Who thinks Hasbro should start over with 3 3/4" line?

[DeDzBRACKADOOM]

If you haven't noticed, Hasbro has been pulling the trigger slowly on these, just to kill the interest, by producing them with poor quality standards compared to what ToyBiz did in it's conception; when ToyBiz marketed them as LEGENDS it was because they were meant to be that: LEGENDARY among other superheroes toys.

I was with every last bit of your post, not necessarily agreeing, but at least understanding it... until I read that.

 

So if I understand you, you're saying that with the rising cost of resources and a bad economy (things that you pointed out yourself), Hasbro is using resources and paying people... with the express purpose of making a line that is designed to fail?

 

I've seen some interesting "Hasbro sucks and here's why" theories tossed around here, but this one doesn't even begin to make sense. They would have to be expecting one heck of a turn-around on a 'rebooted' smaller line in order to make that work... and pissing off the collectors by purposely destroying their old line doesn't exactly cry 'increased sales'.

 

Sure, new people will come in, some of the old ones will stick around, but they would be losing people through the size change, and then more when they see a drastic quality rebound... that would just be outright stupid. Sorry, but I'm just not believing that Hasbro spent good money on the license so they could use it to drive an entire scale of figures into the dirt and start over. I can buy the complaints that say Hasbro just doesn't know what they're doing, but that conjecture fails on every reasonable level.

 

 

do i know you "friend"?

 

this is fact over fiction.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if I'm following you here, but are you saying it's a "Fact" that Hasbro is making shoddy figures to drive away sales and eventually just cancel the line?

 

Why on god's green Earth would any business purposly drive away it's buyers? No one person or company would do that. If they want to swap scales on us, they'll just do it, they won't purposly drive away our sales and lose money just to make a change. I'm not attacking you, just disagreeing.

 

Ex. I sell lemonade, everyone loves my lemonade, but I want to cut cost and oranges are cheaper. Do I A) Make crappy Lemonade until I've lost the majority of my buyers and then make the switch or B ) Swap to making orange juice losing only a portion of my loyal customer base that doesn't care for oranges.

 

 

 

I, personally feel a 3 3/4" line would have no chance of having the quality or detail that the 6" line has. I would probably just stop collecting at that point, as I hardly buy the Hasbro figures now (unless it's a character I like).

[nagauthier]

I've got mixed feelings about a scale change. On one hand I'd hate it because I'm not starting over from scratch with a new scale, regardless of how the figures look. They could be absolutely perfect and I still wouldn't touch them. Why spend hundreds, maybe thousands on a new scale for characters I've already cashed out for big time over the last several years in six inch? I'd be out. Period.

 

On the other hand, while there are characters I'd still like to see made in ML, the majority of the major players have been covered pretty well at this point, so it wouldn't be a total bummer for me to save a couple hundred a year by calling it a day. I'm still collecting Star Wars and Hasblow has been seriously overkilling that line in terms of quantity of new product the last couple years so it would be nice to be able to cut back spending in other areas of my collecting to compensate.

[Magic 8 Ball]

If you haven't noticed, Hasbro has been pulling the trigger slowly on these, just to kill the interest, by producing them with poor quality standards compared to what ToyBiz did in it's conception; when ToyBiz marketed them as LEGENDS it was because they were meant to be that: LEGENDARY among other superheroes toys.

I was with every last bit of your post, not necessarily agreeing, but at least understanding it... until I read that.

 

So if I understand you, you're saying that with the rising cost of resources and a bad economy (things that you pointed out yourself), Hasbro is using resources and paying people... with the express purpose of making a line that is designed to fail?

 

I've seen some interesting "Hasbro sucks and here's why" theories tossed around here, but this one doesn't even begin to make sense. They would have to be expecting one heck of a turn-around on a 'rebooted' smaller line in order to make that work... and pissing off the collectors by purposely destroying their old line doesn't exactly cry 'increased sales'.

 

Sure, new people will come in, some of the old ones will stick around, but they would be losing people through the size change, and then more when they see a drastic quality rebound... that would just be outright stupid. Sorry, but I'm just not believing that Hasbro spent good money on the license so they could use it to drive an entire scale of figures into the dirt and start over. I can buy the complaints that say Hasbro just doesn't know what they're doing, but that conjecture fails on every reasonable level.

do i know you "friend"?

 

this is fact over fiction.

I'm not sure if I'm following you here, but are you saying it's a "Fact" that Hasbro is making shoddy figures to drive away sales and eventually just cancel the line?

 

Why on god's green Earth would any business purposly drive away it's buyers? No one person or company would do that. If they want to swap scales on us, they'll just do it, they won't purposly drive away our sales and lose money just to make a change. I'm not attacking you, just disagreeing.

 

Ex. I sell lemonade, everyone loves my lemonade, but I want to cut cost and oranges are cheaper. Do I A) Make crappy Lemonade until I've lost the majority of my buyers and then make the switch or B ) Swap to making orange juice losing only a portion of my loyal customer base that doesn't care for oranges.

That pretty much says it all, JANMUGAR PRIME. You're not supplying 'fact', you're making an assumption, and an illogical one at that. I'm not trying to deny you your opinion, but at least recognize it as such rather than trying to pass it off as a master plan to deprive collectors of their favorite toyline. Despite what would be inferred by what some of the people here say, the Hasbro board of directors is not headed by Cobra Commander.

[ARROW]

If you haven't noticed, Hasbro has been pulling the trigger slowly on these, just to kill the interest, by producing them with poor quality standards compared to what ToyBiz did in it's conception; when ToyBiz marketed them as LEGENDS it was because they were meant to be that: LEGENDARY among other superheroes toys.

 

this is fact over fiction.

 

 

Oh please...

As has been stated before above, this defies all common sense. I suggest a reality check, combined with a purge of delusions.

 

I mean, if you have "facts" then feel free to support them with evidence. The crowd's a waitin'......

 

It seems clear to me they want the sales charts to back up their claim that the 6" line is not viable.

 

Wouldn't it just be easier to STOP making the 6" scale altogether and do a new scale anyway?

Why would anyone or any company go through the histrionics of setting up a line to fail?

 

Did it occur to anyone that having a 3 3/4" line in concert and parallel to the 6" makes solid business sense?

Heck, Hasbro has done this before, with GIJOE and Star Wars. They've had 3 3/4" figures sold alongside 12" figures of the same characters--and its worked for years.

[iammingy]

"start over"?

 

No way...

[tyhifive]

"start over"?

 

No way...

No way would I want to start over either; I completely agree with you. I might buy some of the figures, but i definitely wouldn't open them & display them with my way sweeter legends! You want smaller figures? Get a bunch of superhero squad figure. They have vehicles & playsets. I don't play with my figures so I don't want something smaller than i can push around in a car or fly around in a jet. They have kids toys that do that. Enjoy what is already offered & what you are already looking for (smaller figures). GI JOE's & Star Wars figures have classicly been known for their 4 inch scale; not Marvel figures.

[Magic 8 Ball]

Hasbro has said they wanted to do the "legends" as 5 inchers ever since SDCC 2006 when it was announced they were gettng the liscense. They even showcased refurbished Legends figures in a five inch scale. I distinctly remembered seeing a Cyclops and Magneto figures redecoed.

I could be wrong, but wasn't the supposed idea that there would be two lines: a 6" ML line for the collectors, and a 5" Marvel Heroes (I believe that was the name) for the kids... and the Cyclops and Magneto (among others) where going to be straight-up repaints while they worked up the new molds.

They tried lauching the Spider-Man 3 line in 5 inch and having it tank. Again with the FF2 line. It didn't do much better.

Lines that Hasbro meant for kids, because they overestimated their interest and underestimated collector interest.

They also launched a Spider-Man Origins 6" with some of the crappiest retreads from Toybiz's Spider-Man line.

I fail to see the difference between that line and the Spider-Man line Toy Biz put out, which often had crappy repaint after crappy repaint. At least Origins gave us the ML Doc Ock, Demogoblin, and Black Costume Spidey. Of those three popular and oft-requested figures, the only loser was the BC Spidey, and that was really no fault of Hasbro's.

Now they are launching a new Spider-Man 6" line with what? New Sculpts? Nooooo...the SAME tired resculpts they've already pawned on us three times already.

You mean the line that's meant to phase out into new sculpts/characters by the end of summer? Is that the one?

 

It seems clear to me they want the sales charts to back up their claim that the 6" line is not viable.

 

Unfortunately, the buyers keep proving them wrong by buying up Marvel Legends and clamoring for more. Pesky consumer base...

Here's the problem with that thinking: They control everything. They don't have to 'back up' anything. Hasbro can say "You know what? No more six-inch figures!" ... and that's that. They can do it any time they want, with or without a good reason.

 

Here's another way of looking at things: The very fact that Hasbro keeps putting out six-inch figures at all says that they are trying to keep it alive. What you think of their product choices is another matter. They are a business, and as such they are not going to burn their money to purposely make a product that does not sell so that they can prove it's 'not viable'. That's counter to everything a business (especially a corporation of Hasbro's size) does. They can save that money, cancel the line, put their efforts to whatever they think will sell, to hell with all the 6" collectors, and that's the end of that... but we're still getting 6" product, so that doesn't seem not the case.

 

It comes down to this: Hasbro is full of idiots who have some nonsensical master plot that is losing them money and would be better used in a Saturday morning cartoon, or they're trying to keep the line on life support while they gear up to open the floodgates. When you pick one of those to believe, try to remember that we haven't seen even HALF of the product that's supposed to be out this year.

[DeDzBRACKADOOM]

Despite what would be inferred by what some of the people here say, the Hasbro board of directors is not headed by Cobra Commander.

 

Now who's not supplying fact?

 

 

LoLz.

[JANMUGAR PRIME]

If you haven't noticed, Hasbro has been pulling the trigger slowly on these, just to kill the interest, by producing them with poor quality standards compared to what ToyBiz did in it's conception; when ToyBiz marketed them as LEGENDS it was because they were meant to be that: LEGENDARY among other superheroes toys.

 

this is fact over fiction.

 

 

Oh please...

As has been stated before above, this defies all common sense. I suggest a reality check, combined with a purge of delusions.

 

I mean, if you have "facts" then feel free to support them with evidence. The crowd's a waitin'......

 

It seems clear to me they want the sales charts to back up their claim that the 6" line is not viable.

 

Wouldn't it just be easier to STOP making the 6" scale altogether and do a new scale anyway?

Why would anyone or any company go through the histrionics of setting up a line to fail?

 

Did it occur to anyone that having a 3 3/4" line in concert and parallel to the 6" makes solid business sense?

Heck, Hasbro has done this before, with GIJOE and Star Wars. They've had 3 3/4" figures sold alongside 12" figures of the same characters--and its worked for years.

 

fact over fiction...

 

history repeats itself again and again.

 

STARWARS 1985: No movies to support the figures, then came the EWOKS and DROIDS cartoon + lesser quality figures = Cancelation of the line.

 

TRANSFORMERS G1 1989: Higher costs of materials = from "normal sized TF" to "micromachines" MICROMASTERS TF. + TF "action masters"=Cancelation of the line.

 

GIJOES 1994: From "real" military themed figures, to "NEON" military themed figures = Cancelation of the line.

 

and the list goes on.....

 

from high quality to low quality= low interest in the properties (with or without collectors).

 

but, then again those were the 80's and the 90's.

now we have aimed themed or DTC products, right?.

 

but at what cost?, please tell me...

[JANMUGAR PRIME]

If you haven't noticed, Hasbro has been pulling the trigger slowly on these, just to kill the interest, by producing them with poor quality standards compared to what ToyBiz did in it's conception; when ToyBiz marketed them as LEGENDS it was because they were meant to be that: LEGENDARY among other superheroes toys.

I was with every last bit of your post, not necessarily agreeing, but at least understanding it... until I read that.

 

So if I understand you, you're saying that with the rising cost of resources and a bad economy (things that you pointed out yourself), Hasbro is using resources and paying people... with the express purpose of making a line that is designed to fail?

 

I've seen some interesting "Hasbro sucks and here's why" theories tossed around here, but this one doesn't even begin to make sense. They would have to be expecting one heck of a turn-around on a 'rebooted' smaller line in order to make that work... and pissing off the collectors by purposely destroying their old line doesn't exactly cry 'increased sales'.

 

Sure, new people will come in, some of the old ones will stick around, but they would be losing people through the size change, and then more when they see a drastic quality rebound... that would just be outright stupid. Sorry, but I'm just not believing that Hasbro spent good money on the license so they could use it to drive an entire scale of figures into the dirt and start over. I can buy the complaints that say Hasbro just doesn't know what they're doing, but that conjecture fails on every reasonable level.

do i know you "friend"?

 

this is fact over fiction.

I'm not sure if I'm following you here, but are you saying it's a "Fact" that Hasbro is making shoddy figures to drive away sales and eventually just cancel the line?

 

Why on god's green Earth would any business purposly drive away it's buyers? No one person or company would do that. If they want to swap scales on us, they'll just do it, they won't purposly drive away our sales and lose money just to make a change. I'm not attacking you, just disagreeing.

 

Ex. I sell lemonade, everyone loves my lemonade, but I want to cut cost and oranges are cheaper. Do I A) Make crappy Lemonade until I've lost the majority of my buyers and then make the switch or B ) Swap to making orange juice losing only a portion of my loyal customer base that doesn't care for oranges.

That pretty much says it all, JANMUGAR PRIME. You're not supplying 'fact', you're making an assumption, and an illogical one at that. I'm not trying to deny you your opinion, but at least recognize it as such rather than trying to pass it off as a master plan to deprive collectors of their favorite toyline. Despite what would be inferred by what some of the people here say, the Hasbro board of directors is not headed by Cobra Commander.

 

maybe he is, that's why the 25th GIJOES are sooo cooool!!!!!

 

and, mmmmmm....they are 3 3/4".

[Magic 8 Ball]

fact over fiction...

 

history repeats itself again and again.

 

STARWARS 1985: No movies to support the figures, then came the EWOKS and DROIDS cartoon + lesser quality figures = Cancelation of the line.

Here's the problem: very, very few toy properties of that era (and since) had anything that could be called 'success' without some form of media promotion to accompany them. The Ewoks and Droids cartoons were not what many would call 'successful'. And quite frankly, having owned many of the toys you speak of, I fail to see this 'lesser quality' you speak of. More cartoony, yes... but since they were meant to be toys based on the cartoon, that kinda makes sense.

TRANSFORMERS G1 1989: Higher costs of materials = from "normal sized TF" to "micromachines" MICROMASTERS TF. + TF "action masters"=Cancelation of the line.

Many of the things you point to were meant to capitalize on things like the popularity of Micro Machines and the playsets that went along with them, the consistent popularity of action figures, etc, etc. And yes, higher costs of materials did play a factor, but this in no way proves that Hasbro TRIED to kill the line. If anything, continued production and success in Europe after the US line folded, and the attempted reboot of the line through Generation 2 a mere three years after the end of G1 in the US would run counter to your argument here.

GIJOES 1994: From "real" military themed figures, to "NEON" military themed figures = Cancelation of the line.

And it would seem that your 'fact' here is entirely debatable, if not outright wrong.

Yojoe.com FAQ

from high quality to low quality= low interest in the properties (with or without collectors).

I have yet to see any of these examples prove that 'quality' was that killed the lines, and especially that the company INTENDED to kill them through this supposed low quality.

 

Again, if this is your opinion, then fine. I have no arguments with you believing such. It doesn't make sense to me, but that's my opinion, and it's perfectly acceptable for us to have differing ones. My sole issue here is that you are trying to prove 'facts' that have at best speculative evidence and are in actuality your opinion.

[JANMUGAR PRIME]

fact over fiction...

 

history repeats itself again and again.

 

STARWARS 1985: No movies to support the figures, then came the EWOKS and DROIDS cartoon + lesser quality figures = Cancelation of the line.

Here's the problem: very, very few toy properties of that era (and since) had anything that could be called 'success' without some form of media promotion to accompany them. The Ewoks and Droids cartoons were not what many would call 'successful'. And quite frankly, having owned many of the toys you speak of, I fail to see this 'lesser quality' you speak of. More cartoony, yes... but since they were meant to be toys based on the cartoon, that kinda makes sense.

TRANSFORMERS G1 1989: Higher costs of materials = from "normal sized TF" to "micromachines" MICROMASTERS TF. + TF "action masters"=Cancelation of the line.

Many of the things you point to were meant to capitalize on things like the popularity of Micro Machines and the playsets that went along with them, the consistent popularity of action figures, etc, etc. And yes, higher costs of materials did play a factor, but this in no way proves that Hasbro TRIED to kill the line. If anything, continued production and success in Europe after the US line folded, and the attempted reboot of the line through Generation 2 a mere three years after the end of G1 in the US would run counter to your argument here.

GIJOES 1994: From "real" military themed figures, to "NEON" military themed figures = Cancelation of the line.

And it would seem that your 'fact' here is entirely debatable, if not outright wrong.

Yojoe.com FAQ

from high quality to low quality= low interest in the properties (with or without collectors).

I have yet to see any of these examples prove that 'quality' was that killed the lines, and especially that the company INTENDED to kill them through this supposed low quality.

 

Again, if this is your opinion, then fine. I have no arguments with you believing such. It doesn't make sense to me, but that's my opinion, and it's perfectly acceptable for us to have differing ones. My sole issue here is that you are trying to prove 'facts' that have at best speculative evidence and are in actuality your opinion.

 

 

in MY OPINION: quality= sculpt, design, paint applications, package, bonus items, etc.

 

the Toybiz ML were known to be all that and even more....improvement in articulation. back in the 90's, we had extremely well sculpted and painted SH "action figs". i.e. BATMAN:TOTAL JUSTICE, but besides all the characters that could have been produced, KENNER killed the line in the behalf of the BATMAN:TAS toys; When fans spoke back then through several media, we at least had some boxsets with nothing more better than repaints of the previous figures, along with some poorly retooled new charachters.

 

The rest is history.

 

The HASBRO ML. lack severily in paint applications, articulation and other features that all the TOYBIZ ML had, if its not a repaint, then it's not a better figure. i.e. 1st. app CAP. A. or even BUCKY from HASBRO series III.

 

one more thing...how many ML will HASBRO produce for this year?, ....where's wave IV.

 

The marketing "idea" of the ML is nothing to what it used to be, that's why we all feared what would happen when HASBRO acquired the license. the MARVEL SH Squad are really cool toys, but aimed for younger kids or hardcore collectors, the movies line moves towards the 6 inch and backwards to the 5inch format, as a collector...how do you collect those, if it's not separately.

 

If they try to introduce a 3 3/4" MARVEL SH line, then it should stick to that format; if the 6-7 inch format is going to continue, then HASBRO should upgrade the quality of the figures, if not to copy what TOYBIZ had.

 

I still want a ML HELMUT ZEMO and a Secret Wars Boxset with 6 inch figures, but if it's going to be thrash, then i'll finish to custom my own collection and let HASBRO to surprise me with something fresh and new.

[Magic 8 Ball]

in MY OPINION: quality= sculpt, design, paint applications, package, bonus items, etc.

 

the Toybiz ML were known to be all that and even more....improvement in articulation. back in the 90's, we had extremely well sculpted and painted SH "action figs". i.e. BATMAN:TOTAL JUSTICE, but besides all the characters that could have been produced, KENNER killed the line in the behalf of the BATMAN:TAS toys; When fans spoke back then through several media, we at least had some boxsets with nothing more better than repaints of the previous figures, along with some poorly retooled new charachters.

 

The rest is history.

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

The HASBRO ML. lack severily in paint applications, articulation and other features that all the TOYBIZ ML had, if its not a repaint, then it's not a better figure. i.e. 1st. app CAP. A. or even BUCKY from HASBRO series III.

The former was a Hasbro mold, the latter was a Toy Biz mold.

 

And if you're dead-set that nothing Hasbro can make will be better, then that will be the case for you. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Hasbro has had a few... imperfect figures. So did Toy Biz. But some people like figures that others do not. Personally, I love the Hasbro Mr. Fantastic, Marvel Girl, and Astonishing Cyclops... but I've heard many disparaging remarks about them. A few of the figures I like (Cyclops, for example) are actually so much better (IMO) than comparable TB products that I just don't understand the claims of some form of Hasbro secret agenda.

one more thing...how many ML will HASBRO produce for this year?, ....where's wave IV.

See, and this is always the fallback position of those who want to 'prove' that Hasbro doesn't care. "If they loved us, they'd give us series 4."

 

Your guess is as good as mine. I'm probably just as annoyed about not having it as you are. But that doesn't prove to me that Hasbro has some conspiracy against the paying customer.

 

As far as how many they'll produce: Wave 4, eight 2-packs, two waves of Hulk figures, and Ka-Zar/Shanna are all on the docket. That's 32 figures, without counting BAFs, Zabu, variants, assuming that we'll see series 5, or including things like the Iron Man movie and Spider-Man lines (Puma and Tarantula have been named).

 

Will this bear out? Will we get all these figures? I have no clue... but I don't think not knowing means that Hasbro hates 6" figures.

The marketing "idea" of the ML is nothing to what it used to be, that's why we all feared what would happen when HASBRO acquired the license. the MARVEL SH Squad are really cool toys, but aimed for younger kids or hardcore collectors, the movies line moves towards the 6 inch and backwards to the 5inch format, as a collector...how do you collect those, if it's not separately.

To be frank, Hasbro pretty much expected that collectors wanted comic toys. As I've said before, they overestimated kids and underestimated collectors. Now we have most of the movie figures 6", and even special 6" figures when they're not (Hulk)... and you're still acting like there's some master plan in place to drive us away.

 

As to the marketing 'idea'... what about it has changed? What, exactly? Hasbro is doing many of the same things and making many of the same mistakes and successes that Toy Biz did. Should they have paid more attention to TB? Well, yeah... but can you blame the largest toy company in the US for assuming they knew better than a failing third-string competitor, and trying out some of their own ideas?

If they try to introduce a 3 3/4" MARVEL SH line, then it should stick to that format; if the 6-7 inch format is going to continue, then HASBRO should upgrade the quality of the figures, if not to copy what TOYBIZ had.

 

I still want a ML HELMUT ZEMO and a Secret Wars Boxset with 6 inch figures, but if it's going to be thrash, then i'll finish to custom my own collection and let HASBRO to surprise me with something fresh and new.

I find myself in complete agreement with this. I'm just not going to act like the sky is falling. Maybe sour grapes after the fact, but I'd rather turn pessimistic because I KNOW I've been let down rather than because I think I MIGHT be.

[ARROW]

QUOTE(JANMUGAR PRIME @ Mar 29 2008, 06:34 PM)

in MY OPINION: quality= sculpt, design, paint applications, package, bonus items, etc.

 

the Toybiz ML were known to be all that and even more....improvement in articulation. back in the 90's, we had extremely well sculpted and painted SH "action figs". i.e. BATMAN:TOTAL JUSTICE, but besides all the characters that could have been produced, KENNER killed the line in the behalf of the BATMAN:TAS toys; When fans spoke back then through several media, we at least had some boxsets with nothing more better than repaints of the previous figures, along with some poorly retooled new charachters.

 

The rest is history.

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

I don't either.

He went from "facts" to an "opinion", and then stated it was all "history".

 

Sounds like utter fiction to me....

[shokker]

what do we know how the figures hasbro does, are selling or not? every one can check our stores sure but still we dont know. hasbro are the ones who know if everything they do is worth it. they are trying the market right now just to see what is selling. this is the only reason that they try so many scales. thats what i think. i have a lot of toystores around me and guess what? some sold a lot of spiderman3 figures and others didnt even move. in my shop they didnt sell at first but after christmas i just have 10 figures left in 3 shops and we had over 100 figures in stock. so i think that is not that bad? as i say we dont know the numbers. in my toyshop they even have great toybiz figs left. figs like abomination, black heart, omega red, sinister, ghost rider, bishop. i mean in my eyes those figs would be gone a long time ago and yet they are pegwarmers around here. crazy world after all @jump# @jump# @jump#

 

 

now for the thread. i would love to see 3 3/4. why not? i would just get the spiderman figs because i , just like others cant spend so many money on 10 different marvel scales. i have a great marvel legends 6" collection and if they would stop, then they stop. i would be sad, angry, mad (and sure as hell blame hasbro @firedevil@ ) but i will not start all over again. all my childhood i was a marvel geek and marvel legends was in some ways the crown of my collection. specialy spiderman figs. now i am a grown man and i realise that there are other things in life that are more important. sure i wont loose my connection with my hobby. i grew up with it and i can be happy to have a girlfriend who even support my hobby. i love spiderman. i will support him in any way and dont forget, there can always be a brand new day @loll@