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Redeeming Superboy/man-Prime

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I know Superman is an optimistic idealist, who expects and tries to only see the best out of people, but him thinking that they can redeem Superboy/man-Prime is completely delusional. There's no coming back from the depths of darkness and evil that he has descended. He just killed 20,000 guards on the prison planet, plus the billions of deaths he's responsible for. That's more improbable/impossible than redeeming Saddam Hussein, Tito, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin and Hitler, who all combined are responsible for less real deaths than Prime, and no one in or out of their right minds would seek to redeem them. It's just so absurdly, preposterously risible that it's ludicrous.

I mean, who does Superman think he is? God? Only Jesus could pull off forgiving, redeeming and forgetting what Prime has done, and the Messiah Superman ain't. Yeah, yeah, I know of all the symbolism between Supes and God/Jesus, but it's still far from the real deal. If Superman doesn't kill Prime, then, I hope they permanently kill Superman. Superman might be a goody-goody boy scout, but this is way too naive even for him.

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Gotta agree with you on this one. Even though I don't follow comics anymore, these kind of atrocities just can't go unpunished!! If he can't deliver the killing blow, step aside to one who will!!! Who do you think could???

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Well though, Punisher has killed tons of people and not all of them have been baby killers and rapists. Some are just low level mobsters who spend most of there time picking up protection money, eating Italian food, and playing poker. And the Punisher has been blessed by angels too. He has been redeemed and forgiven more often than not. But I agree its silly to try and redeem Prime. But if anyone is going to forgive him its going to be Superman. I mean if Green Arrow did it I doubt too many will care. So if the writers want to forgive Prime the only two characters that can pass an olive branch to the fans saying "Hey he is cool now, we promise, look who is forgiving him!" Its got to be Superman or Batman and Batman would prolly kill him given his crimes.

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I know Superman is an optimistic idealist, who expects and tries to only see the best out of people, but him thinking that they can redeem Superboy/man-Prime is completely delusional. There's no coming back from the depths of darkness and evil that he has descended. He just killed 20,000 guards on the prison planet, plus the billions of deaths he's responsible for. That's more improbable/impossible than redeeming Saddam Hussein, Tito, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin and Hitler, who all combined are responsible for less real deaths than Prime, and no one in or out of their right minds would seek to redeem them. It's just so absurdly, preposterously risible that it's ludicrous.

I mean, who does Superman think he is? God? Only Jesus could pull off forgiving, redeeming and forgetting what Prime has done, and the Messiah Superman ain't. Yeah, yeah, I know of all the symbolism between Supes and God/Jesus, but it's still far from the real deal. If Superman doesn't kill Prime, then, I hope they permanently kill Superman.

 

I hope the writers realize this mistake before they continue down this path. I'm sure there is a special jail or something that they can put prime in.

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Well though, Punisher has killed tons of people and not all of them have been baby killers and rapists. Some are just low level mobsters who spend most of there time picking up protection money, eating Italian food, and playing poker. And the Punisher has been blessed by angels too. He has been redeemed and forgiven more often than not. But I agree its silly to try and redeem Prime. But if anyone is going to forgive him its going to be Superman. I mean if Green Arrow did it I doubt too many will care. So if the writers want to forgive Prime the only two characters that can pass an olive branch to the fans saying "Hey he is cool now, we promise, look who is forgiving him!" Its got to be Superman or Batman and Batman would prolly kill him given his crimes.

 

In the defense of the Punisher, From someone who has read the Punisher for years, those low level criminals did more than just pick up protection money and eat Italian food. they were criminal who at least had to kill or hurt an innocent to be part of some gang or mafia. The Punisher has a strict code of honor that he learned in the Marines. He never fights were civilians are around, unless the bad guy takes a hostage, he goes out of his way not to kill or hurt cops and superheroes, he protects the innocent, and does deep investigation, recon, and other types of surveillance before killing someone or getting into a fire fight. You can't compare a vigilante who's family was killed to a villain like Prime. I know to people that don't usually don't read the punisher, think that he just runs in shoots up the place, but the training and planning are a huge part of the operations the Punisher pulls.

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To be fair, they did put prime in a special cell....on Oa, on permanent guard by dozens of green lanterns. But I think the point that Superman is trying to make in the Legion of 3 Worlds is that what they were doing before with prime just wasn't working, i.e. pummeling him into a pulp and throwing him into a jail cell, because he would just keep coming back, each violent outburst worse than the one before. The only real way to stop him permanently would be to rehabilitate him and because Superman believes in the innate good in everyone, he's willing to try just because of his experiences with prime from the first crisis. Granted, I don't think that this might entirely work, but I can understand why Superman would try this with Prime. We'll just have to see where Johns is going with this story, and I can guarantee you guys it'll be good. It won't go down like we think it will.

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Well though, Punisher has killed tons of people and not all of them have been baby killers and rapists. Some are just low level mobsters who spend most of there time picking up protection money, eating Italian food, and playing poker. And the Punisher has been blessed by angels too. He has been redeemed and forgiven more often than not. But I agree its silly to try and redeem Prime. But if anyone is going to forgive him its going to be Superman. I mean if Green Arrow did it I doubt too many will care. So if the writers want to forgive Prime the only two characters that can pass an olive branch to the fans saying "Hey he is cool now, we promise, look who is forgiving him!" Its got to be Superman or Batman and Batman would prolly kill him given his crimes.

 

In the defense of the Punisher, From someone who has read the Punisher for years, those low level criminals did more than just pick up protection money and eat Italian food. they were criminal who at least had to kill or hurt an innocent to be part of some gang or mafia. The Punisher has a strict code of honor that he learned in the Marines. He never fights were civilians are around, unless the bad guy takes a hostage, he goes out of his way not to kill or hurt cops and superheroes, he protects the innocent, and does deep investigation, recon, and other types of surveillance before killing someone or getting into a fire fight. You can't compare a vigilante who's family was killed to a villain like Prime. I know to people that don't usually don't read the punisher, think that he just runs in shoots up the place, but the training and planning are a huge part of the operations the Punisher pulls.

 

I have an issue where he pretty much knocks out Spiderman and uses him as bait so he can get his mark. I think that strict code of honor is strict with some writers and not with others. Which is the way it is with most characters.

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while i do think he's far beyond redemption i can see where Clark would want to try, first off as said before Clark is essentially the "light" side of superheroes, he wants to believe theres always a good side to people, and to be honest Prime IS him so he doesn't want to believe that he is capable of what the kid has done and even more so that he isn't able to be redeemed. but fiction is full of BS redemptions so Prime will probably become "good" again, i mean hell nobody seems to care that Darth Vader got to go to Jedi heaven after killing countless millions of people just by killing an old man.....

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Well though, Punisher has killed tons of people and not all of them have been baby killers and rapists. Some are just low level mobsters who spend most of there time picking up protection money, eating Italian food, and playing poker. And the Punisher has been blessed by angels too. He has been redeemed and forgiven more often than not. But I agree its silly to try and redeem Prime. But if anyone is going to forgive him its going to be Superman. I mean if Green Arrow did it I doubt too many will care. So if the writers want to forgive Prime the only two characters that can pass an olive branch to the fans saying "Hey he is cool now, we promise, look who is forgiving him!" Its got to be Superman or Batman and Batman would prolly kill him given his crimes.

 

In the defense of the Punisher, From someone who has read the Punisher for years, those low level criminals did more than just pick up protection money and eat Italian food. they were criminal who at least had to kill or hurt an innocent to be part of some gang or mafia. The Punisher has a strict code of honor that he learned in the Marines. He never fights were civilians are around, unless the bad guy takes a hostage, he goes out of his way not to kill or hurt cops and superheroes, he protects the innocent, and does deep investigation, recon, and other types of surveillance before killing someone or getting into a fire fight. You can't compare a vigilante who's family was killed to a villain like Prime. I know to people that don't usually don't read the punisher, think that he just runs in shoots up the place, but the training and planning are a huge part of the operations the Punisher pulls.

 

I have an issue where he pretty much knocks out Spiderman and uses him as bait so he can get his mark. I think that strict code of honor is strict with some writers and not with others. Which is the way it is with most characters.

 

 

True stuff various with writers. But Spiderman can handle himself pretty good, and at the end Spidey was not dead. Ennis has been pretty good with keeping his code in check for the past 8 years or so. Just saying that you can't really compare a good guy vigilante with a villain like prime.

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Just saying that you can't really compare a good guy vigilante with a villain like prime.

 

sure you can, they are both friggin nuts. it's just that Prime has more power so he just makes a bigger mess.

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Which story line/title is this happening in? The only Superman book I read is All Star Supes.....

FINAL CRISIS: LEGION OF THREE WORLDS

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I was stumped also by Superman's remark, I agree with an earlier post about it probably won't happen how we think. I actually prefer Superboy Prime as an unstoppable villain, I mean he is funny/crazy/ and insanely powerful, it takes hundreds of the most powerful heroes in the galaxy and he still walks away...he is great. I hope he isn't redeemed and we see more mahem from him in the future. I must hand it to DC they landed a solid hit with Superboy Prime.

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I don't think he will be redeemed. He could be the perfect evil match for Superman. That is the kind of bad guy Superman needs.

 

You gotta give credit to Superman for wanting to redeem Prime but I don't think he or anyone can and if that is the only sollution because he can't be stopped any other way they are screwed.

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Garth Ennis is known for not liking the conventional hero so Punisher using him as a shield is something he'd want him to do. Not only that, but he knew Spidey would live.

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Garth Ennis is known for not liking the conventional hero so Punisher using him as a shield is something he'd want him to do. Not only that, but he knew Spidey would live.

 

Well my point is that the Punisher is not exactly the most conventional hero who does things that could fall on either side of the fence of good and evil. While I think his heart is in the right place its prolly covered in mob blood and gun powder.

 

I really don't know if they will redeem Prime or not. If they do he could be the Punisher of DC. Crazy and taking care of business whether Superman likes it or not. But really if they wanted to do something cool Prime wouldn't redeem and instead just be bug nuts and continue to terrorize the universe and make Superman and hell throw in then entire JLA if you want to, to try to take down Prime. That could be a really entertaining story.

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How could he be the Punisher of the DC universe? Did Castle kill off random New Warriors? Because that's what Prime did with the random Teen Titans he killed.

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How could he be the Punisher of the DC universe? Did Castle kill off random New Warriors? Because that's what Prime did with the random Teen Titans he killed.

 

I mean if they redeem Prime don't make him like Superman make him like Punisher, playing outside of the regular superhero rules. Make him gritty and tough hero almost an antihero. Like Lobo or something. Just make him kick ass if they choose to redeem him.

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I was stumped also by Superman's remark, I agree with an earlier post about it probably won't happen how we think. I actually prefer Superboy Prime as an unstoppable villain, I mean he is funny/crazy/ and insanely powerful, it takes hundreds of the most powerful heroes in the galaxy and he still walks away...he is great. I hope he isn't redeemed and we see more mahem from him in the future. I must hand it to DC they landed a solid hit with Superboy Prime.

 

I agree Prime makes for one hell of a bad guy. The powers of Supes but with no restrictions on using them. I remember when he lost it and blasted the heads off some good guys, that's some serious bad. @firedevil@

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I'm just hoping DCD will put out a Superman Prime, in the Green Lantern line (or any really).....he would go great with the rest of the SinestroCorps.

 

SUPERMANPRIME002.jpg

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If Superman said, "we can't stop him. He'll just keep coming back, again and again so we have to kill him," we'd all be talking about how Superman could never say that let alone do that. So for him to say he have to redeem him really isn't out of character for Superman. He does see the innate good in people, and sometimes he sees it when it really isn't there but that's what has made the character so popular and a mainstay of American culture for over 70 years. Is it naive? Hells yeah! As written Superboy Prime is a twisted, evil version of Superman who is what we wanted Anakin Skywalker to be in the prequels. Sure he started off nice and all Superman-goodness but take away everyone he loves, even his home and he gets bent outta shape. He starts to see the world as in his way and he finds a mentor who shares his feelings, even though the mentor has his own plans. Eventually Superboy Prime turns in an act of emotion and becomes completely evil. How could he be redeemed? Take him back to when he became evil and stop it from happening altogether. You could kill him before he helped Superman-2 stop the Anti-Montior. You could stop him from killing the Titans and Superboy, helping him to see the error of his ways. But I do think it's either kill him or redeem him. There's no way to cage him.

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If Superman said, "we can't stop him. He'll just keep coming back, again and again so we have to kill him," we'd all be talking about how Superman could never say that let alone do that. So for him to say he have to redeem him really isn't out of character for Superman. He does see the innate good in people, and sometimes he sees it when it really isn't there but that's what has made the character so popular and a mainstay of American culture for over 70 years. Is it naive? Hells yeah! As written Superboy Prime is a twisted, evil version of Superman who is what we wanted Anakin Skywalker to be in the prequels. Sure he started off nice and all Superman-goodness but take away everyone he loves, even his home and he gets bent outta shape. He starts to see the world as in his way and he finds a mentor who shares his feelings, even though the mentor has his own plans. Eventually Superboy Prime turns in an act of emotion and becomes completely evil. How could he be redeemed? Take him back to when he became evil and stop it from happening altogether. You could kill him before he helped Superman-2 stop the Anti-Montior. You could stop him from killing the Titans and Superboy, helping him to see the error of his ways. But I do think it's either kill him or redeem him. There's no way to cage him.

 

I would love to see something like off the wall like Superman travel back in time and just kill baby Prime before he has a chance to get older.

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If Superman said, "we can't stop him. He'll just keep coming back, again and again so we have to kill him," we'd all be talking about how Superman could never say that let alone do that. So for him to say he have to redeem him really isn't out of character for Superman.
True, he would never say it like that, but he could imply it without saying it. Like, "We have to do whatever has to be done, and we'll do whatever it takes to do it."

 

How could he be redeemed? Take him back to when he became evil and stop it from happening altogether. You could kill him before he helped Superman-2 stop the Anti-Montior. You could stop him from killing the Titans and Superboy, helping him to see the error of his ways.
Going back in time and stopping him before he turns evil isn't redemption. It's post-prevention, and a cheap, clichéd gimmick.

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I'm just hoping DCD will put out a Superman Prime, in the Green Lantern line (or any really).....he would go great with the rest of the SinestroCorps.

 

SUPERMANPRIME002.jpg

Me and my brother were just talking the other day that it would be cool if there was a regular Superboy Prime with his Anti Monitor armor and a variant Sinestro Corps version. The armor is close enough that it could be repainted or if it was removable they could just put different armor on them. I would prefer removable anyway so I could have one without armor too.

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If Superman said, "we can't stop him. He'll just keep coming back, again and again so we have to kill him," we'd all be talking about how Superman could never say that let alone do that. So for him to say he have to redeem him really isn't out of character for Superman.
True, he would never say it like that, but he could imply it without saying it. Like, "We have to do whatever has to be done, and we'll do whatever it takes to do it."

 

How could he be redeemed? Take him back to when he became evil and stop it from happening altogether. You could kill him before he helped Superman-2 stop the Anti-Montior. You could stop him from killing the Titans and Superboy, helping him to see the error of his ways.
Going back in time and stopping him before he turns evil isn't redemption. It's post-prevention, and a cheap, clichéd gimmick.

 

Superman saying, "we'll do whatever it takes" is almost a Wolverine thing. Superman sees the world in stark black and white so that would mean for him going to the inevitable conclusion which is not something he would ever do.

 

Sure going back in time to prevent the future is a cliche but it can be done in inventive ways. Remember when Batman and John Stewart saved the world in JLU when they stuck the nerdy timetraveler in a loop where he was stuck with his shrew of a wife? That was a good use time travel to prevent an evil act.

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