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BAFs: ML VS DCUC


pastwatch2001

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hey man.. somebody has to do the dirty work... we can't all just be peachy all the time.. or else all of our toys would suck.

 

"oh wow a toy! Thank you toy makers for making a toy for me!"

 

lol... thats a lot of what you see from other people... and those people don't care about what kind of toy they get.

 

 

complaining works... flat out.

Oh, no doubt it does. We know Hasbro checks out the boards, so they definitely see what everyone likes and what doesn't fly. I'd imagine more companies than just them do the same, too.

 

It just seems that you have harsher critiques than most, which is why I was wondering what your example of a perfect figure would be, whether it be a Hasbro Legend, ToyBiz Legend or from a different line entirely. I really don't recall you ever making a comment around the lines of "Wow, _____ really nailed it!" So I was curious as to who your pinnacle of toy perfection is.

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(I am sick and tired of the ML "crazy hips" where the ball is anchored to the top of the figure instead of the side). \

 

 

While I agree with Alexx about the terrible hips that Hasbro uses on there figures, I am impresed with the DCU stuff. I don't really need 30 -plus points of articulation on every figure. Once Mattel fixes the mid-thigh cut they should be good. The figures, for the most part, look great.

 

Also Matel is known for using the same mold over and overr: Barbie, Masters of the Universe, Batman, etc., so that is something collectors will have to deal with, the same with the closed hands, but all in all, it gives my ML figures someone else to beat up on. @loll@

 

Can't wait for Grundy, Firestorm, and Deathstroke.

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there baf are crap. we complain about hasbro/tb baf size, their version is the same size as the regular figures. and the articulation is lower as well. they look good but that just it.

Toy companies are starting to realize that higher articulation doesnt mean squat if the figures look like poo and don't stay together. and have you seen pics of grundy? he is about twice as big as the regular figures. 'morpho was the same size because he came with three different snap on parts, and the figures are all sculpted by the same group of people, which means they look like they belong on the shelf, unlike the twelve some odd sculpters for ML. heres a pic of grundy for ya:

 

hal_vs_grundy.jpg

 

and grodd:

 

 

DCC2GroddSupComp1.jpg

 

edit: ive been working on finding out how many of the ML figures are re-used/tooled bodies instead of new ones, and i will split them up into the body they are based on (variants and box-sets dont count)

 

ML1 Iron Man:

Magneto

Silver Centurion Iron Man

War Machine

 

ML5 Silver Surfer:

SMC6 Daredevil

ML6 Deadpool

ML7 Vision

ML10 Angel

XMC Archangel

MLFO2 Mandarin (under the robe)

XMC Iceman

 

ML9 Bullseye:

ML11 Taskmaster

ML15 Moon Knight

ML15 Captain Marvel

WML Havok

HML2 Quicksilver

HML2 Yellowjacket

HML4 Nova

 

ML10 Black Panther

ML11 Wonder Man

WML Sentry

WML Captain Britain

 

SMC Spider-Man (the first one)

SMC Blk. Spidey

SMC Daredevil

SMC Scarlet Spider

SMC Spider-Man 2099

ML2 Human Torch

 

and thats not counting the ones that were used for only two figures like mr. fantastic and blk. spidey.

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hey man.. somebody has to do the dirty work... we can't all just be peachy all the time.. or else all of our toys would suck.

 

"oh wow a toy! Thank you toy makers for making a toy for me!"

 

lol... thats a lot of what you see from other people... and those people don't care about what kind of toy they get.

 

 

complaining works... flat out.

Oh, no doubt it does. We know Hasbro checks out the boards, so they definitely see what everyone likes and what doesn't fly. I'd imagine more companies than just them do the same, too.

 

It just seems that you have harsher critiques than most, which is why I was wondering what your example of a perfect figure would be, whether it be a Hasbro Legend, ToyBiz Legend or from a different line entirely. I really don't recall you ever making a comment around the lines of "Wow, _____ really nailed it!" So I was curious as to who your pinnacle of toy perfection is.

 

 

I am harsher than most critiques.... because we had a great line... something that wasn't broke and didn't need to be changed. And Hasbro comes along and sticks their igorant thumbs all over it and messes it up. Yes, Hasbro has better quality control than Toybiz did.... but they aren't making very detailed or difficult figures.. so who cares.

 

we wanted Hasbro to continue Toybiz's line and add their own trademark quality into th mix.. no need for cheesy faces, bad or no paint detail, ##$%$#ed articulation styles, bad designs.. etc.

 

for a perfect Hasbro figure, you will have to go back to the 2006 San Diego Comic Con. Check out Thor, Quicksilver, She Hulk, Yellowjacket, Xorn, and Blob. But by the time these figures made it to the production stage, they had been altered big time. Different head sculpts, different paint apps, and cheese added all over them.

 

check out Hasbro's perfect Quicksilver. Is this what your quicksilver looks like?

IMG_2226.jpg

 

you can see the whole album of Hasbro's GOOD wave 2 figures here

 

and thats the last time you ever saw a good Hasbro figure. Now they suck even at the prototype stage.

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there baf are crap. we complain about hasbro/tb baf size, their version is the same size as the regular figures. and the articulation is lower as well. they look good but that just it.

Toy companies are starting to realize that higher articulation doesnt mean squat if the figures look like poo and don't stay together. and have you seen pics of grundy? he is about twice as big as the regular figures. 'morpho was the same size because he came with three different snap on parts, and the figures are all sculpted by the same group of people, which means they look like they belong on the shelf, unlike the twelve some odd sculpters for ML. heres a pic of grundy for ya:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: ive been working on finding out how many of the ML figures are re-used/tooled bodies instead of new ones, and i will split them up into the body they are based on (variants and box-sets dont count)

 

ML1 Iron Man:

Magneto

Silver Centurion Iron Man

War Machine

 

ML5 Silver Surfer:

SMC6 Daredevil

ML6 Deadpool

ML7 Vision

ML10 Angel

XMC Archangel

MLFO2 Mandarin (under the robe)

XMC Iceman

 

ML9 Bullseye:

ML11 Taskmaster

ML15 Moon Knight

ML15 Captain Marvel

WML Havok

HML2 Quicksilver

HML2 Yellowjacket

HML4 Nova

 

ML10 Black Panther

ML11 Wonder Man

WML Sentry

WML Captain Britain

 

SMC Spider-Man (the first one)

SMC Blk. Spidey

SMC Daredevil

SMC Scarlet Spider

SMC Spider-Man 2099

ML2 Human Torch

 

and thats not counting the ones that were used for only two figures like mr. fantastic and blk. spidey.

 

 

actually.. the Silver Surfer body isn't used for Archangel and Vision, they share a different body. I am not sure about Mandarin cuz I haven't taken him out of the package yet.

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For me a BAF should be well designed, in sculpt and articulation and paint application, as well as affordable and reasonably split up into numbers (8 is excessive and puts people off) to entice the consumer into having in their collection. Size is a secondary factor for me unlike the importance of the character (Gotta have factor). An example would be like Adam Warlock or Vulcan or the Beyonder or Titanium Man. They are not big, but they are just gotta have. or how cool is it to build like a Starjammer's spacecraft? And display it with other space vehicles like the Enterprise or the Millenium Falcon, etc.

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there baf are crap. we complain about hasbro/tb baf size, their version is the same size as the regular figures. and the articulation is lower as well. they look good but that just it.

Toy companies are starting to realize that higher articulation doesnt mean squat if the figures look like poo and don't stay together. and have you seen pics of grundy? he is about twice as big as the regular figures. 'morpho was the same size because he came with three different snap on parts, and the figures are all sculpted by the same group of people, which means they look like they belong on the shelf, unlike the twelve some odd sculpters for ML. heres a pic of grundy for ya:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: ive been working on finding out how many of the ML figures are re-used/tooled bodies instead of new ones, and i will split them up into the body they are based on (variants and box-sets dont count)

 

ML1 Iron Man:

Magneto

Silver Centurion Iron Man

War Machine

 

ML5 Silver Surfer:

SMC6 Daredevil

ML6 Deadpool

ML7 Vision

ML10 Angel

XMC Archangel

MLFO2 Mandarin (under the robe)

XMC Iceman

 

ML9 Bullseye:

ML11 Taskmaster

ML15 Moon Knight

ML15 Captain Marvel

WML Havok

HML2 Quicksilver

HML2 Yellowjacket

HML4 Nova

 

ML10 Black Panther

ML11 Wonder Man

WML Sentry

WML Captain Britain

 

SMC Spider-Man (the first one)

SMC Blk. Spidey

SMC Daredevil

SMC Scarlet Spider

SMC Spider-Man 2099

ML2 Human Torch

 

and thats not counting the ones that were used for only two figures like mr. fantastic and blk. spidey.

 

 

actually.. the Silver Surfer body isn't used for Archangel and Vision, they share a different body. I am not sure about Mandarin cuz I haven't taken him out of the package yet.

 

was gonna say this too

and mandarin is archangels body,not silver surfers

i really dont think deadpool is the same as surfer either

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Hasbro doesn't need to catch up..... Mattel does , cause toybiz started the whole thing, and they got a big headstart.... after Mattel has done 9 or so BAFs , then we'll see who needs to improve their marketing stratagy..... you know what I mean?

 

 

Say what?! Toybiz has nothing to do with hasbro though... if anything hasbro has taken a hugeeeeeeee step back from the toybiz style! The DCUC figures are frankly a slap in the face to hasbro & the excuses they have given us for the quality of figures and sizes of the bafs are BS

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hey man.. somebody has to do the dirty work... we can't all just be peachy all the time.. or else all of our toys would suck.

 

"oh wow a toy! Thank you toy makers for making a toy for me!"

 

lol... thats a lot of what you see from other people... and those people don't care about what kind of toy they get.

 

 

complaining works... flat out.

Oh, no doubt it does. We know Hasbro checks out the boards, so they definitely see what everyone likes and what doesn't fly. I'd imagine more companies than just them do the same, too.

 

It just seems that you have harsher critiques than most, which is why I was wondering what your example of a perfect figure would be, whether it be a Hasbro Legend, ToyBiz Legend or from a different line entirely. I really don't recall you ever making a comment around the lines of "Wow, _____ really nailed it!" So I was curious as to who your pinnacle of toy perfection is.

 

 

I am harsher than most critiques.... because we had a great line... something that wasn't broke and didn't need to be changed. And Hasbro comes along and sticks their igorant thumbs all over it and messes it up. Yes, Hasbro has better quality control than Toybiz did.... but they aren't making very detailed or difficult figures.. so who cares.

 

we wanted Hasbro to continue Toybiz's line and add their own trademark quality into th mix.. no need for cheesy faces, bad or no paint detail, ##$%$#ed articulation styles, bad designs.. etc.

 

for a perfect Hasbro figure, you will have to go back to the 2006 San Diego Comic Con. Check out Thor, Quicksilver, She Hulk, Yellowjacket, Xorn, and Blob. But by the time these figures made it to the production stage, they had been altered big time. Different head sculpts, different paint apps, and cheese added all over them.

 

check out Hasbro's perfect Quicksilver. Is this what your quicksilver looks like?

IMG_2226.jpg

 

you can see the whole album of Hasbro's GOOD wave 2 figures here

 

and thats the last time you ever saw a good Hasbro figure. Now they suck even at the prototype stage.

 

What can I say, it is paint apps, paint apps, paint apps, paint apps, that can bring out the best in these figures. You can have the best sculpts in the world but if the paint apps are not there, they look like a whole different figure . . . a crappy one at that. Lord Thor looked awesome initially (despite his Marvel Select size), but he looked very ordinary once in production. And some people repainted theirs or out some washes on it, and voila, he looks tremendous again!!

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lol... thats a lot of what you see from other people... and those people don't care about what kind of toy they get.

 

 

complaining works... flat out.

 

Oh brownies!

Saying "those people" don't care is complete garbage. Its a different perspective on things which other people are entitled to, no?

Your glass is half empty, and its seems like its always been.

In my case, I enjoy a lot of what comes out simply because of what it is. My glass is always half full.

In your case, all you seem to have is misery and constant complaining. There's zero joy coming from you.

Honestly, from my POV, it begs the question of why a chronic complainer continues on with something when they are consistently not happy with it.

For me, life is to short to cry and whine about stuff. That's NOT to say I have any lower standards than anyone else, just that I pick and choose what and when I complain about something.

When something is geuninely bad, I certainly do have something to say about it and I tend to speak with my wallet- which is a LOT louder than my voice.

Bitching about the toys here is wasted breath, usually because its just bitching-its almost never constructive.

Simply not buying something sends the clearest message of what works and what doesn't--far more so than the noise of the differing opinions in forums like this.

Speaking only for myself, I've made what I believe to be the intelligent choice in seeing the product for what it is, not any worse or better than it is, and I'm enjoy the heck out of it for what it is.

 

 

The OTHER thing I'm challenging today.........goes out to everyone:

 

What's with this "US vs THEM"/ "this is better than that" thinking?

Why does everything have to be the pinnacle, the measure against everything else? Its like this juvenile need to crystalize the "most" of something--something that teenagers do a LOT of ( and most of the posters here are not in their teens anymore).

Seriously, what gives?

Why does something have to be "better" than something else.

What's wrong with something just being different, or even "equally good"?

 

In the case of DCUC and ML, I see them as being just that: different and equally good.

There's figures I like more, and some I like less, but overall I see things just as attractive in one line as the other.

What's the point in trying to "one-up" everything, especially with the toys?

Isn't it enough to just LIKE something, or does the validation one's whole identity need to be wrapped in around the thing?

 

The BAFs don't need to be monstrous--that was never the stated intention of the BAF concept--yet fans seem to have bought into this myth. The whole BAF idea was to give us characters that are different and interesting, that normally wouldn't be offered on their own. Some have been really interesting, some a bit less so...but I don't think ANY BAF has been worthless.

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Hasbro really has taken a huge step back from Toy Biz in terms of articulation and poseability. The waves have been inconsistant with some good and some bad figures, but then again, Toy Biz had that same issue. That's the one plus DCSH really have is the consistancy. While the figures aren't as realistic or articulated as the best Toy Biz stuff, they are pretty good. For the most part, Hasbro is pretty good, too. The figures are not all they could be, though. If they would just get back to the double jointed joints and stay away from the cartoony looks like the FF line had, they could be great figures.

 

2007 was really a hi-bred of leftover Toy Biz and re-modeling Hasbro. 2008 will tell us what Hasbro is really going to be doing with ML. If it's going to be like the recent FF ML line, then I may just stop buying. Other than Doom and Ronan, that line was pretty sucky.

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is anyone else getting tired of this TB vs Hasbro thing? it fun to read people complain and moan bout hasbro but enough already. give the guys a chance. we all saw them in the podcast and they seem to be really nice guys who are fan of Marvel. not to say the higher up don't have a say in how they do thing but come on we do most of the work in picking the character they just make them.

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2007 was really a hi-bred of leftover Toy Biz and re-modeling Hasbro. 2008 will tell us what Hasbro is really going to be doing with ML. If it's going to be like the recent FF ML line, then I may just stop buying. Other than Doom and Ronan, that line was pretty sucky.

 

See, this is where POV's differ so radically: I LOVED the ML FF line! Seriously.

I like Reed and Ben tremendously, Sue and the Surfer are good figures too. I'm just delighted with Namor because he;s the version I've always wanted.

Only Johnny is the weak one, imo.

The FF wave is what's keeping me stoked for more ML.

 

I agree though that 2008 will be the telling year, because it'll be all Hasbro. The protos I've seen for Hulk, Iron Man and other waves due instill me with confidence for the line.

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I'm a fan of both DCD/DCU and Toybiz ML...and it's obvious hasbro needs to get it together bigtime if they want to make collecting ML FUN again! the only figures i have from the hasbro line is Lord Thor and Marvel girl Rachel...and that says alot right there.

 

 

It is what it is . . . . This forum is out in the hope that constructive criticism of a certain product or merchandise would give the manufacturer to GET WITH THE PROGRAM and hopefully start turning real product that measures up to what its competitors are putting out. It's been twelve months and Hasbro has been putting out stuff that is half as good as what the previous manufacturer has sold. Sculpting could be better, scale size and uniformity has been wishy-washy (as in Silver Surfer, Herc, Thor, etc), paints apps leaves a lot to be desired. Marvel Legends in the year 2007 going 2008 has been bought, measured, scrutinized, compared and HAS BEEN found wanting !!!

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Hmm, when I started this thread, I didn't intend for it to become another TB VS Hasbro bash. I was only comparing the newer ML BAFs against DCUC BAFs.

 

Hasbro BAFs:

Annihilus

Blob

Brood Queen

Sandman

Ronan

 

Mattel BAFs:

Metamorpho

Gorilla Grodd

Solomon Grundy

 

Articulation can be argued over what your preference is, but speaking only for myself, Mattel wins hands down in terms of paint apps. Regarding sculpt, I think Mattel has a little more detail in their BAFs but if Hasbro would improve their paints apps, they can bring out the details better in their BAFs. Bad paint jobs can really kill a well-sculpted figure.

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I am harsher than most critiques.... because we had a great line... something that wasn't broke and didn't need to be changed. And Hasbro comes along and sticks their ignorant thumbs all over it and messes it up. Yes, Hasbro has better quality control than Toybiz did.... but they aren't making very detailed or difficult figures.. so who cares.

 

we wanted Hasbro to continue Toybiz's line and add their own trademark quality into th mix.. no need for cheesy faces, bad or no paint detail, ##$%$#ed articulation styles, bad designs.. etc.

 

for a perfect Hasbro figure, you will have to go back to the 2006 San Diego Comic Con. Check out Thor, Quicksilver, She Hulk, Yellowjacket, Xorn, and Blob. But by the time these figures made it to the production stage, they had been altered big time. Different head sculpts,

you can see the whole album of Hasbro's GOOD wave 2 figures here

 

and thats the last time you ever saw a good Hasbro figure. Now they suck even at the prototype stage.

 

No, really. What is a good figure to you? You keep skipping around the question. What do you consider is 'good' that is product in hand? GI Joe, Marvel Legends, Star Wars, DC, or whatever?

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