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Who is stronger Superman or Captain Marvel


Superpowers1980

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SuperPowers1980 wrote:

 

Your logic is flawed. Superman absorbs yellow sunlight, it powers he and sort of activates his ability to use it. He can still use his powers without contact to yellow sunlight, its red sunlight that turns off his ability to use it, it doesn't depower him. Superman retains all his power but he can't use them under redsunlight. either way with or without he is retains his power as long as he isn't under red sunlight.

 

I don't know if that's how they're doing it now, but traditionally, Superman derives his powers from the yellow sun. Under a red sun he loses all his power and becomes a normal human. That's how it was for decades while I was reading DC. So again, Superman is (was?) dependent on being within the range of a yellow sun for his powers. Since red dwarf stars account for something like 70% of all stars in the universe (if I have my astronomy facts still correct), that means that there are very few yellow stars around. There are red dwarf stars, yellow stars, blue giants, white dwarfs, red giants, blue hyper-giants, etc. So only in a few areas of the universe does Superman have his power. He can't just fly across the universe because most of the time he'd be passing through red sun radiation and imploding like a regular human.

 

Also again you seem to forget Superman fights magical beings all the time and he has won. You all have such flawed understanding of his powers. Superman is particularly vulnerable to magic, but that does not mean that magic will trump him all the time, or that he has no defense.

 

On the contrary, Superman has no defense against magic. It affects him like any other being. This has been long-established in comics over the decades.

 

Superman physically beat the snot out of those magical beings and he can beat the snot out of Thor.

 

Not if you look at their powers logically.

 

As for Captain Marvel, in JLU Superman fought and got his butt handed to him.

 

Considering the crappy, juvenile level of writing in comics these days, I don't acknowledge any of it, because "canon" changed with the wind with these writers.

 

I don't read modern comics because to me they're just insipid crap written by hacks. They sit around and say "Wow, would't it be cool if..." and then go do something that I consider ##$%$#ed and idiotic and completely out of character or outside established continuity. So modern comics hold no validity for me whatsoever.

 

But let's address some other points...

 

Superpowers1980 wrote:

 

1. For years Marvel fans have claimed that DC characters are too powerful, yet in EVERY FREAKING DISCUSSION, they want to talk about how crappy Superman is because of his power level, yet they claim Thor and Hulk are sooooooo much stronger. All of you guys really need to get over that sappy envious bandwagon, Marvel conceeded multiple times that Hulk and Thor are not as strong as Superman. Neither Hulk or Thor has ever displayed Superman level strength in their comics, and your jealousy won't change truth.

 

It's not jealousy in my case. I've been a huge DC fan since before I could even read comics! @bats@

 

Just because one character is stronger does not make that hypocrisy. First of all, Superman is overpowered. Originally he could only leap tall buildings, he couldn't fly. He had super strength, but could only lift cars or stop freight trains. He couldn't lift mountains or push planets. He had no heat vision, cold breath, x-ray vision, super speed (at least not beyond the speed of a bullet), super-intelligence, 10th degree black belt in Kryptonian karate :rolleyes:, or any of that. Slowly, they had to make him better than every other superhero. Flash is the fastest man on Earth...well, except for Superman. Batman is the greatest detective on Earth...well, except for Superman. Luthor is the greatest scientist on Earth...well, except for Superman. Green Lantern has the strongest will power on Earth...well, except for Superman. Karate Kid is the greatest combatant on Earth...well, except for Superman. By becoming better than anyone at anything, he became a joke, a parody, and overblown clown.

 

Yes, Thor has displayed strength on Superman's level when he lifted and crumpled a door made of several-foot thick Mondurian steel, which Hildegarde said would resist the weaponry of a fleet of star destroyers. He did so when he lifted the Midgard Serpent. He did so when he drove back Galactus using the power of his hammer. Galactus is a cosmic being who would wipe out both Superman and Doomsday with a mere sneeze.

 

The proble in comparing the two companies is that DC has always been very sloppy and very infantile with how they write comics. DC comics were aimed at 3rd graders, Marvel was aimed at college students. That's sorta how it played. DC was always poorly executed in comparison. I still love my DC stuff, I just acknowledge reality. So in comparing the two, we need to find a formula to put them on the same field. That means ignoring the outrageous stuff written by crappy or lazy writers and looking at the core of the characters.

 

2. Secondly, I hate how people hate on Superman. Its all VERY IRONIC. First they claim Superman is wayyy too powerful, yet in the same breath, these hypocrites will claim that Thor and Hulk are stronger????

 

It's not hypocrisy, it's being realistic. Yes, Thor is far more powerful than Superman. But they give Thor appropriate villains like Ulik, Mangog, Loki, Absorbing Man. Not silly stuff like Toyman or Terra Man or the Abominable Snowman. Thor is that powerful because he is a god. But he's not as fast as Quicksilver, he's not as powerful as Galctus, he's not as smart as Iron Man, he's not as dextrous as Capt. America, etc. Marvel knows how to balance their characters! And while theoretically Hulk might be able to reach Superman level strength, I don't see Hulk winning a fight against Superman because he's not smart enough, has no powers beyond super strength, cannot fly, etc. And I like Hulk a whole lot more than Superman!

 

My complaint about Superman is they insist on making him better than everyone at everything, no matter what that thing is. It's overpowering and it's ridiculous. Thor cannot be the Avengers by himself (ie a one man team). Iron Man is smarter and has better use of technology. Cap is a better strategist (though I could say Thor would be better having thousands of year fighting experience, but then that's not battle tactics, he just brawls for the most part). He does not have the Black Panter's tracking or awareness ability. He can't walk through walls like the Vision can. And so on.

 

Superman on the other hand is a one man Justice League. He's faster than Flash, so why have Flash on the team? He's smarter than Batman, so why have Batman on the team? He's got stronger will power than GL, so why have GL on the team? He can outfight Black Canary with his Kryptonian karate, so why have Black Canary on the team? He can fly and form tornadoes from his speed, so why have Red Tornado on the team? See what I mean?

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Had to split my reply, too many quotes or something. Back to Superpowers1980, who wrote:

 

This is what bothers me, you know what-someone has to be the best.

 

There's always someone better. Thor is far more powerful than Superman, but Odin is far more powerful than Thor. Galactus is far more powerful than Odin, but the Living Tribunal is far more powerful than Galctus. And supposedly, the Living Tribunal works for an omipotent, almighty God.

 

In life their always is a someone who it top dog and Superman for the most part is it, and why hate on it just because he isn't your favorite or part of your favorite comic company.

 

But see, that's where you're so wrong. No one, least of all me, is "hating on Superman" because he "isn't part of my favorite comic company". I collected them all as a kid...DC, Marvel, Atlas, Dell, Charlton, Red Circle, Fawcett, etc. I still do. And some of my all time favorite comics are DC. New Gods by Kirby is one of my all time favorite comics, regardless of company. Orion, Dr. Fate, Firestorm, Hawkman, Spectre...these are some of my all time favorite comic characters. Kobra is perhaps my #1 favorite villain of all time, from any comic company! Darkseid would rate right up there next to him. So it's not a "Marvel fan boy" thing. I hate Superman because I'm sick of how overpowered they made him and how they have to always protect him so adamantly. Is he any less "super" just because Flash is faster or Batman is smarter? No.

 

In Marvel people like Thor and Hulk and the strongest but you never, EVER, hear DC fans complaining that they are too powerful.

LOL! Well, duh! That's because they aren't overpowered! @pow@ ;)

 

Marvel has amped up their characters to the max. Wolverine can go whip on everyone and Marvel fans love it and accept it. Hulk can now hold his breath long enough to travel through one dimension to another and Marvel fans can accept it. Spiderman can fight the Juggernaut and survive and Marvel fans will accept it.

 

Well I certainly can't be lumped in with those sort of silly fan boys, that's for sure! When Spiderman beat up Firelord, I fumed in aggravation and wanted to strangle the writer. No way can Spiderman even touch Firelord. He's a herald of Galctus who wields cosmic power! Wolverine has become so over done it makes me hate the character. I know there are Marvel fans who believe Wolverine can cut out Superman's hard and I think they're insane to believe so. I can see Spiderman surviving a fight with Juggernaut by avoiding him, sure. But no way can Spiderman beat him up! In fact, the reason I stopped reading Marvel (and comics in general) came in the mid-late 80s with that absolutely idiotic stunt called Secret Wars. Jim Shooter used to be one of my all time favorite writers up until then, but after that I concluded that the man had lost his freaking mind and descended into dementia. That garbage ushered in the Age of the Uber-Gods. Every time they wanted to show that a new threat was "powerful", they'd create a new uber-god to be that threat. The Beyonder made no sense. He was his own universe, just like how Eternity is the entire universe. Beyonder cannot be more powerful than Eternity. But the Beyonder manhandled Galactus, Eternity, etc. And then that insipid Infinity Gauntlet crap, where Galactus, Eternity, and Death became mere play pieces for whichever character gained the gauntlet that month to sell the current entire-freaking-comic-line-tie-ins for that year. It was stupid, it was ridiculous, it was pathetic. Previously near-omnipotent and mysterious beings like Eternity and Galactus were reduced to infantile child-like status, whining and crying and getting their asses whipped. I have not supported Marvel ever since. I believe they got "DC-itis".

 

Get over it, no matter how much you love Thor, Hulk, they aren't Superman level power, hell neither is Silver Surfer. Superman can handle cosmic power, he has handled worse!

 

You're right. Thor isn't Superman level. He is far beyond that. Hulk is probably close in strength, but not in overall power. Silver Surfer is a cosmic being and can easily defeat Superman. Looking at DC for precedent means that Superman can probably beat God, because they always make Superman the most powerful or the best at anything. Doesn't mean anything.

 

3. how did we even get sidetracked, stop hijacking topics!!!

 

Just a natural flow of conversation, no reason to get upset.

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Supergirl and Mary Marvel?

Don't know who's stronger, but Mary Marvel would beat Supergirl. However, Powergirl would beat Mary Marvel.

 

I've never cared much for Thor, Captain Marvel or Superman, but I've got to say that since Supes is susceptible to magic, both Thor and CM would beat him in the end. I still don't know who is the physically strongest, though.

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Had to split my reply, too many quotes or something. Back to Superpowers1980, who wrote:

 

This is what bothers me, you know what-someone has to be the best.

 

There's always someone better. Thor is far more powerful than Superman, but Odin is far more powerful than Thor. Galactus is far more powerful than Odin, but the Living Tribunal is far more powerful than Galctus. And supposedly, the Living Tribunal works for an omipotent, almighty God.

 

In life their always is a someone who it top dog and Superman for the most part is it, and why hate on it just because he isn't your favorite or part of your favorite comic company.

 

But see, that's where you're so wrong. No one, least of all me, is "hating on Superman" because he "isn't part of my favorite comic company". I collected them all as a kid...DC, Marvel, Atlas, Dell, Charlton, Red Circle, Fawcett, etc. I still do. And some of my all time favorite comics are DC. New Gods by Kirby is one of my all time favorite comics, regardless of company. Orion, Dr. Fate, Firestorm, Hawkman, Spectre...these are some of my all time favorite comic characters. Kobra is perhaps my #1 favorite villain of all time, from any comic company! Darkseid would rate right up there next to him. So it's not a "Marvel fan boy" thing. I hate Superman because I'm sick of how overpowered they made him and how they have to always protect him so adamantly. Is he any less "super" just because Flash is faster or Batman is smarter? No.

 

In Marvel people like Thor and Hulk and the strongest but you never, EVER, hear DC fans complaining that they are too powerful.

LOL! Well, duh! That's because they aren't overpowered! twak.gifwink.gif

 

Marvel has amped up their characters to the max. Wolverine can go whip on everyone and Marvel fans love it and accept it. Hulk can now hold his breath long enough to travel through one dimension to another and Marvel fans can accept it. Spiderman can fight the Juggernaut and survive and Marvel fans will accept it.

 

Well I certainly can't be lumped in with those sort of silly fan boys, that's for sure! When Spiderman beat up Firelord, I fumed in aggravation and wanted to strangle the writer. No way can Spiderman even touch Firelord. He's a herald of Galctus who wields cosmic power! Wolverine has become so over done it makes me hate the character. I know there are Marvel fans who believe Wolverine can cut out Superman's hard and I think they're insane to believe so. I can see Spiderman surviving a fight with Juggernaut by avoiding him, sure. But no way can Spiderman beat him up! In fact, the reason I stopped reading Marvel (and comics in general) came in the mid-late 80s with that absolutely idiotic stunt called Secret Wars. Jim Shooter used to be one of my all time favorite writers up until then, but after that I concluded that the man had lost his freaking mind and descended into dementia. That garbage ushered in the Age of the Uber-Gods. Every time they wanted to show that a new threat was "powerful", they'd create a new uber-god to be that threat. The Beyonder made no sense. He was his own universe, just like how Eternity is the entire universe. Beyonder cannot be more powerful than Eternity. But the Beyonder manhandled Galactus, Eternity, etc. And then that insipid Infinity Gauntlet crap, where Galactus, Eternity, and Death became mere play pieces for whichever character gained the gauntlet that month to sell the current entire-freaking-comic-line-tie-ins for that year. It was stupid, it was ridiculous, it was pathetic. Previously near-omnipotent and mysterious beings like Eternity and Galactus were reduced to infantile child-like status, whining and crying and getting their asses whipped. I have not supported Marvel ever since. I believe they got "DC-itis".

 

Get over it, no matter how much you love Thor, Hulk, they aren't Superman level power, hell neither is Silver Surfer. Superman can handle cosmic power, he has handled worse!

 

You're right. Thor isn't Superman level. He is far beyond that. Hulk is probably close in strength, but not in overall power. Silver Surfer is a cosmic being and can easily defeat Superman. Looking at DC for precedent means that Superman can probably beat God, because they always make Superman the most powerful or the best at anything. Doesn't mean anything.

 

3. how did we even get sidetracked, stop hijacking topics!!!

 

Just a natural flow of conversation, no reason to get upset.

 

I really don't have to say much the pictures will do the talking:

SupermanandThorbrawlin3.jpg

 

hulk6b.jpg

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As I said before, the poorly done stories of bad writers does not concern my opinion on the matter. You can post the entire comic for all I care, it will not sway my argument. DC insists that Superman win the fight, and since Marvel does not over-protect its characters like DC does, the outcome is pre-determined and wrong. The outcome is not in keeping with either logic or common sense.

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And since we're all over the board with comparisons, let's look at Thor vs Hulk. Until recent modern times, Marvel has always kept these powerhouses evenly matched, with no one clear winner. However, we can show that Thor is stronger by looking at the powers of the characters. Every time Thor has fought the Hulk, the Hulk has gotten angrier and angrier, and thus stronger and stronger. Theoretically, the Hulk should be evenly matched with Thor, at the very least. However, is is established canon that Thor holds back his full might from mere mortal foes, and only unleashes it against fellow gods or beings such as Galactus or Mangog. Thor also pities Hulk and therefore we see another reason for him to refrain from using his full strength. Also, the fact is that no matter how angry the Hulk has gotten, he has never been able to overpower Thor, even when Thor is holding back. At best it's always a standstill (again, I don't count the crap and drivel of the 90's and beyond).

 

So we have a Thor who holds back his full strength going toe-to-toe and giving no ground to a Hulk who gains strength by the second the angrier he gets. The logic of this is indisputable. If Thor holds back (and even for sake of argument assuming he isn't), and if Hulk keeps getting stronger and stronger the more enraged he gets, then how can Hulk be as strong as Thor when all that anger cannot summon enough strength to defeat Thor, who is holding back his full strength? And we also then have to consider Thor's warrior's rage. If that hits him, his strength increases tenfold. A Hulk who cannot defeat a Thor who holds back from using his full normal strength cannot hope to survive against a Thor who isn't holding back and is indeed using ten times his full strength.

 

This is why I like to use common sense and logic coupled with evidence from back when comics were actually intelligently written, to back an argument. Referring to what the idiotic "writer of the month" has done with any given character means nothing in these arguments. After all, they did write such nonsense as Spiderman defeating Firelord, and that's just absurd beyond words to anyone with even a single intact, functioning brain cell.

 

Yes, the truth is it depends on who the writer wants to win, or which company gets to say who wins, but in neither case does that make the decision right, proper, logical, or believable.

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Read the comics--go back to as far back as the 60's and 70's @smilepunch@

Superman has gone from being able to just leap tall buildings and hold back locomotives, to moving planets in their orbits.

 

That why I said "Pre-Crisis" and "modern Superman!" :D Covering my @$!!! hahaha

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Yes, the truth is it depends on who the writer wants to win, or which company gets to say who wins, but in neither case does that make the decision right, proper, logical, or believable.

 

 

:huh: That makes no sense.

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Arrow, it makes perfect sense. One one hand we have the character as intended to be, we have historical precedence from when writers were more conscientious, we have logic based on the character(s) powers, we have common sense. That determines the true outcome. Or we can look at the crappy writer-of-the-month's latest stunt, which is in contradiction to all the former aspects. One is a proper outcome, the other just nonsensical. Just because some poor writer decides one day that it'd be "cool" to have Spiderman beating Firelord does not make it reasonable, intelligent, logical, or even sane if it flies in the face of logic, common sense, and precedence coupled with an analysis of the characters' powers.

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I really don't have to say much the pictures will do the talking:

 

We've all said the Marvel/DC crossover was crap... Well, if you want crappily made stories, here you go:

I shouldn't say it was made bad as it was never finished for the event.

 

I think Thor is the better b/c of the reason Xorr said, gone toe-to-toe with a Celestial, driven back Galactus, handed Thanos his purple, Barney ass, and could basically take Hulk anytime he wants... Also, b/c according to his comic mythology he is not a normal immortal - he is actually the son of Gaia so he can tap into even more power. This is stuff a Pre-Crisis Superman could fight but modern Superman could not.

 

Unless the writers and companies want him to win! hahaha Which was the case with the crossovers you posted. (Going in circles here...)

 

How about this, you like Superman the best, so for you he is the best - we like Thor the best, so for us he is the best? hahahaha

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There's always someone better. Thor is far more powerful than Superman, but Odin is far more powerful than Thor. Galactus is far more powerful than Odin, but the Living Tribunal is far more powerful than Galctus. And supposedly, the Living Tribunal works for an omipotent, almighty God.

 

 

No fracking way

 

Thor isn't even on the Man of Steels level

 

Hell until I see Thor defeat Darksied its no contest.Hell I don't even think that mighty hammer of his could even stop the Dark Knight

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No fracking way

 

Thor isn't even on the Man of Steels level

 

Hell until I see Thor defeat Darksied its no contest.Hell I don't even think that mighty hammer of his could even stop the Dark Knight

 

Okay, that's just flaming!

 

We all know Superman is John Wayne! But Thor is CHUCK FRIGGIN' NORRIS!!! hahaha The Duke's the bigger star but we all know Chuck Norris is going to win the fight! hahahaha

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I really don't have to say much the pictures will do the talking:

 

We've all said the Marvel/DC crossover was crap... Well, if you want crappily made stories, here you go:

I shouldn't say it was made bad as it was never finished for the event.

 

I think Thor is the better b/c of the reason Xorr said, gone toe-to-toe with a Celestial, driven back Galactus, handed Thanos his purple, Barney ass, and could basically take Hulk anytime he wants... Also, b/c according to his comic mythology he is not a normal immortal - he is actually the son of Gaia so he can tap into even more power. This is stuff a Pre-Crisis Superman could fight but modern Superman could not.

 

Unless the writers and companies want him to win! hahaha Which was the case with the crossovers you posted. (Going in circles here...)

 

How about this, you like Superman the best, so for you he is the best - we like Thor the best, so for us he is the best? hahahaha

 

 

Stupid video was possibly made by a Marvel fan

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No fracking way

 

Thor isn't even on the Man of Steels level

 

Hell until I see Thor defeat Darksied its no contest.Hell I don't even think that mighty hammer of his could even stop the Dark Knight

 

Okay, that's just flaming!

 

We all know Superman is John Wayne! But Thor is CHUCK FRIGGIN' NORRIS!!! hahaha The Duke's the bigger star but we all know Chuck Norris is going to win the fight! hahahaha

 

Number 1 I was responding to Xorr

 

Number 2 I wasn't flaming so stop accusation

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Arrow, it makes perfect sense. One one hand we have the character as intended to be, we have historical precedence from when writers were more conscientious, we have logic based on the character(s) powers, we have common sense. That determines the true outcome. Or we can look at the crappy writer-of-the-month's latest stunt, which is in contradiction to all the former aspects. One is a proper outcome, the other just nonsensical. Just because some poor writer decides one day that it'd be "cool" to have Spiderman beating Firelord does not make it reasonable, intelligent, logical, or even sane if it flies in the face of logic, common sense, and precedence coupled with an analysis of the characters' powers.

 

No, it doesn't make any sense, because you, a consumer, are dictating the outcome of a creator's work, not the creator. But the creator is the one calling the shots, not you.

Establishing canon is just that.....whatever a creator says applies, is what goes. Logic, common sense and precedents have no bearings when qualifying a fictional work, because the depiction of the character isn't a dialogue, its a monologue. The creator of said work TELLS YOU that this is how it is, and that is what it is.

If they change it, or make it confusing.........well, that is what it is.

 

Sucky story or not, they can do that........because they are the creator of the piece and their voice holds sway........until another creator comes along and says otherwise. You are saying the creators of those stories got it wrong, and yet its their creations ( or they were employed to handle those creations)to say as they pretty much please.

 

That is why such debates end up being pointless nonsense, because its not about "who is stronger, etc"....but about this false perception of "ownership". Its not about the characters, its about the people debating the unquantifiable points trying to determine who is right and wrong.

Well, there are no right or wrongs here, only arbitrary claims that......well, lack consistent legs to stand on.

 

They say that Superman can do this, or Hulk can do that........but then someone comes along and announces that it only applies if this or that happens--and then you have someone applying arbitrary conditions etc that......well, again.....its endless.

 

In the end, yes they can do it--YES they are the strongest one etc.

 

And no, they are not. It works both ways. ;)

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Stupid video was possibly made by a Marvel fan

 

THOR IS CHUCK NORRIS!!! HE WINS!!! hahaha

 

(I wasn't accusing you or flaming the thread - when I say "flaming," it's my personal syntax, my way of saying you are just stating your personal opinion without using anything to back it up. Again, no offense should be taken. ;)

 

You may have been talking to Xorr but I was defending my point of view as it is the same as Xorr's.)

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And again, everyone, this is getting circular...

 

No new points are being made, it's just become ones' favorite vs another favorite, why I made the Picard is better than Kirk comment! hahaha

 

Hear hear to Arrow!

"That is why such debates end up being pointless nonsense, because its not about 'who is stronger, etc...' but about this false perception of 'ownership.' Its not about the characters, its about the people debating the unquantifiable points trying to determine who is right and wrong."

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Newguy, that video was hysterical! Horrible but hysterical! Thor sounded like an Asian villain from a Hong Kong kung-fu flick! LMAO!!! I agree with Wheeljack35, it was probably made by a Marvel fan (or at least a Thor fan), but it was so goofy it had me ROTFLMAO!

 

How about this, you like Superman the best, so for you he is the best - we like Thor the best, so for us he is the best? hahahaha

 

Well, I'd agree about saying who's the "best", because "best" is a personal call. It's like saying "Who's cooler?". But we can look at power levels objectively and come to a conclusion as to who is actually more powerful.

 

Wheeljack35 wrote:

 

Hell until I see Thor defeat Darksied its no contest.Hell I don't even think that mighty hammer of his could even stop the Dark Knight

 

Well, I honestly cannot count the recent comics where Superman can defeat Darkseid or whatever. Again, bad writing is bad writing. I doubt that Jack Kirby would ever have had Superman beating Darkseid. Just because something has become warped doesn't make it accurate, that's how I look at it. But you are kidding about Dark Knight, right? :o I mean, Holey Moley! Thor's hammer punched a hole in a Celestial and drove back Galactus! Batman would become a blue and black smudge on the working end of Mjolnir and Thor's only worry would be whether to wipe off the hammer on his pants or his cape. :P

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Arrow wrote:

 

No, it doesn't make any sense, because you, a consumer, are dictating the outcome of a creator's work, not the creator. But the creator is the one calling the shots, not you. Establishing canon is just that.....whatever a creator says applies, is what goes. Logic, common sense and precedents have no bearings when qualifying a fictional work, because the depiction of the character isn't a dialogue, its a monologue. The creator of said work TELLS YOU that this is how it is, and that is what it is. If they change it, or make it confusing.........well, that is what it is.

 

No, canon is not what any given author proposes. If Thor could bend steel in his hands for 35 years of writing, then some crappy writer comes along and says he can't, that doesn't make that author's drivel canon. It's just bad writing and not in keeping with the character. It does indeed make sense. It's simple analysis of stated powers, continuity, and common sense and logic. We can't argue who is the coolest superhero or the most fun or whatever because that's subjective. But as for who is stronger, Character A or Character B, we have a huge database of information on each and can use logic, common sense, facts, and precedence to make a case.

 

Writers who make stupid changes to characters are not changing the character, they are abusing it.

 

Sucky story or not, they can do that........because they are the creator of the piece and their voice holds sway........until another creator comes along and says otherwise. You are saying the creators of those stories got it wrong, and yet its their creations ( or they were employed to handle those creations)to say as they pretty much please.

 

No, only the original writer and/or artist is the creator. Everyone after that is simply building on or changing what went before. You can't call two different people the creator. Either Kirby and Lee invented Thor or they didn't. Gerry Conway is an awesome Thor writer (my second fave), but he's not Thor's creator. But at least he respected the character, which is far more than I can say for modern writers.

 

That is why such debates end up being pointless nonsense, because its not about "who is stronger, etc"....but about this false perception of "ownership". Its not about the characters, its about the people debating the unquantifiable points trying to determine who is right and wrong.

Well, there are no right or wrongs here, only arbitrary claims that......well, lack consistent legs to stand on.

 

With all due respect, I don't think you understand the finer points of debate. There are indeed quantifiable points to determine who is right and who is wrong. It's not about ownership at all. It's about which character, given the character's powers, and given the historical precedence of the character and applying logic and common sense, is stronger/faster/whatever. It is absolutely debatable, with a winner and a loser.

 

They say that Superman can do this, or Hulk can do that........but then someone comes along and announces that it only applies if this or that happens--and then you have someone applying arbitrary conditions etc that......well, again.....its endless.

 

And if we treat that like a court case, it boils down to intent (what was the character intended to be able to do?), precedence (what has the character traditionally been able to do?) and logic (what can we logically infer from the former two?). Common sense plays a role too. Otherwise, everything is meaningless. Superman is DC's most powerful character only as long as the current writer says so? That makes an unreadable mess of the DC universe and strains both suspension of disbelief and common sense.

 

Back to Newguy, who wrote:

 

And again, everyone, this is getting circular...

 

I don't think it's really getting circular. I think it's just that some people prefer to ignore the actual debate and write it off (erroneously) as "whatever the current writer says". But if we stick to facts, logic, precedence, and common sense, we certainly can debate it. It's really very interesting when that happens. Lots of good arguments from both sides when that happens, and lots of fun too. @smilepunch@

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Newguy, that video was hysterical! Horrible but hysterical! Thor sounded like an Asian villain from a Hong Kong kung-fu flick! LMAO!!! I agree with Wheeljack35, it was probably made by a Marvel fan (or at least a Thor fan), but it was so goofy it had me ROTFLMAO!

 

That's how I felt about that Marvel/DC crossover Xorr! That story made absolutely no sense - just an excuse for splash pages full of both companies characters! hahaha

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Newguy wrote:

 

That's how I felt about that Marvel/DC crossover Xorr! That story made absolutely no sense - just an excuse for splash pages full of both companies characters! hahaha

 

Amen! Just a big crowded fan-boy wet dream is all it was. I tire of those over-crowded spectacles. It used to be an event when the JLA nad JSA teamed up, and it was a huge event when the Defenders and Avengers crossed paths in 1973 (courtesy of Loki and Dormammu). But as usual, the companies milked the cow until all that was left to squeeze out of the teat was puss. :angry:

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i know im late,(hope im not pregnant...lol) but are there people saying that thor can beat superman? thor powers may be based on magic, but that doesnt mean he can beat supes. supes can be hurt by magic, but it doesnt mean he becomes a P*ssy because of it! no one said that once magic is introduced supes has no chance. you guys need to stop fixating on one point, and then running with it. i like thor, but thor has trouble with the hulk...and supes...well...he doesnt. all of you guys bragging about thor should be more worried about some of the other hacks that have been kickin the thunder god's a** up and down comic books.

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i know im late,(hope im not pregnant...lol) but are there people saying that thor can beat superman? thor powers may be based on magic, but that doesnt mean he can beat supes. supes can be hurt by magic, but it doesnt mean he becomes a P*ssy because of it! no one said that once magic is introduced supes has no chance. you guys need to stop fixating on one point, and then running with it. i like thor, but thor has trouble with the hulk...and supes...well...he doesnt. all of you guys bragging about thor should be more worried about some of the other hacks that have been kickin the thunder god's a** up and down comic books.

 

Please read previous comments. :)

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