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Who is stronger Superman or Captain Marvel


Superpowers1980

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i know im late,(hope im not pregnant...lol) but are there people saying that thor can beat superman? thor powers may be based on magic, but that doesnt mean he can beat supes. supes can be hurt by magic, but it doesnt mean he becomes a P*ssy because of it! no one said that once magic is introduced supes has no chance. you guys need to stop fixating on one point, and then running with it. i like thor, but thor has trouble with the hulk...and supes...well...he doesnt. all of you guys bragging about thor should be more worried about some of the other hacks that have been kickin the thunder god's a** up and down comic books.

 

Please read previous comments. smile.gif

Dude, it really doesn't make a difference regarding your comments...Superman has already beat Thor, not only did he beat him, he punched him out from a sitting position after he caught his hammer.

 

This is what you guys don't understand and won't address....Superman fights magical beings all the time. This is how magic works on Superman a regular sword made of steel won't hurt Superman, but a magical one (depending on the magic) may hurt him and break his skin. Magic doesn't automatically win over Superman, its just that his is vulnerable to it. Its listed as a main weakness because he doesn't really have many.

 

Thos is great and even in all he has done as far as sheer strength, he does not compare to Superman. Superman has fought Imperiex, Imperiex has the power to completely destroy a universe, Superman survived direct blasts from him, one even sent him through space. Superman can survive living in the sun a feat both Thor and the Hulk cannot survive. Superman's body is so super-charged it makes his skin almost impervious, that is why he can withstand the temperature of the sun, its not in his ability to absorb sunlight, its what his body does with the energy. Thor can't compare to a man whose skin can withstand the core of the sun, which is what he did when he fought Imperiex, he went to the core of the sun and just took it all in before he moved an entire planet..............give it up, Superman beats Thor!

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i know im late,(hope im not pregnant...lol) but are there people saying that thor can beat superman? thor powers may be based on magic, but that doesnt mean he can beat supes. supes can be hurt by magic, but it doesnt mean he becomes a P*ssy because of it! no one said that once magic is introduced supes has no chance. you guys need to stop fixating on one point, and then running with it. i like thor, but thor has trouble with the hulk...and supes...well...he doesnt. all of you guys bragging about thor should be more worried about some of the other hacks that have been kickin the thunder god's a** up and down comic books.

 

Please read previous comments. smile.gif

 

This is what you guys don't understand and won't address....Superman fights magical beings all the time. This is how magic works on Superman a regular sword made of steel won't hurt Superman, but a magical one (depending on the magic) may hurt him and break his skin. Magic doesn't automatically win over Superman, its just that his is vulnerable to it. Its listed as a main weakness because he doesn't really have many.

 

 

church.

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i know im late,(hope im not pregnant...lol) but are there people saying that thor can beat superman? thor powers may be based on magic, but that doesnt mean he can beat supes. supes can be hurt by magic, but it doesnt mean he becomes a P*ssy because of it! no one said that once magic is introduced supes has no chance. you guys need to stop fixating on one point, and then running with it. i like thor, but thor has trouble with the hulk...and supes...well...he doesnt. all of you guys bragging about thor should be more worried about some of the other hacks that have been kickin the thunder god's a** up and down comic books.

 

If you follow the "logic train" suggest by some above, then Thor can probably beat Superman, and yes, via using magic.

Thor can summon lightning, a phenomena generated by magical powers. He can control this phenomena to any degree, augmenting the lightning as he sees fit. He can zap Superman with this magic-enhanced lightning for as long as necessary, and since Superman has a vulnerability to magic, he's vulnerable to this particular type of lightning.

Now, Billy Batson/Captain Marvel also call upon magic lightning ( maybe even much the same kind), but Batson/Marvel supposedly lack (it is said) something that Thor has: battle-savvy. That, and maturity, make Thor a reasonable match for Superman.

 

The counterpoint here, as shown above, is NOT Superman's strength against Thor--suggested in his stopping a blow by Thor's hammer, by hand.

No, its not strength, but worthiness, that can be the counter here.

Superman can, by rights, be seen to be as noble and worthy to wield the hammer as Thor, or in the above instance, block it. Captain America was once shown to be equally worthy and noble, and Superman is at least of equal standing in that regard.

 

But, again, if Superman could snatch Mjolnir out of the air, causing Thor to transform back to Donald Blake, Blake can always pull a hunk of green K out of his pocket, and then beat weakened Kal-El to a pulp with his cane. And then boots him in the noots. I don't care who they are, no-one takes a boot noot and wins.

All the while, Odin would look on in disdain and then banish Thor off somewhere to learn some more humility.

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Pooda wrote:

 

i know im late,(hope im not pregnant...lol) but are there people saying that thor can beat superman? thor powers may be based on magic, but that doesnt mean he can beat supes. supes can be hurt by magic, but it doesnt mean he becomes a P*ssy because of it! no one said that once magic is introduced supes has no chance. you guys need to stop fixating on one point, and then running with it. i like thor, but thor has trouble with the hulk...and supes...well...he doesnt. all of you guys bragging about thor should be more worried about some of the other hacks that have been kickin the thunder god's a** up and down comic books.

 

Ummm...I think someone clearly hasn't read my post. I covered all this. Twice. In detail.

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Arrow wrote:

 

But, again, if Superman could snatch Mjolnir out of the air, causing Thor to transform back to Donald Blake,

 

Again, we covered why this can't happen. People seem to not be reading replies or something.

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Superpowers1980 wrote:

 

Dude, it really doesn't make a difference regarding your comments...Superman has already beat Thor, not only did he beat him, he punched him out from a sitting position after he caught his hammer.

 

And I already explained why this doesn't matter. Really, do people even listen to what others say anymore?

 

This is what you guys don't understand and won't address....Superman fights magical beings all the time. This is how magic works on Superman a regular sword made of steel won't hurt Superman, but a magical one (depending on the magic) may hurt him and break his skin. Magic doesn't automatically win over Superman, its just that his is vulnerable to it. Its listed as a main weakness because he doesn't really have many.

 

And I covered this in excruciating detail as well.

 

Thos is great and even in all he has done as far as sheer strength, he does not compare to Superman. Superman has fought Imperiex, Imperiex has the power to completely destroy a universe, Superman survived direct blasts from him, one even sent him through space. Superman can survive living in the sun a feat both Thor and the Hulk cannot survive. Superman's body is so super-charged it makes his skin almost impervious, that is why he can withstand the temperature of the sun, its not in his ability to absorb sunlight, its what his body does with the energy. Thor can't compare to a man whose skin can withstand the core of the sun, which is what he did when he fought Imperiex, he went to the core of the sun and just took it all in before he moved an entire planet..............give it up, Superman beats Thor!

 

And yet you conveniently gloss over or ignore everything people have written concerning why Thor should win. Amazing. Not even a reference to an argument made. It's not even a debate when one side ignores the other. :rolleyes:

 

Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent. Thor punched a hole in the armor of a Celestial. Thor drove back Galactus. Thor stood at ground zero of a nuclear cobalt bomb blast and it didn't even knock his helmet off. We can go on and on, but why repeat things people refuse to hear?

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Arrow wrote:

 

But, again, if Superman could snatch Mjolnir out of the air, causing Thor to transform back to Donald Blake,

 

Again, we covered why this can't happen. People seem to not be reading replies or something.

 

Of course it can happen.

 

 

 

If I wrote the story. @smilepunch@

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Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent. Thor punched a hole in the armor of a Celestial. Thor drove back Galactus. Thor stood at ground zero of a nuclear cobalt bomb blast and it didn't even knock his helmet off. We can go on and on, but why repeat things people refuse to hear?

 

1. Superman has lifted or moved objects bigger than the Serpent, also Thor struggled with it.

 

2. Superman has fought DC level Celestials

 

3. Galactus destroys planets, Superman fought being with the power to destroy Universes (Imperiex)

 

4. A single cobalt bomb is not the same as a hundred nuclear explosions, Superman withstood the power of the sun...what don't you get?

 

If I am shot with a BB gun with no real effect, it doesn't mean I can withstand 100 shots from a regular gun, that is how you rate your argument

Also Cobalt bombs don't generate sizeable blasts...look it up...nuclear bombs are tons more powerful and explosive than a cobalt bomb

 

Dude, not only will I meet your every argument, there is tons of proof out there to support it. The reason Superman beat Thor was not an ego thing on DC's part its the reality based on character representation used from prior years. There is a reason the writers left Superman standing n the crossover, he was on the front line with Thor and he made it, Thor didn't. Superman not only caught his hammer in there fight, he knocked him OUT. Thor recently had his amazing ass handed to him by red hulk, not only did he just not lose, he got humbled and the Red Hulk doesn't have that madder I get/stronger thing, he just flat out ass handed Thor....Superman can beat any average Hulk, anyday and has done so on more than one occasion. guitar.gif

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Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent. Thor punched a hole in the armor of a Celestial. Thor drove back Galactus. Thor stood at ground zero of a nuclear cobalt bomb blast and it didn't even knock his helmet off. We can go on and on, but why repeat things people refuse to hear?

 

1. Superman has lifted or moved objects bigger than the Serpent, also Thor struggled with it.

 

2. Superman has fought DC level Celestials

 

3. Galactus destroys planets, Superman fought being with the power to destroy Universes (Imperiex)

 

4. A single cobalt bomb is not the same as a hundred nuclear explosions, Superman withstood the power of the sun...what don't you get?

 

If I am shot with a BB gun with no real effect, it doesn't mean I can withstand 100 shots from a regular gun, that is how you rate your argument

Also Cobalt bombs don't generate sizeable blasts...look it up...nuclear bombs are tons more powerful and explosive than a cobalt bomb

 

Dude, not only will I meet your every argument, there is tons of proof out there to support it. The reason Superman beat Thor was not an ego thing on DC's part its the reality based on character representation used from prior years. There is a reason the writers left Superman standing n the crossover, he was on the front line with Thor and he made it, Thor didn't. Superman not only caught his hammer in there fight, he knocked him OUT. Thor recently had his amazing ass handed to him by red hulk, not only did he just not lose, he got humbled and the Red Hulk doesn't have that madder I get/stronger thing, he just flat out ass handed Thor....Superman can beat any average Hulk, anyday and has done so on more than one occasion. guitar.gif

 

Again, weren't the crossovers decided by the fans? I'm pretty sure the fans voted for the winners.

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Pooda wrote:

 

i know im late,(hope im not pregnant...lol) but are there people saying that thor can beat superman? thor powers may be based on magic, but that doesnt mean he can beat supes. supes can be hurt by magic, but it doesnt mean he becomes a P*ssy because of it! no one said that once magic is introduced supes has no chance. you guys need to stop fixating on one point, and then running with it. i like thor, but thor has trouble with the hulk...and supes...well...he doesnt. all of you guys bragging about thor should be more worried about some of the other hacks that have been kickin the thunder god's a** up and down comic books.

 

Ummm...I think someone clearly hasn't read my post. I covered all this. Twice. In detail.

 

 

youre right..... i dont have the time to read through everyones BS.

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Superpowers1980 wrote:

 

1. Superman has lifted or moved objects bigger than the Serpent, also Thor struggled with it.

 

The Midgard Serpent is larger than a planet.

 

2. Superman has fought DC level Celestials

 

Only in poorly written stories.

 

3. Galactus destroys planets, Superman fought being with the power to destroy Universes (Imperiex)

 

Again, poorly written stories. DC has always had a problem handling power levels. They've never been anywhere near as consistent as Marvel.

 

4. A single cobalt bomb is not the same as a hundred nuclear explosions, Superman withstood the power of the sun...what don't you get?

 

Again, inconsistency problems with DC. They also showed Superman dying from being near a single nuclear blast in Dark Knight. So which is it? Can a nuke kill Superman (which it has) or can it not (which it hasn't)?

 

If I am shot with a BB gun with no real effect, it doesn't mean I can withstand 100 shots from a regular gun, that is how you rate your argument

Also Cobalt bombs don't generate sizeable blasts...look it up...nuclear bombs are tons more powerful and explosive than a cobalt bomb

 

A cobalt bomb is a nuclear bomb, it's just encased in cobalt. It's still a nuclear bomb.

 

Dude, not only will I meet your every argument, there is tons of proof out there to support it. The reason Superman beat Thor was not an ego thing on DC's part its the reality based on character representation used from prior years.

 

And again, this is why we cannot go on mere character representation. It's been changed so much over the years, there's no way to narrow it down to the "correct" version. Which character representation of Superman is correct? The original one who can't fly and can only move as fast as a bullet and can be killed by a mere artillery shell? The Superman who pushes planets out of orbit (which is a physical impossibility by the way)? The Byrne-style toned-down Superman? Which one is the real Superman?

 

Hell, if we go by the original design of the characters (ie going by the intent of their creators), Thor would mop up Superman without even breaking a sweat! And again, as I have repeatedly said, we cannot just simply Marvel characters to DC characters directly because the power levels as portrayed are skewed. They're apples and oranges. So it means looking at more than merely a simplistic "well this happened in this comic". It's too inconsistent.

 

There is a reason the writers left Superman standing n the crossover, he was on the front line with Thor and he made it, Thor didn't. Superman not only caught his hammer in there fight, he knocked him OUT.

 

And again, I see that as typical DC dominance. No one can beat Superman if he's from another company. It's just another example of turning a powerful character into a candy-ass in order to make another character look powerful. It's poor writing.

 

Thor recently had his amazing ass handed to him by red hulk, not only did he just not lose, he got humbled and the Red Hulk doesn't have that madder I get/stronger thing, he just flat out ass handed Thor....Superman can beat any average Hulk, anyday and has done so on more than one occasion

 

And yet again I will repeat myself and say that those are poorly written stories done by crappy writers who don't know how to write. In fact, the very mention of a red Hulk beating Thor simply proves how stupid the Marvel writer was for writing such garbage. Red Hulk is as strong as green Hulk (am I the only one who thinks it's insane to be talking about different colored Hulks?). However, red Hulk does not get stronger the angrier he gets. Green Hulk gets stronger and stronger the angrier he gets. And yet green Hulk, who is not only as strong as red Hulk but gets actually gets stronger the angrier he gets, has never been able to overpower Thor in 30 years of writing, despite the fact that Thor was holding back. Is the utter illogic of that story becoming clear?

 

Which is why I don't rely on modern writers, because they suck. It's that simple. They can't write. They don't know what they're doing, they have no common sense and no sense of character continuity. Since they lack decent writing skills, they substitute insane and idiotic plots and inventions that make no sense and go against 50 years of established continuity. Their idea of "interesting" consists of nothing more than racking up ever-increasing power levels, like video game addicts. They have no talent at all. They simply hold no credibility.

 

Marvel has done the same thing with Hulk that DC did with Superman...inflate his powers until he was so absurdly warped from the original character that it might as well be a different character altogether. Bad writers are just that. Bad. I pay no attention to their nonsense.

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4. A single cobalt bomb is not the same as a hundred nuclear explosions, Superman withstood the power of the sun...what don't you get?

 

If I am shot with a BB gun with no real effect, it doesn't mean I can withstand 100 shots from a regular gun, that is how you rate your argument

Also Cobalt bombs don't generate sizeable blasts...look it up...nuclear bombs are tons more powerful and explosive than a cobalt bomb

 

Dude, not only will I meet your every argument, there is tons of proof out there to support it. The reason Superman beat Thor was not an ego thing on DC's part its the reality based on character representation used from prior years. There is a reason the writers left Superman standing n the crossover, he was on the front line with Thor and he made it, Thor didn't. Superman not only caught his hammer in there fight, he knocked him OUT. Thor recently had his amazing ass handed to him by red hulk, not only did he just not lose, he got humbled and the Red Hulk doesn't have that madder I get/stronger thing, he just flat out ass handed Thor....Superman can beat any average Hulk, anyday and has done so on more than one occasion. @loll@

 

A Cobalt bomb IS a nuclear bomb, Xorr is correct. And when that was written bombs were in the megaton range... @loll@

 

The crossover fight where "Superman beat Thor" was not part of the fan voting. Marvel produced issues 1 and 3 and DC produced issues 2 and 4. At the end of issue 1 the Marvel editorial team gave DC a fun jab by having Thor knock Supes into next week on the last panel. So when DC produced issue 2 their editorial team had Supes beating Thor as payback.

 

And the Rulk (most ##$%$#ed name in comics :P) did indeed humble Thor - as he did to almost every Marvel character. They even had him punching the Watcher (the most ##$%$#ed act in comics! hahaha) But when Thor got back he beat the living piss outta' Rulk and was about to kill him when Hulk and Rick Jones stopped him - Rulk even said so. Just b/c a dumb character in a dumb story beats a character it doesn't mean he should. How many times have we seen Batman make a sap out of Superman when all he'd have to do is fry him extra-crispy with his heat vision? ;)

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Superpowers1980 wrote:

 

1. Superman has lifted or moved objects bigger than the Serpent, also Thor struggled with it.

 

The Midgard Serpent is larger than a planet.

 

2. Superman has fought DC level Celestials

 

Only in poorly written stories.

 

3. Galactus destroys planets, Superman fought being with the power to destroy Universes (Imperiex)

 

Again, poorly written stories. DC has always had a problem handling power levels. They've never been anywhere near as consistent as Marvel.

 

4. A single cobalt bomb is not the same as a hundred nuclear explosions, Superman withstood the power of the sun...what don't you get?

 

Again, inconsistency problems with DC. They also showed Superman dying from being near a single nuclear blast in Dark Knight. So which is it? Can a nuke kill Superman (which it has) or can it not (which it hasn't)?

 

If I am shot with a BB gun with no real effect, it doesn't mean I can withstand 100 shots from a regular gun, that is how you rate your argument

Also Cobalt bombs don't generate sizeable blasts...look it up...nuclear bombs are tons more powerful and explosive than a cobalt bomb

 

A cobalt bomb is a nuclear bomb, it's just encased in cobalt. It's still a nuclear bomb.

 

Dude, not only will I meet your every argument, there is tons of proof out there to support it. The reason Superman beat Thor was not an ego thing on DC's part its the reality based on character representation used from prior years.

 

And again, this is why we cannot go on mere character representation. It's been changed so much over the years, there's no way to narrow it down to the "correct" version. Which character representation of Superman is correct? The original one who can't fly and can only move as fast as a bullet and can be killed by a mere artillery shell? The Superman who pushes planets out of orbit (which is a physical impossibility by the way)? The Byrne-style toned-down Superman? Which one is the real Superman?

 

Hell, if we go by the original design of the characters (ie going by the intent of their creators), Thor would mop up Superman without even breaking a sweat! And again, as I have repeatedly said, we cannot just simply Marvel characters to DC characters directly because the power levels as portrayed are skewed. They're apples and oranges. So it means looking at more than merely a simplistic "well this happened in this comic". It's too inconsistent.

 

There is a reason the writers left Superman standing n the crossover, he was on the front line with Thor and he made it, Thor didn't. Superman not only caught his hammer in there fight, he knocked him OUT.

 

And again, I see that as typical DC dominance. No one can beat Superman if he's from another company. It's just another example of turning a powerful character into a candy-ass in order to make another character look powerful. It's poor writing.

 

Thor recently had his amazing ass handed to him by red hulk, not only did he just not lose, he got humbled and the Red Hulk doesn't have that madder I get/stronger thing, he just flat out ass handed Thor....Superman can beat any average Hulk, anyday and has done so on more than one occasion

 

And yet again I will repeat myself and say that those are poorly written stories done by crappy writers who don't know how to write. In fact, the very mention of a red Hulk beating Thor simply proves how stupid the Marvel writer was for writing such garbage. Red Hulk is as strong as green Hulk (am I the only one who thinks it's insane to be talking about different colored Hulks?). However, red Hulk does not get stronger the angrier he gets. Green Hulk gets stronger and stronger the angrier he gets. And yet green Hulk, who is not only as strong as red Hulk but gets actually gets stronger the angrier he gets, has never been able to overpower Thor in 30 years of writing, despite the fact that Thor was holding back. Is the utter illogic of that story becoming clear?

 

Which is why I don't rely on modern writers, because they suck. It's that simple. They can't write. They don't know what they're doing, they have no common sense and no sense of character continuity. Since they lack decent writing skills, they substitute insane and idiotic plots and inventions that make no sense and go against 50 years of established continuity. Their idea of "interesting" consists of nothing more than racking up ever-increasing power levels, like video game addicts. They have no talent at all. They simply hold no credibility.

 

Marvel has done the same thing with Hulk that DC did with Superman...inflate his powers until he was so absurdly warped from the original character that it might as well be a different character altogether. Bad writers are just that. Bad. I pay no attention to their nonsense.

 

Again, you have defeated yourself in the debate

 

Your worse argument is that "poorly written stories" crap, dude you can't base your argument on that. If anything DC has been more consistent with its character development in the past 25 years than Marvel. You don't need to ever, ever bring up Marvel being consistent when Venom punched out Juggernaut, making Juggernaut run and flee....sheer and utter nonsense. The Hulk has varied levels of strength, again he was punched out by Juggernaut, and Juggy wasn't even wearing his armor.

 

Let me take the time to explain a cobalt bomb to a nuclear bomb. A cobalt bomb is designed differently, it isn't made for exposive impact, its designed for a small impact but with heavy nuclear fallout. A traditional nuclear bomb has the strength to level and entire city, a cobalt CANNOT DO THAT!!! Also regarding your Dark Knight reference.....are you sure it wasn't an Elseworlds tale? If it is, which I do believe, its like taking reference from Marvel's What If titles....its a fantasy title not meant for standard reading, it offers a different take.

 

Now onto this stupid serpent, the serpent Thor fought was NOT LARGER than a planet,

midgardserpent4.jpg

ThorvsJormungand.jpg

midgardserpent2.jpg

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The crossover fight where "Superman beat Thor" was not part of the fan voting. Marvel produced issues 1 and 3 and DC produced issues 2 and 4. At the end of issue 1 the Marvel editorial team gave DC a fun jab by having Thor knock Supes into next week on the last panel. So when DC produced issue 2 their editorial team had Supes beating Thor as payback.

 

And the Rulk (most ##$%$#ed name in comics tongue.gif) did indeed humble Thor - as he did to almost every Marvel character. They even had him punching the Watcher (the most ##$%$#ed act in comics! hahaha) But when Thor got back he beat the living piss outta' Rulk and was about to kill him when Hulk and Rick Jones stopped him - Rulk even said so. Just b/c a dumb character in a dumb story beats a character it doesn't mean he should. How many times have we seen Batman make a sap out of Superman when all he'd have to do is fry him extra-crispy with his heat vision? wink.gif

For most of my knowledge that DC/Marvel story you tell is a lie...I could be wrong but I have never, ever heard or read that. Also all your DC has a ego with Superman is nonsense, especially considering that a marvel writer, wrote the JLA avengers story.

 

Superman vs Batman is always written from a creative standpoint, we all know Superman could fly into space, locate Batman and melt the entire street he was on, but that is too easy and stupid (maybe DC doesn't produce poorly written stories). If you have a problem with Batman then you should have a problem with Lex Luthor because he is human and at times has had the upper hand over supes. In two stories a future Superman had the upper hand and even made a statement about Batman and their conflicts. Stories have to be written with a level of threat, who is more of a threat than Bats?

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And btw, the crossover is not official cannon so here are others' opinions:

 

Wizard magazine's Top Ten Superhero List: http://www.silver-su...t/Top10List.htm

 

Wizard's Last Man Standing had Thor winning with input from both characters' writers

 

And just because it's such a cool visual:

 

3.jpg

 

:D

 

As to Superpowers1980, if you don't like what I said you can google it also. (And I could say some of the things you have said are lies - nice language when people are trying to discuss made up fun characters...)

 

Kurt B has worked for many comic companies not only Marvel so he is not a "Marvel writer." :)

 

So please calm down, you can still like Superman better. Don't feel threatened. hahaha

 

"Superman vs Batman is always written from a creative standpoint, we all know Superman could fly into space, locate Batman and melt the entire street he was on, but that is too easy and stupid (maybe DC doesn't produce poorly written stories)."

 

And Thor could just warp time and space sending Superman into a red star. ;) And DC not producing poorly written stories, ahem, Superman Red, Superman Blue! hahahaha

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And btw, the crossover is not official cannon so here are others' opinions:

 

Wizard magazine's Top Ten Superhero List: http://www.silver-su...t/Top10List.htm

 

 

As to Superpowers1980, if you don't like what I said you can google it also. (And I could say some of the things you have said are lies - nice language when people are trying to discuss made up fun characters...)

 

Kurt B has worked for many comic companies not only Marvel so he is not a "Marvel writer." smile.gif

 

So please calm down, you can still like Superman better. Don't feel threatened. hahaha

 

"Superman vs Batman is always written from a creative standpoint, we all know Superman could fly into space, locate Batman and melt the entire street he was on, but that is too easy and stupid (maybe DC doesn't produce poorly written stories)."

 

And Thor could just warp time and space sending Superman into a red star. wink.gif And DC not producing poorly written stories, ahem, Superman Red, Superman Blue! hahahaha

 

I am just saying that part regarding JLA/Avengers and Thor knocking Superman sounds like crap, and I never ever read that.

 

If you have a problem with Superman red/bue, lets take a look at Ben Reilly, the Scarlet Spider, anyone ever read Venom's mini-series, how about the end of Civil War, hey Mesphito we have no creative end to this nonsense please help us make another reality warping story because we never think that far. Marvel has the biggest non-payoff stories ever. Remember the much demanded fight between Hulk and Drax, please that was a terrible waste of time and nonsense. Ohhh and there is more, remember when Johnny (human torch) had a mutant kid with that skrull......LOL

 

As for Wizard, they have less input than fodder from the comics. Maybe Thor could of whipped Superman around 85/89, but DC in their creative writing efforts gradually increased Superman's powers to where we are at today, over the course of 25 years they developed Superman into one of the industries best books, Marvel ruined their books...like who even reads Spiderman anymore, or the crappy X-Men books....they are like Dawson's Creek but with superheroes (Teen level drama)

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Newguy wrote:

 

But when Thor got back he beat the living piss outta' Rulk and was about to kill him when Hulk and Rick Jones stopped him - Rulk even said so

 

Interesting. I guess Superpowers1980 just conveniently "forgot" that part,right? :rolleyes:

 

Superpowers1980 wrote:

 

Your worse argument is that "poorly written stories" crap, dude you can't base your argument on that. If anything DC has been more consistent with its character development in the past 25 years than Marvel. You don't need to ever, ever bring up Marvel being consistent when Venom punched out Juggernaut, making Juggernaut run and flee....sheer and utter nonsense. The Hulk has varied levels of strength, again he was punched out by Juggernaut, and Juggy wasn't even wearing his armor.

 

Ok, let's try this again. You cannot base debates on things that talent-less writers write. Back in "the day" (ie the 60's and 70's), Marvel was very consistent (compared to DC at least) in their portrayal of characters. Thor and Hulk always fought to a standstill. Galactus was never manhandled by anyone. Eternity was beyond anyone's ability to mess with. All that changed when the industry tanked in the 80's and all the crap writers took over. I do not acknowledge anything they did from that point on, because the writing became juvenile, pathetic, uncreative, and inaccurate (completely out of continuity). Venom cannot touch Juggernaut. Spiderman cannot touch Firelord. That's just common sense. Bad writing does not negate common sense, nor does it negate established continuity or canon.

 

It is considered Marvel canon that Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets. It is considered Marvel canon that Hulk's strength has no upper limits. The former has been part of the character's design for decades, for pretty much the entire life of the character. The latter is a "modern" addition. It started in 1983 with the first Marvel Universe handbook. There, they stated that Hulk could lift 90 tons in his normal disposition, and that there may be no upper limit. In that series, Thor is listed as being able to lift 95 tons. So Thor was stronger.

 

When the Deluxe Edition came out in 1986, it said (and I quote):

 

"The Hulk possesses superhuman strength of the Class 100 level, enabling him to lift (press) in excess of 100 tons. The Hulk only attains this strength level when he is enraged. In a totally calm state his functional strength is significantly less, perhaps in the 70 ton range."

 

They do state that his upper limit remains a mystery as he has never been pushed to that level. I'd argue that the death of Jarella and other events should have pushed him to his limit. How enraged can any being get? Is there a level of rage beyond psychotic, homicidal rage? I mean, come on!

 

In that same series, Thor is listed as having Class 100 strength. And then we have to consider his belt of strength that doubles his strength and his warrior's rage, which increases his strength tenfold.

 

We go back to common sense and logic. If Thor holds back against mortal enemies (part of Marvel canon and continuity) and if the Hulk hits Class 100 strength only when enraged, then the Hulk cannot beat Thor because back in the day (ie before all this crappy writing infected comics), Hulk never won against Thor. With Thor holding back his full strength and Hulk being enraged, Hulk could not overpower Thor. Considering that Thor can easily double or even increase his strength twenty-fold, Hulk has no chance against him. And that's just considering pure physical strength, not Thor's other powers.

 

So that's how I make my decisions. I don't take into consideration what some talent-less hack writer-of-the-day decides to write. If it's garbage, I throw it out.

 

And if you look at the nonsense idea that Hulk has no upper limit to his strength, then by default you'd have to admit that Hulk can reach Class 1 Trillion strength and just crush Superman like a bug. It makes no sense. It's all a bunch of juvenile penis envy is what it is. My dad can kick your dad's ass kinda thing. Writers these days wouldn't know a good story if it crawled into their brains and etched the story inside their skulls.

 

Let me take the time to explain a cobalt bomb to a nuclear bomb. A cobalt bomb is designed differently, it isn't made for exposive impact, its designed for a small impact but with heavy nuclear fallout. A traditional nuclear bomb has the strength to level and entire city, a cobalt CANNOT DO THAT!!!

 

Yes, it can. The Soviets were working on a huge megaton cobalt bomb. You can make a cobalt bomb as powerful as you like. The nasty cobalt fallout is just an extra, overkill step.

 

Newguy wrote:

 

But when Thor got back he beat the living piss outta' Rulk and was about to kill him when Hulk and Rick Jones stopped him - Rulk even said so

 

Interesting. I guess Superpowers1980 just conveniently "forgot" that part,right? :rolleyes:

 

Superpowers1980 wrote:

 

Your worse argument is that "poorly written stories" crap, dude you can't base your argument on that. If anything DC has been more consistent with its character development in the past 25 years than Marvel. You don't need to ever, ever bring up Marvel being consistent when Venom punched out Juggernaut, making Juggernaut run and flee....sheer and utter nonsense. The Hulk has varied levels of strength, again he was punched out by Juggernaut, and Juggy wasn't even wearing his armor.

 

Ok, let's try this again. You cannot base debates on things that talent-less writers write. Back in "the day" (ie the 60's and 70's), Marvel was very consistent (compared to DC at least) in their portrayal of characters. Thor and Hulk always fought to a standstill. Galactus was never manhandled by anyone. Eternity was beyond anyone's ability to mess with. All that changed when the industry tanked in the 80's and all the crap writers took over. I do not acknowledge anything they did from that point on, because the writing became juvenile, pathetic, uncreative, and inaccurate (completely out of continuity). Venom cannot touch Juggernaut. Spiderman cannot touch Firelord. That's just common sense. Bad writing does not negate common sense, nor does it negate established continuity or canon.

 

It is considered Marvel canon that Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets. It is considered Marvel canon that Hulk's strength has no upper limits. The former has been part of the character's design for decades, for pretty much the entire life of the character. The latter is a "modern" addition. It started in 1983 with the first Marvel Universe handbook. There, they stated that Hulk could lift 90 tons in his normal disposition, and that there may be no upper limit. In that series, Thor is listed as being able to lift 95 tons. So Thor was stronger.

 

When the Deluxe Edition came out in 1986, it said (and I quote):

 

"The Hulk possesses superhuman strength of the Class 100 level, enabling him to lift (press) in excess of 100 tons. The Hulk only attains this strength level when he is enraged. In a totally calm state his functional strength is significantly less, perhaps in the 70 ton range."

 

They do state that his upper limit remains a mystery as he has never been pushed to that level. I'd argue that the death of Jarella and other events should have pushed him to his limit. How enraged can any being get? Is there a level of rage beyond psychotic, homicidal rage? I mean, come on!

 

In that same series, Thor is listed as having Class 100 strength. And then we have to consider his belt of strength that doubles his strength and his warrior's rage, which increases his strength tenfold.

 

We go back to common sense and logic. If Thor holds back against mortal enemies (part of Marvel canon and continuity) and if the Hulk hits Class 100 strength only when enraged (part of Marvel canon), then the Hulk cannot beat Thor because back in the day (ie before all this crappy writing infected comics), Hulk never won against Thor. With Thor holding back his full strength and Hulk being enraged, Hulk could not overpower Thor. Considering that Thor can easily double or even increase his strength twenty-fold, Hulk has no chance against him. And that's just considering pure physical strength, not Thor's other powers.

 

So that's how I make my decisions. I don't take into consideration what some talent-less hack writer-of-the-day decides to write. If it's garbage, I throw it out.

 

And if you look at the nonsense idea that Hulk has no upper limit to his strength, then by default you'd have to admit that Hulk can reach Class 1 Trillion strength and just crush Superman like a bug. It makes no sense. It's all a bunch of juvenile penis envy is what it is. My dad can kick your dad's ass kinda thing. Writers these days wouldn't know a good story if it crawled into their brains and etched the story inside their skulls.

 

Let me take the time to explain a cobalt bomb to a nuclear bomb. A cobalt bomb is designed differently, it isn't made for exposive impact, its designed for a small impact but with heavy nuclear fallout. A traditional nuclear bomb has the strength to level and entire city, a cobalt CANNOT DO THAT!!!

 

Yes, it can. The Soviets were working on a huge megaton cobalt bomb. You can make a cobalt bomb as powerful as you like. The nasty cobalt fallout is just an extra, overkill step.

 

Also regarding your Dark Knight reference.....are you sure it wasn't an Elseworlds tale? If it is, which I do believe, its like taking reference from Marvel's What If titles....its a fantasy title not meant for standard reading, it offers a different take.

 

It wasn't an Elseworlds tale. It was in the first Dark Knight series I believe. It was either Miller or Mignola doing the art and it was the one where Batman (in the future) fights Superman in that stupid Bat-armor. And wins. Somewhere in that 6 part miniseries or whatever it was, Superman is shown being killed by being exposed to a nuclear blast, and then the Earth heals him. :rolleyes:

 

Now onto this stupid serpent, the serpent Thor fought was NOT LARGER than a planet,

 

Dude, pay attention. The Midgard Serpent can circle the earth. Check the second scan you posted, panels 3 & 4. It encircles the earth.

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I am just saying that part regarding JLA/Avengers and Thor knocking Superman sounds like crap, and I never ever read that.

 

If you have a problem with Superman red/bue, lets take a look at Ben Reilly, the Scarlet Spider, anyone ever read Venom's mini-series, how about the end of Civil War, hey Mesphito we have no creative end to this nonsense please help us make another reality warping story because we never think that far. Marvel has the biggest non-payoff stories ever. Remember the much demanded fight between Hulk and Drax, please that was a terrible waste of time and nonsense. Ohhh and there is more, remember when Johnny (human torch) had a mutant kid with that skrull......LOL

 

As for Wizard, they have less input than fodder from the comics. Maybe Thor could of whipped Superman around 85/89, but DC in their creative writing efforts gradually increased Superman's powers to where we are at today, over the course of 25 years they developed Superman into one of the industries best books, Marvel ruined their books...like who even reads Spiderman anymore, or the crappy X-Men books....they are like Dawson's Creek but with superheroes (Teen level drama)

 

Where Thor sent Superman for a loop - the entire first issue of JLA/Avengers! ;)

superman-hammered.jpg

 

They've amped up Superman?! HE USED TO BE ABLE TO MOVE PLANETS AND FLY FASTER THAN LIGHT! @loll@

 

If you don't like Marvel books don't read them. That what I do with DC books! hahahaha I'm a Green Lantern and I can create stuff with my mind and my will! Now that's juvenile! hahahaha

 

The Wizard Last Man Standing were done with writer input, Walter and Louise Simonson, Dan Jurgens, people that wrote both books.

 

When Batman beat the crap out of Supes I was referring to the Jim Lee drawn regular run - Superman was under the influence of Poison Ivy and Batman beat him up with a kryptonite ring?! hahaha

superman_vs_batman.jpg

"I guess Superpowers1980 just conveniently "forgot" that part,right? :rolleyes:"

 

He probably DIDN'T read it Xorr! hahaha

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Superpowers1980 wrote:

 

Superman vs Batman is always written from a creative standpoint, we all know Superman could fly into space, locate Batman and melt the entire street he was on, but that is too easy and stupid (maybe DC doesn't produce poorly written stories). If you have a problem with Batman then you should have a problem with Lex Luthor because he is human and at times has had the upper hand over supes. In two stories a future Superman had the upper hand and even made a statement about Batman and their conflicts. Stories have to be written with a level of threat, who is more of a threat than Bats?

 

Oh I get it. Being realistic doesn't count, what matters is twisting the facts to tell a story, is that it? It's ok to be absurd as long as it makes for what you refer to as "creativity"? Batman cannot beat Superman. Full stop. End of story. Batman is a non-superpowered normal human. Superman is one of DC's most highly superpowered individuals. No contest. Please tell me you're not part of that crowd of bizarro people who believe that Batman can beat anyone as long as he's given enough time to figure out how. That's just insane. I argued with someone once who insisted that Batman could, given enough time, beat Galactus. I just called him a moron and dropped it because there was no point in even trying to communicate with such delusional beliefs.

 

I am just saying that part regarding JLA/Avengers and Thor knocking Superman sounds like crap, and I never ever read that.

 

So are you saying you only read the pages where Superman won, but ignored the pages where Thor punched Superman clear across the city? Selective arguments, to be sure!

 

If you have a problem with Superman red/bue, lets take a look at Ben Reilly, the Scarlet Spider, anyone ever read Venom's mini-series, how about the end of Civil War, hey Mesphito we have no creative end to this nonsense please help us make another reality warping story because we never think that far. Marvel has the biggest non-payoff stories ever. Remember the much demanded fight between Hulk and Drax, please that was a terrible waste of time and nonsense. Ohhh and there is more, remember when Johnny (human torch) had a mutant kid with that skrull......LOL

 

As I have repeatedly pointed out, you cannot include modern comics in any debate because they are all crappy, poorly written, inaccurate garbage. There is no respect for continuity, canon, or established facts. It's the wild west, and whichever writer-of-the-month is popular gets to tinker with fundamental rules of continuity. You can't consider that, because it's just a sloppy mess. Which is why I never consider anything written after the mid-80's to have any significance or authority when it comes to comics. I agree with you. That stuff is all crap. The Civil War, Marvel Zombies, Mutant Massacre, 52 and all that. It's all juvenile garbage.

 

Which is why I only consider what was written back when writers actually had writing skills, when editors forced continuity to remain honored, where characters were respected as established. At least most of the time. In my eyes, comics from the 60's and 70's are totally unrelated to comics from the 90's and beyond. They have similarly named characters, but they're not the same characters at all.

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