who would win in a fight?

[pesatyel]

I was thinking it would depend on a few factors like WHY they are fighting and how far apart they are. But as I thought about it, Prime would win.

 

He has the advantage of mobility, speed, firepower and range.

 

Cap is a smaller target but it would only take ONE hit to take him out.

 

Even for sake of argument (see below) Cap's shield CAN damage Prime, it would take several hits. At first I thought Cap's only real advantage was his ability to get in close and do some "hand to hand damage" (that is, climb up and rip stuff out) but all Prime has to do is transform.

 

 

yes, I realize that Cap's shield is made of adamantium!

 

However, this is a serious physics flaw that also falls on Wolverine all the time. Wolverine wouldn't ever be able to cut through most of the metal stuff that he does. He just isn't capable of creating enough force to do so.

 

it doesn't matter that adamantium is a harder metal than steel.

 

 

I give you this, take a steel knife and drive it through a phone book. YOU CAN'T! It doesn't matter than a knife is 1000X harder than a paper phone book, you can't do it.

 

So both Cap and Wolverine shouldn't be able to damage other metals, unless they were very thin

 

 

this is a very interesting point that I've never thought of. however (and I'm not saying you're wrong, just an added thought) one thing that Cap has that Wolverine does not, is velocity. his shield was physically designed for this purpose, it's going to pick up speed on the way to the target, therefore picking up power. Randy Johnson couldn't throw a 20 mph punch, but he can get the ball over the mound at around 100, because that's what the ball was designed for.

 

as for the steak knife through a phone book; no you couldn't, for 3 reasons. 1. it's serated which will slow down your thrust with each knotch. 2. a phonebook is not ONE object, so much as a collection of hundreds of thin objects, again slowing your thrust (slightly of course, but enough to make a difference) try stabbing a standard kitchen knife through a block of the pulp that phonebook paper is cut from and I'll bet you'll see a much different result. 3. unlike Cap's shield, a steak knife was never designed with the intention of stabbing phone books

 

It isn't just about how much for or how strong, but how SHARP. Wolverine's claws are supposed to be incredibly sharp.

 

Cap's shield? Depends on which author is using it. It can be sharp or it can be blunt depending on the story.

 

 

how sharp? Still, could you cut a phonebook in half with a razorblade or a razor-like item? Hell no. Could a machine? Probably.

 

It takes strength still.

 

Wolverine doesn't have super strength.

 

True, but as theLegacy points out, a phonebook is not the best example for a counterargument.

 

However, I WILL give a real example of a weapon that is considered "razor sharp".

 

The Katana.

 

Historically, katanas were sometimes tested by cutting up the bodies of criminals. There are even stories about beheading tests where, if the sword did not cut through cleanly on one stroke it was destroyed. There are stories of famous katanas in museums with ratings up to "5 bodies" (meaning the sword was able to cut through FIVE unarmored human bodies with 1 stroke) but, of course, the validity of that is unknown (from what I can tell it was generally 1 to 3 at most).

 

I also found this

on youtube. There are also a lot of vids of people cutting magazines and papers and things (with single strokes).

 

Now Wolverine's claws are supposed to be both stronger AND sharper then steel. Also, Wolverine's strength IS considered to be high (maybe not superhuman but higher than normal).

[CLAM]

cool video.. but I don't trust anything on youtube

[Viper Hunter]

I'm biased towards Captain America anyway....he's been around some 70 years or something already and he's taken out some rough and tough and almost IMPOSSIBLE competition over that span of time, things much tougher and ominous than even ol' Optimus Prime here.

 

Caps got super human strength, and super alloy shield and he's made of flesh and blood. His size is an advantage compared to Optimus, and his agility is also a bonus over tons of hydraulics and mechanical devices.

 

here's my contribution to the debate...

 

CAP vs OPTIMUS PRIME

[CLAM]

I'm biased towards Captain America anyway....he's been around some 70 years or something already and he's taken out some rough and tough and almost IMPOSSIBLE competition over that span of time, things much tougher and ominous than even ol' Optimus Prime here.

 

Caps got super human strength, and super alloy shield and he's made of flesh and blood. His size is an advantage compared to Optimus, and his agility is also a bonus over tons of hydraulics and mechanical devices.

 

here's my contribution to the debate...

 

CAP vs OPTIMUS PRIME

 

 

Cap doesn't have superhuman strength does he?

 

I thought he only had peak human strength.. like 800 pounds or whatever.

 

there are football players that can do 700

[pesatyel]

cool video.. but I don't trust anything on youtube

 

Heh, good point.

 

 

I'm biased towards Captain America anyway....he's been around some 70 years or something already and he's taken out some rough and tough and almost IMPOSSIBLE competition over that span of time, things much tougher and ominous than even ol' Optimus Prime here.

 

Caps got super human strength, and super alloy shield and he's made of flesh and blood. His size is an advantage compared to Optimus, and his agility is also a bonus over tons of hydraulics and mechanical devices.

 

here's my contribution to the debate...

 

CAP vs OPTIMUS PRIME

 

 

Cap doesn't have superhuman strength does he?

 

I thought he only had peak human strength.. like 800 pounds or whatever.

 

there are football players that can do 700

 

Depends on the writer, but generally, yeah, I think he's considered "peek human" and not "superhuman".

 

Oh, and 70 years? Wasn't he FROZEN for like half that?

[Viper Hunter]

cool video.. but I don't trust anything on youtube

 

Heh, good point.

 

 

I'm biased towards Captain America anyway....he's been around some 70 years or something already and he's taken out some rough and tough and almost IMPOSSIBLE competition over that span of time, things much tougher and ominous than even ol' Optimus Prime here.

 

Caps got super human strength, and super alloy shield and he's made of flesh and blood. His size is an advantage compared to Optimus, and his agility is also a bonus over tons of hydraulics and mechanical devices.

 

here's my contribution to the debate...

 

CAP vs OPTIMUS PRIME

 

 

Cap doesn't have superhuman strength does he?

 

I thought he only had peak human strength.. like 800 pounds or whatever.

 

there are football players that can do 700

 

Depends on the writer, but generally, yeah, I think he's considered "peek human" and not "superhuman".

 

Oh, and 70 years? Wasn't he FROZEN for like half that?

 

I don't really think we can exclude the word "super" in anything to do with Captain America? He's known as a "SUPER HERO" and he has super human strength. I've never even heard of "peek" before, and besides what might be authored in a wiki page, I'd have to do some back searching to see if Stan Lee wrote that in himself somewhere, that CA was just a "peek" performer of a SUPER hero?

 

The "70 years" is in REAL time, not character time. Captain America was introduced to comic fans in 1941 (ok..so minus a couple years on the 70, make it 68) and that's a pretty damn respectable history of beating baddies over the years, of all walks of life, aliens, robots, machines, ghosts, goblins and Adolph Hitler and then Red Skull. Look thru the comics and i bet we'll find a few Optimus prime type characters ALREADY taken out by Captain America?

 

 

 

EDIT: A little research proved me wrong! This very issue shows even the Scientist behind CA's new strength, declares him not "super human". I stand corrected!

 

origin of Captain America

[pesatyel]

cool video.. but I don't trust anything on youtube

 

Heh, good point.

 

 

I'm biased towards Captain America anyway....he's been around some 70 years or something already and he's taken out some rough and tough and almost IMPOSSIBLE competition over that span of time, things much tougher and ominous than even ol' Optimus Prime here.

 

Caps got super human strength, and super alloy shield and he's made of flesh and blood. His size is an advantage compared to Optimus, and his agility is also a bonus over tons of hydraulics and mechanical devices.

 

here's my contribution to the debate...

 

CAP vs OPTIMUS PRIME

 

 

Cap doesn't have superhuman strength does he?

 

I thought he only had peak human strength.. like 800 pounds or whatever.

 

there are football players that can do 700

 

Depends on the writer, but generally, yeah, I think he's considered "peek human" and not "superhuman".

 

Oh, and 70 years? Wasn't he FROZEN for like half that?

 

I don't really think we can exclude the word "super" in anything to do with Captain America? He's known as a "SUPER HERO" and he has super human strength. I've never even heard of "peek" before, and besides what might be authored in a wiki page, I'd have to do some back searching to see if Stan Lee wrote that in himself somewhere, that CA was just a "peek" performer of a SUPER hero?

 

The "70 years" is in REAL time, not character time. Captain America was introduced to comic fans in 1941 (ok..so minus a couple years on the 70, make it 68) and that's a pretty damn respectable history of beating baddies over the years, of all walks of life, aliens, robots, machines, ghosts, goblins and Adolph Hitler and then Red Skull. Look thru the comics and i bet we'll find a few Optimus prime type characters ALREADY taken out by Captain America?

 

 

 

EDIT: A little research proved me wrong! This very issue shows even the Scientist behind CA's new strength, declares him not "super human". I stand corrected!

 

origin of Captain America

 

Without your edit, I was going to bring up Batman....

[theLegacy]

man, considering someone called this the stupidest "who'd win in a fight ever," it's really carried on. I'm gonna respond to a few different things I've read in thethread.

 

not trusting the accuracy of tales regarding katanas that cut through human bodies (or even phone books is like not trusting tales of an alien robot that transforms into a big rig fighting an 80 year old super soldier. that's just crazy!

 

PEAK human strength is a real life term for having reached the max performance that a human can attain. if 800lbs was the absolute most a human could lift, only someone with peak strength can do it.

[Viper Hunter]

 

These hypothetical debates are no different than a couple of loud mouth bullies arguing that one's dad could beat the others dad at...insert skill of choice here.

 

My "dad" just so happens to be Captain America in this particular "dad" debate...so obviously I'm going to ratchet up his strengths and abilities, and likewise on the other side.

 

Now if this debate was meant to be serious and LOGICAL or scientific, I'll have to bow out in order to protect my sanity and to prevent myself from being accused of being something of a weirdo who thinks captain America and Optimus prime are REAL.....like our "dads' are REAL, but their abilities (as we would argue them at the age of, oh saaay...10!) are a little exaggerated?

[CLAM]

haha... I like Captain America better too.. I always had a soft spot for him.

 

I haven't been a big fan of Optimus since the 80's... and the movies turned him into a major wimp.

[colossus2]

CAP FTW!

 

he got shot and died, and now is coming back.

 

Optimus died and didn't get back up