Star Trek: Nemesis=Underrated?

[Ekim15]

Nemesis was the absolute worst Next Gen movie

[Wheeljack35]

Nemesis was the absolute worst Next Gen movie

 

 

And Insurrection was any better?

[JayC]

Some of you guys keep mentioning Worf suddenly reappearing inexplicably on the Enterprise in Nemesis; wasn't he on-board in Insurrection as well?

 

Worf was still a Starfleet officer in that one and even then they took a sec to give an explanation as to why he was there. He was there for a confrence and Picard asked him to stay on board for the duration of the mission to get Data.

[JayC]

Nemesis was the absolute worst Next Gen movie

 

 

And Insurrection was any better?

 

Not sure if better is the right word but had less plot holes.

[Wheeljack35]

Insurrection was nothing but a two hour tv episode put on the big screen

 

There is so much more they could of come up with but didn't

[hoganvibe]

I just had a thought... wasn't Worf there for the Riker/Troi wedding? Isn't that his reason for being on the Enterprise during Nemesis?

[hamsterboy]

I'll give Nemesis another plus over Insurrection,no one in Nemesis is talking about their nipples.

[amazingdm]

The biggest problem is that the director didn't know anything about Star Trek. Sure they got some fancy screenwriter with some fancy credits to his name that claimed to be a fan, but in the end I think it did more harm than good.

 

Statements like that make me worry about the new movie! But I'll be in line to see it anyway.

 

Wow, JayC and amazingdm put Nemesis below ST5. I'm going to have to watch the TOS movies to decide for myself.

 

On a side note, I just read that in the movie "Spaced" (starring Simon Pegg) it is noted that the odd number Star Trek movies are $#!+, and that's a fact of life. This is done by none less that Pegg's character. If true, the good movies are:

 

Wrath of Khan

The Voyage Home

The Undiscovered Country

First Contact

Nemesis

 

With the movies resembling feces being:

 

The Motion Picture

The Search for Spock

The Final Frontier

Generations

Insurrection

 

... and last, but more interesting...

 

STAR TREK (2009)

 

 

I wonder if there will be a sequel to "Spaced" where Pegg's character will change his mind.

 

 

As flawed as ST5 was, it was pretty dang enjoyable. I mean you really have to realize it ISN'T real life so it doesn't matter if they made huge errors like where the center of the galaxy was. It had a cast I loved and great character interaction. I mean William Shatner loves Star Trek and these characters. There was some fun to it and it was interesting having a ST2-3-4 type ST movie that's set by itself. It had some good messages in it. When he really tries I think William Shatner is a good actor. "I need my pain"

So many times on the internet people are weak minded and let popular opinion affect their own. A lot of people thought X-men 3 sucked and was the worst of the 3 and I'm like WHAT??? Have they seen 1! 2 was barely watchable too. 3 FELT like a comic movie. Same with ST5 "Oh it's the worst! "oh I guess it must be the worst then"

ST5 also had a TOS era feel to it.

[amazingdm]

nemesis was just bad. It was worse than fanfiction because it wasn't even MADE by fans.

 

tom hardy.. oh good what burrito lips he has compared to picard..

 

 

 

anyway the new Star Trek prequel comic was just awful. They should have told the same story, but with a different writer. It was filled with so many cliche Star Trek lines and moments (what they probably consider throwbacks to please fans but just turn out to be cliches. That's why Voyager was so bad.. too many of those). It felt like a fanfic writer.

[yojoebro82]

I explain Worf being there like this:

 

He IS still a Klingon ambasador but just chose to wear his Starfleet uniform because he was at the wedding (which was KIND OF a Star Fleet function). If I remember correctly, the ship was on its way to Betazed for the SECOND part of the wedding when the action began so Worf just taged along. That's the best I can do.

[Jmacq1]

I actually liked Nemesis all right. It had some horrible portions, sure, but it also had some pretty cool concepts and one of the best space battles seen in a Trek film yet.

 

I enjoyed it more than Insurrection (about the only part I liked of that was the "Riker Maneuver"), Generations, "The Motion Picture" and Final Frontier.

[JayC]

but it also had some pretty cool concepts and one of the best space battles seen in a Trek film yet.

 

No way. WOK battle scenes were much better than Nemesis. The whole lets ram the ship in Nemesis was pretty lame.

[Jmacq1]

but it also had some pretty cool concepts and one of the best space battles seen in a Trek film yet.

 

No way. WOK battle scenes were much better than Nemesis. The whole lets ram the ship in Nemesis was pretty lame.

 

I didn't say it was "the" best. I said "one of" the best. Beyond that, you're entitled to your opinion.

[JayC]

but it also had some pretty cool concepts and one of the best space battles seen in a Trek film yet.

 

No way. WOK battle scenes were much better than Nemesis. The whole lets ram the ship in Nemesis was pretty lame.

 

I didn't say it was "the" best. I said "one of" the best. Beyond that, you're entitled to your opinion.

 

LOL, thanks for letting me know I'm entitled to my opinion. I think it goes without saying we are all entitled to our own opnions and that we're just having a fun trek debate here so you don't need to take it personal if I or someone else disagrees with you. I won't take it personal if you disagree with me as I hope you don't that I might disagree with you.

 

As for Nemesis, the first scenes like when they are preparing for battel and the opening salvos are cool but it kind goes down hill from there. For Trek movie space battles i'd rate em

 

Star Trek II

Star Trek III

Star Trek VI

Star Trek Generations

Star Trek Nemesis

Star Trek Insurection

Star Trek V

 

If it wasn't for the lame joystick ploy in Insurection I might have put it above Nemesis. Not sure yet were I would rank the new movie prob. I will need to see it a few more times before I can decide.

[Wheeljack35]

Hell I have bee watch Wrath of Khan over and over on cable this past weekend I will never get bored of the battle between the Reliant and the Enterprise

[DonkeyKong]

For Wrath of Khan's battles, you'll never top the music cue that plays everytime they show the Reliant.

 

O.k, since everyone else is, here is my list of all Star Trek movies in order of my favorites:

 

1 - Wrath of Khan = They freaking knocked this one out of the park. It will always remain #1

 

2- First Contact = Yay, the Borg are actually a threat! (too bad Voyager will ruin this...)

 

3- The Voyage Home = Just a plain fun movie.

 

4- The Final Frontier = Love the interaction between Kirk, Spock and Bones. Sybok was a great ... well not so much a villain.. but antagonist all the same. This movie is Star Trek through and through. Plus Scotty knocking himself out by walking into a pipe after saying "I know this ship like the back of my head" is hilarious. Lots of funny moments in this one over all actually.

 

5- The Undiscovered Country = I love the Klingon bad-guy in this one, and the scene where the torpedeo goes clear through the Enterprise's saucer section is way cool.

 

6-Insurection = Funny, action packed, crappy villains and a Data as a floatation device...this one's a mixed bag...but still enjoyable.

 

7- Search for Spock = Drags on in places. But overall enjoyable. Kirk's reaction to his son's death and Bone's line after the Enterprise is destroyed are the highlights of this one. Plus Mc Coy with Spock's soul is a comedy gold mine.

 

8- Generations = Stupid concept and seemed cheaply made. Data's line when the Enterprise is about to crash is great though. (ohhh sh*t)

 

9- Nemesis = A big 'ol mess

 

10- The Motion Picture = Zzzzz.... please...no more scenes of flying through the damn space cloud!

[Wheeljack35]

Ok since you all want to makes lists here is mine

 

 

1 The Wrath of Khan

2 The Search For Spock

3 The Voyage Home

4 First Contact

5 Generations

6 The Undiscovered Country

7 Nemesis

8 The Final Fronteir

9 Insurrection

10 TMP

[Geof7609]

01. The Undiscovered Country - I still think this had the most going for it in terms of story, characters and tone, like there was more at stake this time around than in any other movie. I also felt it was a perfect send-off for the original cast. And Spock gets pissed.

 

02. The Wrath Of Khan - The only reason this isn't my #1 pick is that, at it's heart, it's a very basic story of revenge. But it's done exceedingly well & Ricardo Montalban just can't do wrong. I think the Mutara Nebula "hunt/chase" scene could stand some better editing, but that's really the only flaw.

 

03. First Contact - Just a big home run for the Next Generation crew. So many things right about this movie & things never got too silly like in the other TNG movies. Worf tying off his leaking pant leg with a Borg arm = Ultimate Win.

 

04. The Voyage Home - Did I just say "too silly"? It's got a ludicrous concept, and characters are often subjected to less-than-dignified situations for the sake of a joke, but DAMN IT'S ALL SO MUCH FUN.

 

05. The Search For Spock - This one's lower cos I thought all the best stuff was in the 1st half of the movie before they reach the Genesis Planet. I cheered when David bought it, he annoyed me in both movies. I remember being genuinely stunned when the Enterprise blew up & being genuinely underwhelmed with Christopher Lloyd.

 

06. The Final Frontier - Recently rewatched this & the real charm of the movie is the Kirk/Spock/McCoy "family" aspect. Everyone else gets screwed over for cheap laughs, especially Scotty. Sybok was a weak antagonist, Klaa was just pathetically unnecessary.

 

07. Generations - This could've been a pretty good TNG movie if they hadn't insisted on a wholly unnecessary baton-passing. By the time this movie came out, TNG was firmly cemented as THE Star Trek cast of the period & Kirk's inclusion only led to a limp death scene. Well, at least we got a spiffy new Enterprise in the next movie.

 

08. The Motion(less) Picture - 'Nuff said.

 

09. Nemesis - Already commented about this earlier in the thread.

 

10. Insurrection - Saw this opening night in the theater & absolutely nothing about it gave me reason to revisit it ever again.

[synch]

The only one TNG wise I've ever really liked was I think "generations" with kirk & picard how can you not like that ? (don't answer that I'm just saying )

 

Nemesis & insurrection were "ok" but lacking... they all have some neat aspects & things that I like about them but yeah they just seem "lacking" for some reason... Funny I was just having this very same conversation with some friends after seeing wolvie

[JayC]

The only one TNG wise I've ever really liked was I think "generations" with kirk & picard how can you not like that ? (don't answer that I'm just saying )

 

Nemesis & insurrection were "ok" but lacking... they all have some neat aspects & things that I like about them but yeah they just seem "lacking" for some reason... Funny I was just having this very same conversation with some friends after seeing wolvie

 

You don't like First Contact?

[I AM SCI-FI]

I loved "Nemesis". I don’t know what people saw that didn’t allow the movie to reach it’s full potential for them. True, there were no brand new ground breaking special effects, but the story line and plot made up for it. If you go to see a Star Trek movie just to see the special effects then you are missing the point of the Star Trek legacy. I have heard some ppl complaining that Nemesis was basically a remake of "Undiscovered Country". Just a change of characters, aliens, and location. I, however, don’t see it that way. The majority of the story centered around Picard and Shinzon.

This was an awesome play on Picards emotions and feelings. I haven’t seen this much emotion from Picard in a long time. You could see the hope in his eyes that maybe there could be a connection between him and Shinzon. Picard could see Shinzon as the son that he never had. Shinzon could have been the person to fill the void that was created in his heart with the passing of his nephew. Shinzon could be a living legacy that Jean-Luc could leave behind, and what a legacy that would have been if they could have worked out an alliance with the Federation the the Romulan Empire. Picard talked about being there with Shinzon, in time, holding hands in peace. Alas, this was not to be. Picard only got to see the worst of himself through Shinzon. He saw himself how he might have turned out if the events in his life had played out differently. He saw himself being capable of becoming someone that he despises. This is something that we all fear. I related so well with this plot device. No matter who you are you always find out that you are your own worse enemy, in the end. I have had many a dream about me being my own worse enemy. In a way, when Shinzon died, a part of Jean-Luc died as well. In a way, Picard died at his own hands. This will always haunt Jean-Luc, I feel. Especially standing right there, eye to eye, watching the life leave Shinzons body.

We saw the passing of Data. This had more impact on me than the passing of Kirk. Everybody keeps looking at B-4 as the possibility that Data will be resurrected through him. I do not see it taking that route. Even Data himself, when talking to Jean-Luc about Shinzon, said that he and B-4 can never be the same person, as Shinzon and Picard can never be the exact same person. Yes, I think that some of Data’s memories will pop up in B-4’s head, from the download of information from Datas’ brain, but Data’s personality will never over-ride that of B-4’s. If it did then they would be remaking the Search for Spock and the Genesis Project.

Troi got to show her stuff. I think they took liberties with the power that Deanna possesses, but she got to kick the Viceroys’ bu...brain. "Remember me?" Good line. I cheered inside. I’ve only seen the limits of her powers to the point where she only senses the presence of others and what they were feeling, but not knowing exactly why they feel that way.

They threw Riker a bone. No. 1 vs. Shinzons’ No. 1, the Viceroy. They could have tried to liven the fight between them a little better, but that is the worst that I can think of about this movie. That, and I didn’t see Lt. Barclay. Where was he? Was he there and I missed him?

Though Geordi did not give the eulogy for his best friend Data, his face said volumes. If you notice when they were handing out the glasses of wine you could see Geordi trying to hide his remorse by smiling at Beverly. After Picard toasted to absent friends and they drank you saw Riker look at Geordi. Riker could see how overwhelmed Geordi was with remorse and grief that Riker took on himself to bring up a funny moment of Datas to lighten the mood. This was a very subtle point that most ppl looked over.

Though he wasn't ever one of my favorite characters, I was glad to see Wesley, who I thought was completely dropped from the film. True, he didn’t have any lines, but he was still there at the wedding completeing the circle.

Speaking of wedding. I want to see the wedding that took place on Betazed. Troi and Beverly naked, who wouldn’t want to see that?

There was something else that I wanted to say about the relation between Picard and Shinzon, but I can’t think of it now. Oh well, I’ll get back to you on that.

Not a perfect film, but which one is? Yet, it left me cleaving to the vision of hope, peace and development of potential, of striving to become more than we are in the face of formidable opposition. This was what Star Trek was always about... The human adventure.

I do think that it would be cool if Shinzon had survived, or it would be cool if Shinzon wasn’t the only clone. What if there was another clone that was onboard a Romulan ship that was assimilated by the Borg? A new, younger Locutus of Borg. Now that would kick major butt.

 

My rating of the movies

10. Star Trek Insurrection

09. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

08. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

07. Star Trek Generations

06. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock

05. Star Trek: The Motion Picture

04. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

03. Star Trek: Nemesis

02. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

01. Star Trek: First Contact

 

The more I see and hear of the new movie the more I think it will live up to the Star Trek experience.

[Devilbat]

Exactly SCI-FI, well put my friend. I think that's what I love so much about this film; the subtleties, the drama and set-up of it is what does it for me.

 

And I just finished watching it, and I enjoyed it much more the second time. It's just as good if not better than I remember...

 

And JayC, I remember you implied that the scene where Picard rams the Scimitar with the Enterprise was a bad idea. Why? Personally I thought it was awesome. My jaw dropped when I saw that scene. The Enterprise was out-gunned and out-maneuvered; there was nothing else left to do. Also, I think Picard was showing his defiance as well as doing something unexpected that Shinzon would never have anticipated. Even Patrick Stewart himself in the extras disk said that it was a moment of desperation, that there was no other option at that point short of giving up and surrendering. It was almost a no-win situation. I thought it was great because it was completely unexpected. And I think the space battle overall was the best I've seen, at least in the "Next Generation" films. It was definitely the most dynamic I thought. And yeah, I know the whole "cloaked ship" thing had been done to death, but it seemd like it was done right this time. I liked how the Enterprise just unloaded in all directions to try and hit the cloaked Scimitar, which it did a few times.

 

I just think it's great. The premise was great, and the look of the film is spectacular; it just has this great, slick, sophisticated look that I think a Star Trek film should have. Also you get a real sense of drama and urgency. Even in First Contact, which for now at least is my favorite "Next Generation" film, I never got a real sense of danger for any of the characters. In this one I felt like they were walking a fine line between life and death. I had experienced that in some of the "classic crew" films, but not the "Generation" ones. This one just had a heavier feel it seems...

 

I know everyone has their own opinion, and they're definitely entitled to it. And I know each of us have our own expectations as to what we want to see in a Star Trek film. But I am truly flabberghasted as to why this particular film is so derided by some fans, especially since I've seen it for a second time. To each his own though; right?

 

I will admit there are still two things that I'm not too sure about; the Federation "Dune Buggy". Seriously? A dune-buggy in the Twenty-fourth Century? (lol) Also, Picard pulled the old "destruct sequence" card. I felt like that had become somewhat of a way-overdone, empty threat as it were in the "Next Generation" films. The Search for Spock had played that scenario out the best, and I couldn't imagine another secnario where it would have the same dramatic impact.

[JayC]

I don't know I just didnt see a strong story at all and to many corny things. The ship ramming seemed unrealistic just like Data jumping from ship to ship and just happend to land in a place where there was a hatch he could open to board the Romulan ship, or the Transporter having just enough power after ramming another ship to beam Picard but no one else or flying a shuttle craft in the interior of the Romulan ship or like I said before the whole idea this band of slaves and a human clone could have somehow built this super ship that was more powerfull than anything we have seen from any Alpha quadrant race before or somehow finding a never before seen Data model and then knowing how to put it together and re-program it, or the Dune Buggy, or how about the scanners being able to sudenly detect a data body on some unknow planet while they happen to be flying through the sector. I've certainly seen worse movies overall but for Trek this one is one of the weaker ones IMO. But if you think otherwise thats certainly your right.

[JayC]

Course what is funny is as much as I say I don't like it, between the theatre, DVD and cable i've probably seen the thing at least 10 times if not more.

[Devilbat]

(lol) That's like me and The Motion Picture; it just about puts me to sleep in some parts, but it's still Star Trek, so I still love it on some level.