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Got My Rattler


slewis
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dude!

 

My brother went to a Target today at 8:30 after dropping off my nephew at school. He calls me and says he just saw somebody walking to the register with the RATTLER !

 

They still had the Conquest, so he took it to the front to have them check the availability at other stores. The report confirmed that a nearbye store had 6 (meaning 3 of each), another had 4, and a third had 2.

 

So he races to the store with 6 because its only a few miles away from where he is at, while I check the other store that should have 4.

 

At the store with 4, they can't find them, and there is no backroom location. I'm like WTF!

 

My brother calls a few minutes later and tells me that ALL 6 are gone from the other store. Some guy came in and bought them all at 8am. The lady working toys asked him if he needed to buy them all, and he said, "Oh, they aren't for me, I am putting them on ebay"

 

 

ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

so anyways... by 8:45ish... all 4 stores had sold out.. I didn't realize people would be on these like hawks so much. :(

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Geez I hate scalpers

 

As soon as he said he was going to put them on ebay they should of limited his amount

 

Sorry hearing this makes me want to plant my foot up his ass

 

 

Here's the thing though...........why should a retailer care one whit about what the customer does with the stuff after they buy it--and restrict/limit how much they sell to a given customer??

He's not undercutting them, not competing with them.

He buying something from them at the price they offer and claiming he's going to resell/auction for a higher price on his own.

The retailer in this case still holds all the "competitive" lures and advantages they had to begin with AND they made a sale of a whole allotment to boot.

Isn't that the objective of every retailer???

 

Hey, he could have said he was going to give them away to charity, or use them in a porno movie......or keep them in a closet until the day he dies.

None of those matter anymore or less than him saying he's "gonna sell them on Ebay". Once they agree to complete the sale- he can do whatever he wants with the stuff.

 

Putting a restriction or limits on him means that you and I should ALSO be asked what we intend to do with our purchases and judged in a similar fashion.

It'd not be fair for us either.

 

And he makes it so that legitimate collectors are either not helped or treated poorly by retail employees.....

 

How so?

 

The assumption people make is that he's rude when he buys the stuff. Not everyone is that way.

The lady that asked him if he needed to buy all of them could have, by law, declined the sale of all of them but she did not--she went through with the sale.

That says the agreement to purchase fit within the guidelines that retailer has to make a sale. He did not say he was buying them to take across the street to a competitor--something that is usual grounds to decline a sale. Ebay is not a threat to that retailer, so they don't care if a customer choose to put their bought goods on Ebay for resale. He's entitled to do it, and by selling him those goods, they've just clarified that entitlement--they have no reason to do otherwise.

Unless the seller or their agent has specific terms to the sale ( like those found with computer software) the purchaser is free to use the item as they will--including reselling it.

 

To a retailer, unless the buyer is rude..........making a sale is ALL they care about. A retailer doesn't give a #$@# if you and I are a "legitimate collector"--they only care if we are legitimate customers.

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Geez I hate scalpers

 

As soon as he said he was going to put them on ebay they should of limited his amount

 

Sorry hearing this makes me want to plant my foot up his ass

 

 

Here's the thing though...........why should a retailer care one whit about what the customer does with the stuff after they buy it--and restrict/limit how much they sell to a given customer??

He's not undercutting them, not competing with them.

He buying something from them at the price they offer and claiming he's going to resell/auction for a higher price on his own.

The retailer in this case still holds all the "competitive" lures and advantages they had to begin with AND they made a sale of a whole allotment to boot.

Isn't that the objective of every retailer???

 

Hey, he could have said he was going to give them away to charity, or use them in a porno movie......or keep them in a closet until the day he dies.

None of those matter anymore or less than him saying he's "gonna sell them on Ebay". Once they agree to complete the sale- he can do whatever he wants with the stuff.

 

Putting a restriction or limits on him means that you and I should ALSO be asked what we intend to do with our purchases and judged in a similar fashion.

It'd not be fair for us either.

 

And he makes it so that legitimate collectors are either not helped or treated poorly by retail employees.....

 

How so?

 

The assumption people make is that he's rude when he buys the stuff. Not everyone is that way.

The lady that asked him if he needed to buy all of them could have, by law, declined the sale of all of them but she did not--she went through with the sale.

That says the agreement to purchase fit within the guidelines that retailer has to make a sale. He did not say he was buying them to take across the street to a competitor--something that is usual grounds to decline a sale. Ebay is not a threat to that retailer, so they don't care if a customer choose to put their bought goods on Ebay for resale. He's entitled to do it, and by selling him those goods, they've just clarified that entitlement--they have no reason to do otherwise.

Unless the seller or their agent has specific terms to the sale ( like those found with computer software) the purchaser is free to use the item as they will--including reselling it.

 

To a retailer, unless the buyer is rude..........making a sale is ALL they care about. A retailer doesn't give a #$@# if you and I are a "legitimate collector"--they only care if we are legitimate customers.

 

 

Well, the lady in the toy department is not in charge of making the sale or not. She just stocks the shelves or whatever.

 

Anyhow, Target has in the past displayed a policy to protect collectors from scalpers. The LAVA Darth Vader was limited to ONE per customer.

 

So that shows that at least in some instances, Target just isn't a retailer who simply cares about making the sale.

 

And since these are exclusives too, they should put a limit on them in some fashion.

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Picked up a Rattler and a Conquest early Friday morning at my local Target.......I like both but I think I'm just going to keep them MIB. The packaging is really cool....especially for displaying. I still think they should be 19.99 but what can you do. Wasn't the JvC TRU Rattler like 14.99, I realize that was like 4-5 years ago but still.

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Got my planes this morning after about an day and a half's worth of phone tag all they had was one of each, and the conquest's box is pretty beat up, , but well worth the trouble, really great packaging, it seems like most stores will be getting 6 in, still an active dpci, so maybe more next week, happy hunting!

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Geez I hate scalpers

 

As soon as he said he was going to put them on ebay they should of limited his amount

 

Sorry hearing this makes me want to plant my foot up his ass

 

 

Here's the thing though...........why should a retailer care one whit about what the customer does with the stuff after they buy it--and restrict/limit how much they sell to a given customer??

He's not undercutting them, not competing with them.

 

 

Too make it fair for all they have or are suppossed to have 3x5 signs up stating that Coolectibles such as exclusives are limited in number

 

This is a rule that was implemented a few years ago

 

How do I know ARROW?

 

I work for Target

 

He should of been allowed one Rattler and one Conquest X30

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Too make it fair for all they have or are suppossed to have 3x5 signs up stating that Coolectibles such as exclusives are limited in number

 

This is a rule that was implemented a few years ago

 

How do I know ARROW?

 

I work for Target

 

He should of been allowed one Rattler and one Conquest X30

 

 

The 1st and only time I've ever seen Target enforce that was years ago for the Revenge of the Sith Star Wars figs. I've never seen another sign or policy about that since. Most newer Target employees would have no idea such a policy exists.

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Too make it fair for all they have or are suppossed to have 3x5 signs up stating that Coolectibles such as exclusives are limited in number

 

This is a rule that was implemented a few years ago

 

How do I know ARROW?

 

I work for Target

 

He should of been allowed one Rattler and one Conquest X30

 

 

The 1st and only time I've ever seen Target enforce that was years ago for the Revenge of the Sith Star Wars figs. I've never seen another sign or policy about that since. Most newer Target employees would have no idea such a policy exists.

 

 

It has been laxed ever since

 

But the policy is still there

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I got a rattler this morning on my break. We only got 1 of each this morning. I thought about getting the conquest too, but before I had time to think someone else came up and grabbed it. Even with that I'm really happy that I was able to get the Rattler. It brings back so many memories it's awesome...

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But the policy is still there

 

Yep, but the policy only applies if its enforced, right?

Otherwise its toothless and might as well not even be in place--which is pretty much what the above example is.

 

That's the nature of consumer/contract law.....the seller determines the conditions by which the goods are offered for sale, and the buyer either accepts or declines. If they want to restrict and limit something sold to an individual customer, they can.....and if they don't want to place any limits ( or enforce those limits) they can.

Once the offer to sell is made and accepted, and currency tendered in exchange, the deal is writ.

The "complaint" in this case, as in almost all of them, should not be on the buyer for buying up all the stuff, but on the SELLER for selling them all to one person--but the seller is within their rights to sell as they see fit. If the Target chain is not enforcing the "one to a customer" limit in this case, then there's nothing anyone can do about save trying to be "johnny-on-the-spot" before the next guy.

The problem with restricting the sale of collectibles at a major retailer is they are one or two products amongst thousands of other products, and keeping track of them ( and just plain remembering them) is a big headache for staff. Which is probably why most don't bother unless a big loud message comes down from corporate.

C'est la vie.

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Anyhow, Target has in the past displayed a policy to protect collectors from scalpers. The LAVA Darth Vader was limited to ONE per customer.

 

So that shows that at least in some instances, Target just isn't a retailer who simply cares about making the sale.

 

And since these are exclusives too, they should put a limit on them in some fashion.

 

Well, here's the thing:

 

Will the employee that made the sale be punished for selling that stock to ONE person???

 

Nope.

 

Let's be realistic here, no-one will give at damn at that store, or at that chain. The sale was made, the money collected. End of story.

That's what is most important to them.

Not that........"oh, someone abided by policy!"--nope, someone made a sell and moved goods out of the store.

 

If the retailer has a policy in place, and enforces it............GREAT!

It can help collectors like you and me find stuff.

But if they do not have a policy, or choose not to enforce it..........pfft, there's nothing you or I can do about it--simply because those are not terms offered on the items for sale. That is what I'm saying.

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Think it's more like this:

Large distributor chains would obviously like less competition. The problem, at least as I see it, is that scalpers are partaking in the activity/business of distribution. Thus, they are supposed to be competing with Target and Wal-Mart and not competing against the buyers.

 

I also thought there were such things as regulations/policies limiting sales to someone buying to resell.

 

Consider it from an incentives perspective as well:

Legitimate distributor:

  1. Business license
  2. Business deductions
  3. You don't pay sales tax on inventory bought for resale
  4. Wholesalers/suppliers often provide you discounts in addition to that
  5. More supply available without having to drive all over for it

Scalping:

  1. Limited supply
  2. No discounts other than when Target's on sale, and pay sales tax
  3. Lower your own reputation amongst the very people you need as customers

 

It really makes no economic sense to anyone. Scalpers are just ignorant idiot adult collectors who don't understand how business works and making everyone suffer for it. I think policies by Target/Wal-Mart are ineffective because it's not really their problem and thus not up to them to solve it.

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I was in another Target today and the policy was up on every other peg in the action figure aisle updated a bit

 

It no longer talks about quantities but that they cannot hold thing for customers and The old can't look in the back for people still exists

 

And they talk about us employees grabbing things

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Think it's more like this:

Large distributor chains would obviously like less competition. The problem, at least as I see it, is that scalpers are partaking in the activity/business of distribution. Thus, they are supposed to be competing with Target and Wal-Mart and not competing against the buyers.

 

I also thought there were such things as regulations/policies limiting sales to someone buying to resell.

 

Consider it from an incentives perspective as well:

Legitimate distributor:

  1. Business license
  2. Business deductions
  3. You don't pay sales tax on inventory bought for resale
  4. Wholesalers/suppliers often provide you discounts in addition to that
  5. More supply available without having to drive all over for it

Scalping:

  1. Limited supply
  2. No discounts other than when Target's on sale, and pay sales tax
  3. Lower your own reputation amongst the very people you need as customers

 

It really makes no economic sense to anyone. Scalpers are just ignorant idiot adult collectors who don't understand how business works and making everyone suffer for it. I think policies by Target/Wal-Mart are ineffective because it's not really their problem and thus not up to them to solve it.

 

I can't wait to see Arrow's response to this. :)

 

-Kevin

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I still would like to know how a person.....without talking to said person......knows for sure that the grown man buying toys at Target is a scalper. Maybe they are just adult collectors army building Rattlers or Conquests.

 

If you get mad at scalpers for buying up all the exclusives or buying a ton of figures or vehicles....couldn't the same animosity be directed towards army-builders? Other than the fact that some people are selling and the latter is "hoarding" in a way. How can you get mad at one and not the other?

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Think it's more like this:

 

I think policies by Target/Wal-Mart are ineffective because it's not really their problem and thus not up to them to solve it.

 

I can't wait to see Arrow's response to this. :)

 

-Kevin

Heh. Why? I don't think I'm disagreeing with anything he's said in any way. When it comes down to it, it isn't the large distributor's problem. They aren't the ones who really suffer from one customer buying up all of an item. It only helps them sell more. Other buyers may not like it but if they were going to expend much effort in finding other sources to buy from, they would do so already.

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Large distributor chains would obviously like less competition. The problem, at least as I see it, is that scalpers are partaking in the activity/business of distribution. Thus, they are supposed to be competing with Target and Wal-Mart and not competing against the buyers.

 

No, they are not, because they are buying their goods from retailers like Walmart and Target--those large chains have already made their dollars off the goods bought up by scalpers. The goods being re-sold by scalpers are no-longer at their level and are considered after-market, hence there is no competition.

 

See, at all levels, scalpers are as entitled to buy as you and I--subject to the terms of sale at a given retailer. They are free to take the goods and resell them at whatever mark-up they choose.

There are NO conditions on these goods that state otherwise, and there probably never will be.

The unfortunate truth is that its the scalpers entitled "right" to do what they are doing--there is no law that applies to goods like toys that says otherwise.

 

However........for the rest of us......the ONLY legitimate grievance I can see "collectors" having with scalpers is that they frustrate collectors in terms of access and buying the items collectors seek.

That is the cornerstone problem here, all the other gripes are emotionally contrived and petty.

Scalpers can do what they do, do it legally, and thrive by doing so, and spoil the fun for others--and THAT is what bugs the heck out of people.

 

That is also why I advocate/preach about finding ways to circumvent scalpers entirely--something that is quite possible and practical.

 

 

It really makes no economic sense to anyone. Scalpers are just ignorant idiot adult collectors who don't understand how business works and making everyone suffer for it. I think policies by Target/Wal-Mart are ineffective because it's not really their problem and thus not up to them to solve it.

 

I know that, in Canada, if someone "scalping" toys declares their income to Revenue Canada--then their endeavours are considered "a business"--and they are entitled to all the benefits and deductions that apply to a business. There is NO distinction ( in Canada) regarding how a business is conducted, only that its an endeavour that shows a "reasonable expectation of profit".

I know of some scalpers that were making a tidy sum on the side reselling what toys they find at major retailers, and IF THEY WERE SMART, they declared that income.

If they are gaining a profit--and there's no reason they couldn't........I'd grudgingly consider them to pretty smart.

 

The difference between reselling from a retailer and selling from a wholesale distributor is one of margins. The retailer can sell at a lower price, based on the wholesale price they buy at to get their profit margin.

The scalper just buys and marks up based on the retail price they pay. Since they have bought up the supply ( we assume) in a given area......their mark-up stands as being the price to pay.

All the scalper does is offer the goods at a notch-higher ( or two or three) price, and they have their own profit margin.

They COULD go the legit route and seek a proper business license and purchase agreement from the same distributors........but why should they bother? They'd just be running up against the sellers they buy from, being fed from the same distribution chain--which would mean they'd have to contend with the major players ability to supply a greater volume of goods and with more clout to get a better wholesale price then a small retailer could.

There's clearly still enough impatient/idiot/ignorant marks out there that feel they have to buy from scalpers to feed the scalpers sales--because they walk into a Walmart/Target see the empty begs and get sucked up into the myth.

Of course, as I maintain........no-one is truly obligated to pay that price, or buy from that scalper IF they go about things in a smart/savvy manner.

That is why you do not find me bitching about scalpers--I just do not traffic in around them, and feel no need to.

 

I can't wait to see Arrow's response to this. smile.gif

 

-Kevin

 

I strive to not disappoint. ;)

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Large distributor chains would obviously like less competition. The problem, at least as I see it, is that scalpers are partaking in the activity/business of distribution. Thus, they are supposed to be competing with Target and Wal-Mart and not competing against the buyers.

 

No, they are not, because they are buying their goods from retailers like Walmart and Target--those large chains have already made their dollars off the goods bought up by scalpers. The goods being re-sold by scalpers are no-longer at their level and are considered after-market, hence there is no competition.

 

See, at all levels, scalpers are as entitled to buy as you and I--subject to the terms of sale at a given retailer. They are free to take the goods and resell them at whatever mark-up they choose.

There are NO conditions on these goods that state otherwise, and there probably never will be.

The unfortunate truth is that its the scalpers entitled "right" to do what they are doing--there is no law that applies to goods like toys that says otherwise.

 

 

However........for the rest of us......the ONLY legitimate grievance I can see "collectors" having with scalpers is that they frustrate collectors in terms of access and buying the items collectors seek.

That is the cornerstone problem here, all the other gripes are emotionally contrived and petty.

Scalpers can do what they do, do it legally, and thrive by doing so, and spoil the fun for others--and THAT is what bugs the heck out of people.

 

 

That is also why I advocate/preach about finding ways to circumvent scalpers entirely--something that is quite possible and practical.

 

 

It really makes no economic sense to anyone. Scalpers are just ignorant idiot adult collectors who don't understand how business works and making everyone suffer for it. I think policies by Target/Wal-Mart are ineffective because it's not really their problem and thus not up to them to solve it.

 

I know that, in Canada, if someone "scalping" toys declares their income to Revenue Canada--then their endeavours are considered "a business"--and they are entitled to all the benefits and deductions that apply to a business. There is NO distinction ( in Canada) regarding how a business is conducted, only that its an endeavour that shows a "reasonable expectation of profit".

I know of some scalpers that were making a tidy sum on the side reselling what toys they find at major retailers, and IF THEY WERE SMART, they declared that income.

If they are gaining a profit--and there's no reason they couldn't........I'd grudgingly consider them to pretty smart.

 

Hmm.. I do not think that is the case here (which I find rather surprising since I'd expect Canadian law to be lean more towards the side of the end consumer).

 

Here in the US, most income is subject to taxation -- anything exempt generally requires proof that it is so. So yes, scalpers here would also be regarded as businesses (as per Dick Cheney's offhand remark about people selling on eBay and not declaring their gains as taxable income) as long as it can be demonstrated as being for profit, which is at least 2 years of profit out of 5, I believe. (Otherwise, the IRS regards it as a hobby or hobby business and disallows business deductions available to actual businesses.)

 

A scalper who buys from the store here is, like you said, considered an consumer. That means they pay sales tax here like the rest of us. But a sole proprietor, or any other business entity, with a business license generally does NOT have to pay sales tax when buying from large-scale toy suppliers. They get this exemption so long as they charge sales tax to the end customer, make it available for sale, and do not hold the product for personal use (i.e. so long as they're in the business of retail sales). They can also get lower prices than those of us who buy small odd quantities.

 

So I dunno.. I think anything short of that is really just pretending at being a business. I'm not sure how smart that really is. It's like people who bought a stock shortly before the market top, making money on the Greater Fool Theory by selling it to the people who DO buy it at the top. The only mitigating factor that makes me shrug and just not really care all that much is that.. these are plastic toys. =)

 

Back to the issue at hand though, I do agree that it's most practical and productive to find ways to circumvent scalpers. Simply disliking it, regardless of its legitimacy, won't achieve much..

 

Of course, as I maintain........no-one is truly obligated to pay that price, or buy from that scalper IF they go about things in a smart/savvy manner.

Agreed. To be clear, my statements weren't born of some desire for justice for the poor, downtrodden toy collector against the evil scalper in a black hat twirling his moustache. While I can understand the frustration of shopping with scalpers out there (I think everyone here can), a collector becomes the victim of their own greed more than anything by caving in to the need to buy that hot item at absurd prices and only perpetuates the pattern.

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BTW guys, Target.com's "Find it at a Target Store" link is now showing availability by location. (Although I only noticed this after I'd lucked into finding them. Apologies if this is an old feature but this is the first time I've actually seen their site provide this info.) Good luck.

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However........for the rest of us......the ONLY legitimate grievance I can see "collectors" having with scalpers is that they frustrate collectors in terms of access and buying the items collectors seek.

That is the cornerstone problem here, all the other gripes are emotionally contrived and petty.

Scalpers can do what they do, do it legally, and thrive by doing so, and spoil the fun for others--and THAT is what bugs the heck out of people.

 

That is also why I advocate/preach about finding ways to circumvent scalpers entirely--something that is quite possible and practical.

 

The only true way to stop scalpers is if people stop buying from them..........his them in their wallet. Thats the only way.......unless you ID everyone and limit 1 of each whatever to a certain persons drivers license.....which would be a breach of privacy issue.......which would never happen because its really not that serious of an issue.

 

A store sees sales and that's about it.........plus if that was the case most scalpers would probably enlist their children or wives or friends to help them. (with the one item each policy) Its always gonna happen.......they will always find new ways of doing things. Its an evil of the collecting world that's a part of it.

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