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Your "Ultimate" reboot of Marvel?


revsears
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I don't buy marvel anymore, but i've considered the "ultimate" franchises. I initially hated reboots but now I'm not so sure, I think the real verse is indeed broken. But i'm not of fan of things i've learned about the ultimate universe: I don't know how to do spoiler tags anyone know how? If you let me know I'll put in what i can't stand!

 

 

But I would love to see Marvel try again, maybe with less "edgey" for the sake of it, and more back to what started the characters, and them move on with them and age etc. And when people die, they stay DEAD.

 

Marvel Heroes/Avengers:

I've always wanted to see Avengers as a millitary unit. Black widow for espionage, Hawkeye as a gun using sniper, Fury as their General man in Charge and recruiting super heroes. Cap as WWII victem of crazy alien/nazi experimental freezing waking back up with a more movie version of Iron man (not what ultimates did to him), Government op War-Machine, a crazy mutant who claims to be Thor, Golaith (always loved that name for him) and wasp (both with more muted under control powers) Honestly the "ultimate avengers"straight to toon DVD was almost what I want as a starting point. Give us Iron man Prequals and keep the team working as a unit in Current day. Give em agents to work under them (like hawkeye and widow above, but also newer or altered faces)

 

I think the big thing for me is I think cap should ditch the shield, at least in battle. It may be in his office or used against certian foes whose weapons it's extra effect with, but it's just out of place looking to me.

 

X-men: I'd love the first x-men movie's setup. but i think to be relevant the story I've always wanted to see is what happens when Proffesor Xavier, and Magento are dead, and Stay dead. Jean Grey (always Phoneix, never marvel girl) died and stayed dead? Beast Left to work with the Avengers. I think it would more properly reflect the times, MLK Jr. is gone, Malcome X is gone but we still are trying to deal with living together our differences have just changed.

 

But together I think we need see the original team, Mutants being kept a secret from the public etc.

 

Spidy: I like spidy is a bright smart hero who everyone hates for no good reason. One of the first super heroes, really, and regardless of how he does, always gets crapped on. No mary Jane, not in till Stacy dies etc. When Norman dies, he DIES. No Clones. But I want to read these things knowing they are going to an adult spidy, a married struggling wit his day job spidy. Even a future broken leg spidy with a spidy daughter. A lot of spidy fans have grown up, why can't he?

 

Knights/horror stuff:

A seperate universe w/ vampires Devils etc. Blade, Ghost rider the nightstalkers etc. Can romp in a more grim and gritty verse.

 

 

I know it sounds like of these things are being done (Wolverine and the x-men come to mind, but why wouldn't cyc or Storm lead? maybe even nightcrawler, not wolverine!)

 

what about you guys, ever daydreamed about it?

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I've hated the Ultimate titles from the get-go--with only The Ultimates as the exception. The reason is because the line represents brand confusion to me. These are just the mainstream Marvel heroes sexed up, over-sexed, drugged out, and messed up in ways that just seem horribly contrived. There was a stripe of cynicism and subtle mean-spiritedness to them that gave me pause. Initially, I got the idea that they were just going to take the names of the characters and just re-think everything from the ground up.

But like Jim Shooter's New Universe with its "plumbing in the walls" BS, the actual Ultimate comics came off an attempt at more "mature" mainstream Marvel-but really didn't come off any better, or all that different.

 

And therein came the brand confusion. They used (use) the Ultimate stuff for the animated cartoons.......and I'm left wondering.....why?

The mainstream characters are SO much more interesting as is, and the Ultimate stuff is so toned down. I'm left wondering....why bother, right? I mean, for the longest time, I thought that the story where the Ultimate Hulk rips apart Wolverine was set in the mainstream universe. Yea, brand confusion.

 

I think they should have just taken the names and gone off merrily full bore into left-field. Designed characters that bore next to no resemblance to their mainstream counterparts, and with completely different stories to boot.

Pick someone like Spiderman and make, for example, Magneto his arch villain....and make a sound reason for it, and then go from their. Re-think EVERYTHING, carte-blanche.....a total re-imagining.

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For the most part I love the Ultimate Universe. I find the regular 616 universe to be too convoluted with backstory at this point and do not envy anyone jumping into oh, let's say the Avengers. It takes some serious homework to figure out what the Hell is going on.

 

- I like the writing (mostly)

- I like the artist they use (again mostly)

- I like the stories (yet again, mostly)

 

It's not the same as the regular universe, but it's not too alien either. Ultimate Spider-man is the only version of Spider-man I regularly collect.

 

I've heard that the Ultimate universe initially had a 'once you're dead you stay dead' rule but unfortunately that went out the window after a few years. To date, they've only done it once that I can think of, maybe twice. So far that is.......

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  • 2 months later...

For the most part I love the Ultimate Universe. I find the regular 616 universe to be too convoluted with backstory at this point and do not envy anyone jumping into oh, let's say the Avengers. It takes some serious homework to figure out what the Hell is going on.

 

- I like the writing (mostly)

- I like the artist they use (again mostly)

- I like the stories (yet again, mostly)

 

It's not the same as the regular universe, but it's not too alien either. Ultimate Spider-man is the only version of Spider-man I regularly collect.

 

I've heard that the Ultimate universe initially had a 'once you're dead you stay dead' rule but unfortunately that went out the window after a few years. To date, they've only done it once that I can think of, maybe twice. So far that is.......

 

out of curiosity, whom passed away and returned?

 

Some ultimate stuff turns me off, like Quicksilver and Scarlet witch really being in love, and didn't they make gwen stacy carnage? or some strange thing like that.

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Eh... I wouldn't change a thing I simply don't read it if I don't enjoy it :)

 

RIght now I'm highly enjoying

 

Guardians of the galaxy

nova

war of kings story arc

Pretty much anything cosmic type like the annihilation arcs :)

Secret warriors

Avengers the initiative

Might avengers is great fun

siege ( main title, & also embedded )

 

&Hmm... Yeah I could name a few more but should stop there...

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For the most part I love the Ultimate Universe. I find the regular 616 universe to be too convoluted with backstory at this point and do not envy anyone jumping into oh, let's say the Avengers. It takes some serious homework to figure out what the Hell is going on.

 

- I like the writing (mostly)

- I like the artist they use (again mostly)

- I like the stories (yet again, mostly)

 

It's not the same as the regular universe, but it's not too alien either. Ultimate Spider-man is the only version of Spider-man I regularly collect.

 

I've heard that the Ultimate universe initially had a 'once you're dead you stay dead' rule but unfortunately that went out the window after a few years. To date, they've only done it once that I can think of, maybe twice. So far that is.......

 

out of curiosity, whom passed away and returned?

 

Some ultimate stuff turns me off, like Quicksilver and Scarlet witch really being in love, and didn't they make gwen stacy carnage? or some strange thing like that.

 

 

Beast technically, I think anyway, don't know of anyone else.

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Eh... I wouldn't change a thing I simply don't read it if I don't enjoy it :)

 

RIght now I'm highly enjoying

 

Guardians of the galaxy

nova

war of kings story arc

Pretty much anything cosmic type like the annihilation arcs :)

Secret warriors

Avengers the initiative

Might avengers is great fun

siege ( main title, & also embedded )

 

&Hmm... Yeah I could name a few more but should stop there...

 

With the exception of Secret Warriors, ALL of those books are getting cancelled/coming to an end.

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There seems to be a lot that's tied to WWII in the regular MU. And we're a good 65 years away from that right now.

 

Cap was frozen in ice. That's fine. As time goes by you can just say he was frozen for longer and longer periods of time. But then you have guys like Nick Fury. Wasn't he supposed to have fought that war? HE was not frozen in ice and would have to be an old man right now. Ditto for Magneto (the most muscular "old man" in comics) who's origin is rooted in WWII. He would be so old right now, he would NOT be able to cause any kind of trouble for the X Men.

 

You would imagine they would need to do a complete reboot at some point. My only suggestion is to also reboot the prices! $2.50 is fair...

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There seems to be a lot that's tied to WWII in the regular MU. And we're a good 65 years away from that right now.

 

Cap was frozen in ice. That's fine. As time goes by you can just say he was frozen for longer and longer periods of time. But then you have guys like Nick Fury. Wasn't he supposed to have fought that war? HE was not frozen in ice and would have to be an old man right now. Ditto for Magneto (the most muscular "old man" in comics) who's origin is rooted in WWII. He would be so old right now, he would NOT be able to cause any kind of trouble for the X Men.

 

You would imagine they would need to do a complete reboot at some point. My only suggestion is to also reboot the prices! $2.50 is fair...

 

Well, they've explained Nick Fury's slow aging with the Infinity Formula. A Once a year dose since the 40's has drastically slowed his aging process. But, you're right. As more time passes some of the origin stories seem more and more out of place and bizarre.

 

Frank Castle as a Vietnam Vet is another that comes to mind. I'd really rather not have a re-boot, though. If you think about a lot of the stories in their full context - it won't work - so don't.

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Then there's the question of what to do about the classic stories that define the way the characters are today. Your "Death of Gwen Stacey", "Dark Phoenix Saga", etc...They'll either never have happened OR they'll try and redo them and HOPE they turn out half as good.

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Well, they've explained Nick Fury's slow aging with the Infinity Formula. A Once a year dose since the 40's has drastically slowed his aging process.

 

Haha...I consider myself to know a thing or two about comics and yet I never knew about that little tid bit. Ridiculous!

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There seems to be a lot that's tied to WWII in the regular MU. And we're a good 65 years away from that right now.

 

Cap was frozen in ice. That's fine. As time goes by you can just say he was frozen for longer and longer periods of time. But then you have guys like Nick Fury. Wasn't he supposed to have fought that war? HE was not frozen in ice and would have to be an old man right now. Ditto for Magneto (the most muscular "old man" in comics) who's origin is rooted in WWII. He would be so old right now, he would NOT be able to cause any kind of trouble for the X Men.

 

You would imagine they would need to do a complete reboot at some point. My only suggestion is to also reboot the prices! $2.50 is fair...

 

Hey everyone,

 

To respond to Cap, Fury and Magneto age issues. Cap's serum helps retain his youth. It was revealed awhile back that Fury began taking a youth serum when he began involvement with Shield. Magneto's youth issue was addressed more inventively. In the 70's he was punished by a cosmic being who reverted him to a baby and was given care to Moira McTaggert. He aged to his prime (not sure how i think Uncanny #105 explains or something like that). This is why he should be depicted as around 35.

 

I don't mind clones and i'm a survivor of the Spider Clone Saga, what ruined spiderman for me was the return of Norman Osborn and the Return of Aunt May. Both characters should have remained Dead, it was very appropriate to the story line.

 

I enjoyed the death of Superman line and how they brought him back, but the magical healing of Batman's back was a bit much. Barry Allen and Green Aarow should've remained dead. I'm on the fence about Jason Todd as well as Hal Jordan (although i did like him as spectre).

 

I actually am in favor of Bucky's return and his picking up the mantle of Captain America, but i think Cap should've stayed dead. This is why i really don't buy comics anymore.

 

regards

joshua

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Eh... I wouldn't change a thing I simply don't read it if I don't enjoy it :)

 

RIght now I'm highly enjoying

 

Guardians of the galaxy

nova

war of kings story arc

Pretty much anything cosmic type like the annihilation arcs :)

Secret warriors

Avengers the initiative

Might avengers is great fun

siege ( main title, & also embedded )

 

&Hmm... Yeah I could name a few more but should stop there...

 

With the exception of Secret Warriors, ALL of those books are getting cancelled/coming to an end.

You think I don't know whats going on ?.. The point is there is a lot of marvel stuff I enjoy & that won't change even if the books do... & Nova & gotg are not being canceled they are just being put on hold while the The Thanos Imperative is going on...

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I'm one of the folks who also doesn't really care for the 'Ultimate' titles. I'm fine with all the continuity-confusing stuff simply being labeled as an alternate universe (I'm kinda Marvel-dogmatic that way).

 

I'm honestly at a loss when it comes to trying to upgrade/retcon a classic storyline like the 'Death of Gwen Stacey' or explaining away Cap's or Frank Castle's age/veteran relevance when it's not as easy as say, Nick Fury or Magneto's issues were done. When you think about it, Big Pun should soon be replacing Cap as the 'soldier out of his era'.

 

As far as ones that have already taken place, the one I really don't care for is the return of Norman Osborne, that was a textbook case of the wrong people making really wrong decisions on the direction of the book...(Yes, this is a shot at Bob Harras, a man who held the title of 'Editor', yet couldn't even correctly spell words as well as your average 3rd-grader! He and he alone is responsible for destroying one of the best stories in comics and I'd say one of, if not THE defining moment in Spider-Man history. The writers didn't want it, the stockholders or the actual Marvel hierarchy at the time didn't want it, Bob Harras wanted it! I honestly hope he gets nut-cancer and has to be castrated, and on his way home from the hospital gets squashed by a steam-roller. But I digress...)

 

I'm hoping that eventually another creative team will not have to deal with so much overlording from an overzealous control-freak editor and Osborne's return can be better explained as a sort of 'hiccup' in the multiverse that gets rectified sooner or later, depending on whatever avenue this as-yet hypothetical creative team takes with it. (Personally, I was really hoping he was a Skrull, but yet another opportunity wasted. I would've even settled for one of the Jackal's clones, but as clones a touchey subject as well, I'll pass on discussing this one any further.)

 

This might be a little off-topic, but I can't even tell you how I think they're going to put the genie back in the bottle with Spidey's identity being public knowledge now. I'd love to see how they pull this one off.

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I'm one of the folks who also doesn't really care for the 'Ultimate' titles. I'm fine with all the continuity-confusing stuff simply being labeled as an alternate universe (I'm kinda Marvel-dogmatic that way).

 

I'm honestly at a loss when it comes to trying to upgrade/retcon a classic storyline like the 'Death of Gwen Stacey' or explaining away Cap's or Frank Castle's age/veteran relevance when it's not as easy as say, Nick Fury or Magneto's issues were done. When you think about it, Big Pun should soon be replacing Cap as the 'soldier out of his era'.

 

As far as ones that have already taken place, the one I really don't care for is the return of Norman Osborne, that was a textbook case of the wrong people making really wrong decisions on the direction of the book...(Yes, this is a shot at Bob Harras, a man who held the title of 'Editor', yet couldn't even correctly spell words as well as your average 3rd-grader! He and he alone is responsible for destroying one of the best stories in comics and I'd say one of, if not THE defining moment in Spider-Man history. The writers didn't want it, the stockholders or the actual Marvel hierarchy at the time didn't want it, Bob Harras wanted it! I honestly hope he gets nut-cancer and has to be castrated, and on his way home from the hospital gets squashed by a steam-roller. But I digress...)

 

I'm hoping that eventually another creative team will not have to deal with so much overlording from an overzealous control-freak editor and Osborne's return can be better explained as a sort of 'hiccup' in the multiverse that gets rectified sooner or later, depending on whatever avenue this as-yet hypothetical creative team takes with it. (Personally, I was really hoping he was a Skrull, but yet another opportunity wasted. I would've even settled for one of the Jackal's clones, but as clones a touchey subject as well, I'll pass on discussing this one any further.)

 

This might be a little off-topic, but I can't even tell you how I think they're going to put the genie back in the bottle with Spidey's identity being public knowledge now. I'd love to see how they pull this one off.

 

Yeah, Spider-Man had been dealt more blows by bad editing than by any super villian ever. It's still going to this day. To the point where it will be a loooong time before I even think about touching one of his books again.

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This might be a little off-topic, but I can't even tell you how I think they're going to put the genie back in the bottle with Spidey's identity being public knowledge now. I'd love to see how they pull this one off.

 

They've already gotten rid of Spidey's identity being public knowledge with a deal with the devil (Mephisto.) Spider-Man had his identity wiped from everyone's memory - including his New Avengers teammates (but he re-told them) and had Aunt May no longer on her death bed. But it cost him his wife and, apparently, his ability to teach. It was just a slick way to get Peter back to his single web-slingin' days whilst snapping pics for the Bugle.

 

Not the greatest story telling, mind you, but it's what happened.

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This might be a little off-topic, but I can't even tell you how I think they're going to put the genie back in the bottle with Spidey's identity being public knowledge now. I'd love to see how they pull this one off.

 

They've already gotten rid of Spidey's identity being public knowledge with a deal with the devil (Mephisto.) Spider-Man had his identity wiped from everyone's memory - including his New Avengers teammates (but he re-told them) and had Aunt May no longer on her death bed. But it cost him his wife and, apparently, his ability to teach. It was just a slick way to get Peter back to his single web-slingin' days whilst snapping pics for the Bugle.

 

Not the greatest story telling, mind you, but it's what happened.

 

In other words: They took away everthing that was new and different about Spidey; his finally getting a real job, Aunt May finally croaking, his identity being revealed, and opted to say, "Uhhhm...never mind" because they were too scared to evolve the character anywhere past the way he was 50 years ago.

 

The mind boggeling thing is just a few months earlier, JoeQ's justification for revealing Spidey's ID was to be able to tell NEW stories!

 

Sorry, this topic always gets me fired up.

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I agree with Yojoebro as soon as brand new day happened I dropped Spider Man's books it's like is impossible for the character to evolve. That was the worst decision in comics I have ever seen it's like sticking a middle finger to the fans. Spider Man's unmasking was one of the most defining moments in civil war and they make that go away why? Why can't Spider Man get married, get a job, see his aunt die in other words why can't Peter Parker grow up??? I was so annoyed by the decision that Spider-Man dropped from my top 3 favorite superheroes. This is the problem nowadays with fiction instead of moving forward and coming up with new ideas they're trying to go back to the old days and the way stuff used to be unsuccessfully I might add. I said fiction because it's also hapenning in the movies instead of coming up with new ideas we're getting shitty remakes of classics or video game/book adaptations and not to mention sequels but that's another topic entirely.

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In other words: They took away everthing that was new and different about Spidey; his finally getting a real job, Aunt May finally croaking, his identity being revealed, and opted to say, "Uhhhm...never mind" because they were too scared to evolve the character anywhere past the way he was 50 years ago.

 

The mind boggeling thing is just a few months earlier, JoeQ's justification for revealing Spidey's ID was to be able to tell NEW stories!

 

Sorry, this topic always gets me fired up.

 

To sum it up? Yep. It's also why I stopped reading any Spider-Man books. His greatest villain came back. His Aunt who was thought to be dead for years came back. Then they revealed his identity. Only to back peddle and get rid of that story. Plus wipe out him being a teacher and married. And Harry is back as well. *sigh*

 

But problem is: just any many people want their beloved characters to stay stagnant and static as others want to see them change. Can't please all the people all the time and all that.

 

But, more-so than anything, my biggest problem with Marvel was the Secret Invasion. With the Skrulls being integrated in the Marvel U they had a great opportunity to retcon a lot of mistakes and mess-ups over the course of 30+ years of history. Yet, they don't.

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I agree with Yojoebro as soon as brand new day happened I dropped Spider Man's books it's like is impossible for the character to evolve. That was the worst decision in comics I have ever seen it's like sticking a middle finger to the fans. Spider Man's unmasking was one of the most defining moments in civil war and they make that go away why? Why can't Spider Man get married, get a job, see his aunt die in other words why can't Peter Parker grow up??

 

Because the readers do not want him to grow up.

Once all these other things get added on, the character doesn't grow or evolve, it just gets more added baggage. Cartoon characters are, for all intents, icon-ified--they do not change much without losing what they are.

Petter Parker works best as the unlucky guy with an incredible power--that's the very essence of who he is.

Now, I don't know about you........but a guy with a super-model for a wife, and incredible powers isn't what I'd consider to be "unlucky".

Peter had all kinds of people around him that liked and respected him, a gorgeous wife, a loving aunt, and exciting albeit difficult career--and what did the character do? He got into a awful trend of whining about it.....how far does that go without it souring the character? Someone who is always in literal spite of all the positive things around them isn't heroic, they are wretched. Peter works better as the loveable "loser" who doesn't have all of those things... YET. The promise of gaining those things gives the character hope, which is a big part of his appeal.

Serialized fiction cycles its development of the character's traits because, sooner or later, the development of the character reaches an impasse.

 

Logically, Peter should develop relationships and marry, he should grow older and have kids, his aunt should die and he should move on-and then the logic needs to be extended...he should get to a point where he's fed up with the crap in his life and either give up the career as a superhero or be killed in action. That solves what??

 

It doesn't make the readers happy either, so a reset happens and the character "starts all over".

Sure, you can tell "new stories" by writing the character in a linear way, but eventually you reach a point where its no longer that character. Peter Parker, should......by rights, be AT LEAST in his late 30's or 40's.

But its been well-established that comic characters do not abide by a conventional chronology--they operate under a floating chronology--and THEY HAVE TO!

Otherwise, Batman would be pushing 90 years old now, and still be the SAME GUY. Spider-man would be pushing 60, and that is clearly not the case.

Its a conceit that readers have to accept, and if they accept one conceit, then why not others?

Comic book character are not meant to fully mirror our lives and wants, they just dramatize them. Its in that drama that we identify with them and develop empathy for them. But the rules for their lives are different, contrived and structured by the needs of a serialized story.

That is just the way it is.

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I'll agree with everthing you said up there. The problem is, we've seen ALL those "hard luck Peter" stories. Peter can't get a date, Peter can't sell a photo to the Daily Bugle, Peter's Aunt May is worrying about him...etc. We've seen them in the Lee/Dicto books and everything beyond, we've seen them (and WILL see them again) in the movies...COME ON!

 

You can still be true to the character of Spider-Man if he's a high school science teacher. All he's learned about power and responibility can still be a part of him and his books and adventures IF you have smart writers and editors heading it up. Now if Spider-Man suddenly went out and started throwing thugs off roof tops, that would be different, he'd be straying from who he is, and THAT would be bad. But having Spidey get married-while it MAY not exactly be "hard luck Peter" anymore- is not changing the essence of who the character is.

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I'll agree with everthing you said up there. The problem is, we've seen ALL those "hard luck Peter" stories. Peter can't get a date, Peter can't sell a photo to the Daily Bugle, Peter's Aunt May is worrying about him...etc. We've seen them in the Lee/Dicto books and everything beyond, we've seen them (and WILL see them again) in the movies...COME ON!

 

You can still be true to the character of Spider-Man if he's a high school science teacher. All he's learned about power and responibility can still be a part of him and his books and adventures IF you have smart writers and editors heading it up. Now if Spider-Man suddenly went out and started throwing thugs off roof tops, that would be different, he'd be straying from who he is, and THAT would be bad. But having Spidey get married-while it MAY not exactly be "hard luck Peter" anymore- is not changing the essence of who the character is.

 

Exactly! one example of this is the first couple of issues of New Avengers where we see the group fighting villains espcaping from the Raft but Spidey is the one who gets ambushed and ends up with broken arm. Then we see him joining the Avengers because he could use the money only to find out they're no longer getting paid. Writers like Brian Michael Bendis and J. Michael Stracyzinski proved that you could take the Spider-Man/Peter Parker character move him to avengers tower, joined the avengers but still be the fun character he always was, he would still make jokes, make mistakes and get in over his head. Then along comes Joephisto and decides that we can do away with years of comic book history and have Peter Parker give up his wife,marriage and the last couple of years of his life just because he can't let go of his aunt. Awful if you ask me.

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