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I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people that will potentially be going to see this movie are not familiar with the backgrounds of any of these characters, and if they are, it's probably the cartoon versions.

 

So yeah, establishing some background is probably at least somewhat necessary. Moviegoers definitely -do- complain when they don't get any sort of "filler" information along the way. Even many kids' cartoons these days play up their "internal mythology" along the way, and start out with "origin episodes."

 

What's the incentive to go see the movie then...as a non-familiar fan? I can't speak for the entire "movie-going" nation, but I would feel safe in ASSUMING that a majority of them go to see movies to be entertained with great plots, great action and just plain ol' good enjoyment and "fillers" are not the crux of that desired experience. How much "filler" have we ever needed on a villain from a James Bond movie? How much "filler" did kids need in viewing a G.I.Joe cartoon for the first time? How much "filler do we need on the species or aliens of a planet, everytime some space exploration team land on it and get attacked?

 

You're gonna have to give OTHER people a little more credit on being QUICK in the uptake of such things and can hit the ground running on a plot and get right into the thick of what's going on. Most of the movies and TV programs I've ever seen, have no such "origin" moments except in dialogue only and as far as TV programs, they usually only do the "origin episodes" after it's intial popularity builds and such an interest develops FIRST.

 

I wonder where all this anti-fandom attitude comes from sometimes, where the argument against them is always that fans don't count anyway, and nothing that's EVER done with the items of which we're all fans to begin with..is FOR them or with them in mind at all? I don't think this attitude is going to marginalize our (negative) opinions or make them go away, like we're just going to shrug our shoulders and walk away because somebody tells us we don't matter so we should stop talking (complaining) about it?

 

What couple are going to go out on Saturday night, to take in a new movie, and see on the marquee G.I.JOE: THE RISE OF COBRA and if they've ZERO familiarity of it, are going to say "yeah..that one"? Do you really htink it's going to be the "vast majority"? ^_^

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I agree joe was never blackhawk down, but the Joe side was never as far out as this. Initially Cobra was the whack jobs with the future tech, and that all a lot of fans (probably most) like it.

 

Naaaaw, GIJOE only had laser cannons, laser rifles, the HAVOC with its flying hovercraft, jet packs, robotic suits, flying subs, giant rolling headquarters, helicopters that deploy from tanks, mobile shuttle launchers......y'know normal everyday-type stuff.... :rolleyes:

 

Your just jealous because Canada doesn't....

 

 

Where to you think they got all the lumber to build all that stuff??? @smilepunch@

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I agree joe was never blackhawk down, but the Joe side was never as far out as this. Initially Cobra was the whack jobs with the future tech, and that all a lot of fans (probably most) like it.

 

Naaaaw, GIJOE only had laser cannons, laser rifles, the HAVOC with its flying hovercraft, jet packs, robotic suits, flying subs, giant rolling headquarters, helicopters that deploy from tanks, mobile shuttle launchers......y'know normal everyday-type stuff.... :rolleyes:

 

Your just jealous because Canada doesn't....

 

 

Where to you think they got all the lumber to build all that stuff??? @smilepunch@

 

 

You mean the steel they mill in Detroit??? Close to the border but thats our side pal! But to be fair you guys can have Detroit and let our countries crime rate drop in half. If you guys make tanks out of lumber, its no wonder you've never fought a war...and i thought Poland was bad @loll@

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I agree joe was never blackhawk down, but the Joe side was never as far out as this. Initially Cobra was the whack jobs with the future tech, and that all a lot of fans (probably most) like it.

 

Naaaaw, GIJOE only had laser cannons, laser rifles, the HAVOC with its flying hovercraft, jet packs, robotic suits, flying subs, giant rolling headquarters, helicopters that deploy from tanks, mobile shuttle launchers......y'know normal everyday-type stuff.... :rolleyes:

okay you got me a little (we have had this discussion before haven't we?) but they weren't all equipped with super suits! there is a big difference between a solider like fast draw here and there or battle force 2000 testing protos then the main team.

 

I'm also a comic fan, don't recall everyone having lasers in there.

 

Nanonites, while amazing, are overused, and overpowered in fiction. Besides if Nanonites could make someone evil or submissive, CC is going about gaining control of the world the wrong way, he just needs to get in contact with a congressman, world leader, heck even a mayor, and spread up and then out one zombie at a time. But i'm not sure to what extent the nanonites are controlling people. Depending on your who get your spoilers from it sounds like it ranges from straight up mind control, to just altering behavior to be more aggressive or passive that while insanely powerful is still a little limited.

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If you guys make tanks out of lumber, its no wonder you've never fought a war...and i thought Poland was bad guitar.gif

 

We built fighter bombers out of wood.

 

They don't show up on radar.

 

Yep, these are REAL.

( but they were back in WW2)

 

okay you got me a little (we have had this discussion before haven't we?) but they weren't all equipped with super suits!

 

Well, here's the thing.

Its been 25 years since GIJOE RAH started.

Let's use that time line for effect.

25 years after WW2 was 1970, military technology went from subsonic generation 1 jets and about 3-4th generation prop aircraft to hyper sonic and low orbital spacecraft capable of around Mach 3-6+ depending on type.

That's an order of magnitude greater progression in advancement.

 

Now, move the time-line up to 1980, and sit with the idea of near-future tech and what they saw back then as near future tech. Stuff speculated in Battleforce2000 is being fielded NOW, microwave and sonci weapons are being fielded for use today. Sensor technology allows troops to detect things like which direction a round is coming, as the shot happens. Command and control is so integrated today, its beyond what was considered 25 years ago.

So their best guesses THEN started to be realized within 5-15years.

 

Now shift to today:

They are working on exo-suits. They are working on automated support craft like the MULE. They have used automated drones for years now. Bio-sensors in uniforms are no longer speculation, because the data-streams on the battlefield are become R3 ( rugged, robust and reliable) and bandwidths are two-way, so injured soldiers can be diagnosed and then have medicines pumped into them remotely, if needed.

Stuff speculated for the Land Warrior programs less than 10 years ago are now being realized and fielded today.

What they are talking about NOW is an order of magnitude greater (at least) than tech 25 years ago.

 

The idea of a exo-suit makes total sense--especially if its used as depicted in the trailer of the movie:

Two soldiers conducting a tubular assault on a moving commuter train.

In a classic tubular assault, operators go in through the windows, because they are a easily point of access--once you deal with the glass. Trains do not mount armoured glass.

A armoured suit, that enhances physical abilities and response time is what would be needed to launch a dynamic assault on a moving train, in a limited time frame. The alternative is to assault by helicopter or a train running parallel on a side track. That would take too long.

My GUESS is that the sequence with the accelerator suits has these guys assaulting the train to gain access to a weapon ( a bomb??) hidden on the train.

 

The only way.....and the more dramatic way is to use some of this conjecture technology to showcase that the GIJOE team is just beyond the cutting edge in tech--which is what they have always been.

Is it more "superheroic"??

Yes, it is......its more flamboyant, more over-the-top.....and I think its more fun, but that is GIJOE too.

 

I mean........if they don't employ that, what is really left? Lasers and such which we have "already seen" in movies ( and somewhat in real life already).

Or does anyone think audiences would accept the "broadcast energy transmitter" as being sensible science these days?

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Could have been a lot worse. I'm of the mind that he'll have more than one mask in the movie anyway so Hasbro can sell more toys, and that's the only reason these movies exist- to sell toys.

 

I'm really not a fan of any of the movie designs of either GI Joe or Transformers, but having all this movie hype allows for stuff like the old cartoons to be issued again, so that's a good thing.

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Now I am just as much of an 80's fanboy as the rest of you, in fact i was born the year the cartoon version first aired on television! but lets face facts folks the hooded CC ( http://www.yojoe.com/action/08/images/cobr...r35_large.shtml )would have looked too gay in reality, flip-floppy fabric would have turned out to be a cinematic joke! and as for the other verion where the helmut face plate completely covers his face ( http://www.yojoe.com/action/07/agu/cobracommander26.shtml ), lets just say its hard for an actor to show range of emotion through a smooth-featureless mask! [/size]

 

 

I am not exactly sure how a hood looks any "gayer" than a plastic mask with tubes going through it. (I aint even sure what that means)... but it definitely wouldn't have been a joke. I have seen plenty of movies where there are characters wearing masks of even full hoods like this, and they are always the most intimidating of all.

 

as for the mask.. yeah.. you are totally right... look how terrible Darth Vader turned out to be.

 

 

@rolleyes@

 

Maybe they are going with a variant of Cobra-La...accept this time he's from Atlantis.

 

 

I think it is implying that Cobra Commander is some kind of cripple.

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On the positive side, almost all of the figures we have seen are different enough that they CAN be incorporated into your "Joeverse" as other characters. The only real exception would be Snake Eyes and, maybe, Scarlett.

 

This guy, might make an interesting 25th version of Toxo-Viper or something.

 

Now I am just as much of an 80's fanboy as the rest of you, in fact i was born the year the cartoon version first aired on television! but lets face facts folks the hooded CC ( http://www.yojoe.com/action/08/images/cobr...r35_large.shtml )would have looked too gay in reality, flip-floppy fabric would have turned out to be a cinematic joke! and as for the other verion where the helmut face plate completely covers his face ( http://www.yojoe.com/action/07/agu/cobracommander26.shtml ), lets just say its hard for an actor to show range of emotion through a smooth-featureless mask! [/size]

 

 

I am not exactly sure how a hood looks any "gayer" than a plastic mask with tubes going through it. (I aint even sure what that means)... but it definitely wouldn't have been a joke. I have seen plenty of movies where there are characters wearing masks of even full hoods like this, and they are always the most intimidating of all.

 

as for the mask.. yeah.. you are totally right... look how terrible Darth Vader turned out to be.

 

 

@rolleyes@

 

Maybe they are going with a variant of Cobra-La...accept this time he's from Atlantis.

 

 

I think it is implying that Cobra Commander is some kind of cripple.

 

Well, I have been a hardcore fan of GI Joe since I was a kid and I must say, this new look of Cobra Commander looks incredible. I was really disappointed when I first saw the Combat Heroes version and I thought it was going to be an absolute mess. But now seeing this awesome new interpretation of Cobra Commander, I have to admit, I am even more excited about this upcoming movie. I personally don't think that the classic helmet version or the hooded version could have made a real solid impact in a live action movie as it had in the animated series.

 

When I first heard the news that Joseph Gordon-Levitt was finalised to play Cobra Commander, my heart just fell. I just could not bring myself to accept the fact that this annoying snot-nosed punk 'alien kid' will be playing the world's most dreaded terrorist. Also the fact that Marlon Wayans was playing Ripcord almost made me decide to boycott this movie. But it was only because of Sienna Miller's presence that I decided to follow the madness that was going on with this crap. But once I saw the 30 seconds trailer, that was it. It was awesome, tremendous, fabulous and all the synonyms that comes along. It was something I never quite expected - it was the best damn trailer I had ever seen. And that is the reason why I completely changed my opinion about this movie and now I am just loving it. My only concern was with Destro and Cobra Commander's head gear, and after seeing the final result on the leaked images of these action figures, I am totally satisfied with it. Now I can accept Joseph as Cobra Commander with this amazing mask on. I just can't wait for the movie to release because I genuinely feel that this one is going to be for the ages.

 

Now I only wish that my country's idiotic, messed up, hypocrite, bastard of a government would completely reverse the ban on Chinese made toys and thereby, would allow these totally cool action figures to be sold in our marketplace. Oh the agony of an international collector.

 

Especially if you watch that jackass' interview about the movie.

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everytime I hear somebody say "most people don't know anything about Gijoe, so they had to update them for the movie"... I immediately think that person is dumb.

 

Okay, lets just assume that this is correct, most of the people who go to watch this movie won't know that much about GiJoe. However, how the hell does this assumption excuse coming up with the crap that the film-makers have done.

 

Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that these new designs and concepts are better than the old ones?

 

Just because a movie goer won't know who CC is, is there any reason they can't accept the old one?

 

 

NO!

 

there is a certain population of people who know everything about GiJoe, and expect to see a GiJoe movie.

there is second population of people who remember Gijoe, and know what kinds of things to expect.

there is a third population of people who know absolutely nothing about GiJoe, and have no idea what they will see.

 

so why the hell do you throw away the first 2 populations in order to create something brand new for the third? Does anybody think that the third population, knowing nothing about Gijoe, would prefer the crap we are getting over a real GiJoe movie?

 

 

GiJoe has plenty of wacky, futuristic, techy, ideas to put out a movie today and still seem cutting edge.. we don't need robojoe suits, we don't need CC with a plastic mask with tubes all over him... we don't need robots that look like alien insects (oops, that's the other Hasbro movie that got all f-ed up)...

 

there is no justifiable reason to throw the source material to the wind. it would work today just fine,... actually, even better.

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It's official. Hasbro hates their fans.

 

I've been waiting a long time to see what they decided to do with Cobra Commander, and this is what they give us.

 

Very sad. Very disappointing.

Still want to see the movie. But this sucks.

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you all will get over it....and yes-- some peopel dont know about GIJOE so its okay-- its just a fact. besides i grown to like this cobra commander. but ya know you have to wonder what new designs he'll have for a sequal. there are the possibilitys and you have to wonder about that.

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One thing that I find lacking is that there are no snake emblems. No semblence of their reptile counterparts as in the cartoon and comic. Remember when you could look at a character and tell if he were Cobra or a Joe because Cobra had a reptile look that matched their codenames or Cobra symbol? Now... I know that if you were in a terrorist organization, you would not want everyone to know about it and it is the "beginning" before Cobra became world recognized but, let's hope in time they donn the symbols.

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I don't get the studio disdain for the KKK Hood. COBRA Commander is a VILLAIN and terrorist! I'd think the hood would have really gotten that point across.

 

It looks like a bag over someone's head. Think about that for a minute.

 

A criminal mastermind, head of a worldwide terrorist organization, leader of evil.........wearing a bag over his head.

 

If that doesn't invoke at least snickers.....I don't know what will.....

 

It might look like a bag, but it's a mask of killers.

The hood was so terrible it evoked ideas of the KKK, which isn't silly when you realize the implications.

 

And terrorists wear masks (more like ski masks...) look at those execution videos. No one was laughing then.

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What's the incentive to go see the movie then...as a non-familiar fan? I can't speak for the entire "movie-going" nation, but I would feel safe in ASSUMING that a majority of them go to see movies to be entertained with great plots, great action and just plain ol' good enjoyment and "fillers" are not the crux of that desired experience. How much "filler" have we ever needed on a villain from a James Bond movie? How much "filler" did kids need in viewing a G.I.Joe cartoon for the first time? How much "filler do we need on the species or aliens of a planet, everytime some space exploration team land on it and get attacked?

 

You're gonna have to give OTHER people a little more credit on being QUICK in the uptake of such things and can hit the ground running on a plot and get right into the thick of what's going on. Most of the movies and TV programs I've ever seen, have no such "origin" moments except in dialogue only and as far as TV programs, they usually only do the "origin episodes" after it's intial popularity builds and such an interest develops FIRST.

 

You're going to have to remember that Hollywood isn't making movies just for the people that are "quick on the uptake." There's a reason that virtually every "first film" in most all of the successful franchises we've had in the last 10 years or so includes a heavy dose of "origin story" elements. Why do you expect G.I. Joe to be any different? This isn't a TV Show, it's a feature film that they want to expand into a franchise. Why do people seem to expect the counter-intuitive notion that Hollywood would not follow established patterns for this particular franchise?

 

I wonder where all this anti-fandom attitude comes from sometimes, where the argument against them is always that fans don't count anyway, and nothing that's EVER done with the items of which we're all fans to begin with..is FOR them or with them in mind at all? I don't think this attitude is going to marginalize our (negative) opinions or make them go away, like we're just going to shrug our shoulders and walk away because somebody tells us we don't matter so we should stop talking (complaining) about it?

 

What couple are going to go out on Saturday night, to take in a new movie, and see on the marquee G.I.JOE: THE RISE OF COBRA and if they've ZERO familiarity of it, are going to say "yeah..that one"? Do you really htink it's going to be the "vast majority"? ^_^

 

It's not an "anti-fandom attitude." It's an understanding of where Hollywood is coming from when they make these decisions to change things up in the property (it's not even a judgment as to whether the change is bad or good). Most of the people they're aiming to get the big bucks from on the ticket sales (The teenage market) weren't even born when G.I. Joe cartoons were on TV and Larry Hama ruled the spinner racks at 7-11. Most of the kids that they're hoping will get their parents roped in to buying the action figures have no frame of reference for G.I. Joe beyond maybe Sigma 6 if they're old enough (no surprise that the movie seems to incorporate a lot of elements from it).

 

"Zero familiarity" may have been an overstatement on my part. But the fact of the matter is that the 25-30+ market is NOT the primary "summer blockbuster" market. That honor goes to the Teenagers. Yeah, us older folks make up a significant portion, but the "vast majority" of that older audience is likely to be entering the theater with a memory of a name (G.I. Joe), and perhaps a few images (of which Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Baroness, Scarlett, and Destro appear to be presented in "familiar enough" incarnations that most people will recognize...or at least incarnations that are no different than the differences between say, Comic-Book Wolverine and Movie Wolverine. Or even Comic-Book Batman and Movie Batman, cosmetically speaking), and maybe a few scattered details that likely spring more from the cartoon than comics. They're not going to remember that Ripcord was white, or that Cobra Commander was a used car salesman turned would-be-conquerer. That kind of detail is generally lost on people that haven't "kept up" with the mythos. Heck, a lot of the people that played with G.I. Joe toys as kids probably never followed the mythos at all, and instead made it up as they went along.

 

As for the people that truly have ZERO familiarity, it's a false argument to say they're standing in front of the marquee and deciding what they're going to see. That demographic of moviegoer is likely not terribly significant (The "randomly wanders to the theater to see what's up" demographic), and are probably going to see whatever is the "new release" that week anyway (which...ta da! Would be G.I. Joe that week). As for the rest of the people that decide what they're going to see before they get to the movie theater...that's what marketing is for. Television spots and trailers are for roping them in. Familiarity with the franchise isn't absolutely necessary to get people's butts in seats on opening weekend.

 

everytime I hear somebody say "most people don't know anything about Gijoe, so they had to update them for the movie"... I immediately think that person is dumb.

 

Okay, lets just assume that this is correct, most of the people who go to watch this movie won't know that much about GiJoe. However, how the hell does this assumption excuse coming up with the crap that the film-makers have done.

 

Is there any reason whatsoever to believe that these new designs and concepts are better than the old ones?

 

Just because a movie goer won't know who CC is, is there any reason they can't accept the old one?

 

 

NO!

 

Anytime I see someone that can't wrap their brain around WHY Hollywood (and Hasbro) would have that attitude, I immediately think they're ignorant.

 

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Obviously Hollywood feels otherwise. Interesting to note that the "old" G.I. Joe mythos hasn't exactly been setting the sales charts on fire for the past 10-15 years, particularly compared to other franchises. Come to think of it, I can't recall a single example of a "revived" 80's nostalgia property that's been brought to the screen (or the toy shelves) in a "purely classic" format and enjoyed massive mainstream success.

 

there is a certain population of people who know everything about GiJoe, and expect to see a GiJoe movie.

there is second population of people who remember Gijoe, and know what kinds of things to expect.

there is a third population of people who know absolutely nothing about GiJoe, and have no idea what they will see.

 

so why the hell do you throw away the first 2 populations in order to create something brand new for the third? Does anybody think that the third population, knowing nothing about Gijoe, would prefer the crap we are getting over a real GiJoe movie?

 

This is a real G.I. Joe movie whether you like it or not. You don't choose what G.I. Joe is...Hasbro (the franchise owners) do. It's not a 1980's G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero movie, but it is a G.I. Joe movie. It's your choice whether you choose to watch it, or like it, but it's as legitimate a take as anything else.

 

It's also a falsehood to lump the "second" population in with the "first." The second population you speak of "knows what kind of things to expect." You mean like cutting-edge tech, black and white ninjas fighting each other, and a crazy would be world-conquering villain and a colorful (figuratively speaking) collection of cronies that includes a metal-headed arms dealer and an Eastern European vampy librarian babe? Yeah...they're getting all those.

 

GiJoe has plenty of wacky, futuristic, techy, ideas to put out a movie today and still seem cutting edge.. we don't need robojoe suits, we don't need CC with a plastic mask with tubes all over him... we don't need robots that look like alien insects (oops, that's the other Hasbro movie that got all f-ed up)...

 

there is no justifiable reason to throw the source material to the wind. it would work today just fine,... actually, even better.

 

Yeah, except they're trying to make it cutting edge for the 21st century, not for the 20th. They're also seeming to base a lot of it on cutting-edge military and scientific concepts that are already in development. To me, that seems very much in keeping with the spirit of G.I. Joe.

 

You also keep focusing on the source material that has been "thrown out" but I find it curious that no one even bothers to look for or mention the source material that's still in there. The Snake-Eyes/SE relationship, the Snake-Eyes/Scarlett relationship (to an extent), Destro's entire background, all the way back to his family history. It's not quite the complete abandonment that some people claim it is.

 

And in closing, your opinion that it would "work today even better" is YOUR opinion, with little to no factual evidence to back it up. "Our" G.I. Joe has not been wildly successful for the last 10-15 years. Mildly-to-moderately successful, maybe, but nowhere near the levels of Hasbro's "golden" franchises (Transformers and Star Wars). Clearly Hasbro and Paramount feel some retooling is necessary to push it to that level, and their best indicator/the example they have to go off of is the highly successful Transformers movie. (Note this is not a commentary on the quality of the movie, but you flat-out cannot deny that it made a lot of money, which is the primary goal of any summer blockbuster). Transformers tells them they can take a lot of liberties with a "nostalgia" property and still rake in the big-bucks. Whether we agree or disagree with the notion is effectively a moot point. It's counter-intuitive to think that they shouldn't (or wouldn't) follow the mold of the already-successful example they have on their plate (Transformers) when making what they hope to be their next franchise-starter.

 

The changes are done, and while a few of them have supposedly been tweaked as nods to the Fandom, there's little else we can do about it now except decide whether we're going to lay down our cash to see the film when it hits theaters or DVD and decide for ourselves if we're entertained by it once the credits roll.

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This figure is an insult to my namesake and quit simply anyone defending it is just a bandwagoner whose trying to hard to like the upcoming movie. Just because they slap the Joe name on it and butcher the logo doesn't mean it has anything to do with joes. Yes it is a REAL Gi Joe movie like you said above, but it's not a good one from the looks of it and perhaps one of the dumbest things to slide out of the movie industry since 2000. As far as familiarity, it has nothing to do with people who are non fans. This movie looks like crap regardless. For those of us who ARE fans and who grew up with Cobra Commander this is an insult.

 

"I was onceeee a man"

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This figure is an insult to my namesake and quit simply anyone defending it is just a bandwagoner whose trying to hard to like the upcoming movie. Just because they slap the Joe name on it and butcher the logo doesn't mean it has anything to do with joes. Yes it is a REAL Gi Joe movie like you said above, but it's not a good one from the looks of it and perhaps one of the dumbest things to slide out of the movie industry since 2000. As far as familiarity, it has nothing to do with people who are non fans. This movie looks like crap regardless. For those of us who ARE fans and who grew up with Cobra Commander this is an insult.

 

"I was onceeee a man"

 

 

Ah, so this is about "real" fans and those folks who just call themselves fans again?

 

Have you read what you wrote?

 

Geez, I've been interested in GIJOE longer than most of the posters in their thread have been alive and I have zero problem with this look.

Its just another iteration of the character and I'm looking forward to the movie. I don't even have to "try hard" it looks cool and fun right from the outset.

 

My enjoyment of something isn't determined by whether or not a character wears a bag over his head--simply because a lot of his looks never had the bag. The character has worn a hood, several different faceplates with helmet, armoured helmet with eye holes....and various disguises.....whose to say which of any of those are truly iconic or defining of the character?

This is what Hasbro and Paramount have chosen to call GIJOE and COBRA Commander, its is exactly that--this is their 2009 movie look for COBRA Commander and GIJOE. Just like GIJOE Extreme, Sigma Six, Super-Joe, Adventurer Team (and even Sinbad) are GIJOE.

Perhaps instead of being insulted, you need to get over yourself.

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What's the incentive to go see the movie then...as a non-familiar fan? I can't speak for the entire "movie-going" nation, but I would feel safe in ASSUMING that a majority of them go to see movies to be entertained with great plots, great action and just plain ol' good enjoyment and "fillers" are not the crux of that desired experience. How much "filler" have we ever needed on a villain from a James Bond movie? How much "filler" did kids need in viewing a G.I.Joe cartoon for the first time? How much "filler do we need on the species or aliens of a planet, everytime some space exploration team land on it and get attacked?

 

You're gonna have to give OTHER people a little more credit on being QUICK in the uptake of such things and can hit the ground running on a plot and get right into the thick of what's going on. Most of the movies and TV programs I've ever seen, have no such "origin" moments except in dialogue only and as far as TV programs, they usually only do the "origin episodes" after it's intial popularity builds and such an interest develops FIRST.

 

You're going to have to remember that Hollywood isn't making movies just for the people that are "quick on the uptake." There's a reason that virtually every "first film" in most all of the successful franchises we've had in the last 10 years or so includes a heavy dose of "origin story" elements. Why do you expect G.I. Joe to be any different?

 

What are some of these "first films" (with their heavy dose of origin elements) in the last 10 years, that were any good? You're assuming that they're wanting to make G.I.Joe a franchise like Spiderman, Batman, Ironman or The Hulk...is that a personal assumption or do you care to reveal what your expertise (in Hollywood) and your source material is on such insight? If you're claiming that they're making this G.I.Joe movie for dummies (slow folks, not so quick on the uptake) then I guess they're making it just the way they should, and that would certainly give merit to our complaints over it.....correct?

 

If the vast majority of moviegoer's are as stupid as Hollywood seems to think they are...where's STREET FIGHTER II?? HOWARD THE DUCK??

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This figure is an insult to my namesake and quit simply anyone defending it is just a bandwagoner whose trying to hard to like the upcoming movie. Just because they slap the Joe name on it and butcher the logo doesn't mean it has anything to do with joes. Yes it is a REAL Gi Joe movie like you said above, but it's not a good one from the looks of it and perhaps one of the dumbest things to slide out of the movie industry since 2000. As far as familiarity, it has nothing to do with people who are non fans. This movie looks like crap regardless. For those of us who ARE fans and who grew up with Cobra Commander this is an insult.

 

"I was onceeee a man"

 

 

Ah, so this is about "real" fans and those folks who just call themselves fans again?

 

Have you read what you wrote?

 

Geez, I've been interested in GIJOE longer than most of the posters in their thread have been alive and I have zero problem with this look.

Its just another iteration of the character and I'm looking forward to the movie. I don't even have to "try hard" it looks cool and fun right from the outset.

 

My enjoyment of something isn't determined by whether or not a character wears a bag over his head--simply because a lot of his looks never had the bag. The character has worn a hood, several different faceplates with helmet, armoured helmet with eye holes....and various disguises.....whose to say which of any of those are truly iconic or defining of the character?

This is what Hasbro and Paramount have chosen to call GIJOE and COBRA Commander, its is exactly that--this is their 2009 movie look for COBRA Commander and GIJOE. Just like GIJOE Extreme, Sigma Six, Super-Joe, Adventurer Team (and even Sinbad) are GIJOE.

Perhaps instead of being insulted, you need to get over yourself.

 

In defense of criticisms about this look for Cobra Commander, the "fans" of G.I.Joe are like the equivalent of somebody that READS a lot and knows about a story from a book they read or a series of books they've read on a particular character or subject and have a very developed knowledge of it from reading the books. How many times have we seen a movie with somebody like this..and they usually come away and say "the book was BETTER"?? Their over developed knowledge of the material made it difficult for them to enjoy a directors interpretation of it for the big screen and there is ALWAYS stuff changed or left out because of time restraints and the need to speed the pace up.

 

I'm like you Ken and my interest in G.I.Joe was established LONG before ARAH came around. All my Joe adventures were mostly in my head, out in the back yard with a bearded Adventure Team 12" Joe climbing trees and rocks and fighting imaginary nameless enemies. The size of the NEW joes in the 80's made laugh and feel sorry for the kids that had to play with them, but then what they lacked in stature, was made up for with quality in story and multiple characterization. My attachment to ARAH isn't as strong as those young kids that grew up with it and it's mythos is so heavily imbedded in their knowledge of it, but I can still see why they'd be so upset and disappointed in changes to the characters like this. Sort of like the difference between my 12" bearded kung-fu grip sportin' Adventure Team G.I.Joe's and the versions they tried to push on us in their first re-launch in the mid 90's with wire bendy arms and legs? ^_^

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What are some of these "first films" (with their heavy dose of origin elements) in the last 10 years, that were any good? You're assuming that they're wanting to make G.I.Joe a franchise like Spiderman, Batman, Ironman or The Hulk...is that a personal assumption or do you care to reveal what your expertise (in Hollywood) and your source material is on such insight?

 

I'll join in here.

 

Let's make a list:

Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings.

X-men

Batman Begins

Iron Man

Incredible Hulk (second one)

Ghost Rider

Chronicles of Narnia

Casino Royale

The Matrix

The Bourne Identity

Spiderman

Transformers

And the first Harry Potter movie

 

All of these are considered origin movies, because they are the beginnings of their respective ( in some cases, rebooted) franchises, and I think most folks here would concede that a lot of these are good flims.

GIJOE is the first of three films that are in the pipeline, as this has been written up in Variety and other sources that Paramount and Hasbro want this to become a film franchise--and that it has a byline to it: The Rise of COBRA.

 

 

If the vast majority of moviegoer's are as stupid as Hollywood seems to think they are...where's STREET FIGHTER II?? HOWARD THE DUCK??

 

Well they have made 3 or 4 Fast& Furious movies, and at least 3 Transporter films and gawd only knows how many High School Musical movies and none of those are what is considered to be highbrow stuff

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I don't see what the big deal is really. I mean, I understand that there are alot of older fans like me that have been around since day one of ARAH; we've read every comic, we've seen every episode of the toon, and we have deep-rooted, distinct, and very exact ideas as to what we think G.I. Joe should look and feel like, and in our minds our so-called "definitive" version of G.I. Joe is THE version of G.I. Joe, and we think that's what the film should mirror.

 

BUT...I still have not seen anything that is a drastic departure from the G.I. Joe I know and love really. Now granted, the characters don't look exactly like their classic counterparts, but at the same time, I think certain versions really made an impression on some of us, and that's what we expect. That's why some are so upset. But as someone else pointed out, how many versions of given characters did we see in the original line? And who's to say which one was the most iconic? It will depend greatly on who you ask, I'd imagine.

 

I've seen some fleeting images of Duke and Heavy Duty in more traditional military garb, so we will see a glimpse of at least a few members of the team as such, if that's what's bothering some. But we're still getting a covert black ops para-military/counter-terrorist team that utilyzes the most cutting-edge weapons and technology to combat Cobra. That's been the premise since day one. So what if they don't look like they did in the toon, or even in the comics? If some of us would be really honest with ourselves, the classic looks some of the characters have are very dated and not very militaristic to begin with. Could you take Shipwreck seriously running around on film in his sailor's uniform, complete with the traditional bell-bottoms? Or how about Scarlett in her bathing-suit and leotard-in-high-heeled-boots combo, neither of which has any inkling of camouflage anywhere. (lol)

 

I know, I know; there are more realistic examples to draw from in the line, especially a little later one, but c'mon guys. At the end of the day, personally I just want to be entertained. And if I can collect some cool toys to commemorate the film, then it's a cool bonus. If the movie is a dramatic departure from what I know and love, and I end-up hating it, then so what? The sun will come up the next day and life will go on. I'll always have my vintage figures and comics to fall back on that will enable me to enjoy G.I. Joe the way I want to. But I'm really excited about this movie. I'm not jumping on any bandwagon, and I'm not taking sides here. It goes without saying that everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I just think it's unfair when people don't budge and present their thoughts as gospel, that they're so conviced that they're right that everyone else is just stupid or wrong.

 

I personally feel that if they had stuck completely with the classic look of the characters, that the movie would have been a niche movie with a cult following, not one with the broad mass appeal that studios are wanting in their films. And I guess many fans feel as if they deserve that, a film that caters to them and only them. I can see that, to an extent, because it's many of us older fans that made G.I. Joe the name brand it is today. But really the studio is trying to make money, bottom line. That's just a cold hard fact. And you have to realize, we've had several iterations over the years. The studio has to come up with a version that will appeal to every different generation and the respective version of G.I. Joe they were exposed to. And they have to do it in a way that is respectful of the source material, yet it must be presented in an attractive and exciting way. As long as the designs are cool, and the story is done well, then I'm on board. And I've yet to see anything that will dissuade me from seeing the movie. Not even this new Cobra Commander. To me he looks cool and interesting, even if he don't look anything like any of his classic versions. It just yet another version of him, no big deal. Actually it kind of reminds me of a cross between the Battle Armor and '92 versions, only with hoses and a trenchcoat. (lol) And I like the semi-translucent hermetic mask; you can't quite make out what's underneath, and to me that's unsettling. That's what makes it cool to me.

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What are some of these "first films" (with their heavy dose of origin elements) in the last 10 years, that were any good? You're assuming that they're wanting to make G.I.Joe a franchise like Spiderman, Batman, Ironman or The Hulk...is that a personal assumption or do you care to reveal what your expertise (in Hollywood) and your source material is on such insight?

 

I'll join in here.

 

Let's make a list:

Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings.

X-men

Batman Begins

Iron Man

Incredible Hulk (second one)

Ghost Rider

Chronicles of Narnia

Casino Royale

The Matrix

The Bourne Identity

Spiderman

Transformers

And the first Harry Potter movie

 

All of these are considered origin movies, because they are the beginnings of their respective ( in some cases, rebooted) franchises, and I think most folks here would concede that a lot of these are good flims.

GIJOE is the first of three films that are in the pipeline, as this has been written up in Variety and other sources that Paramount and Hasbro want this to become a film franchise--and that it has a byline to it: The Rise of COBRA.

 

An awful lot of Super Hero characters listed in there, and not too many of them strayed all too far from the characters "known" appearances. Batman looks like Batman, Spider man looks like Spiderman, Hulk looked like Hulk, Iron Man looked like Iron Man, Ghost Rider looked like Ghost Rider. The James Bond movie Casino Royale is "origin" in title only as the first of the novels by Ian Flemming. The origins of stories like Narnia, Matrix, Bourne, Potter, Lord of the Rings all stayed true to previous writings on the subject material, what was previously printed on them was transferred respectfully to screen and was quite impressive.

 

Liberties were taken with X-Men and Transformers (to much chagrins from the "fans") but who cares....I wasn't a prior fan of the subject beforehand so no toes were stepped on with me. I take more interest in G.I.joe as I feel I AM a fan, and not to sound like that makes me an expert or anyone of importance (as folks like to remind us on regular occasion) but I have admitted expectations I can't deny for the sake of not sounding negative or like a spoiled rotten complainer that's impossible to sastify. ^_^

 

 

If the vast majority of moviegoer's are as stupid as Hollywood seems to think they are...where's STREET FIGHTER II?? HOWARD THE DUCK??

 

Well they have made 3 or 4 Fast& Furious movies, and at least 3 Transporter films and gawd only knows how many High School Musical movies and none of those are what is considered to be highbrow stuff

 

I like the Transporter films! :(

 

Those films didn't exactly have "origin" fillers in them either, they just told a story right off and only because they became decent box office attractions, they made MORE of them or more of the same theme to them, but does that really classify the FIRST versions as the "origin" of the characters? Dr. No was the FIRST Bond film, but obviously it wasn't the origin of Bond himself? I think of G.I.Joe as more like a large group of James Bonds, going after Spectre (COBRA) and we never needed to know why Dr. No, Goldfinger or Blofeld became International terrorists, except in dialogue only as they described their sinister plots to take over the world, and we jsut knew Bond was going to stop them. As a Bond fan, I'm not even sure I know why he became a secret agent and what happened in his childhood that made him want to be and HOW? He's bad, he's tough, he gets the sexy woman and he kills the bad guys! That's the same with G.I.Joe vs. Cobra...IMO! :)

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I don't think you're a spoiled rotten complainer, VH. I do think there are a few of those here, but you're not one of them. You normally at least attempt to inject a modicum of common sense into your opinions.

 

Look, I get why people don't like some of these changes. Several of them I don't like myself. What "gets" me is why people (not necessarily you personally, VH) seem to have this expectation that things were going to be any different with this movie than they are with virtually any other Hollywood production, when it defies pretty much every pattern and every example we've seen from the last 10 years or so of "franchise" movies.

 

Every franchise that's been brought to the screen has had changes made to it to accommodate the adaptation. Heck, at this point I would say G.I. Joe probably isn't even the worst of the lot in that regard, though it's certainly far from the most faithful. By the same token, even many of the "most faithful" have still made fairly significant changes (Green Goblin's design, Spidey's Organic Webshooters, Obadiah Stane's relationship to Tony Stark and the development of their conflict...not to mention about two-dozen suits of armor in between his "Starter suit" and the suit he wore in the movie). Further, of all these "franchises" we've gotten, only one so far has taken an 80's toy "nostalgia property" to the screen and made big bucks, and it was Transformers, which we all know took great liberties with the source material and designs. It was successful (financially) despite those changes, and despite the complaints of the entrenched fanbase about those changes. Without Transformers success, we probably still wouldn't be getting a G.I. Joe film on-screen (it'd still likely be languishing in "development hell"). Admittedly, some folks might think that's a better alternative at this point, but that's neither here nor there.

 

In any case, the very same movie studio is looking to replicate that success of Transformers with G.I. Joe using a very similar recipe. I tend to think it won't reach quite that level of success...but I'm betting that it'll make enough to warrant a sequel. It's a "weak" year for summer blockbuster films, but not a weak year for box office sales thus far (despite the poor economy). For all the changes that we dislike, this film has pretty much everything going for it in terms of ending up making money.

 

We as older fans don't have to like it, don't have to accept it as "our" Joe, and don't have to support it with our money. That's up to each of us as individuals to decide. It's fine to "wish" for something better, but in all honesty, I just can't help but feel that most folks that really had high expectations that this was going to be a straight live-action adaptation of Larry Hama's old Marvel Comics, or even of the old Sunbow toons were kind of setting themselves up for disappointment from the get-go.

 

Maybe it's a fatalistic or overly pessimistic viewpoint, but expecting a Steven Spielberg (for example) directed masterpiece of filmmaking to come from G.I. Joe seems to me to have been setting the bar a little too high.

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Really, I don't care if it is another version of the character. I don't have to like it. We're entitled to something that looks REMOTELY like the comics/figures/cartoon show. If you change it too much you lose the feel and essence of the character entirely. There is no excuse. It's not a difficult concept to translate into film format. The Sideshow figure is a perfect example. It's a more realistic take on Cobra Commander that sticks to the general design.

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Really, I don't care if it is another version of the character. I don't have to like it. We're entitled to something that looks REMOTELY like the comics/figures/cartoon show. If you change it too much you lose the feel and essence of the character entirely. There is no excuse. It's not a difficult concept to translate into film format. The Sideshow figure is a perfect example. It's a more realistic take on Cobra Commander that sticks to the general design.

 

Actually, we're not "entitled" to anything. Except whatever toy you get when you give your money to your local retailer. Hasbro and Paramount don't owe us a single thing, and we don't owe them anything either. You're right though, in that you -don't- have to like it.

 

The filmmakers explained why they didn't go with the hood (they felt it evoked images of the Ku Klux Klan). We might not agree with their reasoning, but they did -have- reasons for it.

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