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Stephen Sommers to direct GI Joe Movie....


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It's just a bad time to try and toss something PRO American onto the big screen right now, I'm surprised they're even considering it, although by the time this movie ever hits the screen we'll probably have another Clinton in office, and so Americans will be "cool" again? :rolleyes:

 

G.I.Joe.....

 

A REAL AMERICAN HERO??

 

 

That is the basis for it, and it is in the theme song, but now it seems as though that might not be prudent. Since nobody in America is actually FROM America, to be an AMERICAN is more to do with a sense of patriotism and pride. Tons of foreigners still flock to get in here (even illegally) but few these days will claim themselves as REAL AMERICANS. There are no "REAL" Americans, since like I said, we all came from some place else, following our ancestry, so again, it's a mental thing, a pride thing, a patriotic feeling in being proud to be here and proud to be part of something that is ultimately "good" and respected by others around the world, which you'd think is still TRUE, since the immigration numbers haven't exactly dropped off any? No, we've managed to let the media portray our politicians as corrupt and incompetent and more evil than the terrorist that brought down the Trade Towers, just so they can sway votes at election time. Problem is, it isn't JUST AMERICANS that are privy to this bullsh@#, and we've influenced what others about the globe tend to think of our people, based on what they see of us on the BOOB tube. @grumpy@

 

We've got American celebrities threatening to move to other countries if certain politicians get elected! :rolleyes: Talk about fueling the anti-American sentiments.

 

A G.I.Joe movie wouldn't stand a chance in hell trying to approach an American based team of terrorist fighting HERO'S, not these days! They'd have to leave out the obvious signs of it, like in the title ARAH and probably try to make them connected to the UN instead (as somebody already mentioned) so as they can come after Americans as well, and save the Earth, fighting the evil American Corporations, that pollute the air and cause all the global warming, and the big American oil companies that are financing an illegal war for oil, just to fatten their pockets along with the Saudis. Yeah, the best storylines for a new movie about a tag team of military experts going after the villains on the planet, would be non-american types, taking down American baddies.

 

Yeah, I'm all warm and fuzzy inside about the possibilities of how this crock of sh@# movie could go, once hollyweird gets their hands on it, and tries to figure out how NOT to offend everyone with the over use of that nasty AMERICAN word, and tone it down a bit. <_<

 

The movie ain't even on celluloid yet, and I'm hatin' it! #US1#

 

Funny you should mention the theme song. A couple weeks ago a popped in a copy of the old DIC run of GIJoe and noticed they had changed the theme song. GIJoe was now International Heroes.

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Don't you think, given the "national fervor" they would portray the Joes "correctly"?

 

But what is "correctly"?? The widest exposure GIJOE has seen in media is the cartoon.

Is that the version to base all this off of--Chris Latta and all??

I dunno.

 

The Joe team wasn't military in almost ANY sense in the cartoons--it was just a "team of people".

 

The comics had a more militaristic slant, but they were boring by and large--and quite self-indulgent.

 

Oh, right good point. What I menat "correct' was like "real" military. Regardless of the flubs Hama made in the comic or the direction G.I. Joe went, It still had roots in the military.

 

I think if they do a G.I. Joe movie, the Joes (at least) will more closely resemble actual military then they will their comic counterparts. X-Men is an...adequate example. Wolvering, Cyclops, Storm, etc. all had their own unique looks in the comic. They all wore similar outfits in the movies. And I don't think even hardcore fans were put off that much by a change like that. So I can see Duke, Scarlett, Roadblock, etc. wearing regular army uniforms as what is worn today.

 

As an example.

 

 

But this movie would be extremely small. Probably not more than Snake Eyes and 5 or 6 other Joes, Cobra Commander, Baroness, Major Bludd, Storm Shadow and, maybe Firefly (Zartan would be in a sequel because of his special abilities). And of course Blueshirts. So the MacGuffin would necessarily be something "small" (ie. believable). Serpentor, while it worked for the toon would not work here. The Weather Dominator would probably work. The MASS Device...maybe.

 

Well, I disagree it would be small--simply because of the associations to the toy-line. Its fairly well known that GIJOE has a lot of character, at least to those that have been exposed to it. There's a lot of background faces--like in a X-men movie. So-and-so would have a cameo, maybe a bit speaking part, and maybe an expanded role in a second movie--but they would still be a small part of the film. Like Colossus in X-men--fanboys went nuts when he did a 5 second cameo in the second movie, and he had all of 30 seconds of combined screen time in the third. That's what one could expect.

We'd have our cool moment of the GIJOE team pinned down somewhere and Lowlight in a sniper perch making that one shot to clear the way for the team. That'd be Lowlight in the movie-15 to 30 seconds, a toy in the toyline and memories in our head.

I think that is what we can expect.

 

Outside of COBRA Commander, maybe one of the supporting villains, and the made hero ( Duke) and Snake-eyes and Scarlet ( and the romantically interested) the story would be about anyone else. All the rest of the bodies walking through the scenes serve as visual/plot filler.

And that KIND of movie has been done successfully enough before--and I think its what we'll get for GIJOE.

 

Making the same KIND of movie as something like Transformers is probably going to be the goal here, and if that is considered successful and a worthwhile take on that franchise by folks here than GIJOE would be well served to be handled in the same light.

 

And I maintain that if one abides by the cartoons, then the atrocious 80's movie MEGAFORCE is the closest we have seen to GIJOE. Certainly that is not a route I want to see it take.

 

Your disagreeing with me about it being "small"? I think we are in agreement that there would be a small cast and a rather basic story. The cameos of other characters, as in X-Men is irrelevant. And that is what I mean by "small". The more money available, the greater the chance of it being "too fantastic" (ie. Megaforce).

 

There is also the consideration that, while G.I. Joe is a "household name" it isn't as big as Star Wars or Transformers or even Marvel stuff. Also, all the CG for the Transformers was entirely necessary. Not so for G.I. Joe. I' m not saying don't have it, just that there isn't a lot of NEED for it, that I see, in a G.I. Joe story.

 

I mean having the characters in regular military outfits or their individual comic outfits is a moot point. I'm more worried about having all the "fantastical" vehicles done in CGI (H.I.S.S. for example) or, more likely, B.A.T.s. Or a CG Timber (or other absurd things).

 

But, again, as a comparison to X-Men, the first movie had all the "most human" looking characters. Cyclops, Jean Grey, Wolverine, Rogue, etc. Even Toad was "normalized". The only exception was Mystique but she was "safe" because she was a shapeshifter and wasn't on screen (as herself) a lot.

 

Then in the sequels we got more "different" stuff like Nightcrawler, Beast and Angel. Even the Sentinel (technically). A G.I. Joe movie will do the same. Blueshirts for Cobras. Then, in a sequel, B.A.T.s or maybe Viper subtypes. "Real" military vehicles (Apaches for the Dragonfly, Abrams for the Mauler/M.O.B.A.T., Blackhawk for the Tomahawk, Humvees etc.). Cobra would probably use MiGs and other Russian/foreign equipment instead of the H.I.S.S. and F.A.N.G. Maybe a CGI "conversion" of an A-10 into a Rattler, but more likely just the A-10 itself.

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It's just a bad time to try and toss something PRO American onto the big screen right now, I'm surprised they're even considering it, although by the time this movie ever hits the screen we'll probably have another Clinton in office, and so Americans will be "cool" again? :rolleyes:

 

G.I.Joe.....

 

A REAL AMERICAN HERO??

 

 

That is the basis for it, and it is in the theme song, but now it seems as though that might not be prudent. Since nobody in America is actually FROM America, to be an AMERICAN is more to do with a sense of patriotism and pride. Tons of foreigners still flock to get in here (even illegally) but few these days will claim themselves as REAL AMERICANS. There are no "REAL" Americans, since like I said, we all came from some place else, following our ancestry, so again, it's a mental thing, a pride thing, a patriotic feeling in being proud to be here and proud to be part of something that is ultimately "good" and respected by others around the world, which you'd think is still TRUE, since the immigration numbers haven't exactly dropped off any? No, we've managed to let the media portray our politicians as corrupt and incompetent and more evil than the terrorist that brought down the Trade Towers, just so they can sway votes at election time. Problem is, it isn't JUST AMERICANS that are privy to this bullsh@#, and we've influenced what others about the globe tend to think of our people, based on what they see of us on the BOOB tube. @grumpy@

 

We've got American celebrities threatening to move to other countries if certain politicians get elected! :rolleyes: Talk about fueling the anti-American sentiments.

 

A G.I.Joe movie wouldn't stand a chance in hell trying to approach an American based team of terrorist fighting HERO'S, not these days! They'd have to leave out the obvious signs of it, like in the title ARAH and probably try to make them connected to the UN instead (as somebody already mentioned) so as they can come after Americans as well, and save the Earth, fighting the evil American Corporations, that pollute the air and cause all the global warming, and the big American oil companies that are financing an illegal war for oil, just to fatten their pockets along with the Saudis. Yeah, the best storylines for a new movie about a tag team of military experts going after the villains on the planet, would be non-american types, taking down American baddies.

 

Yeah, I'm all warm and fuzzy inside about the possibilities of how this crock of sh@# movie could go, once hollyweird gets their hands on it, and tries to figure out how NOT to offend everyone with the over use of that nasty AMERICAN word, and tone it down a bit. <_<

 

The movie ain't even on celluloid yet, and I'm hatin' it! #US1#

 

Funny you should mention the theme song. A couple weeks ago a popped in a copy of the old DIC run of GIJoe and noticed they had changed the theme song. GIJoe was now International Heroes.

 

It also, for some reason, dropped "Cobra" from the theme.

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Your disagreeing with me about it being "small"? I think we are in agreement that there would be a small cast and a rather basic story.

 

No, I think it would have a few headlining stars, but a lot of characters--most of them secondary and tertiary filler characters. Its really about two armies going head-to-head--so they'd need to something fairly epic, tanks, planes, lots of troops running about.

GIJOE cannot counte a COBRA army with just six troopers, and COBRA is really nothing with just the Commander and Destro--they need the legions of vipers/soldiers and associate lieutenants and underlings to be a viable threat. So, in my view, this movie needs to be fairly epic to come across properly, and small casts don't make for epics.

The basic story would need to be about just one or two of those characters though, because avoiding the Dory Miller/ Jimmy Doolittle problem of Pearl Harbour would make this a more receptive film.

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Your disagreeing with me about it being "small"? I think we are in agreement that there would be a small cast and a rather basic story.

 

No, I think it would have a few headlining stars, but a lot of characters--most of them secondary and tertiary filler characters. Its really about two armies going head-to-head--so they'd need to something fairly epic, tanks, planes, lots of troops running about.

GIJOE cannot counte a COBRA army with just six troopers, and COBRA is really nothing with just the Commander and Destro--they need the legions of vipers/soldiers and associate lieutenants and underlings to be a viable threat. So, in my view, this movie needs to be fairly epic to come across properly, and small casts don't make for epics.

The basic story would need to be about just one or two of those characters though, because avoiding the Dory Miller/ Jimmy Doolittle problem of Pearl Harbour would make this a more receptive film.

 

Yeah, I agree. There needs to be a core group consisting of Duke, SE, Scarlett, and maybe 3-4 others, but I really want to see background characters in battle scenes. There should be TONS... What I'd like to see is something inspired by that classic James Bond scene when a bunch of agents attack that base. You know, the one that was parodied in the Simpsons in that Hank Scorpio episode? I can't remember the Bond flim title offhand but just imagine that, replace the agents with a whole bunch of unique GI Joe characters fighting Cobra blueshirts (with a few specialty Vipers thrown in for good measure). I would be extremely happy with that kind of scene.

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Nah, cuz Tranformers featured American soldiers and hardware fighting the "bad guys" and the movie is doing quite well in spite of it.

Cheering on the heroes/underdogs is different from cheering on heroes wrapped in the flag. Play up the Joes as heroic, and being the underdogs in the battle against COBRA and the rapport with the audience will come to it.

Constantly barrage the audience with it being American-this, American-that and showcase characters heroically posed in front of dramatically flapping Old Glories and they'll choke on it. The film doesn't NEED that kind of imagery to get its essential point across.

These guys are American HEROES, not AMERICAN heroes-which, for all concerned, is probably the more comfortable/viable way to realize this.

GIJOE is more about the characters in play, not that they are AMERICAN characters. I know Duke is the first sergeant of an American unit, I can cheer for him and his heroic, boo and hiss at the bad guy he's facing. All he has to do is be heroic, noble, forthright, all the good qualities we like to see in a hero.

And yes, he's American too, because those qualities still fall in line with what an American soldier is expected to be.

 

They can draw other team members from all over the place, to give it a multi-national flavour that it sort of has already. Say that its a US-led team, with UN backing and US developed hardware.

Once its established it doesn't need to be re-emphasized.

Move on with the story from there and give us action and adventure--but the flag waving isn't necessary.

Just my take on it.

 

And a good take, so no contention from me on it. :)

 

AMERICAN is already "multi-national flavoured" with what I mentioned before being true, in that we're all from somewhere else, in our ancestory. An American military right now, is made up all just about every nationality on the planet, joined together to protect America and those we're allies with around the globe. "Protect" being the key word here, and not "help" or "assist" or "return favors to" as in, scratching the backs of those that scratch our backs in helping plot out our evil plans to spread democracy across the planet.

 

Like the theme song says...."WHEREVER...there's trouble! G.I.Joe is there!"

 

If you're of the mindset that Americans aren't criminals, hate mongers and evil, but rather a powerful country, trying to do the "right" thing, based on our own moral judgements and attitudes about how people should be free to live how they want, under a structured government in which we all have to get along despite our differences, to try and be FAIR for the whole and not just the "special" few....then there's nothing wrong with being proud of that....to be an American. G.I.Joe made me proud! The Americanism within it, and the fact that it showcased all the different nationalities of Americans that made up the team, made me even prouder, that the Joes didn't have to be all White, Blonde haired and Blue eyed anglo saxons.

 

America is good, it's politcs are being ruined by all the idiots born in the 40's and early 50's, but once those pukes die out, maybe our intergrity in politics will return and the baby-boomers can retire finally, with much disgrace for what they did to this country in their lifespan? ;)

 

Duke is definitely the ultra American Hero character, and I guess I look at it as the EXAMPLE and not the EXCEPTION that he's American. He's not a one-of-a-kind American soldier, but just the BEST example. No he doesn't have to drape the flag around his neck like a scarf or tattoo it on his shoulder, and stick a flag pole in his britches while charging the TerrorDrome, but I'm not embarrassed by American patriotism.

 

I'm an American, so I guess I really shouldn't. Our politicians don't define the entire nation of us. Hollywood doesn't do a very impressive job of representing us either, yet these two factions get most the attention and air time.

 

If it's about G.I.Joe...the Red, White & Blue is gonna be there.

 

gijoexy2.png

 

They killed off Captain AMERICA already, but I guess that's better than having him change his name to Captain International!

 

These guys are American HEROES, not AMERICAN heroes-which, for all concerned, is probably the more comfortable/viable way to realize this.

 

I see what you're saying, and the difference in the emphasis as such, but I still think it's all one in the same. Americans are already mutli-nationalized, living together on this continent with many differences in our culture and ethnical backgrounds, but united as one "people" that all think we have a pretty darn GOOD thing going on here in this country, and certainly welcome all abroad to come and experience what we're so proud of, if they so desire to, of course by the required LEGAL measures! ;)

 

If the American based G.I.Joe team picks up Action Man along the way, or the October Guard helps out, or any OTHER National group of terrorist fighting soldiers, that go by whatever team name they have, that's even better and shows we're not such a bunch of a$4holes afterall and really just trying to do what's right by innocent FREE loving peoples of the world and not just trying to take care of our own, but use our "power" in responsible ways like Spiderman! ^_^

 

American politcs are sh@# right now, but that shouldn't deprive me the fun of having pretend G.I.Joes still fighting the good fight for freedom wherever there's trouble. If it's just all fantasy and fiction, then let's keep with it anyway for the movie if they make one. Why crap it all up with "REALISM"?

 

 

#US1#

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Yeah, I agree. There needs to be a core group consisting of Duke, SE, Scarlett, and maybe 3-4 others, but I really want to see background characters in battle scenes. There should be TONS... What I'd like to see is something inspired by that classic James Bond scene when a bunch of agents attack that base. You know, the one that was parodied in the Simpsons in that Hank Scorpio episode? I can't remember the Bond flim title offhand but just imagine that, replace the agents with a whole bunch of unique GI Joe characters fighting Cobra blueshirts (with a few specialty Vipers thrown in for good measure). I would be extremely happy with that kind of scene.

 

 

Hey, I don't know if this is the right Bond flick you're thinking of, but watch this Trailer for You Only Live Twice, and towards the end, when the agents are infiltrating the base hidden in the volcano, you can see them dropping in from the ropes, as though it could almost be a Cobra Base or the Terrordrome.

 

This kind of thing would work WONDERFULLY for me also, but hell, they can't even make a decent Bond flick these days, so I dunno man? :(

 

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Yeah, I agree. There needs to be a core group consisting of Duke, SE, Scarlett, and maybe 3-4 others, but I really want to see background characters in battle scenes. There should be TONS... What I'd like to see is something inspired by that classic James Bond scene when a bunch of agents attack that base. You know, the one that was parodied in the Simpsons in that Hank Scorpio episode? I can't remember the Bond flim title offhand but just imagine that, replace the agents with a whole bunch of unique GI Joe characters fighting Cobra blueshirts (with a few specialty Vipers thrown in for good measure). I would be extremely happy with that kind of scene.

 

 

Hey, I don't know if this is the right Bond flick you're thinking of, but watch this Trailer for You Only Live Twice, and towards the end, when the agents are infiltrating the base hidden in the volcano, you can see them dropping in from the ropes, as though it could almost be a Cobra Base or the Terrordrome.

 

This kind of thing would work WONDERFULLY for me also, but hell, they can't even make a decent Bond flick these days, so I dunno man? :(

 

 

Yep, I knew it was the one set in Japan, but as soon as you mentioned the title I remembered it. That's the one!

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Your disagreeing with me about it being "small"? I think we are in agreement that there would be a small cast and a rather basic story.

 

No, I think it would have a few headlining stars, but a lot of characters--most of them secondary and tertiary filler characters. Its really about two armies going head-to-head--so they'd need to something fairly epic, tanks, planes, lots of troops running about.

GIJOE cannot counte a COBRA army with just six troopers, and COBRA is really nothing with just the Commander and Destro--they need the legions of vipers/soldiers and associate lieutenants and underlings to be a viable threat. So, in my view, this movie needs to be fairly epic to come across properly, and small casts don't make for epics.

The basic story would need to be about just one or two of those characters though, because avoiding the Dory Miller/ Jimmy Doolittle problem of Pearl Harbour would make this a more receptive film.

 

Sheehs semantics. I mean a small MAIN cast.

 

Take the 25th as an example. The G.I. Joe movie MAIN CAST would consist of Duke, Roadblock, Scarlett, Snake Eyes and Gung-Ho. Then, of course, we would see "secondary" and "teritary" characters like Flint, Shipwreck, etc. I never said anything about NOT having all those other characters.

 

But just like in the X-Men movie, there were NOT a lot of other characters, background or otherwise, in the first movie. In the first you had the 6 main X-Men characters (Professor X, Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Jean Grey and Rogue) and 2 main bad guys (Magneto and Mystique). How many supporting characters? Kelly, Gyrich, Iceman, Jubilee, Shadowcat, Pyro, Toad and Sabertooth (they didn't really DO anything so I list them as supporting).

 

Take a look at all the cameos and supporters that were ADDED in the sequels:

(X-Men 2) Nightcrawler, Lady Deathstrike, Artie, Syrin, Collosus, and Beast.

(X-Men 3) Juggernaut, Angel, Callisto, Trask, Multiple Man, Leech, Psylocke, Arclight, MacTaggert, Phat, Glob Herman, Anole, Vanisher, Hellion and the Stepford Cuckoos.

 

I see the same thing with a Joe movie. Small main cast with a few cameos. Throw in more guys in the background/cameos in the sequel(s).

 

As for the Joes not being able to counter Cobra with just six agents, isn't that what Sigma 6 was about? or even, to an extent, Extreme? That's a pretty common theme that the good guys are outnumbered but STILL WIN. It makes them look more heroid for doing so.

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They need to keep the Joe cast small for the movie to make them look like an elite unit.5-7 members for the main cast and a few others thrown in for specific jobs.

They can throw all kinds of named cameos in without giving them a big part as long as their name is said for all of the fans.Have Wild Bill drop a couple members of the team at base.Have Breaker intercept a coded Cobra message.Ect,ect.

The team should operate as an uber top secret classified team.

The core Cobra team only needs to have the Commander,Destro as his weapon supplier,the Baroness doing what she does best,Major Bludd as CC's troop leader and Storm Shadow as the assassin/bodyguard for CC.They could cameo the Dreadnoks as bikers working for Cobra and Zartan breaking into an installation to steal files.Thats about all you need besides the nameless foot soldiers for Cobra.

The writers should look at some of the Joe stories from the past to see how a small team worked in somewhat realistic sittings.Have the writer read stories like Operation:Lady Doomsday,The first arc from Americas Elite or watch the first GIJOE cartoon mini series as reference .

Think about what a handfull of people did on 9/11.Make Cobra scary in the movie with an event like that.Ground the story somewhat in reality and it can work.

Make GIJoe truely A Real American Hero in the movie.

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Apparently you have not really read the marvel comic.

Oh please, I own every issue of the Marvel run. Let's look at it as it is.

 

Own them, but you obviously never read them.

 

 

A dark story? With a guy cloaked in a hood, running around with gay-pride candidates ( including a guy in a BIRD outfit and a chap who sleeps with crocodiles!) using giant robotic walkers coming out of the sea, nanobots and all manner of sci-fi weapons?? I see a pretty whimsical story in all that........its pretty far-fetched to begin with--dark wouldn't serve any of that..........simply because NONE of that is dark.

 

Overexaggeration as "Endgame" much? Sure, you can grab the worst aspects of GIJoe lore, and use that to "prove" the comic was bad. But let's look a bit harder at your specific examples:

 

Raptor. Here's what Cobra Commander thought of your first (homophobic, no less) example.

ccweb06.jpg

 

Even though the comic utilized the character, he was a joke, and appeared in, total, about 7 issues before what? That's right, dying unceremoniously because Larry Hama knew he sucked. So, um... next?

 

Croc Master. Yes, who can forget that one touching scene croc Master and Cobra Commander shared? What's that? No one can? Ohh, that's right, because they never shared a scene, let along "ran around with" as you've put it. See, Croc Master came into the book when Cobra Commander was dead, and pretty much worked with Serpentor, the absolute dumbest character in GIJoe history (who also got killed for sucking, thank Hama), and when Cobra Commander returned for good, who was among the people he had killed? You betcha! Croc Master!

 

So yeah, great examples... of the comic's ability to showcase whatever moronic ideas Hasbro came up with while simultaneously featuring the iconic and worthwhile characters that have stood the test of time, and actually have a chance of being in the movie (while Raptor and Croc Master do not). Sorta backfires on you tho.

 

Oh, and to put your argument to bed, for good. I don't think there's a lot of people who will agree with you when it comes to Cobra Commander. After all, these guys seem to do a lot of terroriszing with simple hoods on...

kkk.jpg

 

 

Hama is lauded as this great writer............but again, let's look at things as they are. He's NOT a great writer--in fact, he's pretty sloppy a lot of time. Reading all those Marvel comics I have I can see a great deal of utter BS in military things that were supposed to be researched. Not art things, but dialogue and character bits that are horribly wrong or cliched.

 

I'd break this down point by point, but you're arguing the few and far between when matched up against the large and by far. So Larry Hama is guilty of stereotyping British soldiers in an American comic. Wow. But it's a large concensus that his *American* military tactics and jingo were all 100% authentic, furthered by his continual research into the always changing SOP of the US Army.

 

You also nitpick the details, while missing the juxtaposition of the military's primary purpose (government strongarm and the solider as "mindless tool") with the individual soldier, and his desire and drive to "fight for freedom wherever trouble may be", never mind the personal dramas on both sides. You also ignore what are probably some of the best examples of bad guys being redeemed in the history of comics. Right up there with Magneto, Destro, Zartan, and Storm Shadow take years to become likable and even empathetic characters, and then find themselves siding with the GIJoe team for real reasons, and based on believable circumstances. many bad guys make the journey, only to lose what was unique about them.

 

As for Cliches... Cliche is a cliche term in literature. There is nothing new under the sun, and there hasn't been for centuries. What makes literature worth the read is how those time-tested and well recognized themes and character-templates are combined, and how unique the story they create is.

 

Simply stated, there has never been another comic like exactly GIJoe, certainly not preceeding it. That alone means any small cliches found from page to page are just a matter of the limitations of the human experience. The overall endeavour was a not a rip-off, and elevated the source material most of the time. There's really not much you can say against that, except it wasn't to your liking. Which is really just a matter of opinion.

 

 

 

GIJOE was full of characters spouting off the tech specs of their gear in the midst of a battle, and really......that's writing down to an audience.

 

It was a book for kids, dunno if anyone ever told you that. Also, there were mandates handed down from Hasbro that the book, y'know, advertise the toys. So yeah, sometimes (mostly early on in the series) the dialogue was weighed down with "Hey Kids, buy these toys!" moments. But as the series progressed, those pieces of heavy-handed dialogue fell to the wayside, or were much more subtley integrated into the scripts.

 

Hama is quite overrated, imo, I hate to use the term hack..........but sadly, it applies.

 

Wow. Again, your opinion. I'll admit I hold the exact opposite one, but really, that's beyond the focus here. What you see in the book may be more stilted by your opinion. I've tried to put more subjective stuff in my reply.

 

Deep?

Depth stops, or at least slows, once you get a bad guy parading around with a hood over his head, wanting to take over the world. There's no two ways about that, its a ludicrous agenda and situation.

 

Well, that's tantamount to you aying GIJoe has no merit because one character dresses in a way you deem inappropriate. Is it just another bias of yours? Do you like Serpentor, and not Cobra Commander?

 

Or do you just think the whole franchise is a joke? Why are you a GIJoe fan?

 

Seriously.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Oh, and in the comics, Cobra's ambitions were *never* to take over the world. That's from the silly and often nonsensical cartoon, which also had the bad taste to put Serpentor in charge for an entire season. Again, i suspect you own the comics, but never actually read them. Or at least read them *after* you formed your negative opinion of them.

 

And despite the public at large *expecting* the GIJoe they think they are familiar with, I don't imagine a movie that is more accurate to the comic would be *so* different that they'd find it unrelatable. In fact, the audience would probably be grateful that the used-Car Salesman origin was used, rather than the Cobra-la "By the way, I'm a 40,000 year old snake-man" revelation.

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Geesh...I don't think ARROW was criticizing the Marvel comics! He OWNS them all for cryin' out loud, and I doubt he "owns" them like a MOC collector "owns" a G.I.Joe collection, unopened. I'm sure Ken's read every one of'em.

 

The debate is over just how WELL such a story of ARAH G.I.Joe & Cobra can transfer over to live action without being too cheesy, like what we've seen done NUMEROUS times to other toy/cartoon/comic based heros?

 

The discussion ventured into somes preference to have it be ultra REAL and more SERIOUS and examples were brought up to show that G.I.Joe ARAH (even in the precious comics) was NEVER ultra real or serious, and certainly not 100% accurate to real military.

 

Is the assertion being made here, that if you don't worship the works of Larry Hama or even DARE to cite inaccuracies of his fictional writings with regards to military jargon...you can't still be a knowledgable fan of it? <_<

 

I think it's more about being such a fan as to NOT want something like a cheesy movie version of it, to RUIN it, that's being implied here. This isn't a debate over cartoons & comics and which is more HOLY to the fans of G.I.Joe toys.

 

Comparing hooded Klu Klux Klan members to a hooded Cobra Commander for an example of real life "terrorists"? Puh leeeeez! :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, and if I showed you my collection of Klu Klux Klan action figures and talked about how COOL they were, you'd think something wrong with me right? I'd hope to shout you would! This is why we love the Cobra characters so much, even though they're the "terrorists" or villains....they not REAL! They don't exist in the REAL world, as depicted as they are, as a sort of super hero's nemesis that never DIES but just has their world domination plots foiled by the good guys, so they can return for the next episode and continue to entertain us. I'm not entertained by Klu Klux Klan members. :( I'm afraid a hooded CC might just very well LOOK like that hooded KKK guy, and that would be the thing I'm in contention about, with making a medium budget Joe movie.

 

If they attempt to make Cobra SERIOUS and more real in their "terrorist" activity, then somebody better damn well DIE at the end of the movie, because I'm not particularly FOND of REAL terrorist. Comic book super villains are one thing, and since G.I.Joes are BASED on an American military unit, with Sci-Fi futuristic flavor, yet not flying around with capes on, it's hard to treat them exactly as super hero's or real life SEALS or MARINES, so the unrealistic nature of them HAS TO stay in tact to still be appreciated, and that is fine for cartoons and comics but doesn't always work so well in real live action movies.

 

They'll be somewhere between a STARSHIP TROOPERS and ALIENS merchant marines, and if the budget is right, I'd be pulling for them to be more like the latter, but since Cameron isn't doing the G.I.Joe movie, I'm skeptical.

 

G.I.Joe should NEVER be Platoon or Saving Private Ryan! I want FUN and ACTION for a G.I.Joe movie, not gut wrenching realism and commentary on our world at war.

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Funny you should mention the theme song. A couple weeks ago a popped in a copy of the old DIC run of GIJoe and noticed they had changed the theme song. GIJoe was now International Heroes.

 

It also, for some reason, dropped "Cobra" from the theme.

 

I think you guys are watching a UK version of the DIC episodes then. In the US release, the basic song was was a little simpler.

 

"You got to stand tall when it comes down to the wire

You got to play rough when you cross that line of fire

You got to have guts to stand for your rights

You got to keep a grip, you got to hold on tight

You got to do the fighting with all of your might

You got to keep the target straight ahead in your sights!

Got to get tought. Yo Joe!"

 

Which is, of course, incredibly dumb, and exactly as DIC wanted it.

 

But the spoken-word refrain does blow both of your statements out of the water:

 

"GIJoe- America's top secret mobile strike force team

The Mission: To defend freedom

The Threat: Cobra, an eveil organization bent on world conquest.

The Battle cry: Yo Joe!"

 

So yeah, if you didnt hear that, you had some alternate theme song, again probably from the UK. I havent seen a DIC episode in almost 20 years, but I know for a fact both America and Cobra were in that song. The song itself just sucked a lot, and didn't integrate them into the main theme the way the original did. But they're in there, and that's all that matters.

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The debate is over just how WELL such a story of ARAH G.I.Joe & Cobra can transfer over to live action without being too cheesy, like what we've seen done NUMEROUS times to other toy/cartoon/comic based heros?

 

Then the comic is the way to go. because while both the comic and cartoon both had cheesey moments, and for the most part used the same characters, the comic went a lot further in dealing with the realities of military life, and touched upon the kind of real human drama you want in a movie. Arrow just made his dislike of the comic more important than the topic at hand.

 

Is the assertion being made here, that if you don't worship the works of Larry Hama or even DARE to cite inaccuracies of his fictional writings with regards to military jargon...you can't still be a knowledgable fan of it? <_<

 

Nope, the assertion is "Don't pan the comic by citing skewed examples and damn it all for a few shortcomings." My post had nothing to do with the movie. I give the cartoon it's due, and expect the same from fans who don't love the comics. Just acknowledge that it has merit, and there are things in it's run that do GIJoe a service.

 

I think it's more about being such a fan as to NOT want something like a cheesy movie version of it, to RUIN it, that's being implied here. This isn't a debate over cartoons & comics and which is more HOLY to the fans of G.I.Joe toys.

 

If it were a thread about the comics, I'd have gone much further. I just shot his examples down as best I could, for the sake of getting back to the topic at hand.

 

Comparing hooded Klu Klux Klan members to a hooded Cobra Commander for an example of real life "terrorists"? Puh leeeeez! :rolleyes:

 

I was just pointing out that, for all his grandstanding, the hood as a symbol of evil and fear has worked well in *actual, real history*. I wasn't comparing the *people*. I was comparing the article of clothing Arrow seems to hate with a real-world example of people using the sme article of clothing to successfully strike fear into an entire race of people.

 

So to reject it out-of-hand is more a reflection of his bias against the character. My opinion? You put a dangerous and deadly Cobra Commander on the screen, and his his face behind a hood... and people will buy it.

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I'll let Ken defend his own comments from here. ^_^

 

I'm sure he's not panning the comics.

 

I'm leary of a "live-action" movie is MY contention. I never read the comics, but such characters like what the story has, on both sides of it, is going to be a challenge, and if it's not treated properly, then it's going to be Street Fighter all over again, and G.I.Joe might just very well be trashed as hokey and stupid by future fans, realting to the MOVIE made of them, and not having the prior knowledge of the comics or cartoons.

 

Look how stupid Sigma Six cartoons ended up being, and they went into that, thinking they were a step above the original cartoons! HAH! :D

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Hey, I thought Van Helsing was an great movie! Totally under-appreciated. The Mummy was awesome too! I think this is gonna be a great popcorn film! I wouldn't mind seeing these done a little cheesy. I mean, how can you have a story about a military team with a NINJA in it not be at least a LITTLE cheesy? Especially when it's based on a toy line

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I liked Van helsing very much Thankyou!

 

 

And I dont want a joe movie. I want a well made trilogy.

 

 

Anyway you slice it, some will like it some will hate it.

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And I dont want a joe movie. I want a well made trilogy.

 

 

If they treated it like Star Wars or The Lord of the Ring movies, it would stand a chance, and yes a series of them would be enough to bring in a lot of the characters.

 

Are they looking to treat it with that kind of budget?

 

I don't get the impression they are, or WOULD, but who knows at this stage of the report? :)

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And I dont want a joe movie. I want a well made trilogy.

 

 

If they treated it like Star Wars or The Lord of the Ring movies, it would stand a chance, and yes a series of them would be enough to bring in a lot of the characters.

 

Are they looking to treat it with that kind of budget?

 

I don't get the impression they are, or WOULD, but who knows at this stage of the report? :)

 

Well its standard practice in Hollywood when A Movie makes a lot of money they always make a sequel, they wont even make this movie in the first place unless they think the money is there, which it is. The logical proplem is how to make a eighties cartoon into a modern Classic, For example updating Scarletts uniform comes to mind. These changes will offend some and be acceptable to others. At the End of the Day, if it has a strong Patriotic theme and is released on july 4th it will make millions.

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Ah Straight-edge--I murdered your first-born, eh?

Trodded on your childhood?

 

Sorry, mate--that's my opinion you read above , and I'll stand by it to the end of the day.

 

The comics were horrid, and I am panning them.

I've read them all, and .........well, very few of them are all that memorable-most are pretty mediocre.

I keep them for sentimental reasons.

I'm still a GIJOE fan though because I've always seen the potential in the property.

My personal and professional experience with comics, cartoons/animation etc just shows me what this stuff really is--and it colours my opinions of it. Its oft-written down to its audience, truly not high-brow writing in any sense (most comics aren't anyway) and most professionals acknowledge it only because it sold well.

Like Marvel's Secret Wars sold well, but its widely panned as being crap.

 

Hey, kids buy crap........the idea that they don't, that they recognize quality, has been disproven time and again.

( Critically speaking, the book never drew anyone considered top-drawer talent to do the guts of it. The top drawer guys of the day did covers simply because it was a cash cow. Hama wrote the book because no-one else wanted to bother with the licensing considerations. This in spite of the fact that it was the highest selling Marvel comic for several years running-something that Marvel itself has always been relucatant to acknowledge.)

 

 

Now as for the franchise............how I see it............I step away from it and look at as the layman does.

I see alot of silly things about it, and a lot of things that have been broadcast about it are truly silly. There's no rose-coloured glasses on the bridge of my nose.

That's just practical eyes looking at it.

Does it mean I'm not a fan? Does it mean I do not enjoy it?

Geez, I have all the comics, the DVD's model-sheets, the toys, soundtracks.............I've done GIJOE designs and such...........and have been involved with it for over 20 years.

Nope, I must not enjoy of be a fan of this thing at all, eh?

 

:rolleyes:

 

A person off the street will look at this property (as it is) as a broad, over-the-top gun-ho army fantasy, very simplistic, with wild over-the-top characters that have little/no bearing on reality. Its a cartoon, plain and simple--no matter where its sourced from.

And cartoons don't get a whole lot of respect to begin with.......

 

That's a pragmatic view of GIJOE--how most of the world is going to see it.

 

Now, what to do with that?

How do you address those things while still keeping the essence of those things?

Do you have Dr. Mindbender, for example? His get-up looks like something right out of a gay-pride parade. Destro? What do you do with him?

They mucked around with Doctor Doom in the Fantastic Four movie because their were serious concerns about his look in the comics. Destro's on that same precpice.

 

COBRA Commander...............yea, the Klansman look is a motif...........but the Klan also have a pretty silly look about them too......the imagery plays different depending on the region. Personally, I've always found the look to be comical--the Klansmen aren't known for being too bright, and stupidity really isn't that menacing. The idea of real-life guys running around in robes with this huge pointy hoods is.................well..........stupid looking. Never mind the real-life context in which they conducted themselves.

That can be a very hard image to sell right in live-action, especially since COBRA is NOT the Klan, and has only the most superficial trappings of same.

COBRA Commander would almost be better served to drop the hood and wear only the battle-helmet.

 

But again.......how they resolve that..............<shrugs>?

Streetfighter has been cited here many times. Look at Raul Julia as M. Bison and decide for yourself if he looks stupid in that flared officers cap? I think he does..........the film certainly plays like he does.

I accept that--its the achilles heel of fantasy like this, and solving it isn't easy.

 

That is the material this stuff is all based on, and it stems from. Like it or not, GIJOE has to rise above what is essentially a steaming pile of silliness.

 

Sorry you had to run into my opinion, and that its different from yours. I'm not taking anything away from you by stating things how I see them, so keep that in mind here.

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Well just my opinion, but I think the best version of GIJoe I've seen that would translate the into a realistic live-action movie is the GIJoe Reloaded comics.

 

 

Good Call JayC........that could be the best thing I've heard yet......although I would want Stormy in a full-blown Ninja outfit.

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Well just my opinion, but I think the best version of GIJoe I've seen that would translate the into a realistic live-action movie is the GIJoe Reloaded comics.

 

 

Good Call JayC........that could be the best thing I've heard yet......although I would want Stormy in a full-blown Ninja outfit.

 

 

AMEN-------AGREED!!!!

 

 

I FORGOT AND TOO LAZY TO GO LOOK ----BUT WHAT DID BASIC COBRAS LOOK LIKE IN THAT?

I SEEM TO REMEMBER JUST THUG LOOKING GUYS?

 

NOTHING TOO SPECIAL

 

 

AM I RIGHT OR WRONG?

 

 

DOC

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