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Should Superman movies keep the theme?


Dragonrider1227
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I liked Routh as well, for what little dialogue he was given he shined as Superman and can definitely grow in the role. However

I think they should get another director who truly does understand Superman, to me Singer isn't the one for that character. IMO

Singer painted himself to much into a corner because of his lack of originality by making it a loose sequel rather than start

fresh like Nolan did, he also anchored Superman by introducing an illegitimate child into the mix, and simply dropping him will

just be a very lazy not to mention be a clear indicator that Singer should have never introduced him in the first place.

 

I suppose if I look at it as Singer's doing that Superman had a kid, that alone is almost grounds enough to get rid of him. And I'd much prefer Routh stay than Singer, though I think he's a capable director. I liked X-Men and especially X-Men 2, so maybe I give him more credit than he deserves.

 

I just fear another reboot. It's been done so many times, and if you do it then Superman starts over, so that means it's even less likely we'll get a different villain. I'd love a new Superman movie to be on par with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (well, almost on par), but if we have to see another origin-story-and-then-fight-Lex film, I'll be bummed out.

 

I'm amazed the scores for Batman Begins and Dark Knight are getting much love here. They've easily the worst part of those movies. They're serviceable (ie the work when paired with the movie), but there's very little that's memorable about them. A truly great soundtrack should be able to stand on its' own in addition to enhancing the film they're attached to. I'm thinking some folks are so intensely fannish over Nolan's films that they refuse to believe any aspect of it is inferior to the prior Bat-films...they're wrong, at least in the soundtrack department. Elfman's score for Batman was great stuff, made even better when they retooled it for the animated series.

 

I bought the TDK soundtrack before the film came out, and I really just couldn't get into it. As you say, there's nothing memorable about it for me. It's not terrible by any means, but it's also not really worthy of such a great film. And when you compare it to almost any other Batman music, it pretty much falls off the radar completely.

 

Elfman's stuff and the animated stuff wouldn't have worked for Begins or TDK, but they were perfect for their respective films/shows.

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I suppose if I look at it as Singer's doing that Superman had a kid, that alone is almost grounds enough to get rid of him. And I'd much prefer Routh stay than Singer, though I think he's a capable director. I liked X-Men and especially X-Men 2, so maybe I give him more credit than he deserves.

 

I agree, Singer is a capable director, but not for Supes. One reason why I think X2 was so good was because it delved deeper into the tapestry of the mythos, virtually nothing

happened in the first X-Men, even though its a good film, but X2 was superior by far, its easily one of my favorite comic films. Singer also left more to explore whereas with SR

I can't really picture Superman going to PTA meetings or just continue sitting on the sidelines while his son calls another man dad, to me SR plays like a finale, if you catch my meaning.

 

 

 

I just fear another reboot. It's been done so many times, and if you do it then Superman starts over, so that means it's even less likely we'll get a different villain. I'd love a new Superman movie to be on par with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (well, almost on par), but if we have to see another origin-story-and-then-fight-Lex film, I'll be bummed out.

 

I hear you on that one, another film with Lex as the main villain would be pointless. The best thing a reboot can do is not make him the principle villain but the villain behind

the scenes, and then with each film increasing his role. IMO one of Singer's follies was making his Lex appear to much like Hackman's rather than suave manipulating villain he

has become in modern times.

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I agree, there are other baddies out there besides Lex. How about Brainiac, Darksied, Mongul, or even Parasite? We all know who Lex Luthor is, regardless of reboot or not, so maybe it's time for someone else to shine. (Although all my examples would require a serious amount of CG, no doubt, but you get the point)

 

Luthor is cool because he's human, someone we can all identify with on some level, but they can't seem to nail the character, other than in animated form, so they should move on.

 

Oh yeah, and I still advocate keeping the known theme. But this would be a good time to give a bad-guy theme as well, like the Imperial theme or the Klingon theme.

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The problem with most of Supermans villians is that they are too comic bookish and wouldn't work right in the real world

 

This is why Luthor is used more often

 

I think the only one from your list that could work would be Parasite

 

Those were the biggest guns that came to mind. I'm sure there are a ton more who might be more appropriate. Or maybe don't use anyone, and just have a story similar to JLU's Cadmus series, where his opponents are all normal people.

 

I would have said the Toyman, but everyone would have pounced on that one. Although, if he were portrayed like the character from the Saw series, that might be more relevant.

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I agree, there are other baddies out there besides Lex. How about Brainiac, Darksied, Mongul, or even Parasite? We all know who Lex Luthor is, regardless of reboot or not, so maybe it's time for someone else to shine. (Although all my examples would require a serious amount of CG, no doubt, but you get the point)

 

Luthor is cool because he's human, someone we can all identify with on some level, but they can't seem to nail the character, other than in animated form, so they should move on.

 

Oh yeah, and I still advocate keeping the known theme. But this would be a good time to give a bad-guy theme as well, like the Imperial theme or the Klingon theme.

 

Luthor being human is the reason I want them to stop using him in Superman movies. Superman is not Batman. And by that I mean he is not the type that would slug a human or superhuman. Superman will never punch Luthor and that I'm tired of. I think in ONE movie its cool that with all the power Supes has he can't stop a human with his powers but movie after movie its annoying. Luthor is done bring in someone Superman has to kick the crap out of. CGI or comic-bookish or whatever a good director and writer can take a character like Bat-mite and make him a fearsome creature. I believe that we need someone like Doomsday or Metallo or hell even a new version of Zod would work. I'm just tired of Superman not being able to do anything to Luthor. And while I'm on the subject of Superman they need to have Clark actually kick some crap too on Smallville instead of getting beaten up and coming up with a good idea at the last second. But yeah that is off subject.

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If they're going to revamp/reboot, they should get new music. You can't have it both ways. Either it's a reboot or it's not. If you have things that remind everyone of the old films, you're defeating yourself and your goal.

 

I think they could get by without it if they come up with something like the Superman animated series theme song. It seemed like it was influenced by John Williams' score, but it was unique and still sounded like and was worthy of Superman.

 

I also liked Brandon Routh and would prefer they stick with him. Personally, my preference would be they stick with Routh, Singer, and the same stuff from Superman Returns; just let him do what he did with the second X-Men movie (proof Singer's capable of making a great film with good action and story). Don't start over yet again. We've watched the origin enough times, and Singer laid good ground work (just maybe drop Supes' son the way they dropped Storm's accent from X-Men to X-Men 2).

 

That's what I think too. Keeping the old score will make audience to make connections with the previous movies. Not that it's a bad thing in general but that's not what WB is aiming for. They are trying to reboot/revamp the Superman franchise to cash in more and more $$$

 

Same with Batman. No matter how good Danny Elfman's Batman theme was, Batman Begins had to use new music because it's an entirely different film and good music doesnt mean it can fit every movie.

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I agree, there are other baddies out there besides Lex. How about Brainiac, Darksied, Mongul, or even Parasite? We all know who Lex Luthor is, regardless of reboot or not, so maybe it's time for someone else to shine. (Although all my examples would require a serious amount of CG, no doubt, but you get the point)

 

Luthor is cool because he's human, someone we can all identify with on some level, but they can't seem to nail the character, other than in animated form, so they should move on.

 

Oh yeah, and I still advocate keeping the known theme. But this would be a good time to give a bad-guy theme as well, like the Imperial theme or the Klingon theme.

 

Luthor being human is the reason I want them to stop using him in Superman movies. Superman is not Batman. And by that I mean he is not the type that would slug a human or superhuman. Superman will never punch Luthor and that I'm tired of. I think in ONE movie its cool that with all the power Supes has he can't stop a human with his powers but movie after movie its annoying. Luthor is done bring in someone Superman has to kick the crap out of. CGI or comic-bookish or whatever a good director and writer can take a character like Bat-mite and make him a fearsome creature. I believe that we need someone like Doomsday or Metallo or hell even a new version of Zod would work. I'm just tired of Superman not being able to do anything to Luthor. And while I'm on the subject of Superman they need to have Clark actually kick some crap too on Smallville instead of getting beaten up and coming up with a good idea at the last second. But yeah that is off subject.

 

Lex is a great foil because even though Supes has all these powers that make him virtually a god, here's this human whose intellegence alone makes him a threat. The only way to really stop him is to kill him. And Supes won't do that. Sure we'd all like to see a huge blowout between Superman and someone who could take it, but you don't want another Nuclear Man, do you?

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The problem with most of SDupermans villians is that they are too comic bookish and wouldn't work right in the real world

 

This is why Luthor is used more often

 

I think the only one from your list that could work would be Parasite

 

But Wheeljack, isn't that what Superman is? a comic book hero? In the era of digital effects

creating these classic foes wouldn't be a huge issue, so why not take advantage of that? Superman

and his foes will require a less consideration for realism and more imagination, realism can work

with Batman however with Superman I think one should be allowed to go a bit wild but keep it

within moderation. Keep in mind I'm all for Luthor, he can work extremely well, as the master

manipulator if written and used properly.

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I agree, there are other baddies out there besides Lex. How about Brainiac, Darksied, Mongul, or even Parasite? We all know who Lex Luthor is, regardless of reboot or not, so maybe it's time for someone else to shine. (Although all my examples would require a serious amount of CG, no doubt, but you get the point)

 

Luthor is cool because he's human, someone we can all identify with on some level, but they can't seem to nail the character, other than in animated form, so they should move on.

 

Oh yeah, and I still advocate keeping the known theme. But this would be a good time to give a bad-guy theme as well, like the Imperial theme or the Klingon theme.

 

Luthor being human is the reason I want them to stop using him in Superman movies. Superman is not Batman. And by that I mean he is not the type that would slug a human or superhuman. Superman will never punch Luthor and that I'm tired of. I think in ONE movie its cool that with all the power Supes has he can't stop a human with his powers but movie after movie its annoying. Luthor is done bring in someone Superman has to kick the crap out of. CGI or comic-bookish or whatever a good director and writer can take a character like Bat-mite and make him a fearsome creature. I believe that we need someone like Doomsday or Metallo or hell even a new version of Zod would work. I'm just tired of Superman not being able to do anything to Luthor. And while I'm on the subject of Superman they need to have Clark actually kick some crap too on Smallville instead of getting beaten up and coming up with a good idea at the last second. But yeah that is off subject.

 

Lex is a great foil because even though Supes has all these powers that make him virtually a god, here's this human whose intellegence alone makes him a threat. The only way to really stop him is to kill him. And Supes won't do that. Sure we'd all like to see a huge blowout between Superman and someone who could take it, but you don't want another Nuclear Man, do you?

 

Lets be fair no one wants another Nuclear Man lol. But I still think that Luthor in so many movies and Superman versions as a/the big villain is annoying. Superman never does anything to him. Heck even Spidey webbed J Jonah's mouth shut a couple of times. We just need a good fight scene in the next Superman movie. Brainiac would be perfect, smart and durable. Its just frustrating to see a character with all these cool powers reduced to giving Luthor the old heat vision the desk lamp which explodes and sucks the energy from the Kryptonite ring trick or something similar (and its not like we haven't seen stranger things in Superman comics as a way to defeat Luthor) and then Luthor runs off with a smart comment and threat about his next scheme. Its just tiring. Especially in these movies. They spend all this money on a movie where the hero is reduced to hoping that someone kicks away the glowing rock is just silly. Give me a Superman movie where the bad guy is 300 feet in the air, knocks Supes to the ground. Supes gets up rips a girder out of a building. Super heats it with his eyes and then beats the bad guy with it. Give me action and less talking or in the case of Superman Returns anything other than that damn kid.

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The problem with most of Supermans villians is that they are too comic bookish and wouldn't work right in the real world

 

This is why Luthor is used more often

 

I think the only one from your list that could work would be Parasite

 

Those were the biggest guns that came to mind. I'm sure there are a ton more who might be more appropriate. Or maybe don't use anyone, and just have a story similar to JLU's Cadmus series, where his opponents are all normal people.

 

I would have said the Toyman, but everyone would have pounced on that one. Although, if he were portrayed like the character from the Saw series, that might be more relevant.

 

 

My problem with Toyman is that if you had him like the freak in SAW he would be compared to the Joker

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The problem with most of Supermans villians is that they are too comic bookish and wouldn't work right in the real world

 

This is why Luthor is used more often

 

I think the only one from your list that could work would be Parasite

 

Those were the biggest guns that came to mind. I'm sure there are a ton more who might be more appropriate. Or maybe don't use anyone, and just have a story similar to JLU's Cadmus series, where his opponents are all normal people.

 

I would have said the Toyman, but everyone would have pounced on that one. Although, if he were portrayed like the character from the Saw series, that might be more relevant.

 

 

My problem with Toyman is that if you had him like the freak in SAW he would be compared to the Joker

 

Is he not comparable to the Joker? I've gotta say if ever there was a bad guy character to play that role, it would be him.

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Folks saying most of Superman's villains are too "comic booky" should probably bear in mind that people are already accepting that aliens are out there if they're buying into a Superman movie at all. Given that a good number of Superman's villains are aliens as well, I don't think many of them would pose a problem. Brainiac, Doomsday, Mongul, Darkseid, Maxima, etc... etc...

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Folks saying most of Superman's villains are too "comic booky" should probably bear in mind that people are already accepting that aliens are out there if they're buying into a Superman movie at all. Given that a good number of Superman's villains are aliens as well, I don't think many of them would pose a problem. Brainiac, Doomsday, Mongul, Darkseid, Maxima, etc... etc...

 

 

Yes but filmmakers out there want to put realism into the movie

 

Take alook at the Transformers he wanted them to be more realistic by having them not to mass shift id size

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Darkside but who plays him how do you approach it from a filmmakers POV?

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The problem with most of Supermans villians is that they are too comic bookish and wouldn't work right in the real world

 

This is why Luthor is used more often

 

I think the only one from your list that could work would be Parasite

 

Those were the biggest guns that came to mind. I'm sure there are a ton more who might be more appropriate. Or maybe don't use anyone, and just have a story similar to JLU's Cadmus series, where his opponents are all normal people.

 

I would have said the Toyman, but everyone would have pounced on that one. Although, if he were portrayed like the character from the Saw series, that might be more relevant.

 

 

My problem with Toyman is that if you had him like the freak in SAW he would be compared to the Joker

 

Is he not comparable to the Joker? I've gotta say if ever there was a bad guy character to play that role, it would be him.

 

 

I'm not trying to fight you ...It's my opinion of Toyman

 

In some ways he does remind me of Joker

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Folks saying most of Superman's villains are too "comic booky" should probably bear in mind that people are already accepting that aliens are out there if they're buying into a Superman movie at all. Given that a good number of Superman's villains are aliens as well, I don't think many of them would pose a problem. Brainiac, Doomsday, Mongul, Darkseid, Maxima, etc... etc...

 

 

Yes but filmmakers out there want to put realism into the movie

 

Take alook at the Transformers he wanted them to be more realistic by having them not to mass shift id size

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Darkside but who plays him how do you approach it from a filmmakers POV?

 

But Superman himself doesn't lend for such realism, so a filmmaker would be intrinsically breaking all realism

with Superman as a character, they can't have it both ways.

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For one reason alone do you keep the Superman theme... JOHN WILLIAMS

 

Folks saying most of Superman's villains are too "comic booky" should probably bear in mind that people are already accepting that aliens are out there if they're buying into a Superman movie at all. Given that a good number of Superman's villains are aliens as well, I don't think many of them would pose a problem. Brainiac, Doomsday, Mongul, Darkseid, Maxima, etc... etc...

 

 

Yes but filmmakers out there want to put realism into the movie

 

Take alook at the Transformers he wanted them to be more realistic by having them not to mass shift id size

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Darkside but who plays him how do you approach it from a filmmakers POV?

 

But Superman himself doesn't lend for such realism, so a filmmaker would be intrinsically breaking all realism

with Superman as a character, they can't have it both ways.

 

It is the same with Transformers. They are freaking ALIEN robots! There is no sense of realism involved.

To quote a small green alien...

yodasmiliecu7.gif

and therefore you fail
(you being Hollywood)
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Actually Bay wanted them to look real so he came up with the idea if them looking alien

 

 

The question is would Darkside work in a real world situation?

 

Would he be CGI?

 

I think you're missing the point...because Superman is already "not a real world situation" you don't need the villains to fall completely into "real world situations." The real reason that many filmmakers try to inject more "realism" into their movies has less to do with suspension of disbelief and more to do with budgetary concerns, I'm betting. Still, little things like making Transformers look like they retain the same mass when they transform are an artistic choice that makes sense and does in fact make the situation seem a little more "realistic." But it's still a degree of realism within an already-fantastic setting. You don't question why Decepticons exist if you already know Autobots are out there. Audiences wouldn't question that other evil aliens with strange powers could exist if Superman's already there, either.

 

Personally, I don't think they'd use Darkseid...too many fanboy expectations and too easy to screw up. He'd likely end up looking far more like a grey skinned version of Mongul. (IE a semi-generic alien warlord). Darkseid is the kind of villain that'd almost have to be built up over multiple movies so that people could really "get" what he's all about.

 

But yeah, he'd probably be CGI to some extent. But some really good prosthetics could probably get most of the job done on their own (think Hellboy II style stuff).

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I'm not saying anything about Supes he has been on screen a bunch of times

 

I'm refering to his rougues gallery

 

Superman has worked onscreen but film makers now are different and want more realism

 

Although Singer did both Xmen and Superman he didn't want Storm to fly

 

Hell the closest of movies that could of used his rouges was in Superman 3 and 4 but they used made up old Adam West Batman type of villians such as Nuclear Man and the Computer people in 3

 

I never said it can't be done but I have heard filmakers complain that Supermans rouges are to cartoony

 

Thats what i'm trying to say

 

Too me Parasite could work if done right

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If it's a reboot, I'm pretty sure they'll use new theme music. Which as a fan of Williams' theme is fine by me, because his score is already iconic and I highly doubt that any composer TODAY could come up with anything nearly as memorable.

 

Heck, even today whenever I'm around a conversation that brings up Batman, most people's first inclination toward aping Batman's theme music is just like Homer Simpson's - "Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-BATMAN!!! Batman! Batman! Batman!". WB can darken the heck out of the character and it won't change the fact that the theme for the Adam West TV series is still universally remembered 40 years hence.

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Lex is a great foil because even though Supes has all these powers that make him virtually a god, here's this human whose intellegence alone makes him a threat. The only way to really stop him is to kill him. And Supes won't do that. Sure we'd all like to see a huge blowout between Superman and someone who could take it, but you don't want another Nuclear Man, do you?

Uh, actually I would like to see another Nuclear Man, I don't understand why this character gets a bad wrap. As a concept his is great, cloned from Superman with enhanced/slightly different powers. The execution was all wrong, but Superman 4 as a general concept was perfect. Also it showed just how SMART Lex Luthor can be, not a simple street thug portrayed in Singer's film.

 

Lets review Superman 4 from a comic based movie:

Lex Luthor again

Lex shows how brilliant he is by cloning Superman

A villian created to equal or surpass Superman

They fight around the globe

Superman actually gets cut and sick

Supes comes back and finds a way to stop the bad guy

 

Now, like I said the execution was ALL WRONG (ex. losing power when not in sunlight), but I like Nuclear Man and want a Movie Masters version that goes with the DCUC line, plus he should be revamped for the comics and done right. The character has potential.

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Darkseid can work, but the problem is that his scope is so big that its hard to tell his story and main theme of the movie in a 2 hour setting. Personally, I think they should make a New Gods movie based off the original concepts by Jack Kirby, I don't know what direction DC is taking these guys in now. A New Gods movie should come first then maybe intergrate Darkseid into a third or fourth Superman movie. They can do the New Gods pretty easy especially the landscape and the space ships with CGI, but the characters like Darkseid SHOULD NEVER BE CGI, its not a perfect technology yet when creating people, landscapes yes, buildings yes, environment yes, people NO. Darkseid should be done like Mr Hyde from LOEG, even today that character looks great next to say, the crappy CGI people in "I AM LEGEND".

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