Please explain why some people don't buy 25th

[Hammerfel]

No flames, please. I'm just curious.

 

I love ARAH and will continue to buy them and put the figures in my Dioramas (I have several hundred ARAH figs), but I feel many of the 25th figures look more like the comic characters and have a LOT more articulation. More poses, more realistic looking (in general anyway) makes for better Dios, IMHO.

 

So I have room in my collection for both styles, and I use whichever works best in my dios, but some people decide they'll never buy 25th. I'd like to politely ask why.

[hoganvibe]

Don't know. I have them both. I like my original Duke better than the new one... but that may just be a sentimental thing. I have a mix of GI Joes through the years

[ARROW]

So I have room in my collection for both styles, and I use whichever works best in my dios, but some people decide they'll never buy 25th. I'd like to politely ask why.

 

Some people like peanut butter.

Some people like chocolate.

Some like both.

 

Some like neither.

 

Some are allergic to either one, so some CANNOT enjoy either.

Some CHOOSE not to enjoy either.

And some adamantly stand by their preference for one over the other.

And some are just not that fussy.

 

Does that help?

[Hammerfel]

Not really. No.

[Hammerfel]

Some people like peanut butter.

Some people like chocolate.

Some like both.

 

Some like neither.

 

Some are allergic to either one, so some CANNOT enjoy either.

Some CHOOSE not to enjoy either.

And some adamantly stand by their preference for one over the other.

And some are just not that fussy.

 

Does that help?

After your edit, it's a little more helpful. Adding the parts after "allergic" helps me understand stubbornness, but not the original reasons to prefer one over the other to the exclusion of one.

[Viper Hunter]

I'd say it's as simple as they just really don't like them? I buy both myself, so I can't say for certain on what their motives would be, but I don't find the 25th to be a "perfect" action figure toy either, so it would be easier for me to understan WHY somebody wouldn't want to buy them and add to their collection of G.I.Joe toys. While the 25th are better in some areas, they lack in others, and I feel there's a formula out there somewhere that could more sufficiently (by my tastes anyway) produce the "perfect" G.I.Joe action figure.

[nevermore]

I collected RAH as a kid and then when I saw the 200X MOTU figs I started collecting those. I got into the habit. Then the line ended and I turned my attention to GI Joe towards the tail end of the Spytroops line. I bought and bought and bought from JvC through VvV. I army built as much as my finances would allow. I know a lot of people have problems with those sculpts but I liked them.

 

Then 25th came. I admit they are cool. I even bought the entire 1st wave. But I never opened them. Then we hit some rough patches and so I sold my wave 1 figs as they were in demand (particularly Flint). Then later I started rebuying them...but I was behind and still didn't have that much $ so I decided to sell the 25th figs I had again (save a few of my favs like Serpentor and the twins). Basically I couldn't justify spending that much $ to rebuild a collection I already had. With GI Joe I want to army build and it was too expensive to army build 25th figs. I decided I would rather just take my $ and make the armies I currently had bigger (especially since they became cheaper).

[Hammerfel]

Yeah, you make a good point. I bought a LOT of Cobra army builders from the ARAH age and cringe thinking about the expense to replace them with the new style.

[Viper Hunter]

I collected RAH as a kid and then when I saw the 200X MOTU figs I started collecting those. I got into the habit. Then the line ended and I turned my attention to GI Joe towards the tail end of the Spytroops line. I bought and bought and bought from JvC through VvV. I army built as much as my finances would allow. I know a lot of people have problems with those sculpts but I liked them.

 

Then 25th came. I admit they are cool. I even bought the entire 1st wave. But I never opened them. Then we hit some rough patches and so I sold my wave 1 figs as they were in demand (particularly Flint). Then later I started rebuying them...but I was behind and still didn't have that much $ so I decided to sell the 25th figs I had again (save a few of my favs like Serpentor and the twins). Basically I couldn't justify spending that much $ to rebuild a collection I already had. With GI Joe I want to army build and it was too expensive to army build 25th figs. I decided I would rather just take my $ and make the armies I currently had bigger (especially since they became cheaper).

 

That brings up an issue I've recently decide upon as well, and with the costs of these 25th toys and then the irritating inability to find them at retail (my perferred method of collecting) I've decided I'd be better off to forego on any future 25th items (maybe even sell off the stuff I have already) and take that money saved and earned and maybe pick up some of the Convention sets I really like and prefer over this 25th stuff.

[pesatyel]

Well one reason people don't buy them has a lot to do with quality control.

 

RAH figures had their share of problems (the two most common being broken thumbs and crotches), sure, but things like articulation, which SHOUJLDN'T have been a problem with 25th figures....was a significant problem. Duke Arms is the best example. But lets not forget the crotch problem that plagued (and still does) many of the figures among a few other things.

 

Another is accessories. Until the "tree guns" of the 90s, Most figures came with some pretty unique gear. When someone say's "Falcon's shotgun", you KNOW what they mean. He was the only figure to come with that shotgun.

 

 

That's not to say they aren't trying to do that with the 25th figures and I can understand their needing to economize, it just feels like something was lost in that regard.

[CaptainTriumph]

I buy both but I display them seperate. I guess some people have different tastes. I personally love orange juice but hate Sunny D...

[hamsterboy]

They don't want to buy,it's up to them. That just means it'll be easier for the rest of us to get them.

[A_Spidey_Fan]

I've bought a few 4" 25th Anniversity style and Valor V.S. Venom Joes figures, and I do like them. Never owned any orginal Joes figures. Anyways, here's my list as to why some people maynot like to get into the 25th Anniversity style figures, based on various things, such as my opinions, or what I've read about what people have written about in other message boards(In regards to other toylines that is, but could still apply to the 25th Anniversity style figures). Should warn that it's going to be a long read, and that many of the reasons I've listed is just mainly because certian fans could be just picky about things:

 

- Price: Single Joe figure is about $10.00 or $11.00 Canadian. During Valor V.S. Venom, when I saw those in both Wal-mart and Toys R Us back in 2004, the 2 packs costed around the same price as the 25th Anniversity singles of today.

 

- Too many screw ups on their 1st release of a figure while a later release of the same character is "Fixed", or 1st release was good but recent release sucks: Examples include the Duke arms(Which was fixed), the Viper arms(Which has been fixed for the recent Cobra 5 pack from what I understand), Flints arms were also fixed, etc. Some earler verisons had different torso sculpt than their current releases/verison, with their current verisons giving you better leg movement. Colour choices/shades of a character can affect some people's decison(Example: This release of Storm Shadow should of had the 1st release's shade of colours) or accessories. And then you have people who say that a current figure's head/arms/whatever of a character sucks while the 1 that 1st came out in the 25th line was great(I think the current Joe Boxset Flint suffers from this).

 

- Budget reasons, due to current encomny or personal income. Person maybe the hugest Joe fan in the world, but toys don't mean squat if you can't even afford to buy food. Another possiblity to this is that the person has many toylines he or she likes to collect, but again, has to cut out or limit their options for whatever reason right now(Encomny, college, family, personal income, etc.), and unfortunally, G.I. Joe line has to be sarificed. Or they may like G.I. Joe, but not enough to buy them with their cash. Would rather save cash for DC Univerise, NECA, whatever Marvel Legends they can get, etc.

 

- Too many Duke's, Cobra Commander's, Snake Eyes, and Storm Shadow's released in a short time spand, thus not that many character options. Oringial line had a larger good diversity of characters. Even if these 4 were offered again in the orginal line, they were either different in some way(Most of the time sculpt, but sometimes colour as well), or were released in a good time spain. Meanwhile, the 25th verisons are often re-released a bunch of times within a few months, mostly as a repaint with really no new scuplt.

 

- Too Many Options Of Characters To Be Released And Re-Released: Singles, 2 packs, 3 packs, 5 packs, Multipacks with DVD's, Vehicle Packs, Store Exclusives, etc. Many characters are 1st released in 1 of these options, and they are usually then re-released later in another packaging. Perhaps the individual is waiting to see if a certian figure will be re-released in another option to see if there is a better option. I'm going to use both Gold and Silver head Destros and Battle Armor Cobra Commander/Fred as an example. 1st off, I'm going to say right now that I perfer getting multi-packs than the single releases of the 25th Anniversity Joes, mainly because I get more bang for my buck, as well as get a little sometime extra sometimes(Example: Comic book or DVD). For Silver Head Destro, while I though the orignial from the 25th line was good along with his accessoires, I wanted to wait and see if it would be offered in a comic book 2 pack. It was, but in a blue suit so I skipped that. Eventually, the DVD Battle Packs was reviled, and I picked up the DVD Battle Packs for my Silver Head Destro, plus got Lady Jaye and Roadblock. Similar thing happened with the Gold Head Destro, except I bought the TRU Exclusive 3 pack with 2 Iron Greaders soliders. Sure, the 25th single was cool in the black suit, and I didn't like the comic book 2 pack, but I liked the 3 pack because it came with 2 soliders, plus the 3 pack's Destro was a very dark purple that could look almost black which I could live with. As for Battle Armor Commander/Fred, while I was really tempted to get the single verison, I decided to wait and see if he would be offered later in another option, and I was right because he's now released in a Comic 2 pack with Gung Ho. So I want to get the 2 pack.

 

- So and So character isn't released yet: Maybe their favourite obsured character hasn't been released yet, so that person may feel that they wouldn't get into the line until they get their favourite character 1st. Or they would rather wait until something like "All the Dreadkonks are released 1st, and then buying the Dreadkonks and other characters. What's the point of buying other characters when not all the Dreadkonks are released. My Dreadkonks team will feel incomplete". Another possiblity is that they are waiting until their favourite verison of a character is done in 25th style. Example: "I'm not getting into this line until a VvV verison of Dr. Mindbender is done in the 25th style. Only then is it worth it." For me in the 8" Sigma 6 line, while I wasn't too much of a fan of the scale, I couldn't deny that the toys looked really cool, and was consdiering picking up a few. Was even considering just getting the Ninja 2 pack and that's it. But I really felt that I would only get into the line if Scarlett(May favourite female Joe) was released. Found out in 2007 that while Scarlett is sculpted, she will never be released because the Sigma scale had ended, so I decided at the time to no longer worry about Sigma 6 and not get any. While I may have recently have an interest in Sigma 6 figures again and are considering to pick up a few, I'm going to tell you right now that if Hasbro had released a Sigma scale Scarlett, I would of defently bought her along with a bunch of Sigma figures back then.

 

- Too Much Articulation: Some people don't like it when figures have too much articulation because it can either make the figure more flimsy, or it affects the scupt in some way. This comment is based on both what I've heard about in past Super Articulated toylines, and from what I've notice on some of my figures. Super Articulation is cool, but sometimes, when a figure has too much, it makes the figure more fragile and easier to break, and this can vary due to the type of materials used, or even the scale of toys. In the 4" scale case, I'm sometimes worried that all that artculation will break the figure easily. I mean, comparing my VvV and 25th Scarlett figures, the VvV verison feels like something that can handle a little rough play and won't break as easily, while the 25th verison, no matter how much I love it, I'm afraid that I may accidently break a leg sometimes, or pop out the gloved hands. So, if for some reason, I allowed my 5 year old Nephew to play with my Joe figures, I would rather let him play with the VvV figures than my 25th figures, not because I hate the VvV figures(I do like them), but because I feel those could handle the rough play he'd be doing, while the 25th will be broken in a matter of minutes(I'm sure most Joe fans would just give kid the VvV figure because they hate it if they were in my position here).

 

- Some don't want 4" scale figures. They want 6" figures because they feel that's "The" scale to go with thanks to Marvel Legends and Mattel's various DC 6" lines(Comic book Batman, DCSH, DCUC, etc.). Little 4" figures no longer interest them, even if they have memories of playing G.I. Joe toys. With 6" scale, you can have more articulation, plus very good sculpts with detail and everything.

 

- Their collection is full of the older and orginial RAH toys. They have a huge collection based on this style. Buying 25th style verisons of these same characters(Which have superiour sculpts and articulation) may feel like a waste and not necessary. Plus, it would feel like they would have to start all over with their collection again but this time in the 25th style, and they aren't willing to do so. This theory is based on the current "For Marvel figures, it has to be 6". No way I'm starting back a Marvel collection in 4" scale" comments I've read on the Marvel messageboards.

 

- No matter how better sculpted or more articulated, there maybe some who will feel that the older figures are still better than the newer ones, thanks to memories of them playing the toys, the cartoon series, and/or comic books. I'm basing this theory on how some Transformers fans feel about the 1980's toys and the current toys. There are those who feel that the only true Transformers toys are the ones that were released during G1, and that anything else after that are inferor(This can include the current Classics/Univerise 2.0 line). This can be because of either the characters, how the characters are protrayed, the die-cast that the 1st 1984 toys used(Before they started to use plastic), the fact that the orginial toys were simplier to transform instead of being very hard like many of todays Transformers toys, the orignial cartoon series and/or comic book series influncing their decision, memories of playing their G1 TF toys, etc.

 

- Retail presense for the 25th line isn't the same compared to the orginial line. That said, I'm sure the upcoming Rise Of Cobra Movie toyline will have a presense in retail that will be almost similar to the orginal toyline, espeically if it's successful.

 

Anyways, these are just my theroies. I'm sure some sound crazy, but agian, they are just theories.

[JohnnyRebelV2]

The 25th figures are all around great. Nuff said'

[CLAM]

I have tons of RAH Joes and vehicles. And as a whole, considering everything RAH, I have to say that they still blow the 25th figs away. There is really no contest in my mind.

 

Yes, I have a lot of nostalgia for RAH, but at the same time, I never had a single complaint about RAH (except for the neon era with spring loaded weapons) even as a kid. I look at a RAH figure, with everything they come with and the unique designs of each, and I can't really see any room for improvement. I mean, I believe that Hasbro made the right decisions nearly every time with RAH figures. They went all out and went for quality everytime they made a figure or vehicle. You can tell that they actually put thought and care into each figure. Everything always fit right, the paint was never sloppy, etc etc.... I still have almost all of my original figures from when I was hella little and played with them everyday, everywhere. I honestly had maybe 3-5 broken thumbs, 1-2 broken crotches, out of hundreds of figures.

 

 

Now, when the 25th figures rolled out, I bought each one TWICE (one for MOC and one for opening). I initially like them, but then I quickly soured on them because of soooo many inexplicable problems with the figures. I do like them, some of them I really like.. but at the same time, without the nostalgia factor, I probably wouldn't collect this line at all.

Hasbro has just made an awful lot of mistakes that are really hurting this line.

A few off the top of my head:

 

1. The price- they started at 4.88, which was great. Then they jumped to 7 bucks, while the price of oil has actually gone down. I don't think most are worth 7 bucks, and definitely not 8.

 

2. The construction- I really hate the 25th construction. I don't understand why these figures have such a terrible torso design. Why don't the figures still have the RAH construction? These guys desperately need some belt-line articulation, not that useless and unsightly nipple line joint. They would also be better with a screw in the back so that you could still take them apart. As is, it is now impossible to switch the legs from one figure to another because the pants and shirts are inseparable. Without the screw in the back, we also had to get the head that pops on that ball. This means that 25th heads can only look good from straight on, if you look at them from the side or behind they look like hollow masks.

 

3. Articulation - While the double knee, ankle, and wrist joints are nice additions, Hasbro still found a way to work in some nonsense into other joints. That elbro is junk. It is less functional than the RAH arms from 25 years ago! They should have left it at a normal elbow, and a swivel bicep. Or went ahead with double elbows. It was also odd how the early figures couldn't sit down with their legs straight ahead. I mean really, how does that problem get past the design stage without somebody at Hasbro fixing it? As I said before, the torso articulation and the head/neck articulation also fall short of ancient designs.

 

4. Accessories- Accessories make GiJoe. But the 25th figures are seriously lacking in this department. Unique weapons and gear, and backpacks are standards for GiJoe. Far too often I get a 25th figure without all the gear he should have, without a backpack or even a hole for one, or with accessories that don't go with him well. And then sometimes they come with gear that they can't even wear or hold properly. My dang Blowtorch can barely wear his mask, and it looks like crap when it does stay on. I do really like the webgear and usable holsters though, bravo on that.

 

5. reuse- I understand that parts reuse is a necessity today, but man, make some good decisions with it. Duke arms for everybody? A total neglect of frankensteining parts to make the best possible figure way too often. Figures using the same heads and saying they are different people, c'mon!

 

 

anyhow.. I always picked up a RAH figure, slapped on all his gear, and was happy with him as can be. However, I don't think I have yet to pick up a 25th figure and think, "this is the best this figure can be, and as good as it should be."

 

 

Anyhow, I love RAH and consider it the best toyline ever. But, despite it's flaws, I do enjoy collecting the 25th line for the most part. I do have at least 2 of every figure released so far. However, I guess I will be getting a long break because I am all caught up on everything, and there won't be any new product until after the movie crap is gone.

[Hammerfel]

Thanks! That helped!

[Viper Hunter]

Think of ARAH G.I.Joe in the 80's & 90's as a Hollywood celebrity that became a big star and had some major hits and grew immediately in popularity...loved by many!

 

As they grew older and disappeared from the scene off and on over the years, they've aged a good bit and knowing they could never repeat the period of their biggest success, all over again, they decide to change things up in order to appeal to a younger crowd and they go in for a series of "face lifts" and various other PLASTIC surgeries to make something OLD new again?

 

What they end up with is a really sad and desperate attempt to be what they ONCE where, but age has hurt them in this effort and their attempts to apopear new and young again only wind up making them look "freaky" and even like a bit of an abomination of their previous selves. Think of ARAH as Micheal Jackson in his heyday of THRILLER and 25th anniversary Joes as his current self dressed up in the old outfits but looking extra freaky from all his fiddling around with something that went WAAAY overboard in trying to appeal to new audiences?

[xhairs]

i buy the ones i like and keep them moc. others i buy for there legs, gear, arms, & head. to use on my O RING CUSTOMS. there not bad but they should of had a back screw for customizes now i would love for them to have o rings. but what is killing it is all the repaints.

now the movie figs suck can we say a bad take on S6. with stupid spring loaded guns.

[DarthJoe]

Clam made a lot of good points that I agree with.

 

I collect both, but I'm finding I enjoy the 25th line MOC more than I do opened. They look great...but that's about it. RAH blows them away when it comes to playability.

[Devilbat]

You guys have made some excellent points.

 

For me, like others have said, I also feel the line has been hit-and-miss; some figures are durn-near perfect, and others just leave you scratching your head. Were it not for the nostalgia factor, I probably wouldn't bother at all, sadly. I'm like DarthJoe in that I enjoy collecting these thing MOC more than I do having a loose set. But ultimately I don't actively pursue the 25th line because I have a limited budget and there are simply other (better?) things I want more. I will look from time to time in stores at the Joes (when I actually find them), and if it's not on a mint card, I'll pass. It's just not a big priority for me right now. I'd rather devote my time and money into my first love, which is Star Wars. I honestly can't remember the last time I bought a 25th Joe. It may have been the case I bought back right before Christmas. It was the revision assortment that comes with Beachhead, Version 2 Snake-Eyes, Stalker, etc. My only regret is that I would have liked to get another Version 2 Snake-Eyes on a mint card-back; the one I have is not so much.

 

Right now though I'm focusing on Star Wars stuff. I just enjoy it more and I feel that what I collect (mainly the mini-busts) are just of a higher quality and something I can appreciate more. I will however admit to being intrigued by the upcoming G.I. Joe movie line of toys. I may pick up a few of those when they come out.

[Patrick A. Riley]

I have bought a few, but mainly for the cool new accessories which are the highlight of the line. I also had to get all the MASS Device packs to just for the MASS

 

I like that we finally got a "silver pads" Major Bludd and a cartoon shirt Ripper.

 

I simply don't like the look of them. The gap in the chest and the bobble head bother me. It's not that bad with figures like BAT, Nemesis and Wraith or ones with some sort of covering for the chest, but it really sticks out on the others. The fact that they're difficult to take apart is another negative (boil water and pop open with sharp objects?)

 

More articulation = more that could go wrong. It doesn't matter to me anyway if they can't bend at the waist.

 

But neither 25th or ARAH are perfect. I judge an ARAH figure's articulation by seeing if the hands can interlock directly above the head (the equivalent of real people touching their opposite elbows) Many cannot lock hands due to short or bulky arms (and the necessary design of the arms in the torso) or wide V-shaped torsos.

 

Money is another issue, but if I liked them, I would have found a way to collect them all. But if I sell the ones I have for sale, everything I've kept will be free

[Cobra Command]

Yeah I don't really care for the mid torso joint either. I especially hate all these overly bulked up vests like the Vipers, or Motor Viper's coming up. These would have looked sooooo much better molded on but that stupid torso joint makes it hard in that aspect. Not to mention they keep reusing the same ugly parts. When Flint came out I was scratching my head wondering how the thought it was acceptable to put a removable belt on top of a molded belt that seriously bulked up his waist for no reason. I'm glad some figures have been re-done, especially the Baroness who was so terrible. Overall I still like them but figures who were my favorites in RAH such as the Viper, get left on the shelf due to so many problems. Finding these suckers was a major frustration too!

[joenubb]

Another is accessories. Until the "tree guns" of the 90s, Most figures came with some pretty unique gear. When someone say's "Falcon's shotgun", you KNOW what they mean. He was the only figure to come with that shotgun.

 

 

I agree completely although Hasbro hasn't done it as much with the 25th as with line previous lines from 2002-2006. The thing that has gotten me to cut waaay back on my 25th collecting are all the reused parts. However that does make the figures I do get that much more exciting when they're all new.

[nonameshmo30]

We are talking about the 25 silver foil cover 3 3/4 joe's right. If so i loved them i wish they would have kept it going.

[ARROW]

Having out the peanut butter and the chocolate away, I'll relate why I prefer the 25th line over the original RAH figures.

 

-25th line have better, more heroic proportions to my eye.

--RAH figure all look like stunted Down-Syndrome patients.

-25th line figures have much more molded detail, and specifically anatomical detail.

-- Most RAH figures don't even have EARS! They have these little numbs or stumps on the sides of their heads.

-I can pose a 25th figure a lot better, for example: they can kneel realistically.

RAH figures cannot kneel realistically........they can sorta bend down or semi-squat.

-Every 25th figure can turn their wrists or forearms, and ankles to enhance the poses.

RAH figures can't.

-25th line gave us figures with holsters

RAH gave us broken thumbs.

-25th line gave us some weapons that actually do something, like Gung-Ho's grenade launcher, or Spirit's dart rifle.

RAH gave us more and different weapons, but that is all. They don't "do anything"--they are just solid lumps.

 

So, yea, my preference is for the 25th line over the RAH stuff. They are more intricate, pose-able, and detailed. However, I'm NOT going to collect as many as I did with the RAH stuff ( of which I have no figures left anymore) simply because I'm just not as interest in starting another new toy-line all over again. I'll pick and chose as I go--in a very selective manner ( for example: no Dreadnoks this time)

 

The one aspect of RAH I DO prefer over the 25th line are the vehicles--with some exceptions. The re-done versions in the 25th Line are, as hoped, proving to be superior to the originals in most ways.

All they have to do is move onto some of the large more impressive vehicles to totally win me over.