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are the fantastic four mutants???


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my husband and i are in a debate about this. he says they are not mutants because they are not born mutants. i say that i dont care if they are born mutants or become mutants somehow. a mutant is a mutant. and i think they are mutants. he says only xmen are mutants and i say he is wrong. what say you?

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Its all relative...by traditional definition, they are mutants because they gained their powers by undergoing a mutation. In the terms of the marvel universe, they are not true mutants, since true mutants are born and the FF were 'created'. Probably doesnt help at all, but thats my 1 1/2 cents.

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The are mutates--that is to say they acquire their powers after birth from a external catalyst.

A mutant is someone born with a mutant gene that manifests in them at some point in their life--usually at puberty ( according to how mutation works in the Marvel Universe).

Spiderman would also be a mutate, as would Captain America--because their physiology is altered after birth. Namor, though, is a mutant, because he was born with his distinct features.

They and the FF were, for all intents and purposes, normal humans before they gained their powers, where as the X-men already had the genetic code that would manifest their powers within them.

 

So anyone born with a X-gene or super powers is a likely a mutant, and anyone that acquires their powers via science means is a mutate.

Divine empowerment, as in Thor, is something else entirely.

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Namor is marvel's first and mightiest mutant!

 

 

by the way.. I think the FF are mutants, and Spiderman too.. etc..

 

 

any person who has had their genes/physiology changed as the result of a mutation, is a mutant.

 

"mutate" is a verb

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Actually, Clam, I think Arrow is right. I've seen the word "mutate" (noun) bandied about in several Marvel comics (e.g. the Savage Land mutates). So, according to Arrow's definition, Spiderman, Hulk, and the Fantastic Four would be considered mutates, while Namor and the X-men are mutants.

 

It would make sense that there is a difference because in the Marvel universe, people tend to hate or persecute mutants but at the same time accept the Fantastic Four and Captain America as superheroes (even though they are mutates by definition).

 

PharmV

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Actually, Clam, I think Arrow is right. I've seen the word "mutate" (noun) bandied about in several Marvel comics (e.g. the Savage Land mutates). So, according to Arrow's definition, Spiderman, Hulk, and the Fantastic Four would be considered mutates, while Namor and the X-men are mutants.

 

It would make sense that there is a difference because in the Marvel universe, people tend to hate or persecute mutants but at the same time accept the Fantastic Four and Captain America as superheroes (even though they are mutates by definition).

 

PharmV

 

 

I am just telling you what I know. And what I read in the American Heritage Dictionary, and Webster's Dictionary, etc.

 

I have looked this up a bunch of times, just to answer this question myself.

 

 

and I have actually heard Spiderman call himself a mutant many times (along with other characters too).

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Traditionally, there are four classes of super beings:

  1. Mutants are those who are born with their abilities or develop them naturally later in life (e.g., all of the X-men). In the DC universe, these are refered to as 'Metas'.
  2. Altered humans are those who gain powers or abilities through various circumstances (often accidentally) such as the fantastic four (cosmic storm), spiderman (radioactive spider bite), Captain America (super soldier syrum) and so forth.
  3. Aliens are those whose abilities are natural for their race, or whose powers result in one way or another from being non-terrestrial (e.g., superman, Thor, Galactus). Though alien in origin, technically, by this definition, the silver surfer would be an altered human.
  4. Finally, artificial super beings are those whose powers are derived from mystical or technological sources (e.g., Iron man, Batman, Dr. Strange, Juggernaut (at least in his original form)).

They may not always be refered to in the same way, and for all I know there may be some other distinctions by now, but this is how it's been since I can remember. Which is a long time.... :-(

 

So to awnser your question. The FF are DEFINATELY NOT MUTANTS. Not by any definition. they are Altered humans. Yes, they mutated, but their powers were gained through a cosmic event, not naturally.

 

Hope this helps!

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Actually, Clam, I think Arrow is right. I've seen the word "mutate" (noun) bandied about in several Marvel comics (e.g. the Savage Land mutates). So, according to Arrow's definition, Spiderman, Hulk, and the Fantastic Four would be considered mutates, while Namor and the X-men are mutants.

 

It would make sense that there is a difference because in the Marvel universe, people tend to hate or persecute mutants but at the same time accept the Fantastic Four and Captain America as superheroes (even though they are mutates by definition).

 

PharmV

 

Its also a term used in the Marvel Universe Handbooks, which is about official as Marvel gets.

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I agree with PJ and Arrow - And Filthy D spells it out perfectly, in fact, I remember that classification from the old Marvel Superheroes role playing game. However, I also see where the hangup is - the definition of 'mutant'. In this case, we are dealing with the Marvel Universe's characters' popular definition, whereupon a mutant is born with the X-gene. This definition has more racial significance and application than the Webster (real-world) definition. So I guess it really is a matter of whose perspective you are going by.

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The key thing is that a mutant in the Marvel Universe acquires their mutation from their parents' genes--who may or may not be mutants or have latent mutant genes themselves.

Mutants are established at birth because they have the X-gene. Anyone else can be classified differently as mutates, empowered/enhanced humans ( including divinely/magically empowered), aliens, and technologically assisted.

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when did he ever call himslef a mutant?

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I have read Spidey call himself a mutant several times in comics.. I could never recall the issues or whatever.. but I know I have seen it a few times when he was dealing with the X-men... or when he was transforming into the 6-armed spider monster and stuff.

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ok well maybe when he had a transformation thing goign on...but hes never called himself a mutant, ecept for houe of m storyline.

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ok well maybe when he had a transformation thing goign on...but hes never called himself a mutant, ecept for houe of m storyline.

 

 

@lol@

 

I am pretty sure I have seen him say it... I wouldn't bet money on it or anything, but I think I have seen him say he is one... one thing that I remember clearly is him saying to the X-men "us mutants have to stick together" or whatever.

 

I also remember that old lady... the spider lady or lady spider or whatever.. saying he is a mutant.

 

 

 

and outside of the marvel definition, we know he is a mutant because he has had his genes changed... thats just science

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I agree with PJ and Arrow - And Filthy D spells it out perfectly, in fact, I remember that classification from the old Marvel Superheroes role playing game.

 

Hehe... that's actually where I picked up that classification system!

 

@yipee@

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I haven't read every Spider-Man comic but I've never seen him call himself a mutant. I have seen him several times say that he is not a mutant. In the House of M, he lied by saying that he was a mutant so that he could pass.

 

And though Namor is often called the first mutant, wouldn't Apocalypse be the first mutant since he was born thousands of years before Namor?

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and outside of the marvel definition, we know he is a mutant because he has had his genes changed... thats just science

 

That is because his genes have mutated due to exposure to the radioactive spider bite, but not because of genetic mutation.

Trust me, there's a different there, and not just a semantic one.

If Peter Parker had been born with an X-gene and developed Spider-powers at puberty ( or by a internal genetic trigger) then Spiderman would indeed be a mutant--but that is not what happened. He acquired his powers by an external means ( not genetics) that altered his existing genes/DNA to accomodate spider powers.

His genes have mutated because of that, but he is a mutate, not a mutant. Any children he bears will likely be mutants because he can pass on the mutation to them.

Comprende'?

 

And though Namor is often called the first mutant, wouldn't Apocalypse be the first mutant since he was born thousands of years before Namor?

 

According to Marvel lore, you are right, Apocalypse is actually the first mutant. Kinda gets them all off to a bad start, eh?

And technically speaking, even Wolverine pre-dates Namor, because Logan manifested his powers before Namor was born ( Logan being born in the 1800's).

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and outside of the marvel definition, we know he is a mutant because he has had his genes changed... thats just science

 

That is because his genes have mutated due to exposure to the radioactive spider bite, but not because of genetic mutation.

Trust me, there's a different there, and not just a semantic one.

If Peter Parker had been born with an X-gene and developed Spider-powers at puberty ( or by a internal genetic trigger) then Spiderman would indeed be a mutant--but that is not what happened. He acquired his powers by an external means ( not genetics) that altered his existing genes/DNA to accomodate spider powers.

His genes have mutated because of that, but he is a mutate, not a mutant. Any children he bears will likely be mutants because he can pass on the mutation to them.

Comprende'?

 

And though Namor is often called the first mutant, wouldn't Apocalypse be the first mutant since he was born thousands of years before Namor?

 

According to Marvel lore, you are right, Apocalypse is actually the first mutant. Kinda gets them all off to a bad start, eh?

And technically speaking, even Wolverine pre-dates Namor, because Logan manifested his powers before Namor was born ( Logan being born in the 1800's).

 

 

yes yes, I never said Spidey had the x-gene... I am well aware of the x-gene.

 

but if you look up mutant in the real world... Spidey very much is a mutant. regardless of the cause of his mutation.

 

 

also, I know Apoc and Wolvie are older than Namor in terms of marvel age... I was just going by the taq-line his last full comic series had... "Marvel's First and Mightiest Mutant!"... because he was introduce in 1939, the X-men didn't come around until 1963 if I recall.

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Y'know, to simplify it all, consider Darwin. (NOT the dolphin from Seaquest DSV, the scientist)

 

There are essentially two types of mutation, forced and natural (or adaptive). A forced mutation (mutate, as it seems) would be someone like Spider-man, the FF, Hulk, etc to whom something has happened to cause mutation post-birth. Adaptive mutation is what occurs as a result of an organism (species) naturally adapting to a change in the environment in order to survive (become 'fitter'). These would be the 'born-withs', like the X-Men and such.

 

Essentially, this is what has been said here - I figure maybe a more textbook perspective might help. In this light, Wolverine can be seen as both types, as he was born with his crazy healing ability, and was altered with the introduction of the adamantium. (put the whammy on his power, keeping him from becoming the fully realized feral beast we saw after Mags yanked out the metal)

 

As for Namor, yes, he is toted as the first in publishing chronology only, not in MU history.

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Namor is an odd case, since he is not only a mutant, but a mutant hybrid.

 

Silver Surfer is a mutate alien, becuase he gained his powers after birth, but his previous abilities were normal to his race.

 

Spider-Man is NOT a mutant. He IS a mutate. Spider-Girl on the other hand, could be a mutant, depending on which definition you use.

1. Born with the X-Gene.

2. Born with powers.

 

In X-23's case, she is just a clone of a mutant, therfore being a mutant herself.

In Ben Reilly's case, it's a little more complicated. He wasn't technically "born" at all, but he did come into existence with his powers, therefore he could be considered a mutant, but again, that depends on your undertsnading of mutant.

 

The bottom line is the FF are NOT mutants. They ARE mutates.

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