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Batman Battle for the Cowl story line


TheMotta

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Talia and Batman had sex, and she bore a son.

Not sure if the Lazarus pit treatments augmented his age or not.

 

And , yes, by and far, comics are clearly not what the used to be!

 

Bring back stories like in the New Teen Titans and Grant Morrision/ Howard Porter's JLA run.

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Oh, I read your post. As you can see, I even agreed with some of it; but, clearly I wasn't as impressed with it as you were. I just pointed out the most glaringly incorrect thing you said (in that particular post, at least) and decided to give you a little information so you don't continue to make the same mistake in the future. When making an argument, it's very handy to NOT say things that are *completely wrong* while attempting to prove your point. Simply put: your example was incorrect, failed to back up your already suspect argument, and made you look incompetent.

 

There was nothing incorrect about my post. I just chose not to go into anal retentive fanboy detail about the ups and downs of Gerard Jones' career. It has absolutely nothing to do with the point that you still have not proven to have grasped. So it was the editor and not the writer? Big deal! The point ...pay attention now because here it is... is that the creatively limited powers that be could no longer work within the established premise of Hal Jordan as a Green Lantern and so steps were taken to demolish the establish premise and rebuild it into one that they did feel like working with. They took the lazy way out rather than find creative writers who could work within the established mythology of Hal Jordan.

 

Because in the year 2009, with many decades of continuity established for pretty much any major hero, there really isn't much middle ground. You can either play to the established history of a character and his supporting cast, or you can take things in a new direction. ).

 

Geez! Well, this limitation on your part is a good argument for why YOU shouldn't be writing comic books, but what if we could find a writer who isn't limited by such extreme thinking and can find that middle ground?

 

Ouch! You just been chomped by Da Big Dawg! HAAAA-WWWHHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

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Blackhand feels up dead people!

 

 

@loll@

 

 

I don't know why, but that was a lot funnier to me than it should have been.

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There was nothing incorrect about my post.

 

Sure there was; the example you very poorly used to try to make your point. The rest of your post was simply your opinion and therefore can't really be called 'correct' or 'incorrect'. It's at least an opinion that seems to have some coherent thinking behind it, unlike a lot of the other ones you've put forth here at TNI. The fact that you backpedaled and amended your example in your last post simply proves my point. Had you stated it correctly in the first place (or simply said 'Yeah, I said that wrong' and moved on), we wouldn't need to be having this conversation about why you were wrong. @dunce@

 

Geez! Well, this limitation on your part is a good argument for why YOU shouldn't be writing comic books, but what if we could find a writer who isn't limited by such extreme thinking and can find that middle ground?

 

Well, then surely your published comics history is quite extensive, right? You're quite certain that your way is better, some publisher out there must have given you a shot at doing things 'the BigDawg way' with an established superhero. So...dish it...which issues of which titles have you written?

 

Ouch! You just been chomped by Da Big Dawg! HAAAA-WWWHHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

 

Coming from the TNI DC Forums' resident crackpot, I'll take that with a grain of salt. @loll@

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Sure there was; the example you very poorly used to try to make your point.

 

No. There was nothing to correct in the first place. You went off on a very geeky fanboy tangent that was completely irrelevant to the point. "Gerard Jones quit and it was Ron Marz who blah blah blah...WAHHHH..." Huh? Who gives a damn? The basic idea remains and is supported historically by the trade press circulating at the time. I know this because I was there. The reasoning being put forth for what was being done boiled down to "We feel we've told all the stories there is to tell with Hal so we're bringing in a new Green Lantern." This isn't very far off from an actual quote. Whether this was one writer or another or an editor or a publisher, who really gives a damn? For some reason, this rather miniscule point seems to be what sets your sphincter to pulsate. The point remains. They had no idea what to do with the existing premise so they changed it to something they could work with. Basic Lazy Writing 101.

 

The rest of your post was simply your opinion and therefore can't really be called 'correct' or 'incorrect'.

 

Well, I guess it's easier to say this than to try to refute it, but as I said above, the editors, writers, and anyone connected to Green Lantern at the time pretty much admitted to this bit of "stunt writing" in the trade press at the time.

 

Well, then surely your published comics history is quite extensive, right? You're quite certain that your way is better, some publisher out there must have given you a shot at doing things 'the BigDawg way' with an established superhero. So...dish it...which issues of which titles have you written?

 

Soooooo...in order to critique a particular medium, you must first work professionally in that medium? I guess most of us shouldn't talk about the TV shows we like, the songs we listen to, the movies we've seen etc etc...You starting to see how stupid that answer was? Tsk Tsk..

 

Coming from the TNI DC Forums' resident crackpot, I'll take that with a grain of salt. @loll@

 

I'm sure it's got to be a little humiliating to have the Big Dawg lift a leg all over you, but that's what you get when you don't BEWARE O' DAWG!!!! AAAAAoOOOOCHHHH! YEAH!

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there is nothing wrong with x-books other than the fact that wolverine is in EVERY DAMN MARVEL COMIC are you gonna tell me that he can be in every place at the same time its not like madrox. the biggest mistake that i see in the past couple years was spider-man the "one more day" story was a fn joke. tell me what would you do if they just up and started taking the past 10-20 years of your favorite comic and said "ummmm yeah you know those great stories you read well........ they didn't happen now so you can read it like its happening for the first time cause now it is.... again" (insert awkward silence, now put your money on the counter and pay for a comic that was just raped of all its dignity). i'm upset about nightwing but at least dick is batman downside if they follow through with batman 666 then he is probably doomed. and just so it doesn't seem like i'm a marvel hater dc doesn't do stupid stuff too like how they have changed the universe a few times which changes small things like the crisis on infinite earths then they did it with final crisis and both companies have changed the future they set in place by killing people or bringing someone back to life. but i guess when you tell the same story for so long you will end up hearing it again and again it becomes hard to come up with new stories that are fresh and make sense.

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You went off on a very geeky fanboy tangent that was completely irrelevant to the point.

 

I shouldn't have to explain this, but calling somebody else a 'fanboy' to try to disparage them in a discussion about *comic books* is really weak. @smilepunch@

 

Well, I guess it's easier to say this than to try to refute it, but as I said above, the editors, writers, and anyone connected to Green Lantern at the time pretty much admitted to this bit of "stunt writing" in the trade press at the time.

 

Of course it was a stunt, done to try to follow up on the high sales of the Death of Superman and Knightfall storylines. I never disputed that, simply the manner in which you presented an argument, even going so far as to attribute a made up "I can't write Hal Jordan stories" quote to the writer and all. That's the point you fail to grasp; I don't dispute your opinion, just the 'fact' you tried to use to back it up.

 

Soooooo...in order to critique a particular medium, you must first work professionally in that medium? I guess most of us shouldn't talk about the TV shows we like, the songs we listen to, the movies we've seen etc etc...You starting to see how stupid that answer was? Tsk Tsk..

 

Critique the medium to your heart's content. However, when you declare someone else unfit to write comics, but have no qualifications of your own, be prepared to be called on it.

 

I'm sure it's got to be a little humiliating to have the Big Dawg lift a leg all over you, but that's what you get when you don't BEWARE O' DAWG!!!! AAAAAoOOOOCHHHH! YEAH!

 

I'm sure it would be, if it had ever happened. I, like most folks around here, realize that you being batshit goofy renders most of your arguments pretty much invalid in the first place. @loll@

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QUOTE (BigDawg @ Jun 10 2009, 12:38 AM) *

Soooooo...in order to critique a particular medium, you must first work professionally in that medium? I guess most of us shouldn't talk about the TV shows we like, the songs we listen to, the movies we've seen etc etc...You starting to see how stupid that answer was? Tsk Tsk..

 

 

Critique the medium to your heart's content. However, when you declare someone else unfit to write comics, but have no qualifications of your own, be prepared to be called on it.

 

Yea, when the critic is chewing on the person, as opposed to the work, having some qualifications helps make their point. If they don't have any, most of what they have to say ( outside of "I like this" or "I don't like this") becomes meaningless.

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I shouldn't have to explain this, but calling somebody else a 'fanboy' to try to disparage them in a discussion about *comic books* is really weak.

 

If you're going to engage in that type of geeky comic shop armchair lawyering, you have to be prepared be called a geek. "It was Gerard Jones blah blah blah...and then Ron Marz...Blah Blah Blah...!" Oy vey! What? No Dungeons and Dragons games to occupy your time? Sheesh!

 

I don't dispute your opinion, just the 'fact' you tried to use to back it up.

 

Let's try it again ...and I guess this is where you put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, etc... I didn't present any "incorrect" facts that needed clearing up. I just chose not to go into the inconsequential of who-wrote-what-and-when because it was all irrelevant. You're trying to play some sort of meaningless "gotcha" game with minutiae that has zero affect on the point.

 

I'm sure it would be, if it had ever happened. I, like most folks around here, realize that you being batshit goofy renders most of your arguments pretty much invalid in the first place. @loll@

 

 

Ah, you're just embarassed 'cus Da Big Dawg made you look silly on da message board and all your comic shop buddies are gonna make fun of you at the next Renaissance Fair! Don't worry! You're probably a tenth leve dwarf or something. They can't take that away from you!

 

Wooooooooofff!

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BATMAN R.I.P

 

Conclsion #681

 

 

Anyone else sorta Pissed that Bats died from a helicopter explosion? For me it was like WTF all this build up for that......

 

He didn't. You have to read Final Crisis #6.

 

Then come back...

 

spoiler below...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ok, so you've read FC 6 right? Yeah, that's how Batman "dies". And that doesn't really kill him. I mean, it kills his body, but his spirit then goes on to live life after life after life. Each more horrible than the last.

 

Anyway, in FC 2 Batman is captured by Darkseid's crew. They don't explain anything at all, but based on Batman 682, I'm guessing that after Batman 681, FC 2 takes place. For whatever reason, after Batman goes down in the chopper crash, he doesn't tell anyone he's alive and goes to the Justice League space station and then gets captured.

 

But yeah, I didn't like RIP at all. Battle for the Cowl was MUCH better and Batman & Robin 1 was good too. An interesting new dynamic on the legendary (ok, new) duo (pun intended).

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I bought the hardcover edition of the Batman R.I.P. trade and it implies Batman died in the helicopter crash. I had no idea I was supposed to go out and buy yet another comic book to know his "official" death. And that story is weak about him being alive but going to the space station and then getting captured.

 

Either way, I agree with TheMotta. I said it about Battle For The Cowl, too, but there was all this buildup and hype, and Batman apparently ends up dying in a helicopter crash. It didn't live up to my expectations. BFTC was better, but the end result was just predictable to me.

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I bought the hardcover edition of the Batman R.I.P. trade and it implies Batman died in the helicopter crash. I had no idea I was supposed to go out and buy yet another comic book to know his "official" death. And that story is weak about him being alive but going to the space station and then getting captured.

 

Either way, I agree with TheMotta. I said it about Battle For The Cowl, too, but there was all this buildup and hype, and Batman apparently ends up dying in a helicopter crash. It didn't live up to my expectations. BFTC was better, but the end result was just predictable to me.

 

 

I think if you collect only Batman books, then you are led to believe he died in the chopper crash (since I don't think any Bat book has mentioned the other story at all).

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I bought the hardcover edition of the Batman R.I.P. trade and it implies Batman died in the helicopter crash. I had no idea I was supposed to go out and buy yet another comic book to know his "official" death. And that story is weak about him being alive but going to the space station and then getting captured.

 

Either way, I agree with TheMotta. I said it about Battle For The Cowl, too, but there was all this buildup and hype, and Batman apparently ends up dying in a helicopter crash. It didn't live up to my expectations. BFTC was better, but the end result was just predictable to me.

 

 

I think if you collect only Batman books, then you are led to believe he died in the chopper crash (since I don't think any Bat book has mentioned the other story at all).

 

No! What happens to Batman is revealed in the issues following RIP, then the "Final Fate" or whatever is in Final Crisis #6.

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ok, so you've read FC 6 right? Yeah, that's how Batman "dies". And that doesn't really kill him. I mean, it kills his body, but his spirit then goes on to live life after life after life. Each more horrible than the last.

 

Anyway, in FC 2 Batman is captured by Darkseid's crew. They don't explain anything at all, but based on Batman 682, I'm guessing that after Batman 681, FC 2 takes place. For whatever reason, after Batman goes down in the chopper crash, he doesn't tell anyone he's alive and goes to the Justice League space station and then gets captured.

 

 

Oh my God! Is this how we're celebrating the 70th anniversary of Batman's first appearance?

 

Does anyone STILL want to tell me how comic books are better now than they used to be?

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My guess is that we haven't seen the last of Mr. Wayne ina Batman comic. I could see him coming back as a vigilante godfather type figure who controls all of Gothems heroes. An Oracle to the Nth degree you might say.

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I bought the hardcover edition of the Batman R.I.P. trade and it implies Batman died in the helicopter crash. I had no idea I was supposed to go out and buy yet another comic book to know his "official" death. And that story is weak about him being alive but going to the space station and then getting captured.

 

Either way, I agree with TheMotta. I said it about Battle For The Cowl, too, but there was all this buildup and hype, and Batman apparently ends up dying in a helicopter crash. It didn't live up to my expectations. BFTC was better, but the end result was just predictable to me.

 

 

I think if you collect only Batman books, then you are led to believe he died in the chopper crash (since I don't think any Bat book has mentioned the other story at all).

 

No! What happens to Batman is revealed in the issues following RIP, then the "Final Fate" or whatever is in Final Crisis #6.

 

Yeah, sorry, I meant none of the supporting cast from the bat books never really talk about the details of his death. And of course anyone who (like me) wasn't reading Final Crisis would have been completely in the dark as to what that issue was about. When I first read it, I thought those guys dredged him from the lake.

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My guess is that we haven't seen the last of Mr. Wayne ina Batman comic. I could see him coming back as a vigilante godfather type figure who controls all of Gothems heroes. An Oracle to the Nth degree you might say.

 

Well, supposedly in Red Robin (haven't read it yet), Tim is on a mission to find Bruce as he doesn't believe he's really dead.

 

My guess is that Bruce comes back by Batman 700.

 

Honestly, tho, I'm kinda digging the new Batman & Robin tho I suppose that dynamic will work with Bruce and Damian just as well.

 

I can't imagine Bruce coming back as anyone but Batman.

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If you're going to engage in that type of geeky comic shop armchair lawyering, you have to be prepared be called a geek. "It was Gerard Jones blah blah blah...and then Ron Marz...Blah Blah Blah...!" Oy vey! What? No Dungeons and Dragons games to occupy your time? Sheesh!

 

There's an old proverb about the pot and the kettle. ;) Your butt-hurt, bellyaching post about comic books on a toy collecting forum that started this whole back and forth was every bit as geeky as anything said in response. Maybe in 'BigDawg Crazyland' your viewpoints on comics are serious business, but around here you're just another fan griping 'cause things aren't the way you want 'em.

 

I can only assume at this point that between brain spasms over which figures stand next to which on another grown man's toy shelf, and your mouth-frothing hate over that black kid Static, there's not much room for actually having some clue as to what you're talking about.

 

Oh, and btw. I'm quite proud to be a geek; if you want to self-loathe, that's your issue. I certainly can't blame you. @loll@

 

Let's try it again ...and I guess this is where you put your fingers in your ears, close your eyes, etc... I didn't present any "incorrect" facts that needed clearing up. I just chose not to go into the inconsequential of who-wrote-what-and-when because it was all irrelevant. You're trying to play some sort of meaningless "gotcha" game with minutiae that has zero affect on the point.

 

Try it all you like. You were wrong; saying 'I chose not to go into it' when you specifically named a title and laid the change at the feet of the writer who argued against the decision is a load of nonsense. Deal with it. @smilepunch@

 

Ah, you're just embarassed 'cus Da Big Dawg made you look silly on da message board and all your comic shop buddies are gonna make fun of you at the next Renaissance Fair! Don't worry! You're probably a tenth leve dwarf or something. They can't take that away from you!

 

At this point I'm just addicted to the laughs I get watching you squeak insults in third person like you think you're The Rock, when you come across more like The Miz. @loll@

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Your butt-hurt, bellyaching post about comic books on a toy collecting forum that started this whole back and forth was every bit as geeky as anything said in response.

 

Not really which is why your response was ridiculous.

 

Oh, and btw. I'm quite proud to be a geek;

 

That much is obvious! Carry those Magic cards and your twenty-sided die proudly... and bone up on what comic writer wrote what when because you never know when you can inject that into an unrelated topic.

 

Try it all you like. You were wrong; saying 'I chose not to go into it' when you specifically named a title and laid the change at the feet of the writer who argued against the decision is a load of nonsense.

 

I never named a writer because it wasn't relevant as I was criticizing the decision and the decision makers. You inexplicable saw the chance to...I don't know...avenge Gerard Jones' ghost or something... and went off on your nerd lecture circuit making a fool out of yourself.

 

At this point I'm just addicted to the laughs I get watching you squeak insults in third person like you think you're The Rock, when you come across more like The Miz. @loll@

 

 

OooH! Ouch! And a wrestling geek too! Instead of trying to defend your mistakes, you might want to go off and try laying the smackdown on your virginity.

 

Ouch! Point ...and match... Da Big Dawg! HAAAAOOOOOOWWWWWLLLLLLLLL!!!!!

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Is this FC this an on going story I just bought off ebay issue 1-7 character cover versions. Is there anything else i would need to read to get the FULL story of Batman's death cause I have ALL of the just batman comic and Detective comics as well and I an SHOCKED that he did not die in that explosion

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I bought the hardcover edition of the Batman R.I.P. trade and it implies Batman died in the helicopter crash. I had no idea I was supposed to go out and buy yet another comic book to know his "official" death. And that story is weak about him being alive but going to the space station and then getting captured.

 

Either way, I agree with TheMotta. I said it about Battle For The Cowl, too, but there was all this buildup and hype, and Batman apparently ends up dying in a helicopter crash. It didn't live up to my expectations. BFTC was better, but the end result was just predictable to me.

 

I read RIP & did not find it all that good , BFTC was better but still lacking... there was not much battling going on ala people fighting over/trying to be batman/replace batman which the tittle leads you believe .... & The series is sort of collected into itself as IMO anyways you don't really have to read any of the little BFTC offshots that they made ... I have read batman & robin #1 & find it interesting I have not read red robin yet but it also sounds interesting ....

 

 

Personally I try to stick with just the GL books because they tend to just stick to there own line & not spread out through a ton of other dc books :S I just find it hard to keep up with dc for some reason..

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I bought the hardcover edition of the Batman R.I.P. trade and it implies Batman died in the helicopter crash. I had no idea I was supposed to go out and buy yet another comic book to know his "official" death. And that story is weak about him being alive but going to the space station and then getting captured.

 

Either way, I agree with TheMotta. I said it about Battle For The Cowl, too, but there was all this buildup and hype, and Batman apparently ends up dying in a helicopter crash. It didn't live up to my expectations. BFTC was better, but the end result was just predictable to me.

 

I read RIP & did not find it all that good , BFTC was better but still lacking... there was not much battling going on ala people fighting over/trying to be batman/replace batman which the tittle leads you believe .... & The series is sort of collected into itself as IMO anyways you don't really have to read any of the little BFTC offshots that they made ... I have read batman & robin #1 & find it interesting I have not read red robin yet but it also sounds interesting ....

 

 

Personally I try to stick with just the GL books because they tend to just stick to there own line & not spread out through a ton of other dc books :S I just find it hard to keep up with dc for some reason..

 

I liked BFTC. But I have one question: Did they resolve the whole Black Mask thing? Cause they haven't touched on it in Batman 687 or Batman & Robin 1 (in fact in B&R1, they introduce a new villain which has potential).

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