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Just watched ARAH for ths first time...


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Exactly...that's why there were always lines in the 80's cartoons like, "Hey Flint, it's me, Duke! Get to the HAVOC, and find Snake Eyes, so we can stop Destro and those Cobra Vipers from attacking the Tactical Battle Platform in those Stuns!"

 

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my point. icon_wink.gif

 

It was almost like an obvious form of subliminal messaging. icon_lol.gif

 

A LOT of animation scripts are like that.

 

 

Trust me on that one.

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The show was inferior to the comic book. But rewatching them is EXTREMELY entertaining in an MST3K sort of way.

 

Were the comics anything like the new ones in the recent comic packs? If so, man oh man, do they suck... What's sad is these things are soo bad, and yet, inside them they're advertising the return of Larry Hama, no offense, but man, those latest 3 comics were hard to stomach, I barely remember them from when I was little, so I think I'll leave it at that, lol.. I'd hate to taint my sad excuse for a memory of them.

 

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. The show was created to be a 22 minute commercial that would make kids (us) beg our parents to buy us the characters and vehicles we had just seen on tv.

 

This was the 80's, the glory days when cartoons and action figures went together like at kids and cake. You didn't need a story that made any kind of sense, you just needed a cool looking concept, a hero that fought for freedom (someone representing western ideals), an oppresive villian who wanted to rule the world with an iron fist (a communist), and a contract with a factory in china. Thats not to say the same concept doesn't work today, its just harder to keep a kids attention now than it was 20 years ago.

 

Yeah, some had better writing than others, but the basic premise was always the same: watch this show, buy these products. GI Joe, He-Man, Thundercats (probably the worst offender, that show didn't even make sense to me when I was 6), Silverhawks, Starcom, MASK, even the venerable Transformers.

 

Exactly...that's why there were always lines in the 80's cartoons like, "Hey Flint, it's me, Duke! Get to the HAVOC, and find Snake Eyes, so we can stop Destro and those Cobra Vipers from attacking the Tactical Battle Platform in those Stuns!"

 

Obviously, I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get my point. @wink@

 

It was almost like an obvious form of subliminal messaging. @lol@

 

 

Read the new comics form the latest 2-packs Joe, they're just as bad ;)

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Were the comics anything like the new ones in the recent comic packs? If so, man oh man, do they suck... What's sad is these things are soo bad, and yet, inside them they're advertising the return of Larry Hama, no offense, but man, those latest 3 comics were hard to stomach, I barely remember them from when I was little, so I think I'll leave it at that, lol.. I'd hate to taint my sad excuse for a memory of them.

 

Yeah. I don't get why everyone is like "Larry Hama is a god! He is the best comic writer of all time!". Every joe comic I have ever read by him is painful to get through. I have tried to read some of the old comics and I can never finish them. They are always boring and I hate the art work. At least with the new comics in the comic packs, they have cool artwork that keeps me turning the pages. Though the dialogue and plots leave much to be desired.

 

I won't say who, as to not get them in trouble, but a couple of the guys that were on the hasbro design team don't get what the big deal is about Hama either. We were talking about it at last years Joe con. Which utterly cracks me up when I see the stickers on the packages that say "Featuring new Comic by the great Larry Hama!!!" Or what ever it says, cause i know that in all likelyhood the people that designed that packaging don't get what the fans see in him.

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Yeah. I don't get why everyone is like "Larry Hama is a god! He is the best comic writer of all time!". Every joe comic I have ever read by him is painful to get through. I have tried to read some of the old comics and I can never finish them. They are always boring and I hate the art work. At least with the new comics in the comic packs, they have cool artwork that keeps me turning the pages. Though the dialogue and plots leave much to be desired.

 

Personally I have to agree. I don't think he's a bad writer, some of his plots are good. But I don't think that he is as incredible as some people make him out to be. I don't read widely in comics, but I do collect the Trades for the Star Wars series, and IMO the writers and artists at Dark Horse are far superior. I respect Hama because he brought the Joes to life in the comics, but its time to pass the torch onto a new writer or group of writers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@can@

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Were the comics anything like the new ones in the recent comic packs? If so, man oh man, do they suck... What's sad is these things are soo bad, and yet, inside them they're advertising the return of Larry Hama, no offense, but man, those latest 3 comics were hard to stomach, I barely remember them from when I was little, so I think I'll leave it at that, lol.. I'd hate to taint my sad excuse for a memory of them.

 

Yeah. I don't get why everyone is like "Larry Hama is a god! He is the best comic writer of all time!". Every joe comic I have ever read by him is painful to get through. I have tried to read some of the old comics and I can never finish them. They are always boring and I hate the art work. At least with the new comics in the comic packs, they have cool artwork that keeps me turning the pages. Though the dialogue and plots leave much to be desired.

What most like about Hama is his ridiculously dense plotting and careful characterization. If you miss an issue, you actually feel like you MISSED something. Every sub-plot goes somewhere, every main plot seems bigger than the last, and everything you thought wouldn't matter that happened ten issues ago turns out to have been prelude to some of the most important story now.

 

Hama, I believe, came up with the Snake Eyes/Scarlett romance, and everything surrounding them. He made SE an unkillable ninja machine (although some would debate on how good that idea was), as well as the connection with Storm Shadow (and while we're at it, everything Arashikage is all Hama). The Oktober Guard? All Hama. The USS Flagg very likely owes it's name to Hama. Things like SS joining the Joes and the characters General Flagg (1992) and Ghost Bear are clear examples of the comic influencing the toyline. Being that he wrote most of the file cards, he established the origins of our favorite Joes and how they acted, then he brought them to 'life' in the comics. I've read more than one article that says that the line was originally meant to focus on vehicles, and the figures would be secondary (which is why they cheaped out so much on the figure molds in 82-83, and why they were sold by their specialty rather than code-name), but that the filecards (at the time a very new idea) proved so popular that Hasbro changed the direction of the line.

 

The cartoon often used characters in the manner he stated on the file card (Tripwire's a klutz), and sometimes took cues from his comic stories to make episodes (There's No Place Like Springfield), so in a somewhat roundabout way, nearly the entirety of the mythos owes it's existence to Hama. The cartoon, for as much as many fans (including myself) loved it, counts the much-reviled Cobra-La as the height of its originality.

 

Does that make Hama great and venerable? No, the man is entirely fallible. Like any writer, some of his stuff is good, some of it's terrible. I'll never claim to have loved every issue of the comic (although I think there were many more good than bad). But when the man is on, when he's working with his elements (plotting and character), when dealing with a cast of hundreds and constantly projecting twenty issues into the future... there aren't many better. Whether or not he's as good now as he used to be is a matter for debate- many writers of the 80s don't seem to 'hold up' in today's comics market due to different kinds of storytelling gaining popularity and/or different tastes in the readership. On the other hand, the 25A line is all about retro, and Hama is the guy who made it happen 'back in the day'. It's kinda like making a huge Spider-Man revival and not inviting Stan Lee to contribute something.

 

Hasbro made the toys. Hama made them into characters. Then he gave them epic adventures. That's why the fans love him. He's not the best ever, but he single-handedly made GI Joe more than just another military line. The cartoon had its own charm, but in the end, it all comes back to what Hama did for the property.

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What most like about Hama is his ridiculously dense plotting and careful characterization. If you miss an issue, you actually feel like you MISSED something. Every sub-plot goes somewhere, every main plot seems bigger than the last, and everything you thought wouldn't matter that happened ten issues ago turns out to have been prelude to some of the most important story now.

 

Hama, I believe, came up with the Snake Eyes/Scarlett romance, and everything surrounding them. He made SE an unkillable ninja machine (although some would debate on how good that idea was), as well as the connection with Storm Shadow (and while we're at it, everything Arashikage is all Hama). The Oktober Guard? All Hama. The USS Flagg very likely owes it's name to Hama. Things like SS joining the Joes and the characters General Flagg (1992) and Ghost Bear are clear examples of the comic influencing the toyline. Being that he wrote most of the file cards, he established the origins of our favorite Joes and how they acted, then he brought them to 'life' in the comics. I've read more than one article that says that the line was originally meant to focus on vehicles, and the figures would be secondary (which is why they cheaped out so much on the figure molds in 82-83, and why they were sold by their specialty rather than code-name), but that the filecards (at the time a very new idea) proved so popular that Hasbro changed the direction of the line.

 

Hasbro made the toys. Hama made them into characters. Then he gave them epic adventures. That's why the fans love him. He's not the best ever, but he single-handedly made GI Joe more than just another military line. The cartoon had its own charm, but in the end, it all comes back to what Hama did for the property.

 

 

I suppose I should have been more clear in my post. I do quite admire Hama for how he was able to huanize a group of simple plastic action figures, and (as I grew up in the 90s) I feel like I missed a huge part of G.I. Joe by not ever reading the comic series. His work as a writer and ability to spin complicated and ever-evolving plots is incredible and praise worthy, no doubt about it.

 

However, I don't think he is the only comic writer who is capable of this. I've found that John Ostrander and Jan Duursema are capable of similar works (if you check out any of their Star Wars titles you'll see what I mean).

 

I just think that Hama gets a little more praise than is required to acknowledge his skills. Yes, he definately is one of the best, and yes, he did create the Joe universe as we know it, but IMO that does not mean he is the only person who can accurately and successfully carry it on.

 

 

 

 

 

@can@

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IMO Larry Hama writes great characters & great plots. His only drawback is poor dialoge (which I have trouble wadding thorugh).

 

Though I have no doubt Joe would be anywhere near what it is now whitout him.

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Yeah. I don't get why everyone is like "Larry Hama is a god! He is the best comic writer of all time!". Every joe comic I have ever read by him is painful to get through. I have tried to read some of the old comics and I can never finish them. They are always boring and I hate the art work. At least with the new comics in the comic packs, they have cool artwork that keeps me turning the pages. Though the dialogue and plots leave much to be desired.

 

Personally I have to agree. I don't think he's a bad writer, some of his plots are good. But I don't think that he is as incredible as some people make him out to be. I don't read widely in comics, but I do collect the Trades for the Star Wars series, and IMO the writers and artists at Dark Horse are far superior. I respect Hama because he brought the Joes to life in the comics, but its time to pass the torch onto a new writer or group of writers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@can@

that's always been my opinion as well. he clearly came up with cool stories and concepts, but the execution of those stories, from dialogue to exposition, are truly awful. these new comic pack comics aren't far from the quality of the original Marvel series. the only difference is he has to wrap up a story within the confines of a single issue instead of spreading it out of numerous ones, which only magnifies how poor of a story teller he is.

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I suppose I should have been more clear in my post. I do quite admire Hama for how he was able to huanize a group of simple plastic action figures, and (as I grew up in the 90s) I feel like I missed a huge part of G.I. Joe by not ever reading the comic series. His work as a writer and ability to spin complicated and ever-evolving plots is incredible and praise worthy, no doubt about it.

 

However, I don't think he is the only comic writer who is capable of this. I've found that John Ostrander and Jan Duursema are capable of similar works (if you check out any of their Star Wars titles you'll see what I mean).

 

I just think that Hama gets a little more praise than is required to acknowledge his skills. Yes, he definately is one of the best, and yes, he did create the Joe universe as we know it, but IMO that does not mean he is the only person who can accurately and successfully carry it on.

Oh, I don't think he's the only one who can do what he did, although the complexities involved in making hundreds of characters (none of them previously established) unique yet accessible is probably not something many writers can handle. I'll fully agree that others (although very few, I'll maintain) could probably do it, and even do it better. I'd love to see Ostrander take a whack at Joe, Reloaded-style, as I'm a big Suicide Squad fan.

 

Honestly, my post was more of a response to the 'I don't get it/what's the big deal?' thing. I was trying to illustrate that the people who ask that probably aren't aware of just how much Hama did for the line, be it in comics, toys, cartoons... Hama was in all of it one way or another. When you look at the scope of the mythos and realize that over half of it comes from one man, and the rest of it was built on his work, it's really pretty incredible, and easy to see how the people who have followed the property for years view him with such respect.

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IMO Larry Hama writes great characters & great plots. His only drawback is poor dialoge (which I have trouble wadding thorugh).

Yeah, I'm touting his characterization and plotting for a reason. I like the guy's work, but it seems like 3-4 times an issue someone has to rattle off the make, model, and caliber of their gun for no apparent reason. A little military jargon is one thing, but come on now.

 

Hama also subscribes to the 'everyone has extensive conversations while fighting' school of comic writing, which can get tiresome.

 

'Slinger, I don't see how the comic pack stories have been that bad, personally. I liked the Duke/Red Star one, and actually found myself giddy about the Firefly/Storm Shadow one just for the Slice & Dice cameo alone. The fact that it tied up a loose end that's almost two decades old was a welcome bonus. However, I haven't seen the latest wave of comic packs, and those may be more of what you're referring to.

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So that brings up the question of what everyone else thinks of the original mini. Does it hold up against the rest of the series? Do you feel it's worse, as good, or better? Are there other episodes that bother you in the way these bothered me? Am I just thinking about this stuff way too much?

 

I've always preferred the first two mini-series of the Sunbow 'toons over the later episodes. It may be that it's probably what I watched the most as a kid. I still have the VHS tapes I recorded them on when they premiered. The nostalgia factor is probably the reason I still watch them though. :D

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'Slinger, I don't see how the comic pack stories have been that bad, personally. I liked the Duke/Red Star one, and actually found myself giddy about the Firefly/Storm Shadow one just for the Slice & Dice cameo alone. The fact that it tied up a loose end that's almost two decades old was a welcome bonus. However, I haven't seen the latest wave of comic packs, and those may be more of what you're referring to.

I find them all equally bad.

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'Slinger, I don't see how the comic pack stories have been that bad, personally. I liked the Duke/Red Star one, and actually found myself giddy about the Firefly/Storm Shadow one just for the Slice & Dice cameo alone. The fact that it tied up a loose end that's almost two decades old was a welcome bonus. However, I haven't seen the latest wave of comic packs, and those may be more of what you're referring to.

I find them all equally bad.

Hmm. Guess you have different tastes than I do. I did pick up the Lt. Falcon/Nemesis Whatever pack today, and I have to say, that one was downright awful. Second page, and here's Falcon rattling off the make and model of all the weapons... ugh.

 

I also had no idea what this 'Battle of Cobra-La II' was all about. Did I miss something?

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After watching the first two Entertainment Packs, I found it amusing that if Duke is such a great leader why does he always get captured!!!

 

I hope the other three packs that they release have Duke getting captured.

 

 

On the other side of the coin,if Cobra Commander is so great why does he always get captured?

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'Slinger, I don't see how the comic pack stories have been that bad, personally. I liked the Duke/Red Star one, and actually found myself giddy about the Firefly/Storm Shadow one just for the Slice & Dice cameo alone. The fact that it tied up a loose end that's almost two decades old was a welcome bonus. However, I haven't seen the latest wave of comic packs, and those may be more of what you're referring to.

I find them all equally bad.

Hmm. Guess you have different tastes than I do. I did pick up the Lt. Falcon/Nemesis Whatever pack today, and I have to say, that one was downright awful. Second page, and here's Falcon rattling off the make and model of all the weapons... ugh.

 

I also had no idea what this 'Battle of Cobra-La II' was all about. Did I miss something?

Even though it had Nemesis in it I thought it was better than the Destro/IG pack comic. The artwork was way better at least. It was nice to see Doc alive again, I guess this took place before he died or are these not in Marvel continuity?

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