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End of rant.

No! Don't end rant. PREACH ON!

 

 

DITTO!

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However, my problem was with the complaint that the movie would be bad simply because Hasbro chose to make them a more international organization. Where they are based and focused shouldn't change what G.I. Joe is; as long as the characters and general plot remain I fail to see a problem. ?

 

To be fair, I think the movie will be bad for completely different reasons. ; )

 

When it comes to this 'international' issue, I doubt anyone will really be happy with what we get. If GI Joe, the elite American anti-terrorism unit, goes wherever they wish throughout the world, you enter than dangerous area of American interference in foreign affairs, ect ect. You turn them into a international unit to evade that criticism, and you alienate the core fanbase. It's lose-lose ,really.

 

I kind of cringe at the idea of politicising GI Joe. I mean, there is a natural sense of pride and bravado that goes with the series - it's a group of American military men fighting against terrorism - regardless of it's reasons, terrorism is a corrupt and dangerous movement that has no boundaries or rules of consicence. Really, that should be good enough. But, along with that, you get folks who pervert it into a vehicle for right-wing politics, claiming everything from pre-emptive strikes to freedom of other nations. Folks will try to take the innocence away from anything, and well... GI Joe is no different.

 

My point is, I don't see GI Joe as the symbol of American strength, nor will it carry us into the future. It's a fun cartoon and toy series that I love, that has U.S. soldiers defending the tangible and intangible aspects of our country against an enemy that is a dark, disgusting version of what we could be if people weren't there to stop them.

 

G.I. Joe has always acted internationally, dispite being based in the US, This was especially prevalent near the end of the Marvel run and in DDP's run (whether you guys loved that or hated it).The inclusion of international action, and possibly members born in other countries shouldn't change that. G.I. Joe can be a worldwide hero who just happens to be based in and run by the government of the US. A more global outlook shouldn't make the team worse, only stronger and more diverse.

 

GI Joe acted internationally, yes, but always answered to the Department of Defense and other United States offices. Take for example to turbulent relationship they had with the Jugglers, claiming they violated orders by getting involved in the internal disputes of two national factions (Cobra Island Civil War) or when they were ordered to leave the newly founded island nation of Cobra Island when it was declared a state by the U.N. ... they are not a internationally supported or sanction unit - they simply perform missions outside the U.S. to stop Cobra and other related threats. There is no example I can think of where GI Joe made any long-term connections with a foreign office or commited any personnel or supplys where it didn't suit American interests to eliminate Cobra.

 

EDIT: For example several fan favs aren't from the US: Big Ben is British, Claymore is from Europe (forget where), Glenda is from Brazil, etc. It doesn't change G.I. Joe to have some international flavor. That said, does anyone know if there's a Canadian Joe

 

There are tons of foreigners in GI Joe, like Skymate, with the Australian SAS. But most of them are liasons or 'loaned' to the team. In most cases, if you look, they retain their foreign rank status and (using DDP as a reference) are not with the GI Joe team at the inception of WWIII, but instead in their homelands. They assist the team and participate in missions, but I consider most of them as "GI Joe" as Red Star was. And that's not a knock on the alien Joes... I'm sure they'd rather be defending London and Red Square than Manhattan or Los Angeles.

 

And sadly, I know of zero Canadian Joes. Would you settle for someone from Maine or up-state New York? ; D

 

Tom

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Every time I watch Transformers (the live-action film I mean), that small band of soldiers that survives the air-base attack makes me think of G.I. Joe. To me, that's what G.I. Joe should look and feel like on the big screen; relateable, colorful, kick-@$$ characters in great action scenes with realistic gear and weaponry. Besides the fact that they were fighting giant alien robots (lol), the pace of action and the effects were awesome. And lot of the fighting and explosions reminded me of Saving Private Ryan, and that's usually the standard I hold most military movies up to now. So I think Michael Bay could have delivered an excellent G.I. Joe movie. And every time I see those "tank-smashers" fly over Scorponok and bomb him, I get chills and think of the Rattlers. I also think of the A.W.E. Striker whenever I see that armored dune-buggy thing the soldiers ride around in towards the end of the movie.

 

Here's the thing......

 

 

That's not GIJOE.

 

It never has been.

Look at all of the major incarnations of GIJOE, notably the animated versions and the earlier comics, and NONE of that material was like how you described. Most people have no sense of GIJOE being like that.

Devils Due did a series of comics that tried to be more like that, but they hit only a SMALL readership, and even then the titles were more like the earlier fluff than anything.

People cite Blackhawk Down, Saving Private Ryan.....and other war movies........but those are things that GIJOE hasn't been before. Its never shown people being blown apart, never shown the horrors of war......its glossed war over and made it palatable for children by making the conflicts essentially harmless and inconsequential. If anything, its been more akin to the silliness of the A-team that anything.....and most people would consider the A-team to NOT be GIJOE.

Heck the way GIJOE and COBRA battle is like the skirmish lines from the US Civil War, mark two sides, aim at each other and attack. Certainly the cartoons have never explored things like bounding overwatch or indirect fire support. GIJOE, up until now.......has been pretty dumb.

The only thing that's grown from GIJOE is the ninja battles.......but that's just ripped its material from a host of chop socky flics that came well before it

 

What you have in your mind ( as everyone else has in their minds) is an INTERPRETATION of GIJOE.............which is exactly just what this movie is.....another interpretation.

This is why I'm quite puzzled by peoples reactions to the film..........because what came before was....honestly.........pretty dumbed down.......aimed at kids and not very serious at all.

I don't understand why there's so much objection to the makers of this movie doing exactly the same thing as the fans do--taking GIJOE and twisting and distorting it to meet their own sensibilities.

 

If people want it "like they remember it" then we'd all better remember that GIJOE allied themselves with stupid cartoon elements like leprechauns and fought COBRA and their giant stupid looking walking machines coming out of the sea.

Since GIJOE never took itself as seriously as people remember, perhaps we should embrace some of THAT kind of stuff in this new movie??

 

No takers?

I didn't think so.

 

Rather than finding fault with superficial things like costumes, and casting......why not wait until the movie plays, and judge it by tone and execution??

If the movie shows a professional team dedicated to thwarting COBRA, being heroic and daring......and facing advanced technology ( with some of their own) and overcoming great odds....then chances are this movie could hit upon the SPIRIT of what GIJOE is.

That spirit, sure as shooting, does not rest on Duke being a clean shaven guy in a tan shirt with a bandoleer slung over his chest. That s a superficial veneer, and if people are locked up into that........well, too bad for them I guess.

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G.I.Joe (in the 80's, as ARAH) was just another version of SUPER FRIENDS. Instead of all these individual, uniquely powered and dressed Super Hero's, banding together to fight each of their individual, uniquely powered and dressed arch Nemesis...they came up with a military slant to the same basic theme and simply used the name of G.I.Joe to do it, and instead of SUPER FRIENDS they became A REAL AMERICAN HERO's

 

Another comparison (an easy one) is the popularity of Star Wars at the time, and the Sci-Fi element was inserted into a more earthly confines with American based soldiers and American based terrorists instead of Jedi's protecting the entire galaxy against the Evil Empire.

 

 

What you have in your mind ( as everyone else has in their minds) is an INTERPRETATION of GIJOE.............which is exactly just what this movie is.....another interpretation.

This is why I'm quite puzzled by peoples reactions to the film..........because what came before was....honestly.........pretty dumbed down.......aimed at kids and not very serious at all.

I don't understand why there's so much objection to the makers of this movie doing exactly the same thing as the fans do--taking GIJOE and twisting and distorting it to meet their own sensibilities.

 

Sense of entitlement to the property I guess? What we do with it in our own imaginations is ONE thing, because most times (unless you're trying to make dio stories or write comic books) it never goes anywhere besides the confines of our own imaginations, but when Hollywood steps in, to take a shot of it, and share to the MASSES their interpretations...that hits a wider audience and can certainly make an indelible impression upon viewers that could change the whole look and feel of the property itself for years to come, for better or WORSE.

 

If people want it "like they remember it" then we'd all better remember that GIJOE allied themselves with stupid cartoon elements like leprechauns and fought COBRA and their giant stupid looking walking machines coming out of the sea.

Since GIJOE never took itself as seriously as people remember, perhaps we should embrace some of THAT kind of stuff in this new movie??

 

That's why I've always dreaded the idea of a live-action ARAH movie. The cartoon IS goofy and silly to a major extent, and what's acceptable (tolerable) in THAT medium, usually isn't the same when translated over to live action. It's been attempted before and failed miserably and i just hate to see that happen to Joe. Seems to me, that ARAH took elements of war and military conflict (specifically with terrorists) and dummied it down for a children's cartoon that wouldn't even allow for DEATH scenes. In my active imagination, i see these characters fighting it out in bloody REAL battles and lots of Cobra guts flying all over the place, and some hardcore Joe's going out in super dramatic "save the day" hero-esq fashion, because the story in my head doesn't have a sequel, it's a one shot all out battle to the death with the hero's winning it all, with many a casualties. ^_^

 

MY imagination is way better than Hollywood's! ;) (so we all think that way, right?) My imagination isn't exactly true to the ARAH stroyline either, but I can accept that and it doesn't have to go any farther. Hollywood taking a crack it is different though. Their's will CRAM their ideals down our throats, mine is just for personal enjoyment and for no others.

 

 

Rather than finding fault with superficial things like costumes, and casting......why not wait until the movie plays, and judge it by tone and execution??

 

 

We will, but why not debate the possibilities of it now? Nobody is well enough informed to make a FINAL opinion on it, it isn't viewable yet to do so, but it's ok to make half informed observations based off of our "gut-feelings" by pulling in past experiences with this kind of thing, past disappointments or past surprises for the BETTER? It's just typical human speculation and the whole point of blogs and message boards. We'll never all join hands in one harmonious circle and UNITE on the opinions of anything to do with this property....NEVER!

 

We read early pre-production reviews, see early images.....we form an opinion on it, and share it. Once it's released and we all can see it, the opinions will be just as varied and debates over the content will be just the same THEN as they are now, hair is going to get pulled regardless, because some will hate it and others will love it and we WILL be informed then, but no change in the battles over it here. Some will agree with each other and others won't, but it's still just the name of the game I guess? :)

 

If the movie shows a professional team dedicated to thwarting COBRA, being heroic and daring......and facing advanced technology ( with some of their own) and overcoming great odds....then chances are this movie could hit upon the SPIRIT of what GIJOE is.

That spirit, sure as shooting, does not rest on Duke being a clean shaven guy in a tan shirt with a bandoleer slung over his chest. That s a superficial veneer, and if people are locked up into that........well, too bad for them I guess.

 

That's like stating we could all except Batman or Superman being more like a Hancock as long as the plots good and the action is great, why adhere to the traditional look and feel of the characters when action is all we want, and besides, Hancock looks more normal in the REAL world than a Batman or Superman, with their pointless costumes and capes (that don't help them to FLY) so the anti-Superhero will play better to today's mindset than the heroics and attitude of ancient Batman and Superman canon? I think you have to stick with G.I.Joe as the REAL AMERICAN HERO and all their individuality and characteristics, if you want to take the story and create something with it, like a MOVIE, but even THAT aspect has gone under circumcision by Hollywood. A guy named after John Wayne (a dirty word) is going to offend some foreigners out there, who might dislike the notion of this "John Wayne-ish" attitude being presented in a positive way, and will incite followers to form a like opinion on how to deal with REAL terrorists. No more Dirty Harry's either, he bad cop, no likey likey! <_< I hate that pussified mentality out of Hollywood today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:edit: In reading this after posting it, it might seem I'm tearing up or totally disagreeing your every point here Ken, and I don't want it to come across that way, as your points are very sound and logical (like usual). You just inspire counterpoints out of me, in the friendly, just having a normal conversation over a common interest kinda way. ^_^

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Every time I watch Transformers (the live-action film I mean), that small band of soldiers that survives the air-base attack makes me think of G.I. Joe. To me, that's what G.I. Joe should look and feel like on the big screen; relateable, colorful, kick-@$$ characters in great action scenes with realistic gear and weaponry. Besides the fact that they were fighting giant alien robots (lol), the pace of action and the effects were awesome. And lot of the fighting and explosions reminded me of Saving Private Ryan, and that's usually the standard I hold most military movies up to now. So I think Michael Bay could have delivered an excellent G.I. Joe movie. And every time I see those "tank-smashers" fly over Scorponok and bomb him, I get chills and think of the Rattlers. I also think of the A.W.E. Striker whenever I see that armored dune-buggy thing the soldiers ride around in towards the end of the movie.

 

Here's the thing......

 

 

That's not GIJOE.

 

It never has been.

Look at all of the major incarnations of GIJOE, notably the animated versions and the earlier comics, and NONE of that material was like how you described. Most people have no sense of GIJOE being like that.

Devils Due did a series of comics that tried to be more like that, but they hit only a SMALL readership, and even then the titles were more like the earlier fluff than anything.

People cite Blackhawk Down, Saving Private Ryan.....and other war movies........but those are things that GIJOE hasn't been before. Its never shown people being blown apart, never shown the horrors of war......its glossed war over and made it palatable for children by making the conflicts essentially harmless and inconsequential. If anything, its been more akin to the silliness of the A-team that anything.....and most people would consider the A-team to NOT be GIJOE.

Heck the way GIJOE and COBRA battle is like the skirmish lines from the US Civil War, mark two sides, aim at each other and attack. Certainly the cartoons have never explored things like bounding overwatch or indirect fire support. GIJOE, up until now.......has been pretty dumb.

The only thing that's grown from GIJOE is the ninja battles.......but that's just ripped its material from a host of chop socky flics that came well before it

 

What you have in your mind ( as everyone else has in their minds) is an INTERPRETATION of GIJOE.............which is exactly just what this movie is.....another interpretation.

This is why I'm quite puzzled by peoples reactions to the film..........because what came before was....honestly.........pretty dumbed down.......aimed at kids and not very serious at all.

I don't understand why there's so much objection to the makers of this movie doing exactly the same thing as the fans do--taking GIJOE and twisting and distorting it to meet their own sensibilities.

 

If people want it "like they remember it" then we'd all better remember that GIJOE allied themselves with stupid cartoon elements like leprechauns and fought COBRA and their giant stupid looking walking machines coming out of the sea.

Since GIJOE never took itself as seriously as people remember, perhaps we should embrace some of THAT kind of stuff in this new movie??

 

No takers?

I didn't think so.

 

Rather than finding fault with superficial things like costumes, and casting......why not wait until the movie plays, and judge it by tone and execution??

If the movie shows a professional team dedicated to thwarting COBRA, being heroic and daring......and facing advanced technology ( with some of their own) and overcoming great odds....then chances are this movie could hit upon the SPIRIT of what GIJOE is.

That spirit, sure as shooting, does not rest on Duke being a clean shaven guy in a tan shirt with a bandoleer slung over his chest. That s a superficial veneer, and if people are locked up into that........well, too bad for them I guess.

 

ARROW, you took out the part of my post that opposes your logic and ran with it. Didn't you read the rest of it? Yes, that is my personal interpretation. I don't deny that. I said "to me" that's what G.I. Joe "should" look like. Key words there "to me". That doesn't mean I think everyone will agree with me, or that the movie-makers are making a huge mistake if their vision doesn't line-up with mine. Geeze...

 

And I don't envision a bloody war documentary like Saving Private Ryan. But to deny the realistic aspects of G.I. Joe is to deny what attracts many fans. There is a real military element that makes it believable and relatable.

 

Also, you totally ignored the part where I said I would reserve judgement until the final product debuted. I have an open mind, and I'm not at all opposed to the changes the film-makers are making. It could turn out to be very cool for all I know. I was just saying what I personally would like to see. I KNOW it's not G.I. Joe. You felt the need to tell me that it was my interpretation, which I knew already and never denied to begin with. We agree more than you are letting on in your response. Please go back and read a little more closely before you get on your soapbox and tear me down next time...

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ARROW, you took out the part of my post that opposes your logic and ran with it. Didn't you read the rest of it? Yes, that is my personal interpretation. I don't deny that. I said "to me" that's what G.I. Joe "should" look like. Key words there "to me". That doesn't mean I think everyone will agree with me, or that the movie-makers are making a huge mistake if their vision doesn't line-up with mine. Geeze...

 

Think of my comments as less addressing you personally, and more addressing all the OTHER complaints about the film from everyone else.

 

I've got my own interpretations of what GIJOE "is", and I've got my opinions on what it has been up until know.

I find that a LOT of people are pretty inconsistent when it comes to remember who GIJOE really was, and they cherry-pick the material and ignore the weak stuff.

Overall, GIJOE has been made into a live action movie......two, in a sense. The Street Fighter movie and MegaForce....both are pretty dumb because they are totally immersed in Military Fantasy--which is what GIJOE is.

Military Fantasy is not realistic.......its flamboyant escapist fare, fulling flaunting action movie staples in favour of realism. In essence, it some soldier in a earth burrowing machine launching an attack on their enemies from underground............which sounds like something we can expect in this movie.

 

But, let's contrast all this with something..........

 

Another well-known Military Fantasy movie is...............Predator. Argueably one of the BEST of its genre, it feature big buff characters, loads of firepower, even some almost sensible tactics. But it has the same flamboyant kinds of action as every other action movie.

 

Now, GIJOE-----as we have seen it before........IS more like the previous two movies: Street Fighter and MegaForce. If this movie is indeed like those, I dread it.

 

I think ANYONE in their right mind would be justified in dreading it.

Its not about all-black Sigma suits, its not about Duke and Baroness playing footsy........it'd be about adhering TOO CLOSELY to what's come before.

 

But, if they go the route of Predator..........it they at least make it SMART, and true to the spirit of GIJOE then the veneer of sigma suits and super-endo-skeletons and relationships with terrosist baronesses etc means a lot less. We both can agree that GIJOE is more than that, and have the patience ( I think) to see what the filmmakers will come up with.

 

IMO, this movie will be "sold"to the fans on the first trailer released. Not a teaser, but a solid trailer that show some of the expected iconic imagery. If they give us something like Duke, standing sillhouetted in front of flaming debris, with a slightly tattered Old Glory rustling in the breeze behind him--then I think fans will "get" what these guys are trying to say.

I've no idea if that kind of shot is in the movie, but I feel we can expect something like that.

 

We'll see............right?

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Think of my comments as less addressing you personally, and more addressing all the OTHER complaints about the film from everyone else.

 

I'm sorry; for some reason I took your comments a little too personally. For some reason I felt like it was aimed soley at me in a derogatory way. I always value your opinion ARROW because it's usually one of the most sane, well thought-out ones around. So I hope were good...

 

But I think what you're saying is what I'm saying as well; they can change alot of things, just as long as the general spirit of G.I. Joe is retained. I'm still not 100% on-board with the "Sigma-Suits" yet. But I think with me it'll be just like with Transformers; if I just disregard the last twenty-five years and take it for face value, it'll be very cool to me. I always come into these types of things with an open mind, and I usually walk away impressed.

 

I have to admit though; I absolutely love that pic of Heavy Duty holding that mini gatlin-gun. He looks bad-@$$. I really have high hopes for this film, even if it doesn't resemble my personal interpretation.

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