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I love the SOTA Street Fighter figures, and I have waves one and two.

 

that's the difference.

 

I HAVE waves one and two. I have them. Which means they made them, which means they exist.

 

something Shocker wouldn't know word one about.

 

 

oh, and LCBH are better, because they, too exist.

 

if they stole Shocker's licenses away, more power to them. I'd rather Marvel had gotten ALL of the licenses, at least then I'd HAVE a Scud and a Maxx.

 

I am NOT talkin about whether or not stree fighter sota toys exist. I have some too;, I am talkin about the power of PR and how I think Shockertoys is tryin to use toy boards to get a loyal following of fans who wuill blindy follow them whatever they say. Unlike Sota who were successful, Shockertoys is not in especially how their figures are not out yet.

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The BAf idea is not completely correct. The MAxx is no longer a BAF though I am not sure if he was ever considered to be a BAF fig since if I remember, the pics of him they showeed were him unfinish rather than been protos of his parts separated.

 

Haha. The actual first proto of Maxx was shown at Toy Fair 2 or 3 years ago.

 

It was.......a part of an arm.

 

Seriously. They showed a part of an arm.

 

And yes, there were protos done 2/3 years ago, shown at Toyfare, that were.......amateurish at best. These were handsculpted protos. Those were scrapped, they ended up going to Singapore as they couldn't get any sculptors in the States who would work with them (their reputation precedes them) and the Singapore team uses 3D sculpting/printing. It gives their protos quite a distinctive look as a result of the 3d printing, if you know what you're looking for.

 

3D printing generally needs some cleaning up, as facial details tend to look a bit.....I don't know how to descibe it, but they have a rather static look to them. Looks great on a screen, not so great in actual physical detail. Shocker hasn't really done that, style choice there I think, or its just Shocker not being familiar with the process.

 

I hope the Singapore team is getting paid.

 

 

As to the paints of the protos: in Kyle's defence, he only had a week to do them. He ended up getting help with them, to get them done in time. And again, 3d protos are a bit finnicky to work with, I'm told.

 

And Shocker's claim that Toy Biz/Marvel Toys stole their idea is ludicrous (or as Geoff Beckett says: 'ludicrisp'). Toy Biz INVENTED the Legends formula. Shocker stole that format. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try and claim it as your own. Just like they claimed that STIKFAS stole their idea for Shockinis (no idea on how STIKFAS also invented that time machine)

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I'd really like to know if Toys "R" Us is really carrying the line, or if he's just name dropping like he did with Invincible.

 

Apparently 100 TRU stores will carry them for a trial. This already conflicts with other Shocker statements that they willl be at TRU worldwide.

 

And I'm sure that part of that agreement included timeframes for delivery. So there may have been a deal before, but there may not be one now.

 

And anyway, they've already decimated their most lucrative target market: comic shops. By pissing off the retailers, they've ensure their product won't be available at the stores where the relevant comics are bought, and where the fans of those comics can easily access them.

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And Shocker's claim that Toy Biz/Marvel Toys stole their idea is ludicrous (or as Geoff Beckett says: 'ludicrisp'). Toy Biz INVENTED the Legends formula.

 

No, this is not quite accurate.

Toys have come with integral comics before ( GIJOE Adventure Team back in the 1970's), and the super-articulation was done years before Marvel Legends ( Kankichi Ryotsu by Bandai in the mid 1990's, and likely done of earlier figures as well, The ball hips were part of the articulation scheme for the classic 12" GIJOEs)

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And Shocker's claim that Toy Biz/Marvel Toys stole their idea is ludicrous (or as Geoff Beckett says: 'ludicrisp'). Toy Biz INVENTED the Legends formula.

 

No, this is not quite accurate.

Toys have come with integral comics before ( GIJOE Adventure Team back in the 1970's), and the super-articulation was done years before Marvel Legends ( Kankichi Ryotsu by Bandai in the mid 1990's, and likely done of earlier figures as well, The ball hips were part of the articulation scheme for the classic 12" GIJOEs)

 

Yup. When ML was new, Toybiz admitted through interviews that the idea for articulated toys were taken from 12 inch and japanese figs

 

Sadly l couldn't find the article but it l think it was rtm or a*****-figure.com that had it

 

Toybiz were the ones who made it mainstream for domestic 6 inch figs in the united states

 

If l recall, the mcfarlane super articulated figures like the metal gear 2 snake and the samurai spawn predates ml by a few months.

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The BAf idea is not completely correct. The MAxx is no longer a BAF though I am not sure if he was ever considered to be a BAF fig since if I remember, the pics of him they showeed were him unfinish rather than been protos of his parts separated.

 

Haha. The actual first proto of Maxx was shown at Toy Fair 2 or 3 years ago.

 

It was.......a part of an arm.

 

Seriously. They showed a part of an arm.

 

And yes, there were protos done 2/3 years ago, shown at Toyfare, that were.......amateurish at best. These were handsculpted protos. Those were scrapped, the y ended up going to Singapore as they couldn't get any sculptors in the States who would work with them (their reputation precedes them) and the Singapore team uses 3D sculpting/printing. It gives their protos quite a distinctive look as a result of the 3d printing, if you know what you're looking for.

 

3D printing generally needs some cleaning up, as facial details tend to look a bit.....I don't know how to descibe it, but they have a rather static look to them. Looks great on a screen, not so great in actual physical detail. Shocker hasn't really done that, style choice there I think, or its just Shocker not being familiar with the process.

 

I hope the Singapore team is getting paid.

 

 

As to the paints of the protos: in Kyle's defence, he only had a week to do them. He ended up getting help with them, to get them done in time. And again, 3d protos are a bit finnicky to work with, I'm told.

 

And Shocker's claim that Toy Biz/Marvel Toys stole their idea is ludicrous (or as Geoff Beckett says: 'ludicrisp'). Toy Biz INVENTED the Legends formula. Shocker stole that format. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try and claim it as your own. Just like they claimed that STIKFAS stole their idea for Shockinis (no idea on how STIKFAS also invented that time machine)

 

 

I remember the arm and the upper half of MAxx and how it was an incomplete sculpt. I knew that ppl assumed it was a baf because it wasn't complete but not so certain since it has been years. Thanks for sheddin some more light on it

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If l recall, the mcfarlane super articulated figures like the metal gear 2 snake and the samurai spawn predates ml by a few months.

Dragon Models 12" figure, and Twenty First Century Toys 12" Super-articulated figures precede ML by at least a couple of years, so yea, domestically there's a few toy-lines that can claim the design improvements before ML and Toybiz

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If l recall, the mcfarlane super articulated figures like the metal gear 2 snake and the samurai spawn predates ml by a few months.

Dragon Models 12" figure, and Twenty First Century Toys 12" Super-articulated figures precede ML by at least a couple of years, so yea, domestically there's a few toy-lines that can claim the design improvements before ML and Toybiz

 

YEah since l remember the super articulated 12 inch PR figures precede ML in terms of articulation

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The BAf idea is not completely correct. The MAxx is no longer a BAF though I am not sure if he was ever considered to be a BAF fig since if I remember, the pics of him they showeed were him unfinish rather than been protos of his parts separated.

 

Haha. The actual first proto of Maxx was shown at Toy Fair 2 or 3 years ago.

 

It was.......a part of an arm.

 

Seriously. They showed a part of an arm.

 

And yes, there were protos done 2/3 years ago, shown at Toyfare, that were.......amateurish at best. These were handsculpted protos. Those were scrapped, the y ended up going to Singapore as they couldn't get any sculptors in the States who would work with them (their reputation precedes them) and the Singapore team uses 3D sculpting/printing. It gives their protos quite a distinctive look as a result of the 3d printing, if you know what you're looking for.

 

3D printing generally needs some cleaning up, as facial details tend to look a bit.....I don't know how to descibe it, but they have a rather static look to them. Looks great on a screen, not so great in actual physical detail. Shocker hasn't really done that, style choice there I think, or its just Shocker not being familiar with the process.

 

I hope the Singapore team is getting paid.

 

 

As to the paints of the protos: in Kyle's defence, he only had a week to do them. He ended up getting help with them, to get them done in time. And again, 3d protos are a bit finnicky to work with, I'm told.

 

And Shocker's claim that Toy Biz/Marvel Toys stole their idea is ludicrous (or as Geoff Beckett says: 'ludicrisp'). Toy Biz INVENTED the Legends formula. Shocker stole that format. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try and claim it as your own. Just like they claimed that STIKFAS stole their idea for Shockinis (no idea on how STIKFAS also invented that time machine)

 

 

 

As for idea stealin, it was actually about the claim that MT stoled the idea of doin independent comic figures. At the time, emails claimmin to be from the rival company of Marvel toys (with bad grammar and spelling) were circulated around toyboards. The email was tryin to tell retailers not to carry indie spotlight

 

Seein how Shockertoys use email to deceive retail to carry their li8ne, I think this is a ploy by the indie spotlight company to get collectors to feel sorry for them

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I'd really like to know if Toys "R" Us is really carrying the line, or if he's just name dropping like he did with Invincible.

 

Apparently 100 TRU stores will carry them for a trial. This already conflicts with other Shocker statements that they willl be at TRU worldwide.

 

And I'm sure that part of that agreement included timeframes for delivery. So there may have been a deal before, but there may not be one now.

 

And anyway, they've already decimated their most lucrative target market: comic shops. By pissing off the retailers, they've ensure their product won't be available at the stores where the relevant comics are bought, and where the fans of those comics can easily access them.

 

 

let's not forget that the target market is comic FANS, who he has already mocked, derided, and pretty much alienated.

 

not to mention "Lied to, and stole from".

 

as for the arm, I remember it too.

 

I remember when people asked if it was gonna be a BAF, and they said no, that it would be a single carded figure on a huge card, and I was dumbfounded.

 

I couldn't believe it. it blew my mind that they were putting this thing together a piece at a time, and couldn't fathom how it would look when finally assembled.

 

glad they have no intent to actually create anything, since I'd hate to be stuck with that hunk of crap.

 

the arm had two elbows, if I recall correctly.

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And Shocker's claim that Toy Biz/Marvel Toys stole their idea is ludicrous (or as Geoff Beckett says: 'ludicrisp'). Toy Biz INVENTED the Legends formula.

 

No, this is not quite accurate.

Toys have come with integral comics before ( GIJOE Adventure Team back in the 1970's), and the super-articulation was done years before Marvel Legends ( Kankichi Ryotsu by Bandai in the mid 1990's, and likely done of earlier figures as well, The ball hips were part of the articulation scheme for the classic 12" GIJOEs)

But how many combined it into one package? Super-articulation, comic book, BAF, 6" scale...

 

When we're talking the whole shebang, Toy Biz may have been inspired by others, but they can still take credit as the people who pulled it all together.

 

But really now. I think we're missing the real issue here. Obviously TB/MT stole an idea they'd been using for years from a company that had never made anything even remotely like a single element of it.

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And Shocker's claim that Toy Biz/Marvel Toys stole their idea is ludicrous (or as Geoff Beckett says: 'ludicrisp'). Toy Biz INVENTED the Legends formula.

 

No, this is not quite accurate.

Toys have come with integral comics before ( GIJOE Adventure Team back in the 1970's), and the super-articulation was done years before Marvel Legends ( Kankichi Ryotsu by Bandai in the mid 1990's, and likely done of earlier figures as well, The ball hips were part of the articulation scheme for the classic 12" GIJOEs)

But how many combined it into one package? Super-articulation, comic book, BAF, 6" scale...

 

When we're talking the whole shebang, Toy Biz may have been inspired by others, but they can still take credit as the people who pulled it all together.

 

But really now. I think we're missing the real issue here. Obviously TB/MT stole an idea they'd been using for years from a company that had never made anything even remotely like a single element of it.

 

I honestly don't remember Shocker toys sayin MT stoled their ideas in making super articulated figures. I think ppl are misreadin the issue. The issue was about Shocker toys claimin that MT stoled the idea to make INDENPENDENT SUPERHEROES toys by bullyin licenses from ppl who already licensed their creations to ST and NOT the ridiculious claim that TB stoled the idea from ST about havin a toy with more than 26 points of articulation. Such a rumor(them sayin tb copyin the super articulated concept) is even more insane than the statements Shocker toys makes..

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I honestly don't remember Shocker toys sayin MT stoled their ideas in making super articulated figures. I think ppl are misreadin the issue. The issue was about Shocker toys claimin that MT stoled the idea to make INDENPENDENT SUPERHEROES toys by bullyin license from ppl who already licensed their creations to ST and not about the construction of the ml toy.

 

I think Doom Saber is right here.

Shocker has claimed that MT stole the idea of making figures of indie characters; a completely ridiculous claim given that many other companies made figures from non-Marvel and DC characters prior to either MT or ST.

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I honestly don't remember Shocker toys sayin MT stoled their ideas in making super articulated figures. I think ppl are misreadin the issue. The issue was about Shocker toys claimin that MT stoled the idea to make INDENPENDENT SUPERHEROES toys by bullyin licenses from ppl who already licensed their creations to ST and NOT the ridiculious claim that TB stoled the idea from ST about havin a toy with more than 26 points of articulation. Such a rumor(them sayin tb copyin the super articulated concept) is even more insane than the statements Shocker toys makes..

I don't think anyone is claiming that Beckett said he came up with super-articulated figures. In fact, here's what Beckett says:

 

So when I saw that something was missing between Marvel Legends and DC Universe figures. I thought up the original idea for Indie Spotlight... we came up with the original idea and gathered the original licenses. We had the licenses first, as well as the idea, and our confidential e-mail was leaked to [ToyBiz] by an artist who owns a comic company we were pitching to. Next thing we knew, our licenses that were signed under non-exclusive [terms] were with that other toy company.

 

I seems pretty obvious that he went into it fully intending to copy the ML formula, but the guys who made ML beat him to it. The claim that's being attributed to him is that applying the ML concept to indy characters is so completely original that no one else ever could have thought of it.

 

Somehow the discussion derailed into whether or not Toy Biz/Marvel Toys originated all the parts of the ML formula. The point I was making is that they didn't invent the elements, but they did invent the overall whole, the 'formula'.

 

Beckett is upset about being beat to the punch on using that formula on indy characters, which was the logical next step in the evolution of the concept, not the completely new and unique idea that he thinks it is. I mean, once the idea is successfully applied to Marvel and DC, you go to the 'other guys'. It's a no-brainer that he thinks was sheer genius.

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I honestly don't remember Shocker toys sayin MT stoled their ideas in making super articulated figures. I think ppl are misreadin the issue. The issue was about Shocker toys claimin that MT stoled the idea to make INDENPENDENT SUPERHEROES toys by bullyin licenses from ppl who already licensed their creations to ST and NOT the ridiculious claim that TB stoled the idea from ST about havin a toy with more than 26 points of articulation. Such a rumor(them sayin tb copyin the super articulated concept) is even more insane than the statements Shocker toys makes..

I don't think anyone is claiming that Beckett said he came up with super-articulated figures. In fact, here's what Beckett says:

 

So when I saw that something was missing between Marvel Legends and DC Universe figures. I thought up the original idea for Indie Spotlight... we came up with the original idea and gathered the original licenses. We had the licenses first, as well as the idea, and our confidential e-mail was leaked to [ToyBiz] by an artist who owns a comic company we were pitching to. Next thing we knew, our licenses that were signed under non-exclusive [terms] were with that other toy company.

 

I seems pretty obvious that he went into it fully intending to copy the ML formula, but the guys who made ML beat him to it. The claim that's being attributed to him is that applying the ML concept to indy characters is so completely original that no one else ever could have thought of it.

 

Somehow the discussion derailed into whether or not Toy Biz/Marvel Toys originated all the parts of the ML formula. The point I was making is that they didn't invent the elements, but they did invent the overall whole, the 'formula'.

 

Beckett is upset about being beat to the punch on using that formula on indy characters, which was the logical next step in the evolution of the concept, not the completely new and unique idea that he thinks it is. I mean, once the idea is successfully applied to Marvel and DC, you go to the 'other guys'. It's a no-brainer that he thinks was sheer genius.

 

 

OKay, I think we both were sayin the same thing but from how we both phrased it, it reads differently since I too was tryin to say that St claims that MT copied their idea in makin indie toys with LBCH with havin a bunch of random superheroes with ml articulation.

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Dear Shocker Toys,

 

It has become painfully aware that with the month of December almost over and still no Indy figs on the shelf there will be naysayers and fanboys taking shots at your company again. In order to build a bridge of dialog and understanding I am offering you a few valid reasons you can use for this delay:

1:Due to the Recession the factory in China went under. A factory worker took the molds and in order to feed his family sold them. You are working dilegently on getting them back.

2:High gas prices (via speculation) have caused the ship where your completed merchandise is sitting to charge a higher rate than originally agreed upon. Being the savvy business mongul you are you are not budging on the agreed upon price; causing the delay.

3:Dec was a typo. You said the Maxx's left arm would be done in Dec. Spiteful fanboys took your interview and deleted your extended explanations of when these figures would actually show up in another attempt to slander your company and make you look bad.

4:You are more focused on the Toy Fair Exclusive Barack Obama Shockini

5: Robert Kirkman, Gail Simone, SWH, and other "stalkers" have launched and internet wide campaign to blacklist you even going as far as telling LCBS not to buy your product which is now sitting in a warehouse unable to move because no one wants it because of these three people.

6: TRU is waiting for the perfect time before unleashing these on the masses

Well go ahead a pick one. All I ask is that I get first dibs on a Scud whenever you get you act together and get these on the shelves.

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I don't know why it's taking so long for the Indie figures but what I know is that it's not in production yet. The prototype is finished but some more work need to be done until they can be produced. You can expect the figures to be ready in March.

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I don't expect them to be ready ever.

 

because they won't be.

 

I guaran-effing-tee it.

 

 

I expect the licensing rights will expire before they ever get around to making sculpts or drawings or whatever stage they are at next. having seen how they misrepresented Kirkman and Simone's work(among others) it would seem Valentino and Schram(? the Scud guy) would just opt to pull out and find a diffrent company to work with who could show results in less than four years.

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That would be awesome.

 

I'd love to see a Scud and Maxx that were even BETTER than the garbage Shocker was trying to foist on us, done by a company that actually cared.

 

and Shocker would be left with their poor prototypes, and nothing but the fact that they COULD'VE made the money that someone else was making from these toys, if they had just been a better company all around.

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I can't really say too much about it but the prototypes are ready it's at the painting stage. Once that is complete they should be able to start production and expecting that to start around January and CHinese New Year in Febuary I would bet that March-APril will be the release date.

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