it makes much sense.

 

What?! What do you mean?

 

I can't speak for arrow on why he calls it an illogic train but it may have something to do with the following:

1. Where did the mind controlling earwig go? Seems important for Pike to just loose it off camera.

2. Why did Nero just wait for x years while in the past ?

3. and how on earth, regardless of performance did one man get captain in one day? Acting maybe but awarded his hwole ship with so little experience? the best in the fleet? completely illogical.

4. Not to mention how lucky Kirk was to end up in that exact cave with spock prime.

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I can't speak for arrow on why he calls it an illogic train but it may have something to do with the following:

 

Do you really want me to go into it?? It would mean reading a literal novel, there would be so much writing....

 

 

1. Where did the mind controlling earwig go? Seems important for Pike to just loose it off camera.

2. Why did Nero just wait for x years while in the past ?

3. and how on earth, regardless of performance did one man get captain in one day? Acting maybe but awarded his hwole ship with so little experience? the best in the fleet? completely illogical.

4. Not to mention how lucky Kirk was to end up in that exact cave with spock prime.

 

--Why have a window on the bridge? The human eye cannot discern at the distances that the ship engages objects at--which is why the need a viewscreen in the first place--so why have a window? Its like putting a window on a submarine--you cannot see anything to begin with.

 

-Why is the majority of the ship all designed with a stylized aesthetic--sculpted wall panels, chrome and glass......and the engineering spaces look like a brewery? It makes no sense.

 

-Why is that someone standing on Delta Vega can see Vulcan implode, but you cannot see Delta Vega from Vulcan???

 

--How is it possible that Chekhov can be a Star Fleet Ensign at age 17, and presumably have gone through 4 years of the Academy. That would mean we was 13 years old when he enlisted in Star Fleet. He's not old enough to masturbate, but he's old enough to actually become an astronaut?

And then he's assigned a command position which involves using voice-activated devices......and he has a speech impediment?

 

-Why would Spock waste ship resources and maroon Kirk on an ice-world ( Delta Vega), when the Enterprise supposedly has a brig?

 

-Why would Spock Prime emphatically state that young Spock must never learn of the elder's existence to Kirk, and then go meet young Spock directly himself?????

 

-Why is Scotty allowed full access to the Enterprise's systems, when he's been reprimanded to a backwater outpost just prior? Does that mean if a ship's crew LIKES YOU, then you get to be part of the crew.......the command crew????

 

-Why is the communication section located at the BOTTOM of the ship? Would it not make more sense to locate it closer to the command bridge?

 

-Why is that the Enterprise can, with a simple programming upgrade via Spock Prime to Scotty, transport someone from Saturn to near Earth orbit? Bear in mind that all prior literature on Star Trek says that the transporter is a device with a practical limitation from ground to orbit-a maximum distance of maybe 1000 miles. Saturn is an average of about 800 MILLION miles distance from Earth.

 

I mean........on and on it goes.........where the illogic ends, nobody knows.......

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Wow arrow you covered a few I didn't even catch. I went it the movie and like it... untill i started thinking about it. Way too many holes listed above.

 

The sad thing for me is that, even if they have tighter writing on the sequel, these holes wills till be in the back of my mind and taint it.

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Wow arrow you covered a few I didn't even catch. I went it the movie and like it... untill i started thinking about it. Way too many holes listed above.

 

The sad thing for me is that, even if they have tighter writing on the sequel, these holes wills till be in the back of my mind and taint it.

 

Well, you know what?

A LOT of people I know loved the movie, and that's okay.

 

I cannot figure out why....I have not been able to nail down exactly what it is about this film that works for so many people.........but not me.

 

Its almost like the film flaunts its differences in a defiant way, simply for the sake of being different.

Star Trek seriously needed new life breathed into it........no argument there, but......but......I was expecting........hoping.......for something that made a bit more sense.

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I was continuing through DS9 and realized ath Jadzia was wearing blue. She is listed as the cheif science officer, like Spock. Didn't data fill that role too? I'm not sure what Data's official role was, he wasn't reporting to Geordi or Forge, but to the captain, so i'd guess he was Cheif science officer. Anyone know for sure?

 

I'm also curious as to why some of them like Troy and Six of 9 got to wear specaility uniforms. I always figured Uhara was some kind of "space pentecostal" and didn't believe women should wear pants. But I don't see any reason why the other two ladies named got special uniforms.

 

Anyone else catch any weird uniform questions? or maybe could answer mine?

 

 

 

I have the answer for you: It's just a show. (lol)

 

I'm just kidding man. That's what my father-in-law says any time I point out some flaw in a movie or over-analyze a plot point. He'll say, "It's just a movie." (lol)

 

And hey, while we're discussing errors, inconsistencies, and/or continuity problems, something's been bothering me about Star Trek 2009, even though it is "just a movie". Remember the scene at the beginning where Nero has requested that the captain of the U.S.S. Kelvin come aboard the Narada? Well, it shows him coming down in the turbolift several levels to the hangar bay. But that would suggest the ship's constructed with the bay on the bottom rear like the Enterpirse. But of course you see in the next scene or so he exits the bay in a shuttle and you notice that the shuttle bay is at the top of the ship. That just didn't make sense to me. I mean, I see where he walks up a couple of flights of stairs to the shuttle bay, but...I don't know. Him coming down the turbolift from the bridge when the shuttle bay is up above the bridge just didn't make sense to me. Am I missing something? Can anyone explain it to me?

 

Look at the area around the saucer section and the bridge.The bridge is higher up off the saucer section he would have to go down then into the ship then back up to the shuttle bay

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Let me see what I can do here...

 

Where did the mind controlling earwig go? Seems important for Pike to just loose it off camera.

 

I think the fact that Pike was in a wheelchair at the end seems to imply that the "earwig" had to be surgically removed off-screen, thereby possibly causing some permanent damage since it was attached to his brain stem.

 

Why did Nero just wait for x years while in the past?

 

During his mind-meld with Kirk, the original Spock reveals that Nero's been imprisoned on the Klingon penal planet Rura Penthe for the past twenty-five years, secretly plotting his revenge against Spock and the Federation. This, along with his prison-break, is shown in one of the deleted scenes. BTW, the Klingons they portrayed remind me of better-looking Uruk-hai warriors from the Lord of the Rings movies. (lol)

 

..and how on earth, regardless of performance did one man get captain in one day? Acting maybe but awarded his hwole ship with so little experience? the best in the fleet?

 

How do we know it's only been one day? It's never clear how much time elapses between the climax of the movie and when Kirk makes captain. For one thing, how many months would it take to repair the damage the battles with Nero did to the Enterprise? And yet it's seen good-as-new at the end, as if it had been repaired and cleared for duty. And how long would it have taken Pike to recover from his injuries and subsequent surgery to remove the Centaurian Slug? Many of the crew members had visible injuries as well that were healed by the end of the movie, implying that alot of time had passed. Now I don't know if an officer can make captain in a matter of months, but it's clealy been longer than just one day between the time Nero is destroyed and we see Kirk's promotion ceremony.

 

Not to mention how lucky Kirk was to end up in that exact cave with spock prime.

 

Incredible coincidences happen in real life all the time, sometimes against astronomical odds.

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Why have a window on the bridge? The human eye cannot discern at the distances that the ship engages objects at--which is why the need a viewscreen in the first place--so why have a window? Its like putting a window on a submarine--you cannot see anything to begin with.

 

They do have a viewscreen that pops up on the window whenever they need it. And you can see objects in space through a window; there's no atmosphere or dense material to see through, as is the case with submarines. In a submarine, you'd be looking through water molecules, through which objects are obscured at a distance. Now perhaps in space you might not see an object that's not illuminated by a light source like, say for example, a nearby sun. But obviously they have sensors that detect objects that can't be seen through the window.

 

Why is the majority of the ship all designed with a stylized aesthetic--sculpted wall panels, chrome and glass......and the engineering spaces look like a brewery? It makes no sense.

 

Why make engineering look pretty? To me it needs to be as practical as possible. Now I will admit I'm not too crazy about the whole "a-brewery-was-used-for-engineering" idea. Sometimes it's painfully obvious that they're in a brewery. But in most of the shots it looks pretty cool.

 

Why is that someone standing on Delta Vega can see Vulcan implode, but you cannot see Delta Vega from Vulcan???

 

Who ever said it couldn't be seen from Vulcan? Just because it's not shown in any of the shots, it doesn't mean that at some point in the day or night-time sky it can't be seen on some point on the planet's surface.

 

How is it possible that Chekhov can be a Star Fleet Ensign at age 17, and presumably have gone through 4 years of the Academy. That would mean we was 13 years old when he enlisted in Star Fleet. He's not old enough to masturbate, but he's old enough to actually become an astronaut? And then he's assigned a command position which involves using voice-activated devices......and he has a speech impediment?

 

In real life, it's revealed that the actor playing Chekov exhibits near-genius tendencies, such as having the ability to speak multiple languages, among others. And of course there are child prodigies in real life that accomplish multiple college degrees before they even reach adulthood. The only flaw with Chekov's situation is that if the Federation is patterned after a real navy or military, there should obviously be some kind of age requirement. But hey...it's the future, so maybe age limits are lifted for child geniuses. (lol) The speech impediment thing? It was funny. That's what I got out of it.

 

Why would Spock waste ship resources and maroon Kirk on an ice-world ( Delta Vega), when the Enterprise supposedly has a brig?

 

Kirk already exhibited the tendency to pop up where he wasn't supposed to. Maybe Spock wanted to make sure he couldn't meddle anymore period. And I think the fact that Spock marooned him on a planet like that further illustrates the underlying tempermental and emotional disposition he struggles to suppress. Basically, he was ticked-off and made a rash decision.

 

Why would Spock Prime emphatically state that young Spock must never learn of the elder's existence to Kirk, and then go meet young Spock directly himself?????

 

I think he meant during the crisis they were facing he can't be revealed; they didn't have time to go into why Spock's future self was there and was coaching Kirk unbeknownst to his younger self. After the crisis was over, why would it matter if the young Spock knew of the older Spock? And even then, he reveals that he wanted his younger self and Kirk to arrive at the solution together on their own without his direct intervention so they could establish the teamwork and friendship that would define their careers in Starfleet.

 

Why is Scotty allowed full access to the Enterprise's systems, when he's been reprimanded to a backwater outpost just prior? Does that mean if a ship's crew LIKES YOU, then you get to be part of the crew.......the command crew????

 

Again, dealing with a crisis, they probably felt that they could use all the help they could get in stopping Nero. Scotty was already a proven engineer. He was on board the ship, so why not take advantage of his knowledge? After all, he saved the Enterprise in the end, along with the crew that saved the earth, and the Federation itself. I'd let him be chief engineer. (lol)

 

Why is the communication section located at the BOTTOM of the ship? Would it not make more sense to locate it closer to the command bridge?

 

Now this is a good question to which I don't have a good answer. You'll have to ask whoever designed it that way. (lol) I have no clue and found it odd myself actually.

 

Why is that the Enterprise can, with a simple programming upgrade via Spock Prime to Scotty, transport someone from Saturn to near Earth orbit? Bear in mind that all prior literature on Star Trek says that the transporter is a device with a practical limitation from ground to orbit-a maximum distance of maybe 1000 miles. Saturn is an average of about 800 MILLION miles distance from Earth.

 

Who's to say because of the new timeline better beaming technology wasn't developed that allowed for longer distances? So many things were changed as a result of Nero altering the history of the Star Trek universe, and perhaps beaming technology was one of them. But...in your defense ARROW, the elder Spock never alludes to the fact that beaming can be achieved beyond the distance between an orbiting ship and the surface of a planet. That may very well be an inconsistency, but it's one I personally don't care about.

 

At the end of the day though, just like my daddy-in-law says, it's just a movie. For me it's fun, I enjoy watching it, and I don't worry about the finer points of a film unless they're so mind-numbingly stupid that they're hard to ignore. And c'mon guys...as much as I love Classic Trek, how cheesy and inconsistent was it?! None of it is 100% plausible. Why not just enjoy it for what it is, science fiction? If I want 100% accuracy or realism, I'll watch a NASA documentary. (lol)

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Look at the area around the saucer section and the bridge.The bridge is higher up off the saucer section he would have to go down then into the ship then back up to the shuttle bay

 

Ahh...I might be able to buy that. I guess the shots were just cut so quickly it made his travel time to the shuttle bay seem short. It seems to be implied that he took the turbolift straight down from the saucer section and then climbed a few flights of stairs to board a shuttle when it seems he should have been shown coming up in the turbolift to the section of the ship that houses the shuttle bay.

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And c'mon guys...as much as I love Classic Trek, how cheesy and inconsistent was it?! None of it is 100% plausible. Why not just enjoy it for what it is, science fiction? If I want 100% accuracy or realism, I'll watch a NASA documentary. (lol)

 

I'm just going by what they give me to work with. If the internal logic doesn't flow in a sensible manner, it takes me out of the story....and THAT is bad ju-ju for a drama.

 

Biggest example of this: Spock.

 

Okay, so he's now lost his home world, and displays being "emotionally compromised" in front of witnesses--even DECLARES it so, out of his own mouth. By their own internal logic.........that should end his story.

He cannot hold his position on the ship, not as a captain, not as a senior officer in ANY command capacity. He cannot command the ship ever again, by the set-up they have now established. His career is kaput.

 

But they keep him on board and he's still number 2 in charge?? WTF???

 

See, the bones of contention I have came non-stop through out this film, because the changes seemed to be made for the sake of change. That makes them contrivances, and contrivances fly in the face of dramatic flow.

 

Oh, there's a nice enough story under it all.....but I dare say its not a Star Trek story. Star Trek strove to be a bit more consistent than this--not perfect (not by a long shot), but since this new film was intended to spin-off from the old one.......it needed to follow suit.

 

In the past, Star Trek has played derivative/alternative Universe stories as either cosmetic or philosophical divergences. This new movie is a conceptual/structural divergence. Ergo: its a real muck-up. Intended to be SO different that they can re-write things from scratch.

 

Okay, I get that. I can accept that.

 

But........

There's the seed of a problem there. Take something and re-imagine it to such a stark degree and it ends up becoming STINO ( Star Trek, In Name Only). Battlestar Galactica did this, and did it in a compelling way--at least for a while.

I think my problem is that I found nothing about this Star Trek, Kirk, Spock, Enterprise etc. to be compelling in the least.

 

Yea, its just a movie, but i give a damn. Too much. @cry@

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Well, to me, to be emotionally compromised on ONE mission shouldn't lead to being court-martialled and grounded for life. Would it ever be taken into consideration that he was on such a personal and emotionally-charged mission? Yeah, he probably should have been confined to his quarters or even the brig until the case could be investigated by Starfleet if you went by regulations. After all, he physically attacked his second-in-command officer. I'm fairly certain there's a regulation that addresses that. (lol) But think about it, considering the crisis at hand, considering what Nero had done, and considering what Spock could contribute as second-in-command, who's gonna press charges? I'm thinking his outstanding acts under enemy fire might negate the one incident on the bridge with Kirk. That would come down to what a review board would say in the end. But I think all of the above would have been considered. Perhaps he could have been on some suspension status until the investigation was over, which could have occured during the possible months that transpired between Nero's demise and Kirk's promotion ceremony...

 

But when it comes to the new Star Trek being drastically different than the old Star Trek...how is it drastically different? If anything, it injects it with a pace and sense of action and adventure that I feel harkens back to the best of the old Star Trek. To me Star Trek is at its best when there's an action-packed cliffhanger and you wonder how in the world Kirk, Spock, and Co. are ever gonna get out of it, not when they're staring at nebulas and pondering the mysteries of the human psyche and philosophy. I've been watching Season Two of the original series the same time I've been watching the new film over and over lately, and the episode titled The Doomsday Machine reminded me alot of the new movie; you had this dangerous force headed towards earth, and the crew had to deal with a psychotic admiral that they were trying to relinquish command from while trying to stop it. It had some very similar elements to the movie. I just feel like Star Trek needed to be rejuvinated, and they did it in such a new, fresh and exciting way that still acknowledged what came before; they didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater, and that's why I love it so much. Now I can enjoy the old tried-and-true "Pre-Nero" Classic Trek that I grew up loving, and I can also enjoy the exciting new "Post-Nero" Trek, where you recognize some things and it's familiar, but now it's all uncertain and you don't know what's gonna happen next.

 

Y'know, when I first heard they were gonna go back and do a Trek prequel, I rolled my eyes and wondered how much they would change. But I feel as if they really adhered well to the overall look and feel of Classic Star Trek; they retained the essence of what I always loved about it, but made it seem brand-new and flashy at the same time. It only makes Classic Trek seem even cooler now, if anything. In fact, I'm not sure you can fully appreciate the new Star Trek without loving the old one. To me I appreciate it so much more knowing what came before and the history of the characters involved.

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I am gonna answer the original question. Data wore yellow and not blue because Data was not part of the science division. Data isn't a scientist and though he often conducted science kinda of things he also did navigation, engineering and a number of other things. Obviously Data wasn't a standard bridge officer and was able to do a lot more than most crewmen could do. In the original series Checkov often filled in as science officer when Spock wasn't on board but he was technically not in the Science division and didn't wear a blue outfit.

 

Data didn't move up in rank as quickly cause he was a machine and it wasn't until the second season I believe when they had a trial to rule if Data was property or a sentient being, before that though Data was looked at more in Starfleet as a tool not a real officer, and as smart as any machine is most humans don't feel a machine can command a starship. There has been more than one episode over the years that's addressed this problem. The Doctor on Voyager had similar ordeals over this. At what point does an artificial program whether a android or hologram go from being just a tool like your computer to being a sentient being that has the same rights as and flesh any blood machine.

 

Oh to answer Arrow's question as to why the new Enterprise Engineering section looked like a brewery? Because they used a Budwiser plant for the set.

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I can't speak for arrow on why he calls it an illogic train but it may have something to do with the following:

 

Do you really want me to go into it?? It would mean reading a literal novel, there would be so much writing....

 

 

-Why is that someone standing on Delta Vega can see Vulcan implode, but you cannot see Delta Vega from Vulcan???

 

 

I forget but could he actually see the planet from there or could he just simply see it explode ? You may not be able to see a house on fire from a distance but you can sure see the fire!

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The only thing that I really had to work to get past was how these young guys are all in positions of power so quickly. I just had to suck it up and say, "it's Hollywood and they need young, fresh actors". Especially if they plan to run with this continuity for years to come. You gots to start em off young.

 

if it's any consolation, by the time number 2 comes around, you can say they've all been in space for years now and have gained a lot of experience.

 

As for the "plot holes" Arrow listed, they MAY be plot holes, but they're more or less cosmetic plot holes (window on the bridge? Station locations on the ship? Seeing Vulcan implode from Delta Vega? I really don't care). When I think plot holes, I think Superman Returns, where you have a mine field of major plot holes that really makes you wonder how no body could speak up at the time they were making it and say, "Uhhhmmmm....this doens't make sense." Everything from sketchy cronology (the age of Lois' kid vs the time he must have been conceived) and major out-of-character moments (Supes not even telling Lois he's leaving). Yeah.

 

I don't know why Data didn't wear blue...

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Oh to answer Arrow's question as to why the new Enterprise Engineering section looked like a brewery? Because they used a Budwiser plant for the set.

 

I know. <frowns>

 

 

It begs the question: if they intended the engineering spaces to have easy access to stuff........then why isn't the rest of the ship the same way. One part of the ship is touch pad controls and holographic displays and the other is wheel and lever valves, and chain hoists.

Why have two completely polar opposite design schemes?

The original Trek, for all its vague technology, at least had a coherent, consistent design philosophy throughout.

 

But when it comes to the new Star Trek being drastically different than the old Star Trek...how is it drastically different?

Its mostly in the window-dressing, for me. Conceptually, its basically the same; a "wagon train to the stars" space opera. Where it trips up, again for me, is embracing many of the Trek clichés early on.

( Kirk being a lecher, Scotty being shrill from the outset, Chekov having the too-heavy accident and being over-the-top "Russian", thinking the bridge view screen is a window.........etc........ The creators this time around walked up to all of the clichés, and co-opted them! They took the later-caricatures as if they were gospel.)

 

 

Well, to me, to be emotionally compromised on ONE mission shouldn't lead to being court-martialled and grounded for life. Would it ever be taken into consideration that he was on such a personal and emotionally-charged mission? Yeah, he probably should have been confined to his quarters or even the brig until the case could be investigated by Starfleet if you went by regulations. After all, he physically attacked his second-in-command officer. I'm fairly certain there's a regulation that addresses that. (lol) But think about it, considering the crisis at hand, considering what Nero had done, and considering what Spock could contribute as second-in-command, who's gonna press charges? I'm thinking his outstanding acts under enemy fire might negate the one incident on the bridge with Kirk. That would come down to what a review board would say in the end. But I think all of the above would have been considered. Perhaps he could have been on some suspension status until the investigation was over, which could have occured during the possible months that transpired between Nero's demise and Kirk's promotion ceremony...

 

All I can do here is extrapolate based on the canon they have established themselves within the movie.

They have a ship-of-the-line command-crewed by dysfunctionals. Kirk has character traits that should preclude him as a starship captain, under any sensible logic, but the movie shoehorns into the role, saying those very traits are desirable. Insubordination, womanizing, cheating on critical tests, fighting in bar brawls.......this on a guy who is going to represent Earth and the Federation in First Contact missions. The character was rash, impulsive and didn't display any maturity of consideration.

There was no "Kirk" in there........just a hair-gelled action stud.

 

Scotty is another example. He just goes along for the ride from Delta Vega to the Enterprise.......and yet after drying off with a towel.......he get's carte blanche to act as an engineer on the ship. Don't forget he was sent to the Delta Vega outpost as a PUNITIVE measure for incompetence--and yet underwent no redemption. He's just in there to be "Scotty", because Scotty .....well, has always been there.

 

Now, Spock.......

When Spock isn't sucking face with Uhura :huh: , he's being pissy around Kirk.

 

Okay, in some ways giving Spock a pecker makes him a bit more interesting, but its also redundant.......IF they keep Kirk as the ladies-man. These two guys will be hip-humping a swath across the galaxy.

 

Okay, so that is THIS Spock.......new thing......I guess I can accept that.

 

But then he's got this temper that is so close to the surface, coupled with his "emotional compromise", and the character isn't even "logically" illogical any more. Its like he's now 3/4s human and 1/4 Vulcan.

When he's not sucking Uhura's face.

 

I just don't know if I find him as cool as the original was, I find nothing admirable about this new impulsive, hair-trigger Spock. Differences, for the sake of being different again. The original was an alien, who was discovering his humanity, and this new one seems like a human discovering he's alien. That just does not work for me.

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All I can do here is extrapolate based on the canon they have established themselves within the movie.

They have a ship-of-the-line command-crewed by dysfunctionals. Kirk has character traits that should preclude him as a starship captain, under any sensible logic, but the movie shoehorns into the role, saying those very traits are desirable. Insubordination, womanizing, cheating on critical tests, fighting in bar brawls.......this on a guy who is going to represent Earth and the Federation in First Contact missions. The character was rash, impulsive and didn't display any maturity of consideration.

There was no "Kirk" in there........just a hair-gelled action stud.

 

Okay...taken at face value, the way the "classic" crew came together in this film may seem a little too haphazard and a little too coincidental. BUT...upon multiple viewings, for me at least, it's a very interesting and entertaining way for it to happen. So what are we to expect, that the origin story would portray these cadets predictably coming together under the command of Capt. Pike, and then they proceed to gain their experience under the threat of an alien/human antagonist and/or discover new alien species? To me that would be the definition of boring. I think the movie is dynamic, exciting, and it makes you view everything that has happened in the past or would have happened in the future through the lens of Nero's disruption of the timeline. It just made perfect sense to me that if you're gonna reboot the Trek universe, the only way to do it is design it as a time-altering adventure like so many past episodes and movies were. I prefer that much more than saying, "Everything you knew about Star Trek...is WRONG!!" Or..."This ain't you're DADDY'S STAR TREK!!" (lol) They wanted to make it new and interesting again, yet they retained the spirit of the original, and they didn't disregard what came before. I felt it was the perfect way to reinvigorate the franchise.

 

And speaking of the new Kirk, I too initially felt he was a little too "bumbly" and silly to be the great James T. Kirk we all know and love. But the more I watch this film, the more I see the gradual transition from cocky, hot-headed, skirt-chasing, immature James Kirk to the more level-headed, strategic, professional captain that is destined for greatness. If you go back and watch it, the change happens right around the time he meets Spock Prime, and it's very subtle. By the time he takes command from Spock, he's beginning to look, act, and sound more like Captain Kirk. And I didn't really notice it until the fifth or sixth viewing. (Yeah...I love watching it. I'm obsessed. I'm watching it right now!!) (lol)

 

Scotty is another example. He just goes along for the ride from Delta Vega to the Enterprise.......and yet after drying off with a towel.......he get's carte blanche to act as an engineer on the ship. Don't forget he was sent to the Delta Vega outpost as a PUNITIVE measure for incompetence--and yet underwent no redemption. He's just in there to be "Scotty", because Scotty .....well, has always been there.

 

Now I might agree with this one. I'm not sure what qualified him for this particular mission. Perhaps Kirk was trusting Spock Prime since he knew who Scotty was, that maybe he deserved a place of command. But that would be a stretch. Just because it was Scotty, and I liked the character playing him, I didn't care why he got the position. (lol)

 

Now, Spock.......

When Spock isn't sucking face with Uhura :huh: , he's being pissy around Kirk.

 

Okay, in some ways giving Spock a pecker makes him a bit more interesting, but its also redundant.......IF they keep Kirk as the ladies-man. These two guys will be hip-humping a swath across the galaxy.

 

Okay, so that is THIS Spock.......new thing......I guess I can accept that.

 

But then he's got this temper that is so close to the surface, coupled with his "emotional compromise", and the character isn't even "logically" illogical any more. Its like he's now 3/4s human and 1/4 Vulcan.

When he's not sucking Uhura's face.

 

To me, it's interesting to think that he's fighting to supress a combination of human and Vulcan emotion, emotion that can run deeper than human emotion, according to Sarek. That's an interesting disposition that I never considered before. So that means Spock would have to work twice as hard to embrace his logical Vulcan nature. That makes for a more interesting character in my mind.

 

And I must point out, in early episodes of the original series, on several occaisions, there was alot of sexual tension between Uhura and Spock. I was suprised to discover that, and it made their "hooking-up" in the movie make more sense.

 

I just don't know if I find him as cool as the original was, I find nothing admirable about this new impulsive, hair-trigger Spock. Differences, for the sake of being different again. The original was an alien, who was discovering his humanity, and this new one seems like a human discovering he's alien. That just does not work for me.

 

I understand your point, ARROW. The original Spock was always cool and calm-headed. So whenever hints of his humanity emerged every now and then, it was fun to watch. Having said that, I feel that the new Spock is cool as well. But you must consider his circumstances in the film if he seems impulsive and tempermental; he's seen as more of an outcast in his own society than in the original continuity. His human nature was never much of an issue in the original series, unless I've just missed some episodes. And ALOT happens to Spock in this film; he watches helplessly as his homeworld is destroyed, his mother killed, and his authority is challenged by someone he initially detests, someone who is given so much benefit of the doubt by his captain, unreasonably in his mind...poor Spock is put through the wringer! (lol) And it all goes a long way to show that deep down Spock is half human, and those human passions and emotions he tries so hard to deny and ignore are still there. It's a great take on Spock to me personally. At the end of the day though, no one will ever do Spock like Leonard Nemoy. Zachary Quinto is great, but he'll always (although understandibly) be an imitation. But if you're gonna continue to explore these characters in future films, someone's gotta play him, and I think Quinto is an excellent choice.

 

And ARROW...don't you just love how they incorporated alot of the sound effects from the original series? That's another nice touch that I love about the new film.

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Keep in mind Kirk knew from Spock Prime that Scotty was a brilliant engineer and destined to be the ships chief engineer, not to mention Scotty just performed a major feet by beaming them on board from a planet while the ship moved at warp speed. Seems like pretty good qualifications to me, and I'm sure like with the Doctor they would just say the ships previous engineer was killed in the attack by Nero and there was a hole that needed to be filled immediately and Scotty was the most qualified to do that, and Scotty was someone Kirk who was now in command trusted.

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As for Kirk, Pike for whatever reason had tremendous respect for Kirk's father and saw many of the same things in Kirk, therefore he seemed to pull a number of strings for Kirk. Who knows who Kirk impressed or what he did during those years off camera while in the academy. The cheating on the test showed original thinking and an ability to cheat death which are traits that Kirk shows time and time again and I think are good qualities for a starship captain. Kirk has never been a traditional officer and in fact many times butted heads with many people in Starfleet over the years, and prob why he didn't last long as an Admiral. Regardless of that his results as a Starship Captain as unorthodox as they often appear get the job done when others fail. I do think that this Kirk who seems to have raised in the ranks much faster than Kirk Prime will likely have to deal with problems liking gaining the respect of crew members as he goes along. Kirk Prime raised up in the ranks as a Lt. and I believe a commander before making Captain, though faster than most he did pay his dues in the ranks. This new version has not and so probably a lot of older officers will likely at first find it hard to take commands from someone so young, and perhaps that is an angle we will see play out in future movies?

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Finally for Spock, Spock has demonstrated a temper more than once in the past and the struggles of balancing his human and vulcan sides. That is the thing that makes Spock so interesting. Spock here is also much younger than when we first see Spock Prime in TOS and therefore it makes sense that he doesn't control his emotions quit as well at this point in his life, especially under the circumstances of this movie. Oh and Spock sucking face isn't totally new either. They basically played with this idea in TOS with him and nurse chappel, they just were never quit as blunt about it as they were with him and Uhurah in this movie, but to me its the same idea.

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I initially thought the same thing about Spock, how we're seeing the younger version that's grappling with his identity. But in reality Zachary Quinto's just about the same age Nimoy was when he played the original Spock in the series. I was suprised by that since I thought Quinto was somewhat younger. But I think you pretty much nailed everything else JayC.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

I was continuing through DS9 and realized ath Jadzia was wearing blue. She is listed as the cheif science officer, like Spock. Didn't data fill that role too? I'm not sure what Data's official role was, he wasn't reporting to Geordi or Forge, but to the captain, so i'd guess he was Cheif science officer. Anyone know for sure?

 

I'm also curious as to why some of them like Troy and Six of 9 got to wear specaility uniforms. I always figured Uhara was some kind of "space pentecostal" and didn't believe women should wear pants. But I don't see any reason why the other two ladies named got special uniforms.

 

Anyone else catch any weird uniform questions? or maybe could answer mine?

 

Data was 3rd officer and the head operations officer.

 

Troi was allowed to wear "special" cloathjing because of her role as councilor.Civilian apparel makes patients feel more at ease.

 

70f9 was not a member of Starfleet.

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I wish I could answer your question or the one thats always bugged me: Why couldn't Data get promoted in 15+ years?

 

DIdn't he get a commander rank in the TNG movies? I know worf did.

 

No and no.

 

Data was going to be promoted in Nemises but was killed before it happened.

 

Worf was only promoted to LT.commander.

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There were promotions during the shows run.

 

Data started as a lieutenant, so did Geordi and Worf. Both of the later were lieutenant junior grade in the first season. By the end of the show, Geordi and Data were lieutenant commanders. Worf became a lieutenant commander in Star Trek Generations. Troi was actually a lieutenant commander for all seven seasons. TNG, DS9, and Voyager all saw promotions and demotions. The only crew that was never promoted was Star Trek Enterprise.

 

Data wore gold because he was a operations officer. I bet the show did this because his white make up would have clashed with the blue uniform. Enterprise D technically did not have a chief science officer nore did Voyager. DS9 was really the only show to have a Spock equivalent.

 

I think I have officially proved how much of a nerd I am.

 

Its true Data first had LT marking on his collor...but he was always called a LT Commander.

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I was continuing through DS9 and realized ath Jadzia was wearing blue. She is listed as the cheif science officer, like Spock. Didn't data fill that role too? I'm not sure what Data's official role was, he wasn't reporting to Geordi or Forge, but to the captain, so i'd guess he was Cheif science officer. Anyone know for sure?

 

I'm also curious as to why some of them like Troy and Six of 9 got to wear specaility uniforms. I always figured Uhara was some kind of "space pentecostal" and didn't believe women should wear pants. But I don't see any reason why the other two ladies named got special uniforms.

 

Anyone else catch any weird uniform questions? or maybe could answer mine?

 

Data was 3rd officer and the head operations officer.

 

Troi was allowed to wear "special" cloathjing because of her role as councilor.Civilian apparel makes patients feel more at ease.

 

70f9 was not a member of Starfleet.

 

Thanks for the info. But didn't 7 of 9 wear a star fleet comm badge? I wasn't a voyager fan, especially by the point she was on the show.

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