Indiana Jones Rant

[Chopz]

Hasbro,

I have just finished reading the Indiana Jones Q&A on a few other sites ( Indianajonesccllector, cooltoyreview ) First I want to thank you Hasbro for showing us the Indy Jones wave for 2009. Now only after a few months of showing them to us you treat them like the Military treats Area 51. Dont talk about it and avoid the subject. How long have you guys known that you were going to cancel this line. You show us new stuff and then say "PSYCH" you dont need them..

What is this bulllcrap about not having enough interst in the line to make it an online exclusive. You make a Pimp Daddy Destro and a Cobra commander in suit both figures sell-out almost instanly online. But yet you cant do a few Indy exclusive online. PPPFFTTT!!!! Not enough online support my @$$. You could easily add this line to the Joes or Star Wars or even make an online exclusive and sell for about $15. If you dont make money from online exclusive Why did you offer BBTS the Desert and Artic packs?? I bet there is some sort of profit involved.

Were you not satisfied enough after killing Marvels Legends. And take a look at the Spidey 3 line " What a stupid move that was 4inches not compatible with any of the previous stuff..." Pretty soon with the way you are treating the Joe line they will be peg warmers. A bunch of crappy re-paints set on the shelf and you wonder why the consumer isnt buying them. It isnt us as a buyer killing a line, but you corporate goobers with the almighty dollar on your mind wondering how you can save a buck and make two.

I understand business and capitalism and at some times I even respect it. Well, here it goes You dont come out with the coolest Indy line in 2009 that you showed us, I will NOT be buying anything else from Hasbro. I spend about $300 a month on Hasbro stuff. My little amount my not make a difference in your corporate world, but it matters to me. If you need to save a buck so do I.....BTW the BMF falcon is dead in the water, so make a million more.

[ExultedUnicron]

I understand how you feel Chopz, I really do. I was so looking forward to the 2009 Raiders wave when I saw pics of them from SDCC. Then when i found that they'd only come out when sales picked up, I rushed out to go help sales from buying at my local stores, even going to places I very rarely go, like TRU.

 

Sure, Hasbro, like alot of companies these days is just after big profits. Afterall, take gaming news thats similar....

 

2 weeks ago, Rare teased us with Screens and even a download for music which they confirmed was a brand new Killer Instinct game. They kept up the teasing for a week, with screens, trailers and more...only for them to turn round and say "ha....we're not making it anymore....we're the gaming company, we're gonna tell YOU what we're making and you're gonna like it"

 

but i digress, look at it on the other side of the coin. Indy isn't a continuing line. Sure, its got small amounts of other media like comics, novels, games and TV shows just like Transformers and Star Wars, but the thing is, there's just so many varied cahracters in both star wars and transformers and even into GI Joe, that would be profitable, compared to a line like Indy thats only known by a small group of fans compared to the amount of Star Wars fans there is or TransFans or even Joe-a-holics.

 

Sure, we'd all love to see the Indy line continue and be profitable, but its only profitable while Indy is in the minds of the general public. Thats why Star Wars is always so big, Lucas is always making some new show, cartoon, game or whatever star wars related. Thats the big problem for Indy

[Chopz]

I do understand that the Indy line cant continie forever with limited figures to produce. I am ticked because of the excess teasing. You must admit the 2009 wave is the best looking and has the best figures in it.

I have also went out to buy extra figure. I got a closet of Indy figures I will be giving away during the holidays. But if hasbro wanted to please the fans they would work something out. Hasbro could easily sub-contract the line out to a small toy company that is able to produce small quanities figures. The figures would be higher priced, but still we would have figures. Its the story that Hasbro say "We cannot produce short run of figures with out making a profit." That is BULL!!! look at all the limited run and speciality figures hasbro does..

[ExultedUnicron]

thats very true. Its not because they can't, its more a case of they WON'T. I agree that the teasing has been a major problem I mean yeah, they've been teasing Raiders 09 since SDCC and they've been saying it in press releases ever since. Now seeing these amazing figures that even Kenner made in 82 and 83 is becoming alot less likely and now borderng on impossible.

[Chopz]

I know what I want my next question to be..Hasbro Is it hard to suck this bad or does it just come naturally??

Yes, I am bitter.....

[JFAK075]

Man, I feel your pain and couldn't agree more. I was SO looking forward to those new figures. I feel very fortunate to have gotten hold of the TOD figures at this point.

Hasbro should feel some shame, but they don't.

[Wheeljack35]

The line won't continue because Hasbro won't put the money oiut for a line as they see it that has hardly any collectors

[ExultedUnicron]

its true though, the majority slice of pie when it comes to sales figures of action figures is actually children. Although we collectors like to think its us who decide things, its not...its down to children. If the kids ain't buying it, it ain't gonna sell

[rherk]

I mostly agree with you especially how their greed is killing the GIJoe line. It started out so great but now they are making way to many repaints and taking too many short cuts. What pisses me off most is core characters such as Quick Kick could easily be sold on his own but the only way to get him is by buying a multi-pack with other pointless repaints that I have three times over already. Hasbro controls the majority of my favorite properties and all they have to do is treat them with respect and not over saturate the market with half ass products and repaints and they will keep their loyal fan base and support and in return they will get our hard earned money but I've already lost interest in much of the GI Joe line and am very picky with Transformers (I prefer sister company Takara's higher quality products even at a higher price point) Star Wars needs to take a long nap and the Indiana Jones line just needs to be capped off with what was shown at SDCC.

[Jmacq1]

First off: Hasbro can't subcontract the line to a "smaller manufacturer" unless Lucasfilm lets them. Plus, they'd have to find a smaller manufacturer that's willing to take on the line knowing that they're barely going to get any profit (after Hasbro and Lucasfilm take their cut), or sell figures at a ludicrous price (Are you really willing to pay say, $20-$25 for a single 3 3/4" Indy figure?)

 

Secondly: Exclusives like "Pimp Daddy" Destro and Suited Cobra Commander belong to a line that has a far larger collector base than Indiana Jones does. They're also repaints of existing tooling (ironically existing tooling for the Indiana Jones line in the Suited Cobra Commander's case), not brand new figures like some people are wanting. In fact, with a few exceptions most of Hasbro's exclusives are simply repaints and kitbashes of existing tooling. The Star Wars line occasionally gets "new tooling" exclusives, but they're arguably the most heavily collected line on the planet (and the tooling inevitably ends up getting re-used elsewhere in the line anyhow).

 

Last: If you doubt that the Indy collector base is small compared to others, just take a look at how active (or inactive) this particular board is in comparison to the others on here. Hasbro was of course hoping that the entire Star Wars and/or G.I. Joe collector base would hop on the Indiana Jones line en-masse. It didn't happen. I'm sorry for the folks that really did get into the line, as I know it's disappointing, but the "solutions" that are being offered don't really "cut both ways" (ie provide Hasbro a profit and get the collectors what they want).

 

I was almost certain that the first wave of 2009 would get pushed to a HTS.com exclusive, but now it's sounding like it's not appearing at all.

[Chopz]

Heres an alteritave to the SDCC 09 wave. Make it a ROLA multi-pack w/ a small diorama sell it throufh HTS and BBTS for $100, yes that high, use pre-existing molds for weapons. As a set they save money on packageing also run a pre-order for 3 months. Who would buy this??

German mechanic w/ wrench

Marion in derss W/torch

Thot W/luger

Sapio W/Torch

Indy in russian outfit W/rocket launcher

[OneAngryDwrf]

I have to say, I agree with just about everything listed above. I cannot and will not believe that there are is not enough interest in this line for it to continue. The reason there are still so many Raiders wave 1 figures on shelves is because they, for one, over saturated the market with them, and two, had the worst quality control & paint issues of any toyline launch I can think of in recent times. Both of these issues were caused by Hasbro, not the fans. Now, as far as the Crystal Skull line, I'm sure the polarizing nature of the film had to do with these not flying off the shelves. Hasbro was banking on the character of Mutt to be a relatable character for youngsters. Unfortunately, the end result was an addition to the franchise whom most of us can either take or leave. I suppose my issue with Hasbro is that they will invest a ton of time and money into a property when they feel like it. Someone mentioned above the GIJOE line. It's true they are making some really obscure characters via repaints that only the hardcore fans would truly appreciate or even recognize. But the worst is the Star Wars line. I cannot believe that there is enough fan interest to create every single droid or character that ever appeared on screen even for a split second, but there is no way to get the fans any more Indy stuff. Look at the comic packs for goodness sake. I think its great to have more characters than just Han, Luke or Vader, but some of these guys I've never heard of. Does anyone even read Star Wars comics? It's really frustrating because many of us have been waiting for these for so long, and there are so much potential for great playsets and vehicles. Heck, they could easily make the Motorcycle & Side car and have it play double duty for the GIJOE line. The same is true for almost any vehicle from the Indy-verse. I'm sure eventually we'll find out that there is more going on behind the scenes that Hasbro hasn't divulged to us, but it just makes this all the more disappointing. I love the Indiana Jones line... It just seems like Hasbro is the one that doesn't.

 

TKO the OAD

[Blackmada]

I have to say, I agree with just about everything listed above. I cannot and will not believe that there are is not enough interest in this line for it to continue. The reason there are still so many Raiders wave 1 figures on shelves is because they, for one, over saturated the market with them, and two, had the worst quality control & paint issues of any toyline launch I can think of in recent times. Both of these issues were caused by Hasbro, not the fans. Now, as far as the Crystal Skull line, I'm sure the polarizing nature of the film had to do with these not flying off the shelves. Hasbro was banking on the character of Mutt to be a relatable character for youngsters. Unfortunately, the end result was an addition to the franchise whom most of us can either take or leave. I suppose my issue with Hasbro is that they will invest a ton of time and money into a property when they feel like it. Someone mentioned above the GIJOE line. It's true they are making some really obscure characters via repaints that only the hardcore fans would truly appreciate or even recognize. But the worst is the Star Wars line. I cannot believe that there is enough fan interest to create every single droid or character that ever appeared on screen even for a split second, but there is no way to get the fans any more Indy stuff. Look at the comic packs for goodness sake. I think its great to have more characters than just Han, Luke or Vader, but some of these guys I've never heard of. Does anyone even read Star Wars comics? It's really frustrating because many of us have been waiting for these for so long, and there are so much potential for great playsets and vehicles. Heck, they could easily make the Motorcycle & Side car and have it play double duty for the GIJOE line. The same is true for almost any vehicle from the Indy-verse. I'm sure eventually we'll find out that there is more going on behind the scenes that Hasbro hasn't divulged to us, but it just makes this all the more disappointing. I love the Indiana Jones line... It just seems like Hasbro is the one that doesn't.

 

TKO the OAD

Yes, I read the Star Wars comics and I read the novels. I am a fan who pushes Hasbro to make these Expanded Universe guys and there is alot of others that support this too. We are out here. (this one sentence was only directed at you OneAngryDwrf, the rest is for everyone)

 

 

Star Wars is way bigger than Indiana Jones, it always has been so it has a bigger fan base. I know there are some hardcore Indy fans but you can't compare Star Wars to Indy and say they are anywhere close to each other when it comes to the number of fans each have. The Star Wars forum is just about dead here but in other places like Rebelscum it is alive and well. For some reason the TNI Star Wars forums have never been very alive even during a movie year.

 

I think the blame for the Indy toys failure lies with many factors.

 

One is Hasbro had bad quality control at first and I'm sure that hurt the line, some, but not enough to really hurt it to the point that it would not last. There could have been a bigger fan base at first but I'm sure some backed out right when they saw the paint jobs.

 

Two is the bad case ratios. Hasbro should have adjusted the future cases so that the Indy and Mutt figures would not get as out of control as they have. Probably the reason Hasbro did not change them was because of pressure from retailers to keep cranking out Indy and Mutt because retailers always want those big selling characters more than anything else. Looking at the Star Wars line and even GI Joe, Hasbro only rereleases figures when there is a demadn for them from fans. Not because they "feel" like it. I don't see any fan demand for more Indy and Mutts though but yet they keep coming. Either whoever was in charge of this part of the Indy line was just dumb or there was another reason for it, I say the retailers.

 

Three is the retailers. They are the ones that place the orders with Hasbro and Hasbro just gives them what they want. the retailers are the ones with the responsibility to sell them once they have them, not Hasbro. Retailers over ordered the first few waves. They ordered way more than was needed and then restocked the same thing again preventing new figures and waves from having shelf space and in return making it difficult for us to find them. Hasbro and other toy companies could limit the retailers but the risk making the retailers mad and risk the retailers not ordering anything from them in the future. Hasbro has been better at placing limits on the Star Wars toys for the last two movies ad Clone Wars. The store displays were much smaller than they were for Episode 1 and this was because Hasbro kept it frm getting out of control. In an instance like that Hasbro can get away with it because toys for a Star Wars movie are too good to pass up because the stores can't get thier way.

 

Four is the new movie. It did not do as well as it was expected to do and it was the driving force behind the toy line. The movie does bad so the toy line does bad. The movie needed to do good to sell the toys from all of the Indy films not just the new one. The new movie did not spark the interest it needed to for the whole franchise.

 

Five is the kids. Kids did not get into the new movie or more importantly Mutt who was supposed to draw the kids in. The support from kids was not there. They were supposed to be the ones mainly buying up therse Indy and Mutt figures and it never happened. These toy whips were made just for kids and they are not moving either. Usually things like that are big sellers for retailers, like lightsabers.

 

The one place the blame should not be put on is us, the older fans and collectors that really wanted these. We did all we could. It just was not enough by itself. We purchased what we wanted. We supported the line. We wanted it to go longer. We took part in Q&A's and made suggestions to help keep it going. There is nothing else that could have been expected of us.

 

It sucks that it did not work out but that's life. There is no point in comparing two or three very different toy lines with each other and try to find a reason why Indy should not have done better. Each toy line is different enough with different sized fan bases to compair them in a realistic manner. Blaming other lines like GI Joe or Star Wars or saying they work so why does Indy not work just sounds like being so desperate to blame something that the blame is being put on anything and everything. Blaming Hasbro is solely is like how some say Hasbro ruined the Marvel line and did the same with Indy. That is just silly. A big issue with the Marvel line was that it was dying before Hasbro got it. Marvel Comics is more at fault too for Hasbro getting the rights more than Hasbro is. Marvel Comics was the ones who decided to take the liscense away from Toybiz and give it to Hasbro. Hasbro did not steal it away or take it. Bottom line is Hasbro takes all of the flak for toy lines like Indy and Marvel not doing well because bitter fans don't know what else to do and it makes them feel better by bashing Hasbro. I can't think of any other logical reason why Hasbro would be blamed.

 

I might not come off as being too upset over the Indy line failing but I don't want anyone to think I am not dissapointed or never liked it to begin with. I have been getting these since the line started. I have figures and vehicles. I have multiples of army builders. I have hunted and shopped online. I have spent alot of money on gas and shipping charges online, ordering sometimes one figure at a time instead of waiting to get a whole set or wave and in doing so paying shipping rates over and over again. I went through that because I did like these and I wanted them. I still have not seen the Temple or Last Crusade figures. There are some that I really want too. I don't like it either that the Indy line is pretty much over and I am dissapointing but I am not going to sit around and #$#@# about it and call toy companies and other toy lines names and make up lame exuses because of it.

 

The reasons it failed are right in front of us we just have to open our eyes and see it.

[Valo487]

One other thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned that I really think made a difference, is lack of articulation. These guys were in G. I. Joe scale and the vehicles are sweet, I love the vehicles. But I never bought one figure, because they can't move the same way the Joes can, and when they come from the same company there's no excuse. I'd have loved to have Joe style german soldiers, and I could have used a lot of them as civilians or government types from foreign lands, but I am not going to spend the same amount I would for a Joe figure for an Indy figure that can't do what the others can. You guys have my utmost sympathy, I have had several lines end prematurely, but I feel like Hasbro missed a golden opportunity to draw in non Indy fans with a few minor changes.

 

Oh, and another thought I had, maybe everyone else hates Shia Lebouf as much as I do and thought his "bad@ss greaser" character was as ridiculous as I did. Maybe not. But come on, even stevens as the next Indy? Seriously??

[Blackmada]

They do have the same articualtion as the Star Wars figures. They really do go well with each other too. I think that is why there is the idea flaoting around to combine the Indy figures with Staw Wars. They are so similar in design and both are Lucas properties. Looking at them from the point of view that they are both Lucas woned makes more sense for them to match up with Star Wars instead of GI Joe.

[Valo487]

Oh yeah I agree, especially since they're both Lucasfilm properties, I just know personally I would have dropped a hundred or so or maybe even more on Indy figures if they were Joe compatible, as I have the vehicles because I can use them with my Joes, but can't justify buying the figures because they're lacking the articulation I want.

[OneAngryDwrf]

I totally understand that Star Wars is a bigger & ultimately more broad reaching license and franchise. And believe me, that I meant so disrespect whatsoever to any Star Wars loyalists. Truth be told I like the comic packs very much, and I also welcome more characters that are rarely seen to be immortalized in plastic. My issue is that it is frustrating that all of these rather obscure figures can see life, but the main characters from 3 iconic films have no chance of finding its audience. I agree it probably futile and useless to debate and theorize the reasons why this is or what could have been better. Ultimately, it will probably just come down to numbers and dollar signs. It just seems to me that Hasbro won't even entertain that idea of making any of this product available through any other avenues. I mean, we are talking about the same company that made GIJOE a direct to consumer product when Valor vs. Venom ran out of steam and they wanted to go in the Sigma Six direction. From the looks of it, it kept the 3 3/4 line alive for collector's and then gave them the opportunity to tool up and take many of us by storm with the 25th anniversary line. Who knows? Maybe the DTC experiment didn't work out as well as it seems, and there were lessons learned. I do know this, though. Mattel's Masters of the Universe line ultimately died at retail, yet the line is being relaunched as an online exclusive through their collector oriented website. Maybe it's apples and oranges, but it is a solution that seems to have no backing.

 

Again, sorry Star Wars fans. I got a little worked up when I wrote my original post. Personally, I do really like the Star Wars toys. I just hate that Indy can't seem to get the same treatment...

 

What will be, will be I guess.

 

 

 

TKO the OAD

[ExultedUnicron]

In some ways, an online exclusive set works better than a retail product. Sure, you lose out on the potential high volume of sales from retail stores, but when online, you're reaching your target audience.

 

However, BlackMada's right.....we can say that Indy failed due to Star Wars, GI Joe or Transformers till we're blue in the face, but its not correct....its down to what seemed like a good idea on paper, failed miserably in reality because of certain factors which we've addressed, like the movie not hitting the audience figures it intended and sucj

[Valo487]

It would be cool if they did an Indiana Jones DTC line for you guys, but the Joe example doesn't spell a bright future. Part of it was that people had moved on from Joe by that point in the line, and the figures they were offering were far from inspiring in a lot of cases. Case in point, wave four is just now being pre-ordered after a hiatus of a few years at ridiculous prices. It might happen, but I doubt it will leave you guys satisfied in the end.

[ExultedUnicron]

In all honesty, I'm happy with what we have and we've had so far. Sure, we haven't really had any proper indy toys since 85s LJN Temple of Doom figures. But still, the new Hasbro ones are really detailed and are what I'd expect from Hasbro these days

[Blackmada]

I think the DTC Joes did really bad and that is why Hasbro will not do the same with Indy. At first it was a good idea and the first few waves were somewhat of a hit. Then they got cheap looking and did not sell as many. Before you knew it they were not just exclusive to the Hasbrotoyshop and they were available to other online stores. After that they were showing up in TRU even. All of the other stores could not even sell them that well either. Then the last DTC wave was cancelled.

 

Hasbro probably looks at it like if GI Joe could not make it that way then Indy won't either. They would have to cut production so low that it would not be worth it.

 

Plus the issue of Hasbro not owning Indy like they do GI Joe. They could invest more into GI Joe to try and make an online only line work but they still have to give a huge chunk of the Indy profits away since they don't 100% own that. They would just not make enough money to do it.

 

They would do better to try and get TRU to carry the line exclusively but we already know the retailer support is not there so that idea won't work either.

 

Maybe if another Indy film is made they could try again and try to get things working better that time around. They could do figures for the new film and at least put out that other Raiders wave. Who knows how long we would have to wait though or if another film will get made or if Hasbro could get the rights for it again.

[Jmacq1]

Actually, from what I understand the problem with at least the first wave of DTC was that they were produced in numbers that nearly matched a full retail release, then tried to sell only online. Even after Hasbro dumped their backstock onto TRU, it took months for the figures to get off shelves (though the vehicles did reasonably well from what I saw).

 

I suspect it was a case of Hasbro having already started production on them when retailers dumped the line.

[ExultedUnicron]

I know the DTC wave was in production not long after DTC wave 3. I had the preorder up with JoeHQ. Hasbro canned the line due to poor sales. I can understand that, since the DTC line started off great ad then went stale real quick...even getting a GI Joe fan from FHM couldn't save it

[pogoman]

this entire line was D.O.A

and the new movie didn't help things either.

[Wheeljack35]

The movie??

 

Hell no it was bad judgement on putting out the figures about a few weeks before the movie came out

 

What they should of done was to put out the Raiders ,TOD and Last Crusade figures months in advance when the anticipation for the new movie was high then they could of put oput the KOTCS figures alone on May 1st