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ROC movie tests better then ROTF


Ccav

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Just to get a better idea of where I'm coming from all the time, and where my head is usually at, with regards to my ideas about what makes G.I.joe "cool" and why I've been a fan for so long and moved right from my childhood of playing with 12" Joes to collecting the 3 3/4" version...here's some of the comic books i grew up with, many I collected in my youth, and some just to showcase how I viewed the fantasy world of comic book hero's, soldiers and "WAR" and you'll maybe see how much of THAT showed up in much of the ARAH line and mythos?

 

Look thru these comic images and try to spot some of the influences that may have shown themselves in the form of ARAH G.I.Joe.

 

 

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8038/joear.jpg

 

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8571/joebv.jpg

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/253/joecr.jpg

 

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/417/joed.jpg

 

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1082/joee.jpg

 

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1691/joeln.jpg

 

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2631/joeib.jpg

 

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5963/joehj.jpg

 

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8004/joej.jpg

 

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1161/joefq.jpg

 

 

Old fashioned WWII looking G.I.'s doing battle with Nazi's, monsters, robots and other super powered villains, yet the perseverance and resolve of the soldiers always won out against any foe with ANY amount of high tech equipment and crazy scheme.

 

I always liked that part of ARAH and all the crazy personalities and wardrobe of the INDIVIDUAL members, adding their own personal touch to the team.

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I always liked that part of ARAH and all the crazy personalities and wardrobe of the INDIVIDUAL members, adding their own personal touch to the team.

 

Those covers are awesome VH........I was a history major in college......WWII was and still is by far my favorite time period.

 

 

I agree.......that's what upset me the most about the movie when I first started to see pictures of the Joes.........no imagination whatsoever from the design staff.....or Sommers. I hate the fact that they say they would look like the village people, most of those uniforms were based off uniform designs of one form or another. They have a million cool designs right in front of them.....and they use "The Matrix" playbook for making movies.

 

 

That's something that will be missing from this movie...........

 

I just hope its cooler than "Delta Force" my mom can tell you that I almost broke the VHS tape we had of it when I was little.........Chuck Norris, AWE Strikers and dirt bikes with missile's on them......80's GREATNESS........I still haven't seen ROC, but I'm thinking 80's Delta Force could take the 09' movie Joes.

 

 

delta.jpg

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I have to say, first of all, your NOT being fair. All we have is, what 2 or 3 crappy trailers that show the same scenes of Paris? How do you KNOW the characters aren't going to act like "who they are supposed to act like"? None of us have actually seen the movie yet.

 

It's no different than those that have already boasted about how GREAT this movie is going to be. ALL our opinions are merely based on what we've seen thus far of the images, the previews, the toys, the trailers, the reviews etc.. and what observations we make based on any of that. if those "observations" are not to anothers liking, then it's easy to dismiss them as being based upon very little or not enough.

 

Believe me, the same attmepts to dismiss disliked opinions of the movie will continue even AFTER we've all seen it. :)

 

Was the Resolute version of these characters good? Why were those versions acceptable but the, as currently unknown, movie versions not?

 

That's not even all that much of a comparison is it? Another cartoon of a popular cartoon vs the live-action version they're touting as "the cartoon come to life"? Resolute made changes to uniforms but did a helluva job of re-creating the attitudes, voices and personalities of the characters, as they were portrayed in the original, so yes....I was quite pleased and "accepted" it.

 

So, for you, it boils down to the characters looking and acting (talking? wha?) "correct". Ignoring the comic versions here, how would that have to be? The cartoons had certain limitations and weren't exactly considered dramatic.

 

The movie opted to use very FEW of the many characters from the original cartoon, so they've dodged having to re-create too much of that already. Heavy Duty? Ripcord? Breaker? Cover Girl? #WTF# Why not Gung-Ho? Shipwreck? Bazooka? Roadblock? Flint? Lady-Jaye? Alpine?

 

The review didn't say "COMIC BOOK come to life" or "DEVILS DUE come to life" or SIGMA SIX come to life" or "RESOLUTE come to life" it said "CARTOON come to life" and that cartoon has a very set in stone grounded portrayal of these characters, in looks, attitude, uniform style, voice, accents, leading roles vs supporting roles etc..

 

I don't feel this movie even comes close.....based on the information I have in order to make that early call.

 

 

And, also, just how many character did you expect to see? Again using Resolute as an example, how many "main" characters were there? How many characters were just cameos?

 

This is an origin movie. As with X-Men, you can only have so many characters. And, as with X-Men, if there are sequels, I bet we will see plenty more Joes and Cobras but did you REALLY expect to see them all?

 

If this was truly an "origin movie" then wouldn't there be a need for MORE "original 13" Joes, and in some more basic uniforms apart from accelarator suits? Where's Stalker? Doc? Roadblock? Rock-n-Roll? Clutch?

 

Audiences have short attention spans, and don't really require all the "origin" crap Hollywood likes to obsess over these days. Best way to start off is with a BANG!! G.I.Joe fighting Cobra, Cobra Commander already in power and fortified, Joe's already been thru hell and back and part of the RAH team, lots of action and excitement in the first 15 minutes of the film (like saving Private Ryan or even the opening of the G.I.Joe The Movie around the statue of liberty) have the Cobras retreat to try again another day, set up the plot of what the next attempt will be, showcase some of the standout characters for THIS film, and forget all the baby stepping along, to develop characters that should just be COOL right off the screen, without their whole life story being addressed FIRST. BORING!

 

None of that really means anything, because the film is already made, and it's what it is, but I do have some complaints that won't be liked, but it's only because i have too much time and interest invested in the material, so I'm a hard sell. This movie doesn't need my approval to be a hit...the audiences and overall repsonse by the masses will determine that. :)

 

I just really REALLY have to laugh at a critics assertion that this thing could even be anywhere near the CARTOON....come to life? All it is character names, so of course it's based on the cartoon, but "based" is not "come to life". I have a more definite description in my head of what would merit such a statement, and that's all I'm going on about really...that review.

 

Ok this is the THIRD time I've tried to respond. Maybe I should take the hint lol. I'll keep it brief.

 

Your right about moviegoers having short attention spans (I decribed it as the attention span of a fruit fly). I think the idea of an "origin" is to help the audience relate. Ironman, I think, needed to be an origin because people weren't really familiar with the character (you mean that robot guy?), for example. Does G.I. Joe? Probably not. Good guy soldiers fighting "terrorists" (are they even allowed to USE that word anymore? I bet it doesn't appear in the movie...) is pretty standard.

 

But something to bear in mind, this is NOT the origin of G.I. Joe. This is the "origin" of COBRA. From what it looks in the trailers, G.I. Joe already exists prior to Duke and Ripcord ever even hearing about them. But that is another common movie trick which, in this case, probably works better than a "real" origin. And that is bringing the new guy(s) into the fold and having to explain stuff to them (and, thereby, the audience).

 

I do see where your coming from on SOME of the characters. Duke is the best example. What has Duke always been? He's always been the team/field leader. So the movie version makes him the newbie? The other characters? We can only speculate.

 

So who DID they pick for the movie? Duke, Heavy Duty, Scarlett, Snake Eyes, Hawk, Breaker, Ripcord, and Cover Girl. What's wrong with those choices? The first 5 are "core characters". Your already familiar with the concept so why would you expect anything else? Cover Girl is the "other necessary chick" and Ripcord is the comic relief. Breaker is really the only "changeable" character just so long as he was a comm/computer guy (except Dial-Tone). Why SHOULD they have included Alpine or Gung-Ho or Snow Job or whomever? Actually Snow Job makes sense lol. Or the O13.

 

How many characters would YOU have included? And, no, I'm not talking cameos or anything (I don't get the impression Cover Girl even does anything in the movie but get coffee for Hawk).

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So who DID they pick for the movie? Duke, Heavy Duty, Scarlett, Snake Eyes, Hawk, Breaker, Ripcord, and Cover Girl. What's wrong with those choices? The first 5 are "core characters". Your already familiar with the concept so why would you expect anything else? Cover Girl is the "other necessary chick" and Ripcord is the comic relief. Breaker is really the only "changeable" character just so long as he was a comm/computer guy (except Dial-Tone). Why SHOULD they have included Alpine or Gung-Ho or Snow Job or whomever? Actually Snow Job makes sense lol. Or the O13.

 

How many characters would YOU have included? And, no, I'm not talking cameos or anything (I don't get the impression Cover Girl even does anything in the movie but get coffee for Hawk).

 

I'm still refuting the idea of this movie being the "CARTOON COME TO LIFE" ^_^

 

For me to ever AGREE with that claim....I would have to see Flint and Lady Jaye, Shipwreck (in classic sailor suit and parrot) Bazooka (in Red jersey) Gung Ho (if he's too "Village People" for everyone, he could LOOk like this badass...)

 

mnpic2.GIF

 

Roadblock (obviously over..{gaak} Heavy Duty) Dusty for the desert excursions, Stalker, Doc, Alpine and Snow Job. Then, I'd think they picked up where the cartoon left off and brought it to LIFE!

 

This movie doesn't do that...it just brings an old story to a new generation, or audience. I liked the "old" story.

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So who DID they pick for the movie? Duke, Heavy Duty, Scarlett, Snake Eyes, Hawk, Breaker, Ripcord, and Cover Girl. What's wrong with those choices? The first 5 are "core characters". Your already familiar with the concept so why would you expect anything else? Cover Girl is the "other necessary chick" and Ripcord is the comic relief. Breaker is really the only "changeable" character just so long as he was a comm/computer guy (except Dial-Tone). Why SHOULD they have included Alpine or Gung-Ho or Snow Job or whomever? Actually Snow Job makes sense lol. Or the O13.

 

How many characters would YOU have included? And, no, I'm not talking cameos or anything (I don't get the impression Cover Girl even does anything in the movie but get coffee for Hawk).

 

I'm still refuting the idea of this movie being the "CARTOON COME TO LIFE" ^_^

 

For me to ever AGREE with that claim....I would have to see Flint and Lady Jaye, Shipwreck (in classic sailor suit and parrot) Bazooka (in Red jersey) Gung Ho (if he's too "Village People" for everyone, he could LOOk like this badass...)

 

mnpic2.GIF

 

Roadblock (obviously over..{gaak} Heavy Duty) Dusty for the desert excursions, Stalker, Doc, Alpine and Snow Job. Then, I'd think they picked up where the cartoon left off and brought it to LIFE!

 

This movie doesn't do that...it just brings an old story to a new generation, or audience. I liked the "old" story.

 

Cheater!!! @smilepunch@

 

I think the "comes to life" thing refers to the basic way the cartoons were handled, not the characters themselves. The charcters were moot (Resolute is a good example of that). As I said above all the basic elements of one of the cartoon episode SEEMS to be present. The bad guys hatch a "MacGuffin Plot". The Joes are mobilized. The action takes place at a few "environmental" locations (in this case, urban, arctic and undersea at the least). The Joes some how find Cobra's base. Said base is destroyed.

 

The only two (well technically two) factors that, as far as I can tell at this point, that differ from the cartoon way is that the movie will be more action/serious then the toon was and I expect to see guys get gunned down...no parachutes or lasers.

 

Also, why THOSE characters? Again, what's wrong with the ones the picked? I mean, for example, why would Shipwreck be dressed as a sailor from the village people as opposed to what a modern sailor would wear (which, I'd imagine woujld look a little more like Topside)?

 

I understand the idea of having them "look" accurate, but why CAN'T they look reality accurate? I mean to continue the Shipwreck example, that's how sailors looked in 1985. That's not how they look now. So why should the character? If, as you said its a combination of the look, the way they talk, and the way they act...your basically saying the way they look trumps anything else. That Shipwreck isn't Shipwreck unless he looks like Shipwreck.

 

Which, of course, begs the question of which Shipwreck.

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Also, why THOSE characters? Again, what's wrong with the ones the picked? I mean, for example, why would Shipwreck be dressed as a sailor from the village people as opposed to what a modern sailor would wear (which, I'd imagine woujld look a little more like Topside)?

 

I understand the idea of having them "look" accurate, but why CAN'T they look reality accurate? I mean to continue the Shipwreck example, that's how sailors looked in 1985. That's not how they look now. So why should the character? If, as you said its a combination of the look, the way they talk, and the way they act...your basically saying the way they look trumps anything else. That Shipwreck isn't Shipwreck unless he looks like Shipwreck.

 

Which, of course, begs the question of which Shipwreck.

 

If it's "the CARTOON come to LIFE" I'd expect to see Shipwreck in his sailor Blues and talking like Jack Nicholson in The Last Detail.

 

I don't want HOLLYWOOD to update G.I.Joe or to make it more REAL or modernized. G.I.Joe was already futuristic as is, but kept the Joe team stuck in a sort of retro era of their particular branch of the military, and that was the charm and the COOL of all the characters. Like all those comic books i read, and how the war comics all had their eccentric and outrageous characters, which likely inspired Hama himself when he was contracted to write up the filecards for these toys.

 

When Hollywood gets a hold of sh@# like this, all they do is use the NAME and pay attention to nothing else, that identifies why everyone calls that soldier SHIPWRECK? They'll have him in there, but he'll be a undocver agent, or Ripcord is afraid to fly, or Breaker is the laser cannon expert, and Alpine is the demolitions guy and Cover Girl is the coffee go-getter. @loll@

 

I'm not real pleased with much of anything Hollywood is crapping out these days. They SUCK! All they can come up with is redo's of the classics, and now they're pumping out comic book hero's one right after the other, and not doing much justice to any of them.

 

Iron Man is about the best in a long time for me. I don't get the impression that ROC is going to match that. if it puts toys on the shelves...it will have my blessing regardless, because I'm really just about the toys, but I STILL know what kind of a movie I'd like to see made with these characters, and Summers ain't gettin' it.

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Hey VH...who is that in your pic man? Is that a member of the family or a friend?

 

Y'know, I may be excited about ROC, and I think it's gonna be really cool and alot of fun, but...I can also see where you're coming from. I would be perfectly happy with a straight-up iteration of the toy and comic Joes in a new movie. It may be a period piece and only click with a small niche audience, but I can totally understand the nostalgia factor when it comes to our beloved '80s Joes. There's just a gritty, Reagan-era, home-team, national-pride, blood-sweat-and-tears patriotism that came out of that period of American history that the younger crowd may not fully understand. G.I. Joe always embodied that for me. BUT...if I step back from that sentiment and just enjoy this as a fun summer movie, I'm totally stoked. I probably would have preferred the type of movie you would have VH, but ROC is what it is. It may not fit my personal vision of G.I. Joe on the big screen, but that doesn't mean I can't adapt my way of thinking and enjoy something different. That's the mentality I maintained when it came to Transformers 1 and 2, and I ended-up enjoying them tremendously.

 

I just like the whole stealth look they're going for. If G.I. Joe's gonna be this black-ops strike force that "flies under the radar" so to speak, then it makes sense for everyone to have black uniforms and body armor. And if Cobra is truly a worldwide threat, then the team needs to be a global team.

 

VH... you talking about '80s Joes makes me want George Perez and/or Michael Golden to do some new comic RAH material.

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Someone telling me that ROC is better then ROTF is akin to me asking someone what their dinner tastes like and they respond, "better than crap!!" It's not exactly setting a high standard for itself, which isn't surprising bc I doubt ROC will be very good at all.

 

I read somewhere that Destro's mask is made up of some type of nano tech. Any truth to that? I hope not.

 

..and the "cartoon come to life" sentiment is a horrible idea. I mean, shipwreck is one of my favorite joes, but to see a live actor w/ a parrot on his shoulder, saying some of the cheesy stuff shipwreck said..yeah, that'd be atrocious. I'd like the film to be a bit more serious than that, but I feel I'm going to be disappointed.

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I can totally understand the nostalgia factor when it comes to our beloved '80s Joes. There's just a gritty, Reagan-era, home-team, national-pride, blood-sweat-and-tears patriotism that came out of that period of American history that the younger crowd may not fully understand. G.I. Joe always embodied that for me.

 

 

#US1# #US1# #US1# #US1# #US1# #US1#

 

YES! YES! YES!! @yipee@

 

and since MOVIES are meant to serve as an escape from REALITY...all this business about how that wouldn't play well to today's audiences...is a giant bowl of corn-filled SHEEEEEEEEEEE-YOT!!

 

 

 

I probably would have preferred the type of movie you would have VH, but ROC is what it is. It may not fit my personal vision of G.I. Joe on the big screen, but that doesn't mean I can't adapt my way of thinking and enjoy something different. I just like the whole stealth look they're going for. If G.I. Joe's gonna be this black-ops strike force that "flies under the radar" so to speak, then it makes sense for everyone to have black uniforms and body armor. And if Cobra is truly a worldwide threat, then the team needs to be a global team.

 

Making the team maintain their individual looks, they're eccentric identities, their wild wardrobes and varieties of long beards, buzz cuts, cigar chompin' pet keepin' open vests, professional sport team supportin', wide range of expertise and patriotic, gung-ho YO-JOE yellin' WAYS...

 

Is what G.I.Joe was all about in the 80's!

 

Hasbro took my imagination from the 60's and 70's, took what my 12" nameless Joes and Adventure Team, kung-fu grip sportin', bearded, with life-like hair and change of clothes...got into on a daily play-by-play basis, via my own little personal world of imagination for the nameless bunch I had...and added ALL that right into the figures. What a gimmick also, becuase it forced the 80's kids to buy MORE of those little guys, rather than just one or two generic soldiers to create a character with, then they even provided an entire army of bad guys to boot!

 

At an age when I should have been in college working on my career and chasin' women, I got pulled right BACK into my childhood and had to HAVE these bad boys!

 

That's how much all that characterization got to me as a young 20 something, and why I don't buy that the same thing would be as cool or influential TODAY?

 

With the more gritty look of a live-action flick, better scripts and dialogue for the characters, actual injuries and death during battles....the characters could have stayed true to form and look and been made really COOL without worry over it still coming across too cartoony. The basics were sound (and apparently fairly impressive considering it's popularity?) and the basics were in the individualized characters banded together as ONE..as REAL AMERICAN HERO's! What's an "AMERICAN" anyway..but somebody born here (or now living here) that's from somewhere else? We're fairly global already and that was addressed in the team, even back then.

 

 

VH... you talking about '80s Joes makes me want George Perez and/or Michael Golden to do some new comic RAH material.

 

I always wondered what a Joe comic would look like with Joe Kubert or Jack Kirby at the helm?

 

WAIT-A-MINUTE?? We sorta did...

 

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2121/gijoec.jpg

 

DC introduced those in 1964!! I see Shipwreck, Ace, Grunt, Footloose, Wetsuit and some Cobra Eels right there! :)

 

 

Hey VH...who is that in your pic man? Is that a member of the family or a friend?

 

Well, remove the beard..and it does look a helluva lot like my cousins son, who's in the Marines now, over in Afghanistan, but it's actually Matthew McConaughey's stunt double from the movie Reign of Fire.

 

He's make a good Gung-Ho though, wouldn't he?

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Something else I'd like to point out about how I perceived the characters of ARAH and Cobra (after the initial "greenshirt" phase) was very similar to the popular (stand alone) super hero characters of all the comic books I read back in the day, like Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Spiderman, Black Panther etc..

 

as much as they had their OWN series of comics, when they came TOGETHER (as a "team") they were known as THE AVENGERS or JUSTICE LEAGUE of AMERICA!

 

as seen here..

 

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9859/avengers.jpg

 

With ARAH..you could of had a whole series dedicated to the AMAZING ADVENTURES of SNAKE EYES and then when he joined up with the others, they were called A REAL AMERICAN HERO'S as a group. This could have worked for all of them actually, with Duke having his own comic, Flint & Lady Jaye, Gung-Ho or Shipwreck? Each battling the forces of COBRA on land, on sea, from the air and even in SPACE, per their specialties, and when the going gets a little tough, they call in the rest of the troops of the RAH team, just like THE AVENGERS. ^_^

 

Look here...

 

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2451/joes33.jpg

 

compare that cover to the AVENGERS one, and the basic concept are both equal in the fact that each are individual (not in same uniforms or eccelarator suits) and each are very unique to one another but JOINED up for a mission to take out an evil plot from the enemy.

 

Flint, Beach Head, Snake Eyes, Dial-Tone, Footloose and even Lift-Ticket all teamed up as ACTION FORCE!

 

 

This was always what I was hoping the movie version would be like, and I'm not getting much of a vibe that it's what will be the case with ROC?

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