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The chances of a re-boot


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That problem with things not working 10 to 15 years later happens in all comic books though. That's the whole reason why characters don't age much or at all. It's just alot more noticible for GI Joe when you have something like a real war to base the timeframe off of.

 

Even if they threw out an old war with Joes in it they will still have that problem with anything they do.

 

 

That's the basic conflict of comics. They only come out once a month, and rarely does one issue cover a month worth of a character's life. Typically four or six issues only cover a few hours or a few days. So many years of a comic's publication only account for a year or so of the character's fictional life. That's the unavoidable truth of comics.

 

And that's a responsibility which falls on the writers. If the objective is a sustained, on-going series that can run indefinitely, writers should shy away from concrete dates, easily dated references, and other things that denote the passage of time. Looking at the IDW Transformers series, they've been publishing for over three years now, and the plot has advanced only a month or two over that time.

 

Furman and the IDW crew are pretty good at making the time thing work. It'd be nice if the same thing happened with GIJoe.

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Some people actually like a number of characters introduced in the DDP run, and like they way they were used (Kamakura comes to mind) and would want good stories like Snake-Eyes Declassified,

 

SE declassified was a good story that was ruined by the 'idea' that SE and CC knew each other before Cobra started. That was trash and it makes me regret the DD story lines even more.

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Some people actually like a number of characters introduced in the DDP run, and like they way they were used (Kamakura comes to mind) and would want good stories like Snake-Eyes Declassified,

 

SE declassified was a good story that was ruined by the 'idea' that SE and CC knew each other before Cobra started. That was trash and it makes me regret the DD story lines even more.

 

 

Well, part of the "ugly" side of GIJOE, especially the comics, is that its really a soap opera. Serialize any fiction for any length of time and its inevitable.

Fore example:

Snake-eyes wants to marry Scarlet, but he's convinced they will never live a life of peace until his conflict with Stormshadow is resolved, but that's difficult because Stormshadow is in the thralls of COBRA. Stormshadow, meanwhile, has standing orders to kill Snake-eyes on sight, but is conflicted because Scarlet has somehow passed a message along to him that reveals some information that causes Stormshadow to reevaluate his anger towards Snake-eyes. In the background, COBRA Commander is aware of this, and schemes to somehow use this to his advantage, by possibly directing Stormshadow against some of this other enemies.

Unbeknownst to him, Destro is secretly gathering his forces, making deals with the Dreadnoks on the sly.

A mole in the COBRA organiztion is leaking all of this to Duke, who must decide to reveal it to the Jugglers, who may or may not grant him the resources he and the team need to lauch a decisive...........

 

And through all this, Shipwreck is concerned about Polly's excessive molting, mostly on Flint's bunk and....

Soapy, huh?

 

The only thing missing from it being an episode of Eastenders is each of them sleeping with the other, and having someone pinch the silverware...

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Some people actually like a number of characters introduced in the DDP run, and like they way they were used (Kamakura comes to mind) and would want good stories like Snake-Eyes Declassified,

 

SE declassified was a good story that was ruined by the 'idea' that SE and CC knew each other before Cobra started. That was trash and it makes me regret the DD story lines even more.

 

 

Well, part of the "ugly" side of GIJOE, especially the comics, is that its really a soap opera. Serialize any fiction for any length of time and its inevitable.

Fore example:

Snake-eyes wants to marry Scarlet, but he's convinced they will never live a life of peace until his conflict with Stormshadow is resolved, but that's difficult because Stormshadow is in the thralls of COBRA. Stormshadow, meanwhile, has standing orders to kill Snake-eyes on sight, but is conflicted because Scarlet has somehow passed a message along to him that reveals some information that causes Stormshadow to reevaluate his anger towards Snake-eyes. In the background, COBRA Commander is aware of this, and schemes to somehow use this to his advantage, by possibly directing Stormshadow against some of this other enemies.

Unbeknownst to him, Destro is secretly gathering his forces, making deals with the Dreadnoks on the sly.

A mole in the COBRA organiztion is leaking all of this to Duke, who must decide to reveal it to the Jugglers, who may or may not grant him the resources he and the team need to lauch a decisive...........

 

And through all this, Shipwreck is concerned about Polly's excessive molting, mostly on Flint's bunk and....

Soapy, huh?

 

The only thing missing from it being an episode of Eastenders is each of them sleeping with the other, and having someone pinch the silverware...

 

Sure, but I just hated the way DD went back and rewrote Joe (Comic) history. That being said a reboot or dropping the DD continuity would give me interest in picking up the new line.

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Sure, but I just hated the way DD went back and rewrote Joe (Comic) history. That being said a reboot or dropping the DD continuity would give me interest in picking up the new line.

 

What part of Joe history? Sure they added a bit more, but SE's connections to CC and the Baroness were there in Marvels run. Sure the whole "robin Hood" bit between CC and SE were new and a little far fetched but it's nothing really too far outside of the realm of possiblity considering how many other characters have connections to one another.

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Sure, but I just hated the way DD went back and rewrote Joe (Comic) history. That being said a reboot or dropping the DD continuity would give me interest in picking up the new line.

 

Actually, Brandon really *fixed* a poorly written part of the Marvel book. When Larry Hama gave Cobra Commanderan origin in #84, he did so posthumously. It didn't particularly matter, because the origin was never meant to provide motivation after it was revealed - because the character was dead!

 

Once the Commander came back, he suddenly had this relationship with Snake-Eyes he never had before. We had to accept that his junkie brother, Dan, killed Snake-Eyes' whole family and Cobra Commander was just so unstable that he blamed Snake-Eyes for it! That's a big leap. Brandon added a much needed chapter to that story, a point of natural progression:

 

Cobra Commander's brother kills the Snake-Eyeses family. CC seeks out Snake-Eyes, feeling a kinship to him via their mutual loss. After they've bonded and done a little Robin Hooding, CC takes them both to the person *he* blames for starting the event: the judge that screwed up his brother's post-Nam career. It may have been a bit hackneyed, but at least CC blamed someone who *did* something, and not an oblivious bystander (and fellow victim). Once Snake-Eyes refused to kill the judge, it gave CC the right to hate SE, no matter that it *still* wasn't his fault. But at least it was an action he took that caused CC to hate him, precipitating the assassination plot the ended with the Hard Master's murder.

 

Now, it's your opinion and taste, so if you don't like it, that's your perogative. DDP did a lot of alteration and retconning to the Marvel series... I just happen to think this one worked.

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That problem with things not working 10 to 15 years later happens in all comic books though. That's the whole reason why characters don't age much or at all. It's just alot more noticible for GI Joe when you have something like a real war to base the timeframe off of.

 

Even if they threw out an old war with Joes in it they will still have that problem with anything they do.

 

 

That's the basic conflict of comics. They only come out once a month, and rarely does one issue cover a month worth of a character's life. Typically four or six issues only cover a few hours or a few days. So many years of a comic's publication only account for a year or so of the character's fictional life. That's the unavoidable truth of comics.

 

And that's a responsibility which falls on the writers. If the objective is a sustained, on-going series that can run indefinitely, writers should shy away from concrete dates, easily dated references, and other things that denote the passage of time. Looking at the IDW Transformers series, they've been publishing for over three years now, and the plot has advanced only a month or two over that time.

 

Furman and the IDW crew are pretty good at making the time thing work. It'd be nice if the same thing happened with GIJoe.

 

That's true, but can you do it over a 30-40 year period? DC couldn't... Marvel couldn't, sort of...

 

Eventually, after a generation or two, the characters themselves often aren't even relevant anymore to an audience that is used to something else, something newer. You can ignore the backstory to a certain degree, but after a while you might just want to start over. When it concerns a specific point of time, like the Vietnam war for example, and keeps coming up because of the interactions between some of the story's major characters, well...

 

It might be better to set a rewritten version in an unspecified, black ops type mission, then again setting it in Iraq or Afghanistan or something like that might make it seem more real to the audience. I know that some of the details in the GI Joe file cards, for example, add a lot of realism to what otherwise might seem more Sigma Six-ish, like Duke's detailed background in the special forces during Vietnam. I think I'd rather see them do a rewrite with a specific conflict in mind...

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I, for one, will not buy a reboot. Period. I tried reading the IDW Transformers series and just couldn't get into it. Especially with the movie coming out I felt like there were too many continuities, and none as good as the G1 continuity. Now, if they had done a G1 comic based off of the CARTOON continuity, that I would have bought in an instant. Hell, they could have rebooted that and retold the stories in a more realistic manner. But a new retelling? No thanks.

 

For Joe, the comic's continuity is fine as it is. Sure, I hate the fact that they killed Lady Jaye and other characters. But I'm not ready to scrap 25 years of stories in exchange for a Reloaded piece of garbage. Everyone is blasting the new movie before they even see it for taking "liberties" in updating the Joes. Why would anyone want another modern retelling? If that's what people really want, they'd have bought Reloaded in the first place.

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I tried reading the IDW Transformers series and just couldn't get into it. Especially with the movie coming out I felt like there were too many continuities, and none as good as the G1 continuity.

 

Personally, I find the Carwash of Doom to be a moment that defined how bad many of the Marvel Transformer comics were. Even when Furman took over, there was a level of lameness to the book, probably because the later-day characters were the focus of many issues, while the standard characters like Prime and Megatron were involved in these hopeless convoluted storylines based on their mutal demises early on via Hasbro mandate.

 

The IDW G1 continuity seems to be very popular with those who read it. I'm one of them. It sidesteps a lot of the blatantly bad stuff from G1 while incorporating a little bit of everything that worked.

 

 

Now, if they had done a G1 comic based off of the CARTOON continuity, that I would have bought in an instant. Hell, they could have rebooted that and retold the stories in a more realistic manner. But a new retelling? No thanks.

 

I have a question for fans who think a retelling of anything would sell. How would that work? Retreading the same exact material, just giving it a different tone? Firstly, there's no drama if you know the outcome of every issue. And if you change the ending to create drama, you were better off doing a brand new story. So how exactly does that work.

 

Secodly, Dreamwave already did an adaptation/continuation/retelling of the G1 cartoon. It was a piece of utter crap.

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What keeps me bumping and bumping in my head is why are there some many folks like some of you here in this forum, that believe that a "REBOOT" of some, or any, pre-stablished storyline is a right thing!.

 

In NO WAY there should be a reboot for the GIJOEs comic book continuum; if you consider a change, or that something needs to be changed, then take a pen or a PC and write a letter to the editor in any Company, that is.

 

The storylines need to evolve gradually, if you are placing them in real time, then the characters will age and then there will come the new blood, to fill the former place; If characters die, then it's reflecting life itself. War is War and the joes are, and will always be; at War. Thats their reason to exist as an Elite Unit.

 

The IDW company did some hard damage to the Transformers Universe, don´t you dare to support any "NEW" continuity like what happened to the TF´s; Even DC Comics, the creators behind all the INFINITE UNIVERSES, are already tired of the idea and bringing it to an end.

 

Please, whoever wins the GIJOE comic book license, show some respect and continue the history of the JOES mythos.

 

What would George Lucas think, if the SW fans wanted a "reboot" of his Masterpiece?.

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As much as I don't want a reboot I think it wil ultimately be up to Hasbro, not IDW or whoever get the Joe book. If IDW wants a reboot and can make Hasbro go along with it that's what will happen, if Hasbro wants to continue in some way with the current continuity then that's what will happen. It just so happens that Josh Blaylock thought that continuing from the marvel Run when starting the DDP run was the way to go.

 

As for the Star Wars reference, I've always thought the big thing that made the new trilogy so hated by many original fans is the fact that we (the fans) had twenty plus years to make up our own versions of what happened before Eps 4. Nothing could top or compete with that o matter how good it was. My nieces and nephews love the new trilogy and are all under the ages of 12. Sorry to go OT.

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What keeps me bumping and bumping in my head is why are there some many folks like some of you here in this forum, that believe that a "REBOOT" of some, or any, pre-stablished storyline is a right thing!.

 

People will always have different opinions than you. You can't go nuts over it. just accept that you have one opinion, and someone else doesn't agree. It'll hurt a lot less.

 

Arguing/discussing on a message board, I've learned to present my opinions, back them up with facts, and leave it at that. Trying to bend someone to your way of thinking is militant and self-serving. I know Arrow and I don't agree on most things. I just hope that he understands my stance, and disagrees with what I actually think, and not some misunderstood variation of things.

 

That said, I support a reboot because it's futile to demand something one way or the other. If Hasbro or IDW decide on a reboot, I'll support them. if they decide to keep the continuity going for a 27th year, I'll support them. The point is I'll accept it either way, and give any new GIJoe book a chance. Because whether it's ongoing, rebooted or whatever, it's still G.I.Joe.

 

In NO WAY there should be a reboot for the GIJOEs comic book continuum; if you consider a change, or that something needs to be changed, then take a pen or a PC and write a letter to the editor in any Company, that is.

 

Dear IDW. Please don't reboot GIJoe. Signed, Straight-Edge

Dear Straight-Edge. Not our call. Hasbro made the decision. Signed, IDW.

 

Dear Hasbro. Please don't reboot GIJoe. Signed, Straight-Edge

Dear Straight-Edge. You're 29! Seriously, get a job! Sincerly, Hasbro.

 

Yeah, when a corporation is making a decision about the future of a brand as popular/long-lasting as GIJoe, a few customers with pens aren't going to change their minds.

 

The storylines need to evolve gradually, if you are placing them in real time, then the characters will age and then there will come the new blood, to fill the former place;

 

Sorry, but that will never happen. Hasbro stopped Devil's Due from going in that direction, forcing a mandate that the iconic Joes like Duke, Snake-eyes, Scarlett, Storm Shadow, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, and Zartan all stay Evergreen and in the forefront of any licensed media. So the idea of real-time comics is out the window, permanently. It's just the way it is.

 

The IDW company did some hard damage to the Transformers Universe, don´t you dare to support any "NEW" continuity like what happened to the TF´s

 

I love the new Transformers, and I'll love IDW's G.I.Joe if it's of the same high quality. You're coming across like a self-important snob, or worse: a troll.

 

And don't you dare threaten any fan of GIJoe because they don't share your opinion!

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Sorry I don´t agree with you, HASBRO does toys, and Comic book writers do the background of those characters (toys), that´s why they have become pop culture icons.

 

And as for SW, the 3 new movies are precuels, besides EPIII didn´t appealed to me to be kid oriented, but aimed to the FANS, that´s it.

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Arguing/discussing on a message board, I've learned to present my opinions, back them up with facts, and leave it at that. Trying to bend someone to your way of thinking is militant and self-serving. I know Arrow and I don't agree on most things. I just hope that he understands my stance, and disagrees with what I actually think, and not some misunderstood variation of things.

 

You'd probably be surprised on the numbers of things we do agree on. We are here for the toys, a common interest, not to butt heads--so that's always a solid place to start off from. I'll tip my hat and respect a impassioned POV any day, but I'm also equally impassioned.

 

Dear IDW. Please don't reboot GIJoe. Signed, Straight-Edge

Dear Straight-Edge. Not our call. Hasbro made the decision. Signed, IDW.

 

Dear Hasbro. Please don't reboot GIJoe. Signed, Straight-Edge

Dear Straight-Edge. You're 29! Seriously, get a job! Sincerly, Hasbro.

 

LOL!

 

What keeps me bumping and bumping in my head is why are there some many folks like some of you here in this forum, that believe that a "REBOOT" of some, or any, pre-stablished storyline is a right thing!.

In NO WAY there should be a reboot for the GIJOEs comic book continuum; if you consider a change, or that something needs to be changed, then take a pen or a PC and write a letter to the editor in any Company, that is.

 

 

Thing is, a reboot is more than likely--its to be expected. The movie is going to be the likely paradigm from this point on, and there's a lot of good business sense in it, and well as need to clear up some of the stories.

Let's face it, some of the characters in GIJOE are hopelessly convoluted.

Acknowledging a storypoint from the Marvel comics as motivation for something in these new comics can be a royal pain--mostly because you'd then have to go back to those old comics, read the story and get the gist of things. That's a bad way to do business.

With the new license, regardless of who it goes to....make the continuity self-contained. That makes it easier to get on-board, easier to attract new readers ( who would be intimidated by 25 years of backstory that they'd have to track down and read) and better to make more relevant.

 

That's the other thing at play here that Straight-Edge touched upon: the relevancy of the stories.

Its 2008 now, not the 1980's. The Joes in those early stories came from Vietnam. Most of them were assumed to be in their mid-20's in those stories, and then in their mid-30's while starting on the Joe Team.

Add 25 years.

Snake-eyes would be 55-60 if you ran the continuity from then to today, and you'd still expect him to be doing the ninja chop-socky stuff?

Choose to set the story a few years back locks you into a technologial holding-cell that denies the stories of some REALLY cool tech being used/developed today. ( Watch Futureweapons on the Military channel to see what's in play here). It also denies you the use of real-world stories that up the relevancy AND the rapport with todays readers.

You can use all that and more with a reboot.

 

The storylines need to evolve gradually, if you are placing them in real time, then the characters will age and then there will come the new blood, to fill the former place; If characters die, then it's reflecting life itself. War is War

 

Then you are talking a reboot anyway, with all new characters that are spun-off or completely different from the originals. You lose the associative relevancy with the original characters that way.

Hands up, how many folks want to see the son/daughter of Snake-eyes running about fighting the son/daughter of COBRA Commander?

 

No?

It'd be cheezy, right?

 

How many people want some character that has NOTHING to do with Snake-eyes come about and fight a wholly new bad guy that's got NOTHING to do with COBRA Commander? Completelt new characters with new code-names and new back stories.

 

No? It'd not be GIJOE then, would it?

I'd gather most people would want to read stories about the characters they KNOW--like Snake-eyes and COBRA Commander--not some flimsy copy-cats or spin-offs.

 

Again, that's why a reboot is the only sensible way to apporoach this.

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I believe i've been misread, if the reboot consist in overriding or partially droping the background or completely altering the background of an stablished story, then i'm out.

If the storyline gets ,in this case, a new approach refreshing old characters with new scenarios and looking forwards instead that returning to starting point, then I'M IN!

 

By example, In the Batman TAS and Batman Beyond, you see how further a legend can grow, meeting an honorable "end" to an specific character and fullfilling his legacy in new heights, always with shocking revelations AND REMEMBERING WHERE DID THEY COME FROM, and not twisting the roots.

 

It's a different media, maybe this how it would be accepted when the movie comes out, but in the comicbook pages lets hope GIJOE (Marvel/DDP) gets what it deserves.

 

Joe Colton will always be the 1st. GIJOE. Snake Eyes will always be the Ninja/Commando that forged his legend with the help of constant continuity in his background.

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I for one would like good stories period! Though, if the movie is going to have a lot of the hasbro themes I doubt that they would get rid of that continuity. To me it wouldn't be good business. I am more interested in who is going to write it. I think Casey ended up killing the franchise. If DD's current team had been writing AE from the beginning they might have been better off. I for one could totally disregard some of DD's worse story lines, like SE dying and being resurrected as bad.

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I believe i've been misread, if the reboot consist in overriding or partially droping the background or completely altering the background of an stablished story, then i'm out.

 

It's a different media, maybe this how it would be accepted when the movie comes out, but in the comicbook pages lets hope GIJOE (Marvel/DDP) gets what it deserves.

Which will happen, Arrow pretty much covered the reasons why. But on a fundamental level, GI Joe will NOT change. Snake Eyes will still be a badass Ninja/Commando. Zartan will still be leader of the Dreadnoks and Master of Disguise. Duke will still lead GI Joe with Hawk above him. The series WILL be about GI Joe, a top secret special forces team, fighting the forces of Cobra, an organization determined to rule the world.

 

But with a new continuity, they are free to drop the hopelessly convoluted Snake Eyes/Storm Shadow/Zartan/Firefly/Cobra Commander origin stories. They will have free reign with any of the franchise's 25 years of characters. They won't be locked into having to take into effect some downright stupid decisions made in past for toy purposes (Ninja Force anyone?) or for shock value (Lady Jaye's death).

 

For comic intended to help sell a line of military toys, it has been freakin' AMAZING that they've actually managed to keep a consistant continuity for the past 25 years. I think the Marvel/DDP run has gotten what it deserved several times over, but maybe it is time to see what NEW writers with *gasp* fresh ideas without being bogged down in 25 years of continuity might do with GI Joe.

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But on a fundamental level, GI Joe will NOT change. Snake Eyes will still be a badass Ninja/Commando. Zartan will still be leader of the Dreadnoks and Master of Disguise. Duke will still lead GI Joe with Hawk above him. The series WILL be about GI Joe, a top secret special forces team, fighting the forces of Cobra, an organization determined to rule the world.

 

Amen.

 

For comic intended to help sell a line of military toys, it has been freakin' AMAZING that they've actually managed to keep a consistant continuity for the past 25 years. I think the Marvel/DDP run has gotten what it deserved several times over, but maybe it is time to see what NEW writers with *gasp* fresh ideas without being bogged down in 25 years of continuity might do with GI Joe.

 

Here's an idea to example from:

The last 40 years of military history is pretty rich, consider there's a lot of small scale/low intensity conflicts and shadow-wars, which works because its the literal history of counter terror units and GIJOE is supposed to be just that.

The stories can draw from real-historical events, but address them metaphorical.....as parables almost.

 

Here's what I mean:

Have GIJOE founded much the same way as the famed GSG-9 was founded, borne from the tragedies of the Munich Massacre. Perhaps add in a bit of Operation Eagle Claw ( Desert One-failed Iranian Hostage rescue) and you have the impetus for the team.

Aagin, these would be metaphorically analogies to those real events.

A ad-hoc team could flub a rescue mission of athletes held by a early COBRA cell--perhaps in a foreign land. This forces the government ( perhaps the UN in this case) to create a dedicated counter-terror unit cleared to operate almost anywhere.

There's first success could be like Operation Nimrod ( Princess Gate-Iranian Embassy seige in London) or Operation Thunderbolt ( Entebbe rescue)

From there, the arc could combine/intermingle some of the classic GIJOE arcs with other real events.

You could have the silent interlude (redux) or the Springfield operation stories etc. but combine it with elements of the Oklahoma City Bombing, or the USS Stark incident.

 

You could retell the Battle of Mirbat, instead with the Joes in an outpost surrounded by advancing COBRAs. The real-life event had nail-biting drama to it--just transpose the same sense of drama and similar events--instant story.

 

I mean, it'd be a interesting run for the characters if the USS Flagg sails into a harbour and speedboat sails up and blows a hole in its side. How would the characters deal with that, knowing them as we do? Can that contex be applied to GIJOE--possibly.

That's not to say that GIJOE?COBRA should relive/retell the past 40 years of militray history in distorted story form, BUT........those events can be a springboard.

You could do the spectacular stuff too, and the bizarre--the Richard Rose "shoe-bomber" thing--just spin it differently.

Instead of ramming planes into buildings, it could be liquid natural gas tankers blown up in a city harbour. Not necessarily realistic all the time, just....different and interesting.

Imagine, for example....a Joe team in Europe, coming across a mass-grave full of children. Maybe the fingers point at COBRA........maybe not.....how would the characters react? Maybe COBRA is innocent of the atrocity....and therein is a twist to a story.

 

This is something that prior GIJOE comics never really went into too much ( mostly because a lot of the readers are as unaware of military history as most other folks are). It would provide a different vehicle for the material, possibly something a bit more timely......hopefully something more interesting than.....ahem, Bongo the Balloon Bear and the White Clown.....

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I have heard that IDW has the comic license. Is this true?

 

Not true, it's still being kept under wraps as to who is getting it. I hope it goes back to Marvel and they basically start over keeping certain aspects of the original Marvel stories.

 

Not really under wraps anymore! From what I have heard over and over IDW the same people doin transformers (who I love there art work) got it already!

On another note I really hope they do kinda "start over" for the fact that someone already stated, they keep killin of people..... like chuckles WTF that was one of my fav characters!

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I have heard that IDW has the comic license. Is this true?

 

Not true, it's still being kept under wraps as to who is getting it. I hope it goes back to Marvel and they basically start over keeping certain aspects of the original Marvel stories.

 

Not really under wraps anymore! From what I have heard over and over IDW the same people doin transformers (who I love there art work) got it already!

On another note I really hope they do kinda "start over" for the fact that someone already stated, they keep killin of people..... like chuckles WTF that was one of my fav characters!

 

I think he ment there's been no official announcement.

 

-Kevin

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I like Arrow's idea a lot! I so go for it. Either way a reboot need sto happen as Lady J does not need to be dead and I doubt Hasbro wants her dead if they are going to be pushing GI JOE so much.

Draven

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