'G.I. Joe: The Rise Of Cobra'

[revsears]

Since it's not 1982 anymore. The movie can't just pander to old school fans. I wish that movie could be made, but the bottom line is that the movie producers and Hasbro need to watch their bottom lines. They are money making (hopefully for their sake) companies after all.

 

Your right time greatly changes things. I mean Honestly no other toyline from the 80's surivived unchanged (oh wait... i still see classic looking sw toys, transformer toys, recently tmnt and motu toys on the shelves...) Well never mind that point. No one drinks the popular drinks from back then (* Chugs his mountion dew.) Retro fads are small things usually looked down upon, I mean it wasn't like Austin powers was successful (oh wait, aren't they going to make a 4th one?) Tv shows like The Dukes of Hazard, Brady Bunch, Twilight zone etc, never come back simliar to their original forms (oh btw that total recall movie is getting remade, you hear?) Nikes, and Reebox are unheard of these days.

 

Things come in waves! remember that 80's nostalgia wave awhile back? If the 80's were so terrible you would think we would forget them, and that everything from that era that still exists would be completely unrecognizable. But there has been a whole tv show to declare our love for the 80's! I'm not saying things should change some. But this only resembles sigma six not G.I.Joe and as it has been pointed out, that line got scrapped in favor of the closet thing to rah designs since the originals themselves.

[revsears]

This has nothing to do with it being a GIJoe movie: That CGI sucked. Did Stephen Sommers pocket the CG budget and let someone do it on their new iMac for $24?

A glazed doughnut for you sir! Not all of my complaints are just about the fact this doesn't match G.I.Joe. Those things look silly! they aren't realistic (i'm waiting for someone to bring that up again...) and they look awful. Even if Hasbro and Paramount went this route they could have had some better designs. It's not all about "hating the new stuff." Even a lot of Avid prequal Sw fans admit the guy who played Anakin wasn't that great. One of my big gripes have been about the cast. The joe name on it or not, this movie has a crappy director, so far bad cgi, and a poor group of actors attached.

[Jmacq1]

Your argument doesn't hold any water because we haven't seen RAH since probably 1991 (I am not counting the neon/spring loaded era because that wasn't RAH, that was Hasbro trying to meet the popularity of Ninja Turtles and other wacky crap).

 

You want to say that GiJoe hasn't been popular... I say that is more because of the terrible toys that have been produced since then. (the 25th stuff is the only NEW thing that has been ANY good since the original line ended in the early 90's). PLUS a general decline in the popularity of all action figure lines.

 

Also, the themes and storylines that came out haven't been any good.. Valor vs Venom was rediculous, Spytroops were a joke, and Sigma Six was so far from anything from the 80's... You can't possibly blame the lack of GiJoe's popularity on the RAH of the 80's. The RAH of the 80's hasn't been seen since the 80's, so how can you say it has failed??

 

Gee, I dunno, maybe because it did? Just why do you think RAH went away in the first place (whether you say it ended in '91 or '94). Why do you think Hasbro felt the need to add neon colors and spring-loaded weapons? Why do you think the cartoon went off the air and the comic was cancelled? BECAUSE IT LOST POPULARITY. Or did I miss something and the G.I. Joe line never went on "hiatus" and maintained an amount of shelf-space at retailers equal to Star Wars, Transformers, or other A-List brands ever since the 80's? Does your Wal-Mart have entire quarter-aisles devoted to 25A Joes that no one else in the United States has? Do you live in a magical world where there have been G.I. Joe cartoons playing continuously since 1982? Nevermind that the argument is about more than the G.I. Joe toys...it's about the G.I. Joe franchise as a whole. Which has NOT shown the kind of "staying power" that other franchises have. If the 80's G.I. Joe were such a driving force/so incredibly popular...we would have been getting the "25A" line instead of the JvC line. Contrary to popular belief, the people that work at Hasbro and Paramount aren't complete idiots. If they think they can make more money doing something a certain way, they'll do it that way, and they have a crapload more market researchers and hard data to draw on when making those decisions than anyone on these boards. Doesn't mean they're always right, but then again, they're running a multi-billion dollar business that's still pulling in a profit in a lousy economy and we're not.

 

Star Wars came back with some (by today's standards) utterly craptastic figures and sold like wildfire. Because Star Wars is popular. Transformers has produced a multitude of crappy spinoffs and reinventions (with toys to match) but the kids eat it up...because it's popular. G.I. Joe struggles...because it's not (particularly with kids), and no amount of self-delusion on your part changes that. The 25A line was popular with the same fans that were buying JvC/Spy Troops/VvV (which I might add got MORE shelf space at retailers than the 25A line has gotten), who are a tiny segment of the kids that played with G.I. Joe in the 80's (because the vast majority of adults in the US don't buy toys for themselves).

 

Heck, take a look at the attendance of the Joe Con vs. Bot Con or (god forbid) a Star Wars celebration. You really think G.I. Joe in ANY form maintains the massive levels of popularity it had in the 80's? You're smoking something and not sharing, Clam, and that's just rude.

 

This movie could have totally been done being more true to RAH, and it would have been just as, if not more successful... as of now, it is being called a joke before it has even been released by everyone who gets a glimpse at it.

 

You are just arguing against popular opinion because that is what you like to do.

 

As opposed to arguing against reality because you refuse to accept it?

 

"Popular Opinion" doesn't change facts. G.I. Joe has not been overly successful in the last 15 years, not even with the 25A line. You asked for a reason why Hasbro/Paramount might think that a straight RAH Joe adaptation might not work, and I gave you one. You don't have to like it, but it's the most logical scenario. Sometimes the truth hurts.

[revsears]

If G.I.Joe is so dang unpopular and unsuccessful, why the heck is it still on the shelves?

[Jmacq1]

Pay attention to the word "relative" and look it up if you need to. Hasbro's tried very hard to keep G.I. Joe going in some form or another, and for the most part retailers have humored them. But it's not an A-List brand anymore, and hasn't been since the 80's. Compared to its' "peers" the only major "80's nostalgia" franchise that's been less successful is Masters of the Universe. G.I. Joe has gotten by on "life support" without major media tie-ins. Yes, that's a credit to the brand, and to the hardcore collector base that's supported it, but that still doesn't make it particularly popular in the grand scheme of things. Heck, you might want to also take into account that for about 1/3 of the last 15 years, G.I. Joe was either a retailer exclusive, or going through yet another "reinvention." In fact, the fact that Hasbro and the retailers thought that the Sigma 6 reinvention was necessary in the first place is darn near proof positive that the Joe Brand was not performing to their expectations or desires.

 

Once again, if G.I. Joe as a property were so immensely popular as some of the folks here maintain, why are there not nearly 10,000 people showing up to its' conventions like there are for Transformers? Or god forbid the 100,000+ that show up for Star Wars celebrations? Why aren't there thousands more people signed up on G.I. Joe message boards the way Transformers and Star Wars have?

 

The simple answer: G.I. Joe isn't as popular. Period. If straight-up "Real American Hero" G.I. Joe had that kind of lasting popularity, we never would have gotten even "Joe vs. Cobra." We'd have gotten "RAH Redux" about 6 years earlier than we did.

[ARROW]

Your argument doesn't hold any water because we haven't seen RAH since probably 1991 (I am not counting the neon/spring loaded era because that wasn't RAH, that was Hasbro trying to meet the popularity of Ninja Turtles and other wacky crap).

 

Whatever Hasbro calls "RAH" is whatever it is. Whatever you call it does not factor into it at all.

You are just a consumer, they are the creator of the product.

Your own notion doesn't hold water either.

 

Actually, I think alot of the arguments here don't hold any water.

 

People are saying "this isn't GIJOE"--well, WHAT, pray tell is?

 

GIJOE started out as 12" military figures.

Then they became 12" Adventurers.

Then they had a bionic guy and a superhero with the power of a bullet, and fought alien cavemen.

 

Then they became a 8 inch figure set in the future, armed with photo-weapons against more alien bad guys.

 

THEN they became the "real American heroes".

 

But it didn't stop there.

They became Night warriors, Sonic soldiers, Eco-warriors, Drug enforcement agents, dino hunters, Tiger Enforcers, Python patrollers.....Star Brigadiers, Street Fighters.

Then they became 12" figures again, and then became vague 30th anniversary reproductions of the original military guys.

Then they became Sgt Savage

Then they became GIJOE Extreme.

They they became all-new 12" figures again in the Classic Collection

Then they became accurate reproductions of the Original military and Adventure lines AGAIN, with the Timeless and Masterpiece Collections.

Then they became GIJOE 2010 and Double Duty.

They they became the GIJOE Collection, and then GIJOE Versus COBRA, then Spytroops, Built to Rule, and then Valor Versus Venom.

And then they became the 40th anniversary collection.

And then they became Sigma Six, and then the 25th Anniversary Collection.

And then they became GIJOE Combat Heroes.

Ann finally, they became GIJOE: the Rise of COBRA movie figures.

 

What part of any of those are NOT GIJOE?

 

ALL of them are what Hasbro has called GIJOE, and so they are ALL GIJOE.

There's a LOT of variation and difference amongst those interpretations--they are not any one things for very long.

It sure sounds to me like almost every element that people object to in the move is covered in the list of what GIJOE has been before, and then some.

The movie is acknowledging somethings, and ignoring other things, and its adding to the franchise at the same time. THAT is something that has been a constant with GIJOE since its inception.

 

Looking at it selectively is the choice of the consumer, of course, but Hasbro has taken GIJOE in far more varied directions that just RAH, and this movie reflects that.

Its not the 1980's anymore.

[Viper Hunter]

If G.I.Joe is so dang unpopular and unsuccessful, why the heck is it still on the shelves?

 

 

That's the question running thru my mind when I read all these opinions on why hasbro or Hollywood felt it necessary to make issue A this way, and issue B that way and totally ignore the fanbase because they don't count when talking about issues A and B?

 

All the while some of us "fans" were b!tching and complaining about issues A and B when it was just comic books and toys we didn't like the direction they were going in with it, they told us all how it was NECESSARY (back then) because of "this and that" and old fans were (once again)...not of importance.

 

Now that all that crap we didn't like proved to be a FLOP (like we all knew it would) we still can't get any credit for knowing a little something about the property we love and cherish so obsessively, and the acknowledgement that maybe (JUST MAYBE) our complaints had some merit....we only get told that G.I.Joe isn't REALLY all that popular anyway, so any lack on Hasbro's part to make it more popular (against the wishes of the b!tchy old fans) isn't relavant to that lagging popularity, even though the MOST popular line of the toys has been something done specifically for the fans....the 25th anniversary line.

 

It's like some people think to give credit to were some credit is due, might create a "monster"...so it's best to let them remain insignificant to the grand scheme of things, in how Hasbreo TRIES to make G.I.Joe "popular" again?

 

Now it's a MOVIE they're farting around with, and instead of following the formula of the 25th anniversary line (most popular of lines since the relaunch) they want to go with the experimental crap all over again, and give us a re-imagined ARAH like that of their great ideas surrounding Spy Troops, Venom vs Valor or Sigma Six?

 

Again...I don't understand the mindset, that states "let's make a G.I.Joe movie for people that have never liked G.I.JOE, the FANS can kiss our ass and what do THEY know anyway???"

 

I know..I know...cut off the heads before it turns into a "monster"?

[Superpowers1980]

I will go see it opening day...BUT I really can't imagine it being good. The trailers come off as weak and Duke looks like the typical young all star when he should be portrayed as a mature officer...overall it doesn't look good. Also those suits than enhance the Joes is a Fookin DUMB IDEA!!!! This is not power rangers, starcom or exo squad, its GI JOE. The Joes looks as terrible as the Transformers do in their movies.

[Superpowers1980]

Your argument doesn't hold any water because we haven't seen RAH since probably 1991 (I am not counting the neon/spring loaded era because that wasn't RAH, that was Hasbro trying to meet the popularity of Ninja Turtles and other wacky crap).

 

HEN they became the "real American heroes".

 

But it didn't stop there.

They became Night warriors, Sonic soldiers, Eco-warriors, Drug enforcement agents, dino hunters, Tiger Enforcers, Python patrollers.....Star Brigadiers, Street Fighters.

Then they became 12" figures again, and then became vague 30th anniversary reproductions of the original military guys.

Then they became Sgt Savage

Then they became GIJOE Extreme.

They they became all-new 12" figures again in the Classic Collection

Then they became accurate reproductions of the Original military and Adventure lines AGAIN, with the Timeless and Masterpiece Collections.

Then they became GIJOE 2010 and Double Duty.

They they became the GIJOE Collection, and then GIJOE Versus COBRA, then Spytroops, Built to Rule, and then Valor Versus Venom.

And then they became the 40th anniversary collection.

And then they became Sigma Six, and then the 25th Anniversary Collection.

And then they became GIJOE Combat Heroes.

Ann finally, they became GIJOE: the Rise of COBRA movie figures.

 

What part of any of those are NOT GIJOE?

 

 

 

GI JOE became all of that but not all of that is going to translate well into a movie and some of that was and is crap, the Valor vs Venom - Sigma Six - Savage - Extreme - and most everyting else. In order to do a proper Gi Joe movie, you have to go back to the basics and the core of what everything else is built off of, not the original line but the RAH line and its characters and work from their, leaving out the majority of junk and keeping the heart and soul of it. If you stretch a thing to far, it will never return to its original shape...this trailer shows the folly of people over producing a movie..those super suits are STUPID

[Viper Hunter]

GIJOE started out as 12" military figures.

Then they became 12" Adventurers.

 

VERY popular!

 

 

Then they had a bionic guy and a superhero with the power of a bullet, and fought alien cavemen.

 

Not so popular...died quickly and painfully.

 

 

Then they became a 8 inch figure set in the future, armed with photo-weapons against more alien bad guys.

 

Even less popular than the "not so popular" that they tried previously with it....G.I.Joe died!

 

 

THEN they became the "real American heroes".

 

AHHH...REBIRTH!!

 

VERY popular!

 

 

But it didn't stop there.

They became Night warriors, Sonic soldiers, Eco-warriors, Drug enforcement agents, dino hunters, Tiger Enforcers, Python patrollers.....Star Brigadiers, Street Fighters.

 

Not so popular! Line peaked and soon plummeted with these "concepts" brought in to perform CPR on the line.

 

 

Then they became 12" figures again, and then became vague 30th anniversary reproductions of the original military guys.

 

Semi popular, but not enough to make it last for very long. Were not of equal quality and style of the originals.

 

Then they became Sgt Savage

 

I like them, but not everyone else. R.I.P.

 

Then they became GIJOE Extreme.

 

yuck!

 

They they became all-new 12" figures again in the Classic Collection

Then they became accurate reproductions of the Original military and Adventure lines AGAIN, with the Timeless and Masterpiece Collections.

Then they became GIJOE 2010 and Double Duty.

They they became the GIJOE Collection, and then GIJOE Versus COBRA, then Spytroops, Built to Rule, and then Valor Versus Venom.

And then they became the 40th anniversary collection.

And then they became Sigma Six, and then the 25th Anniversary Collection.

And then they became GIJOE Combat Heroes.

Ann finally, they became GIJOE: the Rise of COBRA movie figures.

 

What part of any of those are NOT GIJOE?

 

ALL of them are what Hasbro has called GIJOE, and so they are ALL GIJOE.

 

True and I know what you're saying, but despite all the different phases and concepts hasbro has put "G.I.JOE" thru, the group of terrorists know as "COBRA" have a pretty well established place in the history of all that is G.I.Joe. If they're doing an "origin" flick on them, it's going to be difficult to stray too much from what they've pre-established of it, that was obviously so popular, it developed a long lasting impression and loyal following of fans over all these years.

 

After Return of the Jedi....the Star Wars fame ended for me. It was all wrapped up nice and tidy and complete after that 3rd installment. The pre-quels were sh@# and totally unnecessary in my opinion and actaully hurt the franchise and ruined my impression of the characters I loved previously by putting crap actors in, to represent those unforgettable characters from the originals.

 

The cartoon, comics and TOYS of everything ARAH, are like the 3 original SW movies, and this upcoming live action movie seems to be the pre-quel and using crap actors to portray the characters we all love so much. Darth Vadar isn't as menacing to me anymore knowing what a sniveling, snot-nosed, little whiny punk-ass b!tch, he was as a teenager. I think this G.I.Joe movie will ruin a few popular characterizations of Cobra members as well, not to mention the Joe team?

 

If they're wanting to do a movie on the rise of COBRA (from the ARAH line) then do it true to form. It's not Sgt. Savage, Extreme or Spy Troops. It's the rise of Cobra when the RAH team had to deal with them originally?

[Arvachu]

The accelerator suits is not that new of an idea. Do we remember sigma 6 people? As for the movie itself I hope it doesnt suck as much as us joe fans think its going to, heck Im looking forward to it. And remember one important thing, we might get some good toys out of the deal or at least some good accessories. I mean have you seen how much stuff movie firefly comes with? And the vehicles look all right as well. I myself cant wait for the new pitt.So lets at least all be positive till the movie and the figures come out and then when it all turns to sh*t then we can complain #US1#

[Jmacq1]

If G.I.Joe is so dang unpopular and unsuccessful, why the heck is it still on the shelves?

 

 

That's the question running thru my mind when I read all these opinions on why hasbro or Hollywood felt it necessary to make issue A this way, and issue B that way and totally ignore the fanbase because they don't count when talking about issues A and B?

 

All the while some of us "fans" were b!tching and complaining about issues A and B when it was just comic books and toys we didn't like the direction they were going in with it, they told us all how it was NECESSARY (back then) because of "this and that" and old fans were (once again)...not of importance.

 

Now that all that crap we didn't like proved to be a FLOP (like we all knew it would) we still can't get any credit for knowing a little something about the property we love and cherish so obsessively, and the acknowledgement that maybe (JUST MAYBE) our complaints had some merit....we only get told that G.I.Joe isn't REALLY all that popular anyway, so any lack on Hasbro's part to make it more popular (against the wishes of the b!tchy old fans) isn't relavant to that lagging popularity, even though the MOST popular line of the toys has been something done specifically for the fans....the 25th anniversary line.

 

It's like some people think to give credit to were some credit is due, might create a "monster"...so it's best to let them remain insignificant to the grand scheme of things, in how Hasbreo TRIES to make G.I.Joe "popular" again?

 

Now it's a MOVIE they're farting around with, and instead of following the formula of the 25th anniversary line (most popular of lines since the relaunch) they want to go with the experimental crap all over again, and give us a re-imagined ARAH like that of their great ideas surrounding Spy Troops, Venom vs Valor or Sigma Six?

 

Again...I don't understand the mindset, that states "let's make a G.I.Joe movie for people that have never liked G.I.JOE, the FANS can kiss our ass and what do THEY know anyway???"

 

I know..I know...cut off the heads before it turns into a "monster"?

 

 

Do you have any hard numbers to back up that the 25th Anniversary line is actually the "most popular?" "Most well-received by entrenched fans" and "most popular" aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

The line had more shelf space made available to it when it was JvC/Spy Troops/VvV and even Sigma 6. That implies greater volume of product being sold (overall), which implies greater popularity with the overall populace.

 

Indeed, in terms of overall volume of product sold I would be willing to bet money that the most successful "relaunch" of G.I. Joe is in fact the collective JvC/Spy Troops/VvV era of product. "Nu-Sculpt" or whatever they call it now.

[Viper Hunter]

Do you have any hard numbers to back up that the 25th Anniversary line is actually the "most popular?" "Most well-received by entrenched fans" and "most popular" aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

The line had more shelf space made available to it when it was JvC/Spy Troops/VvV and even Sigma 6. That implies greater volume of product being sold (overall), which implies greater popularity with the overall populace.

 

Indeed, in terms of overall volume of product sold I would be willing to bet money that the most successful "relaunch" of G.I. Joe is in fact the collective JvC/Spy Troops/VvV era of product. "Nu-Sculpt" or whatever they call it now.

 

 

Well...I'm probably going to get bit once again for listening to the opinions of the "experts" here at TNI, as far as just how popular the 25th line has been, because I haven't been all that impressed with it, and when I've posted by complaints about some of it, the "experts" have been quick to remind me of how "popular" it is, and how my opinions on it are in the minority and I suck!

 

It's hard to know WHO to trust and WHO knows what they're talking about sometimes, but it seems I'm never right no matter which side of the deabte I fall on, and if I jump the fence, I can STILL be wrong.

 

Are you claiming to have hard numbers that would show the 25th line isn't as popular (or all that well recieved) with the fans? How about in terms of most profitable for Hasbro? Any numbers on the profits the line brought in for Hasbro? I know they were in the news as some of the FEW major companies that even turned a profit last year, so could any of that be due to the popularity of the 25th line?

[Viper Hunter]

I myself cant wait for the new pitt.So lets at least all be positive till the movie and the figures come out and then when it all turns to sh*t then we can complain #US1#

 

There's a reason for why they release previews of all this stuff though...right? Get a reaction out of people?

 

What good does it do anyone to be mum on the stuff until it actually comes out? Puts the whole concept of discussion at a disadvantage for those that stand to gain from our ongoing a active discussions, and opinions on all this stuff from the cradle to the grave, plus...

 

it's interesting!

 

 

Too many folks keep trying to tell others what to do and how to think, and it's getting a little tiresome.

[Jmacq1]

Do you have any hard numbers to back up that the 25th Anniversary line is actually the "most popular?" "Most well-received by entrenched fans" and "most popular" aren't necessarily the same thing.

 

The line had more shelf space made available to it when it was JvC/Spy Troops/VvV and even Sigma 6. That implies greater volume of product being sold (overall), which implies greater popularity with the overall populace.

 

Indeed, in terms of overall volume of product sold I would be willing to bet money that the most successful "relaunch" of G.I. Joe is in fact the collective JvC/Spy Troops/VvV era of product. "Nu-Sculpt" or whatever they call it now.

 

 

Well...I'm probably going to get bit once again for listening to the opinions of the "experts" here at TNI, as far as just how popular the 25th line has been, because I haven't been all that impressed with it, and when I've posted by complaints about some of it, the "experts" have been quick to remind me of how "popular" it is, and how my opinions on it are in the minority and I suck!

 

It's hard to know WHO to trust and WHO knows what they're talking about sometimes, but it seems I'm never right no matter which side of the deabte I fall on, and if I jump the fence, I can STILL be wrong.

 

Are you claiming to have hard numbers that would show the 25th line isn't as popular (or all that well recieved) with the fans? How about in terms of most profitable for Hasbro? Any numbers on the profits the line brought in for Hasbro? I know they were in the news as some of the FEW major companies that even turned a profit last year, so could any of that be due to the popularity of the 25th line?

 

 

I don't know for sure, myself. I do know that 25A Joe doesn't have much shelf-space, and I know that shelf-space (over the long term) is the best indicator of the overall health of a line. If Wal-Mart's willing to devote a quarter-aisle to your stuff even when there's not a movie (Star Wars or Transformers) then you can be certain that stuff sells well.

 

I don't doubt that the 25A Joes have performed above Hasbro's expectations. But the 25A line was initially only going to be two 5-packs and that was it, which should give us an idea of Hasbro's expectations. It got a mention as performing well in a recent shareholder meeting/report, but most of the attention was still on Star Wars (particularly the Clone Wars segment) and Transformers.

 

Basically, Joe might sell-through well (though we definitely have our own share of pegwarming stuff), but when only about 1/4 as much product is being produced and making it to shelves as some other lines, it's kind of impossible for it to be a "top earner" in terms of overall dollars. Maybe in terms of percentages, but not dollars.

[Viper Hunter]

I know the movie TOYS are going to get more of my money than the movie will. Of course, the movie we might only see once at the theater (for 7 bucks or so) and then maybe a one time DVD purchase for another $15...and that combined is only 3 action figures or one small vehicle.

 

If I'm persnickity and crabby on the movies potential and enough so to totally ignore it....the dollar amount that Hollywood (or hasbro) will be out is definitely minimal to what they can get out of me with the toys, and I'm all over those babies. Some are sorta silly and funky, but heck...that's just plain ol' G.I.JOE toys period, since it's 3 3/4" invention.

[pesatyel]

I don't think some people quite understand the concept.

 

People that "dislike" or "this isn't G.I. Joe" the movie aren't arguing that filmmakers can't use creative license or make alterations to the "story". That goes with the territory and is usually necessary.

 

But just how far and how many changes ARE necessary is what is debatable. The people that are having trouble with it believe the changes are a few too many.

 

Basically speaking, if you have to make so many changes from the source material that the new art form, be it comic, movie or whatever, version is NOT the same as the original....why are you bothering then?

 

RevSears has a good point. What is it about the basic idea that was soo good as to make a movie, but apparently NOT good enough to keep it (relatively) intact?

 

Everything I said above applies to ALL "movie" versions of whatever original source. The question you have to ask is WHY are they changing what they are changing?

 

Take, for example, The Tick. The original comic, the Tick was an ESCAPED MENTAL PATIENT. When they did the cartoon, they changed his background, but it still worked (for some people better than the original).

 

Another example is V is for Vendetta. Alan Moore was PISSED about the movie complaining that they completely screwed up his original story. And they did. Except for characters the movie wasn't like the original story ("the government did it" is SO cliche).

 

The most often cited argument is they want to "update" it for the current generation. That's fine and cool. I've ALWAYS thought it was stupid that Spiderman had to invent those stupid webshooters to be Spiderman (though Scarlet Spider was pretty cool with them) but in the last few "updated" versions (Ultimate and the movies) the webbing was an additional power and not a mechanical device. So that makes sense as an update.

 

But whose to say that the "original" version WON'T appeal to the current generation? This argument was used in another thread:

 

You have 3 types of fans.

1) Those that know EVERYTHING about the given subject

2) Those with a passing familiarity. They've heard of it and maybe have seen one or two episodes (of the subject's show) or read some of the subject's book/comic.

3) Those that have no familiarty. AT most they've "heard of it".

 

So, for whom are these changes being made? And why is it necesary to make such significant changes?

 

Is group 3 going to care? They aren't even familiar with it so why would they care if Cobra Commander wears a silver mask as opposed to having his face dipped into a deep fat fryer?

 

Group 2 might care. They have some familiarty They might see the original looks as cliche or out of date.

 

Group 1 might care. There have been SO many versions of various characters that it would be difficult to say which would be best to represent the character in a live action movie so, what if a compltely NEW version is used instead?

[ARROW]

But just how far and how many changes ARE necessary is what is debatable. The people that are having trouble with it believe the changes are a few too many.

 

The only counterpoint to this is that GIJOE is just nebulous enough that there is no truly definitive version to adapt.

The comics depict one thing, the cartoons another, and the toys convey still another. Which one takes precedence?

The comic had giant walking machines attacking Cape Canaveral. The cartoons had animals the world over controlled by some gadget, so that they attacked people. The toys had GIJOE is space, fighting aliens, and hunting dinosaurs. Its had androids and mutated warriors, and guys emulating hawks and crocodiles.

That's as wild as it got, and when it got mundane it was the same as any other military gadget fantasy.

That's been done before--Megaforce.

GIJOE has been about the tech just beyond the leading edge. Exo-suits are just that sort of thing.

They make far more interesting tech to showcase than a jeep with a machine gun mounted on the rear ( Vamp).

Like it or not, the movie needs SOMETHING to give it a hook, to make it come across as different, and GIJOE has long played a bit more superheroic, than it has straight military.

 

I've watched the Paris footage a few times now, and honestly........I like the sequence. Its fun, its dynamic, and just a touch larger than life. THAT is what I personally expect from a movie called GIJOE.

Obviously those expectations are different for other people.

[pesatyel]

But just how far and how many changes ARE necessary is what is debatable. The people that are having trouble with it believe the changes are a few too many.

 

The only counterpoint to this is that GIJOE is just nebulous enough that there is no truly definitive version to adapt.

The comics depict one thing, the cartoons another, and the toys convey still another. Which one takes precedence?

The comic had giant walking machines attacking Cape Canaveral. The cartoons had animals the world over controlled by some gadget, so that they attacked people. The toys had GIJOE is space, fighting aliens, and hunting dinosaurs. Its had androids and mutated warriors, and guys emulating hawks and crocodiles.

That's as wild as it got, and when it got mundane it was the same as any other military gadget fantasy.

That's been done before--Megaforce.

GIJOE has been about the tech just beyond the leading edge. Exo-suits are just that sort of thing.

They make far more interesting tech to showcase than a jeep with a machine gun mounted on the rear ( Vamp).

Like it or not, the movie needs SOMETHING to give it a hook, to make it come across as different, and GIJOE has long played a bit more superheroic, than it has straight military.

 

I've watched the Paris footage a few times now, and honestly........I like the sequence. Its fun, its dynamic, and just a touch larger than life. THAT is what I personally expect from a movie called GIJOE.

Obviously those expectations are different for other people.

 

True.

 

The problem I have with the suits is that its a kind of cheat or crutch. One of the things that worked for G.I. Joe, whether it was considered cheesy or ludicrous was the idea of a handful of "the best of the best" in the American military going up against the "faceless legions" of Cobra. That's where the idea of army building came from, right?

 

But with these suits it just seems to "dumb down" that idea. The Joes aren't as "bad ass" cause, hey, they are bullet proof, can run faster than a speeding bullet and leap over tall buildings in a single bound. Ok I'm being sarcastic, but when they did "armored suits" in the comic, Cobra Commander was the only one to get one because of how expensive they are.

[RobbieDigital]

All I know is I'm more excited for GI Joe Monopoly than I am for this movie. #US1#

 

 

 

 

The cool RAH related merchandise has me more excited than anything I've seen from this film...........also no Baroness accent........FAIL.

[ARROW]

The problem I have with the suits is that its a kind of cheat or crutch. One of the things that worked for G.I. Joe, whether it was considered cheesy or ludicrous was the idea of a handful of "the best of the best" in the American military going up against the "faceless legions" of Cobra. That's where the idea of army building came from, right?

 

But with these suits it just seems to "dumb down" that idea. The Joes aren't as "bad ass" cause, hey, they are bullet proof, can run faster than a speeding bullet and leap over tall buildings in a single bound. Ok I'm being sarcastic, but when they did "armored suits" in the comic, Cobra Commander was the only one to get one because of how expensive they are.

 

Nope.

 

Star Brigade had such suits. GIJOE had defense mechs, and a super trooper. COBRA has S.N.A.K.E. armor.

The precedents are there, only thing NOT shown clearly is the depiction of those things in action--which was left to the imaginations of the person playing with the toys.

Are they clunky, lumbering and slow, or does the tech enable them to move fast? Its never been established.

Heck, GIJOE soldiers can fly, via jet packs--so why is a accelerator suit such a stretch for people?

The "best of the Best" argument still fits with the movie. These guys ARE the best of the best.

They are chosen for not only physical ability, but judgment and smarts.

Sounds sensible to me to trust expensive gear like these suits to soldiers that really know what they are doing, and to kit them with something that gives them an advantage.

Otherwise, its a classic case of the Joes bring a "knife to a gunfight", whereby there's nothing heroic about that, and everything stupid about it.

Audiences today simply will not buy the heroes solving problems solely with their fists, especially when the enemy employs so much technology.

 

The suits are just ONE of the kinds of gear the team uses, and they are clearly something that they are testing out. I doubt the suits will be seen in a sequel ( mostly because if its done this time, there's no point doing it again next time).

[pesatyel]

Audiences today simply will not buy the heroes solving problems solely with their fists, especially when the enemy employs so much technology.

 

Why not?

 

It is more than common in action movies to have a single (usually) or small handful, at most, group of good guys go up against lots of bad guys.

 

Why should this one necessarily be different?

 

How many action movies had the good guys wearing power armored suits? Especially still set only in a "near future" setting. And, no, Iron Man doesn't count. Or Robo-Cop (but then that wasn't "near future" anyway).

 

Besides, who said anything about "only with their fists". You yourself said they were chosen as "best of the best" not just physically, but mentally too.

 

I'll give you an odd example. Ever read The Zombie Survival Guide? There is a section about wearing armor when dealing with zombies. Simply put you shouldn't bother becuase one of the biggest dangers is the "sense of invulnerability" the idea that because your encased in armor, you can act with impunity and not have to worry about zombies getting you. Your more willing to put yourself into dangerous situations because you are believing you are protect.

 

Now I know the Joes aren't going up against zombies in the movie (that's in my fanfic lol), but the basic idea, that sense of "invulnerability" is the danger, causing people to act with less regard to safety then they otherwise would.

 

Did I explain that right?

[ARROW]

Besides, who said anything about "only with their fists". You yourself said they were chosen as "best of the best" not just physically, but mentally too.

 

I'll give you an odd example. Ever read The Zombie Survival Guide? There is a section about wearing armor when dealing with zombies. Simply put you shouldn't bother becuase one of the biggest dangers is the "sense of invulnerability" the idea that because your encased in armor, you can act with impunity and not have to worry about zombies getting you. Your more willing to put yourself into dangerous situations because you are believing you are protect.

 

Now I know the Joes aren't going up against zombies in the movie (that's in my fanfic lol), but the basic idea, that sense of "invulnerability" is the danger, causing people to act with less regard to safety then they otherwise would.

 

Did I explain that right?

 

Well, real-life soldiers have that now, with body armor, something that the fictional soldiers in the movie are also seen wearing. If they don't use the tech, then the only thing they have going for them is using their rifles or going all "American Ninja" or "Gymkata" on COBRA's ass. Those kinds of things have become cliche' pretty much.

GIJOE is established as being elite because of all the extra-high tech gear they have. Otherwise, they'd be just ordinary soldiers.

 

See the genus of GIJOE lays in all sorts of movies, comics and TV shows that have come before it, and while it was growing to this point.

Almost everything the GIJOE has shown us in any form to date, has been seen before. The underwater set pieces hearken to James Bond, the super suit stuff to things like Iron Man, Snake-eyes and Stormshadow to any of dozens of martial arts movies. About the only thing that can be done is to show things on a scale not seen before.

 

I've put this question out before: " Just how.....specifically.......do you so a GIJOE movie, so it stands apart, and so it is taken "seriously" ( albiet in a fun appealing way) by an audience.....and NOT make a joke out of it"?

GIJOE is NOT Blackhawk Down. Its NOT Saving Private Ryan. Its not R-rated, and its not a comedy.

It can VERY easily be campy--which might not be a necessarily bad route to go.

It IS colourful characters with high-tech gear, in fantastic situations against a equally fantastic foe.

 

Well, from what I have seen the movie is exactly that.

[CLAM]

best.

Otherwise, its a classic case of the Joes bring a "knife to a gunfight", whereby there's nothing heroic about that, and everything stupid about it.

Audiences today simply will not buy the heroes solving problems solely with their fists, especially when the enemy employs so much technology.

 

 

they won't?

 

I don't think I have ever seen James Bond wear an Accelerator suit.. and there has always been plenty of tech used in those movies.

In fact, other than Ironman and Robocop, I can't recall a hero using a cybernetic armor suit thingy...

 

the suits just aint joe at all.

 

There is plenty of room for futuristic technology without trying to make that what the joes are.

[pesatyel]

Besides, who said anything about "only with their fists". You yourself said they were chosen as "best of the best" not just physically, but mentally too.

 

I'll give you an odd example. Ever read The Zombie Survival Guide? There is a section about wearing armor when dealing with zombies. Simply put you shouldn't bother becuase one of the biggest dangers is the "sense of invulnerability" the idea that because your encased in armor, you can act with impunity and not have to worry about zombies getting you. Your more willing to put yourself into dangerous situations because you are believing you are protect.

 

Now I know the Joes aren't going up against zombies in the movie (that's in my fanfic lol), but the basic idea, that sense of "invulnerability" is the danger, causing people to act with less regard to safety then they otherwise would.

 

Did I explain that right?

 

Well, real-life soldiers have that now, with body armor, something that the fictional soldiers in the movie are also seen wearing. If they don't use the tech, then the only thing they have going for them is using their rifles or going all "American Ninja" or "Gymkata" on COBRA's ass. Those kinds of things have become cliche' pretty much.

GIJOE is established as being elite because of all the extra-high tech gear they have. Otherwise, they'd be just ordinary soldiers.

 

See the genus of GIJOE lays in all sorts of movies, comics and TV shows that have come before it, and while it was growing to this point.

Almost everything the GIJOE has shown us in any form to date, has been seen before. The underwater set pieces hearken to James Bond, the super suit stuff to things like Iron Man, Snake-eyes and Stormshadow to any of dozens of martial arts movies. About the only thing that can be done is to show things on a scale not seen before.

 

I've put this question out before: " Just how.....specifically.......do you so a GIJOE movie, so it stands apart, and so it is taken "seriously" ( albiet in a fun appealing way) by an audience.....and NOT make a joke out of it"?

GIJOE is NOT Blackhawk Down. Its NOT Saving Private Ryan. Its not R-rated, and its not a comedy.

It can VERY easily be campy--which might not be a necessarily bad route to go.

It IS colourful characters with high-tech gear, in fantastic situations against a equally fantastic foe.

 

Well, from what I have seen the movie is exactly that.

 

I figured you'd bring up the fact that modern soldiers wear body armor. The difference, of course, being that the armor soldiers wear today doesn't increase their physical strength and speed and is NOT actually bullet proof like I'm sure the Accelerator Suits are (hey, what do I know I haven't seen the movie yet, I'm just speculating to be sure but it is not beyond that realm).

 

No G.I. joe is NOT Black Hawk Down and Saving Private Ryan. However, it is NOT Iron Man either. Your being a little short sided in that regard.

 

Did they wear Accelerator Suits in Resolute? Resolute was a VERY good "updated" version of G.I. Joe. It had most of the classic elements from the older versions.

 

*Various locals to give a few characters some "use". Granted not as well since they didn't take any arctic troopers to assault the Siberian base (for example).

*A MacGuffin.

*Joes kicking ass in a few lopsided battles. Because they are badasses.

*Engunity in thinking to deal with Cobra's threat.

*A good showing of characters, even if most were background only.

*Recongizable (for the most part) characters.

 

Know what the DIDN'T have? Accelerator Suits.

 

So, what if, for sake of argument, they had done Resolute as live action?