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is Wolverine for kids?


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When that show Xmen Evolution was on tv, I used to think that Wolverine was kinda... not really himself and realized that it was impossible to translate the real Wolverine to a kids show very well...

 

But recently I have seen Wolverine in freakin baby toylines! There were these little weeble wobble toys for toddlers... Cap, Spidey, Hulk, and Wolverine..

 

and I thought, what the hell? Wolverine shouldn't be for babies... lets fac it, the guy is a bloody murderer! Sure, he murders bad people, but he is still the most violent "hero" Marvel has....

 

 

Is he a character that should be on baby toys?

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Wolverine has been immensely toned down in nearly every medium outside the comics. If you don’t read comic books then the Wolverine you’d know is a tall guy with a gruff exterior. That’s really the extent of it. You get a sense of the bad boy, but you don’t ever get the true level of it. I’ve never considered Wolverine for kids. I wasn’t even very fond of him as a kid to begin with. I grew into more a Logan fan when I grew older and more cynical in my opinions about life. The same with the Punisher for that matter. The men are killers, whether they’re killing bad guys or not - they’re killers nonetheless. I’ve always preferred my heroes a bit more…ethical. You don't especially get a sense of that with Wolvie in the cartoons and the films (particularly the first one).You don't especially get a sense of that killer side Wolvie has when he's featured in the cartoons and the films (particularly the first one).

 

Personally I thought Evolution was god awful.

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As I've said before, if you really wanted an accurate visual of the man Wolverine is supposed to be, he would only be able to appear in the MAX titles! As for his appearance being used on kids toys...I guess the fact that he is part of the X Men and percieved as a hero makes this ok. Also possibly the fact that parents may not be familiar with the characters complete history. However, there are also those kids figures, I think its the Spider-man and friends line, that have cute versions of Green Goblin and Rhino! Hardly good guys!

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Well if Wolverine shouldn't be for babies I would say that Hulk shouldn't either.

 

I always hated when wolverine would pull his claws out in the cartoon and do nothing with them except slice up machines.

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i've noticed that hes in the marvel adventures avengers book. i am curious about how they could depict a government designed killing machine in an all ages book. but not curious enough to actually pick one of those books up.

 

the poster, james logan howlett, is right, he needs a MAX book. fury, cage, war machine, punisher and more have gotten max books, and the ones i have read have been great depictions of the characters (i think garth ennis's nick fury is second only to sterankos).

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everybody's for kids when they step outside the world of comics.

 

So you wouldn't hesitate to give your five year old a Punisher toy that’s sporting a huge assault rifle, uzi, or glock? Not that I’m this gun control advocate, but I just can’t see a young child thats obsessed with the Punisher as being healthy. I’d be fairly concerned for my little ones future…but thats me.

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Good lord am I the only person here that played with toy guns ever since I can remeber? Wolverine same concept, It has been proven, that if you instill good values and morals in your children they will be ok, it has nothing to do with the media or toys they plays with. And yes I have a little boy and yes he play with wolverine. My back round includes Juvenile corrections/Adult corrections and my wife is a Teacher (K-3).

 

Saying Wolverine is bad for kids, you might as well say Snake Eyes is too, and I don't know too many people around my age that didn'y have him or Darth Vader or any other cool "bad guy" or "anti-hero" growing up. The only thing kids think of is that it looks cool and he's a "good guy". If you are into telling children the complete back story of him , you are the one that needs help.

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I always thought Wolverine was cool as a kid, his claws, attitude, etc. I discovered him in the X-Men animated toons. Once i read the books i found out he was a straight hard edge killer. I thought that was cool! But is Wolvy for kids? That's debatable. I dont see it as harmful really, the way he has to be portrayed in the cartoons he's not really allowed to kill. However in the books, can you name anyone that has killed more people than Wolverine face to face? I'm not talking about gods or cosmic people who blew up planets and killed millions, i'm talking about face to face H2H killing. Its hard to think of anyone that has actually killed more than Wolverine.

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Is Sherlock Holmes for kids? He's a cocaine addict.

 

Is Alice in Wonderland for kids? It's a book about LSD.

 

Is Tarzan for kids? He's a racist.

 

 

Great point!!!

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Is Sherlock Holmes for kids? He's a cocaine addict.

 

Is Alice in Wonderland for kids? It's a book about LSD.

 

Is Tarzan for kids? He's a racist.

 

 

LSD didn't exist when Alice in Wonderland was written. @smilepunch@

 

But to say Wolverine isn't for kids is as futile as saying "little green army men" aren't for kids. It all comes down to personal/parental choice.

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Wolverine is a pablum version of Freddy Krueger.

 

As the character is portrayed in comics, he's got a veneer of nobility and decency. He's a "good" guy that's done bad things.

As he has been written ( or INTENDED to be written) in the past, he's supposed to be psycho--but in an almost unconscious way.

The classic example of this is the unwritten scene in which Kitty Pryde comes into the mansion's kitchen for breakfast, Wolverine is there--and she says "hello" to him.

Cyclops enters in very shortly after and sees Kitty lying disemboweled on the floor, and Wolverine is nonplussed.

When confronted, all he says is "ooops".

The original intent is that he's supposed to be dangerous, which is why he's under the auspices of the X-men to begin with.

Thanks to Chris Claremont, the character was been twisted, mutated, butchered, though and re-thought over and over again into a muddled mess disguised as "complexity".

 

In the strictest sense, he's not a character/hero for kids, but has been written to fit within children's material.

 

 

LSD didn't exist when Alice in Wonderland was written.

No, but opium did.

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I've been a Wolverine fan since I was six when my older brother let me read/look at his first solo run (somewhere around the Geneva stone story) The more violent he was the more I liked him. I had an older cousin who wouldn't let their kids watch gi joe because it was too violent, thats ridiculous. Young children should be allowed access to basic violence as long as they don't show any overly violent tendencies themselves. Some little kids are smart some are stupid, go from there.

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Thanks to Chris Claremont, the character was been twisted, mutated, butchered, though and re-thought over and over again into a muddled mess disguised as "complexity".

 

Not arguing the muddled part, but who else even made the character but Claremont? He appeared in a single forgettable (Which I believe was by either Len Wein or Larry Hama) Incredible Hulk story before being co-opted for the X-Men.

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Is Sherlock Holmes for kids? He's a cocaine addict.

 

Is Alice in Wonderland for kids? It's a book about LSD.

 

Is Tarzan for kids? He's a racist.

 

I don't remember Sherlock being a coke head in any of the books I read as a kid. It may habe been there, but it is above the level that a kid would be able to recognize.

 

Alice in wonderland is not about LSD. "Through the Looking Glass" could be about LSD... but Alice in wonderland isn't. It may be a storu derived from a book thats about drugs... but that is debateble. Did Lewis Carrol ever admit that, or is that the speculation of literary critics?

So to say Alice in Wonderland, the Disney feature, is about LSD, is rediculous. Nobody is going to watch Alice in Wonderland and think "this is about Drugs!, my kids can't watch this"

 

And Tarzan aint no racist... he doesn't know any better @lol@

 

 

anyhow... the point is not whether or not kids should be exposed to violence... its that the kind of violent/animalistic character that Wolverine is, should not be featured in toddler toys.

 

 

All those things you pointed out do not apply to kids, they won't even be noticed... But if a kid picks up an issue of Wolverine, he might just see Logan go into a bar and murder a biker gang by ripping them to shreds... then he has a beer and a smoke.. and leaves like nothing happened.

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Thanks to Chris Claremont, the character was been twisted, mutated, butchered, though and re-thought over and over again into a muddled mess disguised as "complexity".

 

Not arguing the muddled part, but who else even made the character but Claremont? He appeared in a single forgettable (Which I believe was by either Len Wein or Larry Hama) Incredible Hulk story before being co-opted for the X-Men.

 

 

The debate is that alot of the initial character of Wolverine (once in the X-men) came from John Byrne, but it depends on who tells the story about those days. At the time, Claremont and Wein didn't know what they wanted to do with the character, didn't LIKE the character at all and would have written him out to languish as a C-class villain in other books if they had the chance.

Byrne maintains that a lot of the more "interesting" traits came from him, but those were white-washed or dismissed after he left the book and Claremont re-wrote the character to fit his own tastes.

Byrne, its claimed, made Wolverine a star in the Marvel Firmament, but Claremont is the one who corrupted him.

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I don't remember Sherlock being a coke head in any of the books I read as a kid. It may habe been there, but it is above the level that a kid would be able to recognize.

 

Alice in wonderland is not about LSD. "Through the Looking Glass" could be about LSD... but Alice in wonderland isn't. It may be a storu derived from a book thats about drugs... but that is debateble. Did Lewis Carrol ever admit that, or is that the speculation of literary critics?

So to say Alice in Wonderland, the Disney feature, is about LSD, is rediculous. Nobody is going to watch Alice in Wonderland and think "this is about Drugs!, my kids can't watch this"

 

And Tarzan aint no racist... he doesn't know any better @lol@

 

 

anyhow... the point is not whether or not kids should be exposed to violence... its that the kind of violent/animalistic character that Wolverine is, should not be featured in toddler toys.

 

 

All those things you pointed out do not apply to kids, they won't even be noticed... But if a kid picks up an issue of Wolverine, he might just see Logan go into a bar and murder a biker gang by ripping them to shreds... then he has a beer and a smoke.. and leaves like nothing happened.

 

You prove my point. Sherlock Holmes can (and usually does) have the cocaine addiction downplayed or removed, Alice in Wonderland (which was heavily influenced by drug culture; the Catapiller is an opium fiend) can have the drug elements downplayed, and Tarzan can have the racist elements removed. (It's not just the character of Tarzan who is racist; the very narration of the series is. Edgar Rice Burroughs would use his money to establish an upper-class whites-only community named Tarzania, later in his life).

 

These things are done to make the characters more acceptable for children. So why not remove the less socially desirable aspects of Wolverine from him, to make him more acceptable to children?

 

Thanks to Chris Claremont, the character was been twisted, mutated, butchered, though and re-thought over and over again into a muddled mess disguised as "complexity".

 

Not arguing the muddled part, but who else even made the character but Claremont? He appeared in a single forgettable (Which I believe was by either Len Wein or Larry Hama) Incredible Hulk story before being co-opted for the X-Men.

 

 

The debate is that alot of the initial character of Wolverine (once in the X-men) came from John Byrne, but it depends on who tells the story about those days. At the time, Claremont and Wein didn't know what they wanted to do with the character, didn't LIKE the character at all and would have written him out to languish as a C-class villain in other books if they had the chance.

Byrne maintains that a lot of the more "interesting" traits came from him, but those were white-washed or dismissed after he left the book and Claremont re-wrote the character to fit his own tastes.

Byrne, its claimed, made Wolverine a star in the Marvel Firmament, but Claremont is the one who corrupted him.

 

Interesting; I didn't know that, beyond the initial complications in his origin and the sketchy details of his powers.

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I don't remember Sherlock being a coke head in any of the books I read as a kid. It may habe been there, but it is above the level that a kid would be able to recognize.

 

Alice in wonderland is not about LSD. "Through the Looking Glass" could be about LSD... but Alice in wonderland isn't. It may be a storu derived from a book thats about drugs... but that is debateble. Did Lewis Carrol ever admit that, or is that the speculation of literary critics?

So to say Alice in Wonderland, the Disney feature, is about LSD, is rediculous. Nobody is going to watch Alice in Wonderland and think "this is about Drugs!, my kids can't watch this"

 

And Tarzan aint no racist... he doesn't know any better @lol@

 

 

anyhow... the point is not whether or not kids should be exposed to violence... its that the kind of violent/animalistic character that Wolverine is, should not be featured in toddler toys.

 

 

All those things you pointed out do not apply to kids, they won't even be noticed... But if a kid picks up an issue of Wolverine, he might just see Logan go into a bar and murder a biker gang by ripping them to shreds... then he has a beer and a smoke.. and leaves like nothing happened.

 

You prove my point. Sherlock Holmes can (and usually does) have the cocaine addiction downplayed or removed, Alice in Wonderland (which was heavily influenced by drug culture; the Catapiller is an opium fiend) can have the drug elements downplayed, and Tarzan can have the racist elements removed. (It's not just the character of Tarzan who is racist; the very narration of the series is. Edgar Rice Burroughs would use his money to establish an upper-class whites-only community named Tarzania, later in his life).

 

These things are done to make the characters more acceptable for children. So why not remove the less socially desirable aspects of Wolverine from him, to make him more acceptable to children?

 

 

yes... but they haven't, have they? Nothing was "DONE" to any of those characters to make them more acceptable for children.... They already are acceptable for children in every medium they are presented in.

 

its not like there is a Shelock Holmes cartoon where he is nice, but then the books have him obviously doing coke.

 

or the Tarzan cartoon where he is a jolly monkeyman, but in the books he hates black people.

 

However, if any kid goes to read Wolverine, which they can, they will see him murdering people @lol@

 

they didn't tone down the character of Wolverine from where he is mainly featured, the comics.

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I don't remember Sherlock being a coke head in any of the books I read as a kid. It may habe been there, but it is above the level that a kid would be able to recognize.

 

Alice in wonderland is not about LSD. "Through the Looking Glass" could be about LSD... but Alice in wonderland isn't. It may be a storu derived from a book thats about drugs... but that is debateble. Did Lewis Carrol ever admit that, or is that the speculation of literary critics?

So to say Alice in Wonderland, the Disney feature, is about LSD, is rediculous. Nobody is going to watch Alice in Wonderland and think "this is about Drugs!, my kids can't watch this"

 

And Tarzan aint no racist... he doesn't know any better @lol@

 

 

anyhow... the point is not whether or not kids should be exposed to violence... its that the kind of violent/animalistic character that Wolverine is, should not be featured in toddler toys.

 

 

All those things you pointed out do not apply to kids, they won't even be noticed... But if a kid picks up an issue of Wolverine, he might just see Logan go into a bar and murder a biker gang by ripping them to shreds... then he has a beer and a smoke.. and leaves like nothing happened.

 

You prove my point. Sherlock Holmes can (and usually does) have the cocaine addiction downplayed or removed, Alice in Wonderland (which was heavily influenced by drug culture; the Catapiller is an opium fiend) can have the drug elements downplayed, and Tarzan can have the racist elements removed. (It's not just the character of Tarzan who is racist; the very narration of the series is. Edgar Rice Burroughs would use his money to establish an upper-class whites-only community named Tarzania, later in his life).

 

These things are done to make the characters more acceptable for children. So why not remove the less socially desirable aspects of Wolverine from him, to make him more acceptable to children?

 

 

yes... but they haven't, have they? Nothing was "DONE" to any of those characters to make them more acceptable for children.... They already are acceptable for children in every medium they are presented in.

 

its not like there is a Shelock Holmes cartoon where he is nice, but then the books have him obviously doing coke.

 

or the Tarzan cartoon where he is a jolly monkeyman, but in the books he hates black people.

 

However, if any kid goes to read Wolverine, which they can, they will see him murdering people @lol@

 

they didn't tone down the character of Wolverine from where he is mainly featured, the comics.

 

I'm not sure Sherlock Holmes and the rest are "acceptable for children" in their original mediums.

Nor is Wolverine.

Marvel didn't tone down Wolverine in his comics and Tarzan and the rest aren't toned down in their books.

 

Of course back when those characters were introduced parent groups weren't so tenacious as they are nowadays. I teach Kindergarten and the things we're allowed and not allowed to do can border on the insane. A few years ago my class had "earned" a party for getting compliments for behavior. We were studying the letter "I" so I brought my copy of The Incredibles to school, so the kids would have something to watch while munching on their pizza. I tried to play it through the library only to be told that I couldn't show PG movies. Now I'm not sure exactly what it is about the Incredibles that makes it unwatchable to todays 5-year old but the librarian suggested Peter Pan, Sleeping Beauty, or The Lion King (I guess she didn't get the whole "I" concept) as a replacement movie. I have watched and love all of these but all of them have violent, sexist, and/or racist moments in them. No consistency.

 

And yes my kids know who Wolverine is. OK most of them call him X-Man but I blame that on poor parenting. @loll@ Wolverine is no more violent and morally reprehensible than almost any fairy tale/nursery rhyme character that children are encouraged to read about. Hansel and Gretel get away with murder by oven but Logan can't cut up a few ninja swords? Jack can chop down and beanstalk and murder a giant but Wolvie can't chop down a sentinel and slice up a walking computer? C'mon that's just not fair.

 

Now most of my kids aren't reading comics but they know a cool character when they see one. And a toned down version of Wolverine is no different than a Disneyfied (yep new word) version of Tarzan.

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