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Who is stronger Superman or Captain Marvel


Superpowers1980

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Marvel has not produced any really decent comics in the past 25 years. Civil War was a great read until the end...no pay off, that is the Marvel way.

 

I have to beg to differ, mainly to mention Peter David's Incredible Hulk run.

 

I'd add Marvels to that. The Death of Captain America arc, Avengers Disassembled, House of M as well. I heard that Annihilation, and the first arc of the Ultimates were well regarded too. There have been runs with good material: Alan Davis on X-men, Avengers and Fantastic Four--Kurt Busiek and George Perez on Avengers. There's a lot of good work and stories there that simply cannot be dismissed with the wave of a hand.

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Marvel has not produced any really decent comics in the past 25 years. Civil War was a great read until the end...no pay off, that is the Marvel way.

 

I have to beg to differ, mainly to mention Peter David's Incredible Hulk run.

 

I'd add Marvels to that. The Death of Captain America arc, Avengers Disassembled, House of M as well. I heard that Annihilation, and the first arc of the Ultimates were well regarded too. There have been runs with good material: Alan Davis on X-men, Avengers and Fantastic Four--Kurt Busiek and George Perez on Avengers. There's a lot of good work and stories there that simply cannot be dismissed with the wave of a hand.

 

Basically, just about everything written by Brubaker, David, Pak, Millar, Aaron, and Fraction. I like Bendis' stuff too.

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HarryWildman wrote:

 

the original Infinity Guantlet

 

I thought it sucked. Good concept at first, but then they went right into the idiotic "let's use Eternity and Galactus as cosmic punching bags" syndrome that's afflicted Marvel ever since Secret Wars. And the whole "let's make Thanos tougher than Darkseid" rip-off nonsense. There was a time when Thanos was a cool villain. Infinity Gauntlet was the nail in the coffin that ruined him.

 

And I really don't wish to derail the topic any further (if anyone is actually even discussing it anymore), but, with all due respect, how are DC's big summer blockbuster miniseries any different from the "Marvel way"?

 

There is no difference. They both suck. Secret Wars started it all. DC jumped in with Crisis On Infinite Earths. And then they both milked the whole concept with Secret Wars II and the Mutant Massacre and all the numerous DC Crises and the Marvel Infinity Gauntlet rehashes. Comics went to hell in the mate 80's and have never recovered.

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A great point was made, regardless of your personal feelings, Superman met Thor in a match head-on and lost. Not only did Superman survive the onslaught of magic lightning and the raw strength of Thor, he stopped his most powerful weapon and knocked him out....from a crouching position no less. Thor is strong, but his magical hammer really sets him apart, how many people do you think he could best without it. Also in Marvel's own movie Hulk vs Thor....Thor got it handed to him.

 

Ugh, bringing it back... JLA/Avengers is DC cannon not Marvel. The Thor Superman fight in issue 2 was not from fan polls but was plotted out and written by the creative team. Marvel produced issues 1 and 3 and DC produced issues 2 and 4. The fight took place in a DC produced book. http://marvel.com/bl...voort/entry/846

 

As to Hulk and Thor, when he doesn't care about harming him or people nearby, again:

3.jpg

We view the Hulk vs Thor movie as Marvel Elseworlds! ;) hahaha

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A great point was made, regardless of your personal feelings, Superman met Thor in a match head-on and lost. Not only did Superman survive the onslaught of magic lightning and the raw strength of Thor, he stopped his most powerful weapon and knocked him out....from a crouching position no less. Thor is strong, but his magical hammer really sets him apart, how many people do you think he could best without it. Also in Marvel's own movie Hulk vs Thor....Thor got it handed to him.

 

Ugh, bringing it back... JLA/Avengers is DC cannon not Marvel. The Thor Superman fight in issue 2 was not from fan polls but was plotted out and written by the creative team. Marvel produced issues 1 and 3 and DC produced issues 2 and 4. The fight took place in a DC produced book. http://marvel.com/bl...voort/entry/846

 

As to Hulk and Thor, when he doesn't care about harming him or people nearby, again:

 

We view the Hulk vs Thor movie as Marvel Elseworlds! wink.gif hahaha

How is it DC canon.....Hawkeye was the one who ended the whole struggle and Thor provided Superman the means to break through the end barrier. The article you present doesn't show DC in a bad light, it actually shows that it was a fair and balanced fight determined by the writers. Marvel fans are as biased as anyone else. Also I still haven't read anything about the DC producing certain books especially since it was a marvel writer who wrote the whole thing. In this fight Superman found Thor's measure and met him on it, that it was why he said the dials on his world go to eleven

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There is no difference. They both suck. Secret Wars started it all. DC jumped in with Crisis On Infinite Earths. And then they both milked the whole concept with Secret Wars II and the Mutant Massacre and all the numerous DC Crises and the Marvel Infinity Gauntlet rehashes. Comics went to hell in the mate 80's and have never recovered.

 

I think the big gap between opinions on this board (I, of course, could be WAY off) is it seems their is a camp of people who think comics ended in 1979 and others who are more familiar with the 80's and moving forward. This, by no means, is an attack on anyone's opinion, but merely an observation. I started reading comics in either 89 or 90 (I was 9 or 10 respectively) and the last 30 years is what I know best.

 

Obviously, I do know comics before hand and I'm knowledgeable on the Golden and Silver Age, but they are seen in the same light as movies, TV, toylines, etc that came before then - precursors to my childhood. Point being - I don't think the comics that I read are written by hacks or drooling fanboys. Sure, I haven't agreed with everything and sometimes am very unhappy at the conclusion of certain stories. But, that's the same for any avenue of entertainment I enjoy. People don't think like me and won't write like me.

 

The way I have always looked at it (in dealing with comics, novels, TV, movies, etc...) is: did it entertain me and did I enjoy it? If yes - then it was A-okay in my book.

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Marvel has not produced any really decent comics in the past 25 years. Civil War was a great read until the end...no pay off, that is the Marvel way.

 

I have to beg to differ, mainly to mention Peter David's Incredible Hulk run. To me, those stories are more important than Watchmen and Dark Knight, because he brought a level of respect for the characters and sophistication that was rare in comics, and it had to be done in a regular monthly title meant to be suitable for all audiences. And this was accomplished using the Hulk, of all characters. I love ol' Jadejaws, but certain incarnations of the character are admittedly limited in story potential. As for other Hulk eras from the past few years, I wasn't the biggest fan of the Bruce Jones stuff but it was enjoyable to me in some ways. And the Greg Pak Planet Hulk era was great as well. There have been many other well crafted comics in recent years, IMO. Linsner's Dawn, Liberty Meadows, the original Infinity Guantlet... I currently enjoy Booster Gold and Incredible Hercules a lot. Just because one doesn't like certain titles or isn't aware of them doesn't mean that everything sucks.

 

And I really don't wish to derail the topic any further (if anyone is actually even discussing it anymore), but, with all due respect, how are DC's big summer blockbuster miniseries any different from the "Marvel way"? I've been enjoying Blackest Night so far, as well as some of the complimentary titles like Blackest Night: Batman. But ultimately, it won't have any more resolution than Civil War did.

 

Maybe 25 years are a bit of an exaggeration I did enjoy his Hulk run and how he meshed all those personalitites together. After him I stopped reading Hulk until Planet Hulk. I am not aware of everything, same deal as you, but I was a serious Marvel reader when the books were good, but caught on that the titles were going nowhere and marvel just can't flesh out resolutions....X-Men, Spider-Man and Hulk books started to really suck and didn't have ending. I think you are taking extreme liberties when talking about pay-off's concerning DC, you mentioned titles that aren't even finish to cover the horrible reality of Marvel's Civil War deal. Marvel is the one with the history of providing no final ending, not DC. Shall I recant the Hulk vs Drax the Destroyer comic...fans demanded it and you see what happened...total, historical marvel cop'out.

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It's pretty safe to mark 1986 as the year comics ended by taking a shotgun to their own head. Sadly, we now have a whole generation of comic fans who grew up reading the Death of Superman, Extinction Agenda, the Clone Saga, Operation: Galactic Storm, Hush, the Long Halloween, and many other unrestrained bad ideas given form and regard these as classics. They don't know any better. They aren't aware that they read the compromised product of poor talent mismanaged by even-worse editors. They are like self-described sports fans who's only familiarity with sports comes from WWF wrestling!

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It's pretty safe to mark 1986 as the year comics ended by taking a shotgun to their own head. Sadly, we now have a whole generation of comic fans who grew up reading the Death of Superman, Extinction Agenda, the Clone Saga, Operation: Galactic Storm, Hush, the Long Halloween, and many other unrestrained bad ideas given form and regard these as classics. They don't know any better. They aren't aware that they read the compromised product of poor talent mismanaged by even-worse editors. They are like self-described sports fans who's only familiarity with sports comes from WWF wrestling!

Out of all of those, I actually did like the Death of Superman, all the others were I guess just as you say, especially the one where Clayface pretends to be Robin or something...blah.

 

Truthfully, both companies have reached this odd peak where they need to be totally refreshed without some type of big crossover event. To be honest for the past couple of years the Superman books have been fluid, what really stamped them out was Superman Returns in which the company changed history to suit the movie. For years it just seemed like you were living life right alongside Superman until it all went downhill.

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How is it DC canon.....Hawkeye was the one who ended the whole struggle and Thor provided Superman the means to break through the end barrier. The article you present doesn't show DC in a bad light, it actually shows that it was a fair and balanced fight determined by the writers. Marvel fans are as biased as anyone else. Also I still haven't read anything about the DC producing certain books especially since it was a marvel writer who wrote the whole thing. In this fight Superman found Thor's measure and met him on it, that it was why he said the dials on his world go to eleven

 

DC people are saying it's canon b/c the Cosmic Egg later appeared in JLA: http://www.extrano.eu/entropy_dc_comics_en.html

 

The article was to show that the Thor/Superman fight was not from fan polls but from writers and producers who blocked out the entire thing.

 

And where do you get Kurt Busiek is a Marvel writer?! He's written for Dark Horse, Image, Marvel, Wildstorm AND DC! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Busiek#Bibliography

 

Again, if you want to use JLA/Avengers totally for your argument then:

 

-Wolverine beat Lobo.

 

-Lobo beat Superman.

 

-Which means that

 

WOLVERINE WOULD KICK SUPERMAN'S ASS!

 

And that's just dumb and one of the reasons not to use dumb writing in arguments! hahahaha Besides, Storm beat Wonderwoman and that's just 'tarded... ;)

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Too me the only thing that can kick Supermans ass would be Doomsday

 

Don't be foolish Logan could never fare with the Man of Steel and stop thinking that everybody in the Marvel Universe can beat him.Thats just nonsense

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Maybe 25 years are a bit of an exaggeration I did enjoy his Hulk run and how he meshed all those personalitites together. After him I stopped reading Hulk until Planet Hulk.

 

The Professor and Pantheon era was great, but it was the grey Hulk stories and his later stint as Mr. Fixit that really exemplify what he brought to it. I'm not a blind follower of anyones work, even if I admire it... I didn't think everything about the PAD run was perfect, but far more often than not it was close enough. PAD did return to write Hulk for a few issues just before the events that would lead to Planet Hulk. I think Brubaker's Captain America and Fraction's Iron Man were mentioned as more modern examples of good runs. I've thought those were good, as well.

 

I think you are taking extreme liberties when talking about pay-off's concerning DC, you mentioned titles that aren't even finish to cover the horrible reality of Marvel's Civil War deal.

 

Fair enough, sir, and a good point. BN has not reached its conclusion yet, so maybe it's not the best title to choose as a comparison. But what I meant is that, most people are now aware that there will be subsequent follow-ups like Brightest Day. It's not like BN will say "The End" in the last panel in issue eight, and everything that happened throughout the entire story will be resolved. It'll probably say something like, "stay tuned for Brightest Day" lol

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How is it DC canon.....Hawkeye was the one who ended the whole struggle and Thor provided Superman the means to break through the end barrier. The article you present doesn't show DC in a bad light, it actually shows that it was a fair and balanced fight determined by the writers. Marvel fans are as biased as anyone else. Also I still haven't read anything about the DC producing certain books especially since it was a marvel writer who wrote the whole thing. In this fight Superman found Thor's measure and met him on it, that it was why he said the dials on his world go to eleven

 

DC people are saying it's canon b/c the Cosmic Egg later appeared in JLA: http://www.extrano.e..._comics_en.html

 

The article was to show that the Thor/Superman fight was not from fan polls but from writers and producers who blocked out the entire thing.

 

And where do you get Kurt Busiek is a Marvel writer?! He's written for Dark Horse, Image, Marvel, Wildstorm AND DC! http://en.wikipedia....ek#Bibliography

 

Again, if you want to use JLA/Avengers totally for your argument then:

 

-Wolverine beat Lobo.

 

-Lobo beat Superman.

 

-Which means that

 

WOLVERINE WOULD KICK SUPERMAN'S ASS!

 

And that's just dumb and one of the reasons not to use dumb writing in arguments! hahahaha Besides, Storm beat Wonderwoman and that's just 'tarded... wink.gif

 

At the time of him writing the book he was a Marvel writer.

 

I don't really even know how to address that version of DC/Marvel regarding Wolverine and Lobo....it was a lame excuse to add Wolverine and possibly a hurried attempt to find a counterpart in Lobo, same deal with Wonder Woman and Storm.....Wonder Woman alone could possibly kill the entire X-Men team. The JLA/Avengers was a better constructed crossover than the fan poll of DC/Marvel. You can't keep jumping around with these crossovers....one attempts failure does not discredit anothers that was contructed better.

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I think you are taking extreme liberties when talking about pay-off's concerning DC, you mentioned titles that aren't even finish to cover the horrible reality of Marvel's Civil War deal.

 

Fair enough, sir, and a good point. BN has not reached its conclusion yet, so maybe it's not the best title to choose as a comparison. But what I meant is that, most people are now aware that there will be subsequent follow-ups like Brightest Day. It's not like BN will say "The End" in the last panel in issue eight, and everything that happened throughout the entire story will be resolved. It'll probably say something like, "stay tuned for Brightest Day" lol

Well that is a problematic issues with DC lately....I loved 52 and didn't like Countdown at all, so hopefully Brightest Day will offer a new direction and reawakening as opposed to just changing Blackest Night title but really remaining the same story. I just think overall (going by the past) that DC does offer big endings (Death of the new gods, world war 3, the joker one where he stills Mxy's power) especially in the past 10 years or longer.

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I don't really even know how to address that version of DC/Marvel regarding Wolverine and Lobo....it was a lame excuse to add Wolverine and possibly a hurried attempt to find a counterpart in Lobo, same deal with Wonder Woman and Storm.....Wonder Woman alone could possibly kill the entire X-Men team. The JLA/Avengers was a better constructed crossover than the fan poll of DC/Marvel. You can't keep jumping around with these crossovers....one attempts failure does not discredit anothers that was contructed better.

 

See, you think those characters would win! But it didn't happen because of bad writing... That's the point! ;)

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How is it DC canon.....Hawkeye was the one who ended the whole struggle and Thor provided Superman the means to break through the end barrier. The article you present doesn't show DC in a bad light, it actually shows that it was a fair and balanced fight determined by the writers. Marvel fans are as biased as anyone else. Also I still haven't read anything about the DC producing certain books especially since it was a marvel writer who wrote the whole thing. In this fight Superman found Thor's measure and met him on it, that it was why he said the dials on his world go to eleven

 

DC people are saying it's canon b/c the Cosmic Egg later appeared in JLA: http://www.extrano.e..._comics_en.html

 

The article was to show that the Thor/Superman fight was not from fan polls but from writers and producers who blocked out the entire thing.

 

And where do you get Kurt Busiek is a Marvel writer?! He's written for Dark Horse, Image, Marvel, Wildstorm AND DC! http://en.wikipedia....ek#Bibliography

 

Again, if you want to use JLA/Avengers totally for your argument then:

 

-Wolverine beat Lobo.

 

-Lobo beat Superman.

 

-Which means that

 

WOLVERINE WOULD KICK SUPERMAN'S ASS!

 

And that's just dumb and one of the reasons not to use dumb writing in arguments! hahahaha Besides, Storm beat Wonderwoman and that's just 'tarded... wink.gif

 

 

lobo has been portrayed at times to only be a little stronger than a human.

  • Superhuman Strength: Varies greatly from writer to writer. Lobo has shown strength sufficient enough to knock out Superman with his blows without too much apparent effort, but at times is barely able to pick up cars.

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lobo has been portrayed at times to only be a little stronger than a human.

  • Superhuman Strength: Varies greatly from writer to writer. Lobo has shown strength sufficient enough to knock out Superman with his blows without too much apparent effort, but at times is barely able to pick up cars.

 

Hey, he beat Superman and in the JLA/Avengers Wolverine beat him, so according to the logic of anyone using that comic in arguments... Wolverine would kick Superman's ass!

 

And again that's ##$%$#ed and that's why something with dumb writing shouldn't be used in arguments! And no you can't pick and choose parts of a poorly written book - if you choose one part you have to choose everything in it! hahaha ;)

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lobo has been portrayed at times to only be a little stronger than a human.

  • Superhuman Strength: Varies greatly from writer to writer. Lobo has shown strength sufficient enough to knock out Superman with his blows without too much apparent effort, but at times is barely able to pick up cars.

 

Hey, he beat Superman and in the JLA/Avengers Wolverine beat him, so according to the logic of anyone using that comic in arguments... Wolverine would kick Superman's ass

 

And again that's ##$%$#ed and that's why something with dumb writing shouldn't be used in arguments! And no you can't pick and choose parts of a poorly written book - if you choose one part you have to choose everything in it! hahaha ;)

 

 

No he can't

 

Those blades couldn't even pentrate Supermans skin

 

I bet the Dark Knight could beat Wolverine

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Those blades couldn't even pentrate Supermans skin

 

Wolverine's claws are completely illogical, and always have been.

Best way to illustrate this to grab a knife, and trust it into a plate of steel, or concrete--or a similar resilient substance.

 

Doesn't go so well, does it?

The flaw here is not the claws per se, because they are an "unbreakable" material, but in the Wolverine's arms--which can only generate so many foot-pounds of pressure before the material defeats his efforts. The claws themselves will not do any damage if the force required to penetrate the material is not there. Wolverine just does not have that measure of super-strength.

 

And yet...........they have these stories that contend he can make a shish-kebab of the Hulk--a character who can supposedly withstand penetration of bullets and cannon shells fired at him--just like Superman. So if this is the case, as far as story canon goes, it begs the question of just how does Adamantium really works. Is it simply an inert substance of incredible resilience, or does it have some kind of quality that allows it it to cut through the valences of the atoms of another substance, when in a cutting form?? Or does Wolverine have other powers that are not acknolwedged yet?

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lobo has been portrayed at times to only be a little stronger than a human.

  • Superhuman Strength: Varies greatly from writer to writer. Lobo has shown strength sufficient enough to knock out Superman with his blows without too much apparent effort, but at times is barely able to pick up cars.

 

Hey, he beat Superman and in the JLA/Avengers Wolverine beat him, so according to the logic of anyone using that comic in arguments... Wolverine would kick Superman's ass

 

And again that's ##$%$#ed and that's why something with dumb writing shouldn't be used in arguments! And no you can't pick and choose parts of a poorly written book - if you choose one part you have to choose everything in it! hahaha ;)

 

 

No he can't

 

Those blades couldn't even pentrate Supermans skin

 

I bet the Dark Knight could beat Wolverine

You don't understand what NewGuy is saying. He's just explaining that if you want to use the Superman/Thor fight as a evidence of Superman being able to beat Thor, then you have to include this other bit too. Obviously it doesn't make sense, which throws out the Superman/Thor fight.

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lobo has been portrayed at times to only be a little stronger than a human.

  • Superhuman Strength: Varies greatly from writer to writer. Lobo has shown strength sufficient enough to knock out Superman with his blows without too much apparent effort, but at times is barely able to pick up cars.

 

Hey, he beat Superman and in the JLA/Avengers Wolverine beat him, so according to the logic of anyone using that comic in arguments... Wolverine would kick Superman's ass

 

And again that's ##$%$#ed and that's why something with dumb writing shouldn't be used in arguments! And no you can't pick and choose parts of a poorly written book - if you choose one part you have to choose everything in it! hahaha wink.gif

 

 

No he can't

 

Those blades couldn't even pentrate Supermans skin

 

I bet the Dark Knight could beat Wolverine

You don't understand what NewGuy is saying. He's just explaining that if you want to use the Superman/Thor fight as a evidence of Superman being able to beat Thor, then you have to include this other bit too. Obviously it doesn't make sense, which throws out the Superman/Thor fight.

 

No, it suits your need to have Thor more powerful than Superman. Ok, since Venom punched out Juggernaut due to some bad writing, does that mean that even in the idea of created characters mean that Venom could punch out Juggernaut....the answer is NO. The difference is that Superman and Thor are in the same class/level and its has a high probablity that either one could win. Superman won, end of story. You can't use a weak story to warrant another story, if that is the case then here. Since Venom can beat Juggernaut and Juggernaut is the near equal of Thor (you determine higher or lower) then we know Venom could beat Thor....and this is all Marvel stuff

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That reminds me of the very beginning of DC vs Marvel when Juggernaut went to punch Wolverine but he disappered and a building showed up ....It turned out it was the Daily Planet building and then the next thing we see is Juggernaut being punched and flying backwards then sitting on the ground looking like he was hit be a train then we see Superman hovering above him saying "Nobody hits buildings in my town"

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lobo has been portrayed at times to only be a little stronger than a human.

  • Superhuman Strength: Varies greatly from writer to writer. Lobo has shown strength sufficient enough to knock out Superman with his blows without too much apparent effort, but at times is barely able to pick up cars.

 

Hey, he beat Superman and in the JLA/Avengers Wolverine beat him, so according to the logic of anyone using that comic in arguments... Wolverine would kick Superman's ass

 

And again that's ##$%$#ed and that's why something with dumb writing shouldn't be used in arguments! And no you can't pick and choose parts of a poorly written book - if you choose one part you have to choose everything in it! hahaha wink.gif

 

 

No he can't

 

Those blades couldn't even pentrate Supermans skin

 

I bet the Dark Knight could beat Wolverine

You don't understand what NewGuy is saying. He's just explaining that if you want to use the Superman/Thor fight as a evidence of Superman being able to beat Thor, then you have to include this other bit too. Obviously it doesn't make sense, which throws out the Superman/Thor fight.

 

No, it suits your need to have Thor more powerful than Superman. Ok, since Venom punched out Juggernaut due to some bad writing, does that mean that even in the idea of created characters mean that Venom could punch out Juggernaut....the answer is NO. The difference is that Superman and Thor are in the same class/level and its has a high probablity that either one could win. Superman won, end of story. You can't use a weak story to warrant another story, if that is the case then here. Since Venom can beat Juggernaut and Juggernaut is the near equal of Thor (you determine higher or lower) then we know Venom could beat Thor....and this is all Marvel stuff

 

No, you're still not getting it. Power level has nothing to do with it, that is not at all what we are saying. Read what BigBot84 said. I'll say it again, we are talking about bad writing and how you cannot use bad writing as evidence in an argument. hahahaha

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Superman hovering above him saying "Nobody hits buildings in my town"

 

 

damn straight! i dont even like supes, and i know that no one can defeat him over all! (bad or good writing)

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Superman hovering above him saying "Nobody hits buildings in my town"

 

 

damn straight! i dont even like supes, and i know that no one can defeat him over all! (bad or good writing)

 

He sounds like God when you talk about him! hahaha ;)

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