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In the movie, would you rather see Joe's origin or . .


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I can see the assembly of the Joe team being rushed as the threat of Cobra becomes more apparent, but that might make for some non-exciting back story. Would you rather Hollywood show us the Joe origin for the first (of many) movies, or just get right into some weather dominator battle with Cobra?

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An origin story builds audience rapport because it gives the viewers insight into the motivations and reasons why characters do certain things and make certain choices.

With a roster as large as the GIJOE property has, only a couple of main characters can have any kind of sensible origin done for them--the rest of the team being secondary filler characters and foils.

Given that most of the audience will NOT be well versed on who the characters are, some kind of origin spin is needed.

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An origin story builds audience rapport because it gives the viewers insight into the motivations and reasons why characters do certain things and make certain choices.

With a roster as large as the GIJOE property has, only a couple of main characters can have any kind of sensible origin done for them--the rest of the team being secondary filler characters and foils.

Given that most of the audience will NOT be well versed on who the characters are, some kind of origin spin is needed.

 

 

I'm gonna disagree with you on that with one gigantic legendary trilogy as an example......the original Star Wars Trilogy....."An New Hope" opened with a space battle and Storm Troopers taking a rebel starship......nobody knew anything at all about those characters at the time....all we knew was that it was cool as hell....You could tell who was bad just by the way they acted and looked......the same thing could be done with GI Joe. If thats one thing I hate about comic movies is that they all take forever for us to get to what we want.......I'm not saying I need mindless action....but you guys get my drift....we don't need to waste a movie on who's who and what Cobra Commanders favorite food and color is.

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I'm gonna disagree with you on that with one gigantic legendary trilogy as an example......the original Star Wars Trilogy....."An New Hope" opened with a space battle and Storm Troopers taking a rebel starship......nobody knew anything at all about those characters at the time....all we knew was that it was cool as hell....You could tell who was bad just by the way they acted and looked......the same thing could be done with GI Joe. If thats one thing I hate about comic movies is that they all take forever for us to get to what we want.......I'm not saying I need mindless action....but you guys get my drift....we don't need to waste a movie on who's who and what Cobra Commanders favorite food and color is.

 

In terms of storytelling, Star Wars follows the tradtional model pretty well:

Introduce the characters--establish their situation.

Introoduce the conflict, which disrupts the character's situation.

Build to a climax and show the resolution.

All that was essentially done was the almost swapping of the first two points.

The first characters establish with motivation and situation are Leia and Vader--as is their conflict and the overall conflict of the story.

It works in the case of Star Wars because A : the story is fantasy and the visual differences are stark.

and B : because the characters are shallow--at least at first.

 

GIJOE is going to have (more than likely) a lot of real-life touchstones for the audience to relate to. That means that the approach needs to be more "realistic" and motivations need a bit more explaining.

Why does COBRA Commander want to take over the world? What would drive a guy like that to raise an army--how who he accomplish this?

What sets the GIJOE team apart of other military forces? Why not use an existing force, and why is their leader chosen? What is interesting ( re: flawed) about him?

If all this high-tech gear is waiting for the Joes to use.....why them and not an existing military unit--why do thse guys have to be formed?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

(In Star Wars, all the characters start out as essentially ciphers--with little dimension to them. Vader is bad. Leia is a fiesty royal hostage. Ben is wise. Luke is bored and looking for adventure.

The only character that could be said to have started out interesting was Han- and REALLY only because he shoots first--but that's a whole other rant.)

Because GIJOE will be set in a "real" world--the exposition of the world itself doesn't need much (visual)explaining and so the characters will have to bear the brunt of the exposition within the story.

When you look closely at Star Wars--there's really not that much story to it.

There's a great deal of visual set-up involved--shots of the landscape, vehicles moving, cities, space stuff--all things to remind the audience they are in a different place.

 

Just jumping into a conflict in GIJOE doesn't set up the story, IMO, because the reasons why there's a conflict are vague in GIJOE to begin with. Just WHY is COBRA out to rule the world?

Just saying that isn't enough to today's crowd--its got to be addressed if the story is going to be "believable".

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already established. you don't just throw together a unit as advanced as G.I. Joe on a whim, it takes months and months of training together to develop the type of skill and rapport they would have -- and that is just time the movie doesn't have to cover.

 

I would prefer to see how this already established anti-terrorist unit is able to adapt to the type of terrorist threat they have never faced before and learn to combat it, that is far more interesting -- watching a skilled unit be overmatched and then learn how to defeat Cobra, than simply training.

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I wouldn't want to see the movie open up with the understanding that Cobra is bad - taking over the world and Joes are good saving the world. While a complete back story of each character would be time consuming and boring - you could do a dossier type. Have two suits one could be Flagg or Hawk or Colton or whoever and the other could be Duke/Flint etc other leader type. Talk about the mission and then go through screens seeing the people and explain who they are quickly with personality quirks, military specialties, and real name/code names.

 

Some set up is needed. Jumping straight into the thick of things would be confusing for most. You have to expect the average movie goer knows nothing and needs some type of setup.

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I would expect to see a scene or two intocucing a team and their specific specialties.

Origin back stories should be reseved for a few charcters like Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow for Instance. There wont be enough time to spend on everybody.But the movie should open up with plenty of action and end in an Epic battle sequence.

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I'm gonna disagree with you on that with one gigantic legendary trilogy as an example......the original Star Wars Trilogy....."An New Hope" opened with a space battle and Storm Troopers taking a rebel starship......nobody knew anything at all about those characters at the time....all we knew was that it was cool as hell....You could tell who was bad just by the way they acted and looked......the same thing could be done with GI Joe. If thats one thing I hate about comic movies is that they all take forever for us to get to what we want.......I'm not saying I need mindless action....but you guys get my drift....we don't need to waste a movie on who's who and what Cobra Commanders favorite food and color is.

 

In terms of storytelling, Star Wars follows the tradtional model pretty well:

Introduce the characters--establish their situation.

Introoduce the conflict, which disrupts the character's situation.

Build to a climax and show the resolution.

All that was essentially done was the almost swapping of the first two points.

The first characters establish with motivation and situation are Leia and Vader--as is their conflict and the overall conflict of the story.

It works in the case of Star Wars because A : the story is fantasy and the visual differences are stark.

and B : because the characters are shallow--at least at first.

 

GIJOE is going to have (more than likely) a lot of real-life touchstones for the audience to relate to. That means that the approach needs to be more "realistic" and motivations need a bit more explaining.

Why does COBRA Commander want to take over the world? What would drive a guy like that to raise an army--how who he accomplish this?

What sets the GIJOE team apart of other military forces? Why not use an existing force, and why is their leader chosen? What is interesting ( re: flawed) about him?

If all this high-tech gear is waiting for the Joes to use.....why them and not an existing military unit--why do thse guys have to be formed?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

(In Star Wars, all the characters start out as essentially ciphers--with little dimension to them. Vader is bad. Leia is a fiesty royal hostage. Ben is wise. Luke is bored and looking for adventure.

The only character that could be said to have started out interesting was Han- and REALLY only because he shoots first--but that's a whole other rant.)

Because GIJOE will be set in a "real" world--the exposition of the world itself doesn't need much (visual)explaining and so the characters will have to bear the brunt of the exposition within the story.

When you look closely at Star Wars--there's really not that much story to it.

There's a great deal of visual set-up involved--shots of the landscape, vehicles moving, cities, space stuff--all things to remind the audience they are in a different place.

 

Just jumping into a conflict in GIJOE doesn't set up the story, IMO, because the reasons why there's a conflict are vague in GIJOE to begin with. Just WHY is COBRA out to rule the world?

Just saying that isn't enough to today's crowd--its got to be addressed if the story is going to be "believable".

 

You have a lot of valid points my friend.....but I really don't know when movies had to "believeable" cause IMO the minute Destro walks onto the screen "believeable and real world" go right out the door. GI Joe is loaded with fantasy....... Also for Cobra to be the threat it needs to be you can't have CC running around like Osama Bin Laden in caves and forests. Because I want Cobra to be a real threat in the movie......like they have been around for a while but haven't really done anything on a large scale yet. You could maybe get an origin story with 4-5 of the characters already existing that are already members of the team and the last character could be introduced to the GI JOE world along with the audience. You know like.........Having the team already assembled and they looking for new recruits and finding a young guy and this is what is really going on type thing.

 

GI Joe and Origin story just don't click with me......these guys don't just wake up with military prowess....you know what I mean. They aren't born with it, bitten my a marine corp. bulldog and magically get the Core values of the Corp, you know what I'm saying.........for there to be a true origin story it would take at least 2 movies IMO.

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They could do a comic prequal to the movie, like they did with the Transformers movie. Or when the Joe movie comes to dvd, include a mini prequal comic , like when they released the Punisher movie on dvd. Or as part of the movie promtion, include the comic with the purchase of the movie ticket.

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I can see the assembly of the Joe team being rushed as the threat of Cobra becomes more apparent, but that might make for some non-exciting back story. Would you rather Hollywood show us the Joe origin for the first (of many) movies, or just get right into some weather dominator battle with Cobra?

 

 

That's not a bad idea..but the only thing with that is that they risk putting the spotlight just on one character...I don't want this movie to turn into the "snake eyes story" or whoever.

 

Maybe start off the movie with Hawk narrating the opening with flashes of cobra doing acts of terrorism...comming to power and doing something drastic like bombing the white house. Then it could switch to him saying how there became a need for G.IJoe and loosely introduce like 6 core characters. I honestly don't think a back story is necessary...and if your not a collector you probably don't care to know Duke's mom died when he was a kid or whatever. I think all they need to make sure is that the characters are giving individual personalities and the movie will be a success. I think the audience could fine atleast one character to relate to without going in depth of there orgin.

 

Besides, I'd rather them leave it alone then mess up somebody's orgin just to make it more exciting for the movies.

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Maybe start off the movie with Hawk narrating the opening with flashes of cobra doing acts of terrorism...comming to power and doing something drastic like bombing the white house. Then it could switch to him saying how there became a need for G.IJoe and loosely introduce like 6 core characters.

the first rule of filmmaking is show, don't tell. a formal introduction of the characters is cheap and only serves as a cop-out to introducing the characters in a much more dramatic, dynamic and exciting manner. the screenwriter for the is probably easily getting high 6 figures or low 7 figures for this script, he damn well better have some real great manner in which the story and characters are presented to the audicence beyons a character having to "talk" to them and catch them up to speed.

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My vote is origin, and would always be.

 

Scenario 1 - I saw someone reference Transformers, which I think is a great example of doing an origin movie without it being linear. For example, you could have some of the original Joes on a mission. However, this is pre-G.I. Joe. They are sent out and basically stumble upon Cobra. As a result, their commanding officer (Hawk), is ordered to assemble GI Joe in response to this new threat. Then we follow Hawk selecting his team members, so on and so forth. That's sort of the Transformers model. We are thrown into the conflict, but it is before all of the characters are assembled. That way we still learn their origins and backstories.

 

However, my dream would be.....

 

Scenario 2 - Basically a Snake Eyes origin movie. I know, I know. "Not a ninja movie!" But I think it can be done. If you start with the LRRP guys on a mission (probably updated to Iraq), followed by Snake going home to find his family dead, followed by him getting his ninja training with Storm Shadow, and then his recruitment into G.I.Joe, I think you've got a movie right there. I'd take it through the mission he gets disfigured on and insists on continuing, showing him as the resident bad ass. They complete the mission (foil a Cobra scheme). Epilogue shows Snake Eyes wearing his usual mask, etc. back at the Pit and Cobra is still out there. It leaves plenty of stuff for a second movie.

 

Unfortunately, in either scenario you know that Hasbro is going to insist that the comic timeline at least be altered to have certain characters in it from the beginning (I'd love to see the original 13, BTW, but we all know that ain't gonna happen). So my choices for members of Joe and Cobra to appear would be:

 

Joes:

Hawk - leader, does not go out on missions

Duke - field commander

Snake Eyes

Scarlett

Flint

Lady Jaye

Roadblock

Gung-Ho

Wild Bill (always need a pilot!)

 

Cobra:

Cobra Commander

Destro

Baroness

Storm Shadow (if not a Snake Eyes origin tale)

Dr. Mindbender

Cobra Soldiers

B.A.T.s (depending on whether they want to go all CGI on it)

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Maybe start off the movie with Hawk narrating the opening with flashes of cobra doing acts of terrorism...comming to power and doing something drastic like bombing the white house. Then it could switch to him saying how there became a need for G.IJoe and loosely introduce like 6 core characters.

the first rule of filmmaking is show, don't tell. a formal introduction of the characters is cheap and only serves as a cop-out to introducing the characters in a much more dramatic, dynamic and exciting manner. the screenwriter for the is probably easily getting high 6 figures or low 7 figures for this script, he damn well better have some real great manner in which the story and characters are presented to the audicence beyons a character having to "talk" to them and catch them up to speed.

 

 

Not if it's done right..Like in the first LOTR when they introduce the back story of the rings. they didn't do an entire movie about the creation of the rings, did they? but you still got the just and you didn't feel cheated. Besides, there will always be some "fan boy" who's gonna get pissed off if the back story doesn't match the comics 100% @rolleye@ and if your worried about the kids being cheated..look at the RAH cartoon...they didn't get all in depth in each characters past but you still enjoyed every minute of it..well, atleast I did.

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Maybe start off the movie with Hawk narrating the opening with flashes of cobra doing acts of terrorism...comming to power and doing something drastic like bombing the white house. Then it could switch to him saying how there became a need for G.IJoe and loosely introduce like 6 core characters.

the first rule of filmmaking is show, don't tell. a formal introduction of the characters is cheap and only serves as a cop-out to introducing the characters in a much more dramatic, dynamic and exciting manner. the screenwriter for the is probably easily getting high 6 figures or low 7 figures for this script, he damn well better have some real great manner in which the story and characters are presented to the audicence beyons a character having to "talk" to them and catch them up to speed.

 

 

Not if it's done right..Like in the first LOTR when they introduce the back story of the rings. they didn't do an entire movie about the creation of the rings, did they? but you still got the just and you didn't feel cheated. Besides, there will always be some "fan boy" who's gonna get pissed off if the back story doesn't match the comics 100% @rolleye@ and if your worried about the kids being cheated..look at the RAH cartoon...you didn't get all in depth in each characters past but you still enjoyed every minute of it..well, atleast I did.

 

 

Great Point.........you don't need a whole first movie to get things going......sum things up quick and get to the meat of the story.

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Personally I'd like to see an origin story. Maybe Scarlett is Army intelligence and discovers some thefts of government property and maybe a Cobra logo. She goes to investigate. Maybe Clutch is her driver. They find some Cobra agents and they battle. Maybe hooks up with Duke or Stalker or someone who comes to their aid. There's a big chase through the streets. The agents escape in FANGS hidden nearby. Their report gets flagged and put on Hawk's desk in Washington. He brings them in. Tells them what little the government knows about Cobra and then about GI Joe and invites them to start the new team they've been planning.

 

Meanwhile, across the planet in some desert, maybe in Iraq, Lady Jaye finds some sabaturs stealing oil from a pipeline. She and Roadblock or someone engage in a battle and stop them. They find the Cobra symbol and then they get brought in. Cut to the Pit with the introduced so far characters and some others. Maybe Duke decides he has to bring Snake-Eyes in and goes to recruit him. I think the whole Snake-Eyes/Storm Shadow origin would really have to be a spin-off movie, just because the story is so complex. The production company should probably write the script first though, so the story elements will be consistant with this movie.

 

Anyway, the Joe team pieces together what Cobra is up to and goes to battle them in various locations. I think the sequel should probably focus on Cobra's origin, as well as whatever badness they are up to next. Obviously Joe has the potential of being a major franchise and I hope it all works out.

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Maybe start off the movie with Hawk narrating the opening with flashes of cobra doing acts of terrorism...comming to power and doing something drastic like bombing the white house. Then it could switch to him saying how there became a need for G.IJoe and loosely introduce like 6 core characters.

the first rule of filmmaking is show, don't tell. a formal introduction of the characters is cheap and only serves as a cop-out to introducing the characters in a much more dramatic, dynamic and exciting manner. the screenwriter for the is probably easily getting high 6 figures or low 7 figures for this script, he damn well better have some real great manner in which the story and characters are presented to the audicence beyons a character having to "talk" to them and catch them up to speed.

 

 

Not if it's done right..Like in the first LOTR when they introduce the back story of the rings. they didn't do an entire movie about the creation of the rings, did they? but you still got the just and you didn't feel cheated. Besides, there will always be some "fan boy" who's gonna get pissed off if the back story doesn't match the comics 100% @rolleye@ and if your worried about the kids being cheated..look at the RAH cartoon...they didn't get all in depth in each characters past but you still enjoyed every minute of it..well, atleast I did.

absolutely it can be done well. LOTR is a good example, and one of my favorite movies, Fight Club, has a Voice Over narration through the entire movie. but for the most part any sort of narrative or forced formal introduction usually comes off very cheap and is used as a device because the writer lacks the ability or imagination to introduce the characters another way that is actually part of the exposition as opposed to separate from it.

 

The Rex script actually did a pretty good job of an introduction to the characters, but even then it felt forced. I just would like to see them introduced to the audience via action, and the audience not have to be "told" by the characters.

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Maybe start off the movie with Hawk narrating the opening with flashes of cobra doing acts of terrorism...comming to power and doing something drastic like bombing the white house. Then it could switch to him saying how there became a need for G.IJoe and loosely introduce like 6 core characters.

the first rule of filmmaking is show, don't tell. a formal introduction of the characters is cheap and only serves as a cop-out to introducing the characters in a much more dramatic, dynamic and exciting manner. the screenwriter for the is probably easily getting high 6 figures or low 7 figures for this script, he damn well better have some real great manner in which the story and characters are presented to the audicence beyons a character having to "talk" to them and catch them up to speed.

 

 

Not if it's done right..Like in the first LOTR when they introduce the back story of the rings. they didn't do an entire movie about the creation of the rings, did they? but you still got the just and you didn't feel cheated. Besides, there will always be some "fan boy" who's gonna get pissed off if the back story doesn't match the comics 100% @rolleye@ and if your worried about the kids being cheated..look at the RAH cartoon...they didn't get all in depth in each characters past but you still enjoyed every minute of it..well, atleast I did.

absolutely it can be done well. LOTR is a good example, and one of my favorite movies, Fight Club, has a Voice Over narration through the entire movie. but for the most part any sort of narrative or forced formal introduction usually comes off very cheap and is used as a device because the writer lacks the ability or imagination to introduce the characters another way that is actually part of the exposition as opposed to separate from it.

 

The Rex script actually did a pretty good job of an introduction to the characters, but even then it felt forced. I just would like to see them introduced to the audience via action, and the audience not have to be "told" by the characters.

 

 

I always liked the part at the begining of the 1rst LOTR "but the power of the ring couldn't be denied!" @peace@

 

Think of it this way..if you took only 10 minutes (which probably wouldn't do it just) to introduce 6 core characters...that's already an hour of time with probably alot of talking and/or paper shuffling. If we only get one chance at this...to see our favorite Joes on the big screen...wouldn't you rather see as many of your favorite characters as possible in action? Unless I hear they already signed a 3 picture deal, I want them to go for broke and give me what i've been waiting for 25 years...to see snake eyes jump on top of a cobra flight pod while it's taking off with storm shadow in it ...in real life! @razz@

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well they say it will be similar to X-men and in that movie the new characters are wolverine and rogue who are thrust into the world of xavier and magneto, the teams are there, a history is hinted at, and the escalation of a threat is established in the beginning

 

magneto is around but he becomes more militant

 

so you apply this to gi joe, the team is there, they re a top secret daring highly trained special mission force whose purpose is to defend human freedom against cobra (after the threat is escalated, cobra already exists in some form) a ruthless terrorist organization determined to rule the world

 

if you want to follow x-men and star wars more closely you'd need a anti hero to be introduced like Wolverine or Han Solo the hardened skeptical ousider, the Joe analog would to me be Shipwreck, afterall that is how hes introduced in the revenge of cobra miniseries. Shipwreck would also be highly recognizable to people who havent been engaged in GI Joe since they were kids, I know he wouldn't be a lot of people's first choice but he would serve the purpose of the character that draws us into that world

 

the other probablyt most obvious thing to do it follow some mysterious character's background, for x-men it was wolverine, for star wars it was vader (in the originals), so for Joe the obvious connection is storm shadow and snake eyes, that would have to be worked in some how to drive the plot

 

then you need the mcguffin device (no not necessarily the the item in once upon a joe) some item for the teams to fight over be it the holy grail, death star plans, one ring, allspark, or weather dominator components

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