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Old Joes vs New Joes....Serious Debate


imthebigdawg
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VH...thats it. have another glass of the KOOL AID.....by the end of next week, you wont even remember the RAH figures...New Joes rule #US1# ...anyway, please dont stop your novel writing. I actually enjoy the comments because they are actuallt cohesive thoughts. Well everything except that whole philosphical "half-full" bit.....please post pics of the poses.....also, be curious to see how people feel based on the pictures they sae and then after the open their figures....While i was always interested in them, my true appreciation cam after i open them.

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I'm sure someone has said this already, but I really think these hurt from a lack of mid thigh swivel, and at least waist swivel joints. I'f you're going to update the articulation, at least make it so the articulation is useful. I think a swivel at the shoulder insead of the elbow would have been a good idea as well. Look how poseable the Marvel Legends showdown figures were with just a few more joints.

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I'm slooooooooowly coming around on this Cobra figure.

 

Arrow is taking his pants off and VH is hitting on Cobra figures... This is definately Saturday night... @loll@

 

 

@lol@ Sunday mornings are a b!tch!

 

 

 

VH...thats it. have another glass of the KOOL AID.....by the end of next week, you wont even remember the RAH figures...New Joes rule

 

@lol@ If you were to see my collection, you'd understand there's no way in hell, I could EVER forget my RAH figures. The new figures are different, with classic appearance appeal going for them. Some things are kinda cool and a nice update, but overall...I just don't feel they're "better". For all the added features they're trying to work with, and attempts to improve upon anything ever before, the figures almost seem to be too small to handle the extras?

 

These don't exactly "marry" in with the old stuff very well, so in light of that, I think they could have gone with a slightly larger scale on them, maybe closer in size to the MLS Thor or Colossus figures, maybe even in scale with the Sgt. Savage figures and I think some of these new/added articulation features would have worked out a little better. You can only slice up these 1:18 scale figures so much, before it starts to ruin them...imo anyway. Sort of like a girl who thinks she needs five more diamond studs stamped across her ears, eyebrows and nose...to be "attractive". ^_^

 

 

...anyway, please dont stop your novel writing. I actually enjoy the comments because they are actuallt cohesive thoughts.

 

 

Thank you! ^_^

 

 

Well everything except that whole philosphical "half-full" bit

 

@loll@ understood!

 

 

If some people are "short & sweet"...I must be "long & sour"?

 

 

 

 

.....please post pics of the poses.....also, be curious to see how people feel based on the pictures they sae and then after the open their figures....While i was always interested in them, my true appreciation cam after i open them.

 

I'm going to open some of the other packs I have, and do a long, wordy, convoluted editorial/review/novel...with pics, later! @lol@

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I just got my 25th anniv.figs from toywiz.com today...have to say I still prefer the RAH figures over these new ones....these just feel cheap...probably will find these at the "dollar stores" in a few months! They look nice but when you pick one up they feel small/light and fragile compared to vintage joes! I hate cheap ass platic figures no matter how detailed they are!!! Oh well! They should have made these as Marvel Legend size 6" figures if they were going to use this kind of light-weight plastic!!! I still have every reason to create more ML styled joes/cobras.... cause these aren't replacing anything in my collection!

 

VINTAGE "RAH" FOREVER!!!!

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And the world is still flat dammit.

 

Don't think that'a a great analogy regarding the Old vs. New joes debate... but OK...if you say so!

 

 

WAAAA..HOOOooooo!!

 

world_is_flat.jpg

 

 

I don't get the analogy either? @hmmm@

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No it wasn't a very good analogy, it seemed amusing at the time though. I love the original ARAH as much as most but it's nice to move on with the times. Just because you accept the new 25th figures doesn't mean you gotta give up your old ARAH! No ones going to take them from you just because you like the new ones. ARAH legacy as the greatest toy line ever is sealed. All the new 25th figures are just a bonus. And JoeRhyno I have no idea what the burning worm means!

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I love the original ARAH as much as most but it's nice to move on with the times. Just because you accept the new 25th figures doesn't mean you gotta give up your old ARAH! No ones going to take them from you just because you like the new ones. ARAH legacy as the greatest toy line ever is sealed. All the new 25th figures are just a bonus.

 

Johnny, I've been saying that ever since 2002, when everyone was screaming about t-crotches. Well put my friend. You just said it in three sentences where I would have written eight paragraphs. (lol)

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I love the original ARAH as much as most but it's nice to move on with the times. Just because you accept the new 25th figures doesn't mean you gotta give up your old ARAH! No ones going to take them from you just because you like the new ones. ARAH legacy as the greatest toy line ever is sealed. All the new 25th figures are just a bonus.

 

Johnny, I've been saying that ever since 2002, when everyone was screaming about t-crotches. Well put my friend. You just said it in three sentences where I would have written eight paragraphs. (lol)

 

 

In a discussion about "old Joes vs new Joes" I don't think the issue of having one or the other TAKEN from anybody, is really part of it...is it? Who's suggesting that? I don't know where these ideas come from, that people think if you say you like this, better than that, you have to give up everything that is in the "THAT" column and just keep the "THIS" stuff? @lol@

 

There's a flip side to this as well, and that would be...just because you don't like the new Joes as well as the older ones, shouldn't mean you're "stuck in a rut" or "behind the times" and just "clinging onto the older ones for nostalgic purposes", like there's a flawed mentality to it. Is that a fair criticism of someone, just because they have a preference of the two choices, and it's in favor of the older ones?

 

I'm just citing that as an example btw...and not suggesting you've made that kind of criticism towards anyone DB. :)

 

You start stacking up all the incarnations of G.I.Joe over the years, starting with the 12" figures from 1964 till 2007 and have somebody tell you to pick your most favorite one or style, and even though you love them all, you still pick one that stood out for you, this shouldn't be a knock on you because you picked one that wasn't current or "with the times".

 

Not everything that is "new" is necessarily "improved"...at least I don't think so, and I've never been one to just glob on to something because it is new. Coca Cola learned this lesson a long time ago. Hasbro SHOULD have with "T-Crotch"! To me, G.I.Joe should be as solid a toy as Coke is a soft drink, and despite all the efforts to CHANGE it, and make NEW products based off it, the regular old product still SELLS best or at least, is still most popular.

 

Anyway, I'd have to see a link to a post that made some suggestion that liking new 25th Joes is a sin and you must forfeit over your entire classic ARAH collection for such blasphemy. ^_^

 

I like a little bit of everything, but not ALL of it. I think the old Joes had a lot more of the stuff that I do like though, and they were definitely more consistent in style, so that's the only reason I'm voting "old Joes". There ain't enough of the new ones to give'em all that much of a challenge yet, unless just plain ol' being something "NEW" earns them major bonus points?

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I think to judge a toyline you have to do so against current toys, not past toys of the same brand name. RAH is a superior "toyline," to anything Hasbro has done with Joe since then not because the individual toys were better but because the line was superior to anything available at the time. when RAH came out, you had unarticulated action figures clogging the shelf. RAH had tremendous articulation, which they continued to improve upon as the line progressed, then complimented it with brilliant character art, design, filecards and arsenals of weapons, vehicles and playsets never before and never since seen in a toyline. not only that, but despite the massive size that the RAH line consisted of and the tremendous amount of toys that encompassed it, it was a tremendous success! that just can't be said fo toys now. how children react to a toy is as much a part of this debate as the toys themselves.

 

the JvC, ST and VvV never came close to matching the quality of the "toyline" that RAH was, even if the sculpting was arguable better (on some figures) than RAH, and the same with 25th figures. neither lines are as ingenuitive compared to the current toys available as RAH was against its competition. RAH was great because it set the standard for action figures, vehicles, playsets AND playability for action figures for almost a decade (it pretty much peeked by the early 90's even though Hasbro tried to hang on for another few year). the same can't be said for new sculpts and the 25th. they will never have the same impact on their audience as RAH. obviously the sculpting is better on the 25th -- technology has improved, that will do it -- but the entire toyline will never match was RAH was, and will never set itself apart from current action figures the way RAH did against its competition.

 

that doesn't mean new sculpts and 25th figures aren't great, but the lines will never be what RAH was. I think that much should be undebatable.

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that doesn't mean new sculpts and 25th figures aren't great, but the lines will never be what RAH was. I think that much should be undebatable.

 

 

I agree with you, but I think its because we the collectors will never be what we were when we first saw RAH stuff, Kids with HUGE imaginations and a sense of wonderment

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but the lines will never be what RAH was. I think that much should be undebatable.

 

 

Not just was but is, and continues to be. The New stuff is great but sadly this line will Die eventually and yet RAH will continue getting new figures like the Master colletor stuff. So i say break out the New figures and enjoy them today but years from now we will still be talking about and comparing Gijoe to RAH.

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that doesn't mean new sculpts and 25th figures aren't great, but the lines will never be what RAH was. I think that much should be undebatable.

 

 

I agree with you, but I think its because we the collectors will never be what we were when we first saw RAH stuff, Kids with HUGE imaginations and a sense of wonderment

 

clap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gif

 

couldn't have said it better myself.

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that doesn't mean new sculpts and 25th figures aren't great, but the lines will never be what RAH was. I think that much should be undebatable.

 

 

I agree with you, but I think its because we the collectors will never be what we were when we first saw RAH stuff, Kids with HUGE imaginations and a sense of wonderment

 

 

You guys may have been kids...I may one of the few that can say otherwise. ^_^

 

I was 23 when RAH came out, and my youth was spent playing with Adventure Team 12" G.I.Joe, and I was QUITE impressed with those guys when I was a kid, (with a huge imagination) and later (as a young adult) when I spied the new RAH line, that imagination kinda went wild AGAIN, and here I am still talking about them 25 years later.

 

I think we're ALL G.I.Joe collectors, because we HAVEN'T lost that huge imagination, that's why we're still into them. I don't think you really outgrow an imagination if you've got it to begin with, you just find different ways of using it.

 

I don't think we need to keep trying to imply we're either wearing "rose colored glasses" or we've all lost our youthful imaginations and wonderment, just because we like the older RAH line better than these new ones.

 

I understand that a lot of people really like them and that's great. You're not "traitors" to all that was ARAH from the past, and those who may not like them as much, are not stuffy, old, die-hard patriots of RAH. Those are silly excuses. ^_^

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that doesn't mean new sculpts and 25th figures aren't great, but the lines will never be what RAH was. I think that much should be undebatable.

 

 

I agree with you, but I think its because we the collectors will never be what we were when we first saw RAH stuff, Kids with HUGE imaginations and a sense of wonderment

I disagree. huge lines of figures with great accessories, vehicles and playsets, beautifully detailed characters via filecards and artwork, and perfect complimenting media supplements like comics and cartoons galore, weren't our imaginations. they may have stimulated our imaginations, but those are what RAH had, and what no toyline (save for Star Wars) had before it (in its time), and arguable no toyline has had since. RAH wasn't just another toy, everything it had set a new bar for what toylines should be during its times. those are what made RAH great.

 

new sculpts and 25th won't have anywhere near the same impact on the toy industry, or will set the standard for which action figures should be. that is why RAH is, and always will be, the better toyline.

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new sculpts and 25th won't have anywhere near the same impact on the toy industry, or will set the standard for which action figures should be. that is why RAH is, and always will be, the better toyline.

 

um.. the new sculpt doesn't need to... cause RAH already did, lol.. then of course the numbnuts at 'bro went all hpyercolor on us in the 90s and wondered why kids/adults didn't want them anymore.. then they tried to reinvent the wheel in the early '00s didn't do a horrible job.. but it still wasn't RAH.. nothing will EVER be RAH... plain and simple... well, unless WW3 happens.. and all humanity is wiped off the face of the earth and then we really have to reinvent the wheel, lol...

 

I love RAH for what it was.. plain and simple.. I don;t collect them anymore.. I collect some new sculpts, I'll try to get some of the 25th but I love RAH cause of all the little things people have said, jumbled up, thrown in my Joerhyno smootie machine and poured into nice huge koolade pitcher.. I'm happy how they were when I was a kid, and I love looking at pictures, reviews, dio set-ups and all that stuff with the RAH figures.. will I go out and spent what little spending money I have and try to rebuild that collection I had as a kid? No, will I get a couple of my favs I had as a kid? Yes.. I still have some of them, but most were lost, sold or stolen when I was little/got out of it...

 

I personally hate "VS" subjects.. cause there's no winner.. GI Joe is GI Joe.. it's just what part you prefer or would rather collect, look at, or bottom line.. ENJOY... nothing's "better" than the other.. you can go on an don picking flaws on everthing.. heck.. when I was younger, I loooved the bread my mom used to buy at the supermarket... do I still like bread? well, yes.. but something's different.. it's still bread.. but it's not the same exact bread my mom used to buy.. was that bread better? in ways yes.. but in ways, this new bread is better too, healthwise and such.. each has it's pros and each has it's cons.. same with Joes...

 

 

anyway.. damnit...now I want a sandwhich.. ARROW.. care to join me?

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new sculpts and 25th won't have anywhere near the same impact on the toy industry, or will set the standard for which action figures should be. that is why RAH is, and always will be, the better toyline.

 

um.. the new sculpt doesn't need to... cause RAH already did, lol.. then of course the numbnuts at 'bro went all hpyercolor on us in the 90s and wondered why kids/adults didn't want them anymore.. then they tried to reinvent the wheel in the early '00s didn't do a horrible job.. but it still wasn't RAH.. nothing will EVER be RAH... plain and simple... well, unless WW3 happens.. and all humanity is wiped off the face of the earth and then we really have to reinvent the wheel, lol...

that's my point. RAH didn't reinvent the wheel, they simply expanded upon what was on the market and made a product that was far superior to any other toy at the time, and became the model for what action figures should be. that is the standard that the G.I. JOE brand is known fr and whar RAH continued.

 

new sculpts and 25th did not and are not anywhere close to such innovation. it is the standard that RAH set that makes it great, not that it reinvented anything. new sculpts and 25th are just as good when it comes to the figures themselves, but I am talking about the toyline as a whole, and its impact on toys that came afterwards. there is a difference between those, or at least to me. I am in no way insinuating fans of either lines are better or wrong for their preferences, I am only talking about the toyline themselves.

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I see where there arguments lie, and each of them has merit, but Comparing ANY GI Joe line with the classic RAH stuff is impossible. RAH re-launched GI Joe and in many ways re-invented it. Before that, GI Joe were 12 inch figures with limited bases, playsets and vehicles because you would run out of room at some point.

 

I mean, NO VEHICLE made today is going to be anywhere near as cool as the FLAGG and NO BASE is going to be a cool as the original GI Joe base.

 

Comparing the classic stuff with the 25th anniversery figures almost makes no sense since so far ALL of the 25th figs are simply modern replicas of the classics, no real departure as far as the overall feel of it.

 

I could take the 1984 Storm Shadow and stand it next to ANY GI Joe since and it will still hold up, it always will.

 

Its the same reason you cannot compare Star Wars A New Hope to Revenge of the Sith. ANH will ALWAYS seem up to date because it was SOOOO far ahead of its time, the classic GI Joe figures were a quantum leap from what was available at the time, and because of that, they will always seem current, even though sadly they are sorely lacking in equipment and detailing. I mean honestly here, 1982 Straight ArmSnake Eyes compared to even the VvV Snake Eyes is laughable.

 

1982 Gung Ho compared to the 25th annversery one ? Not even close.

 

I look at the RAH figs as the classics, the bar that was set, but the bar wasnt raised with the 25th stuff, it was replaced with a better made bar... so they cannot exceed it, only offer a contemporary updating.

 

You want to truly compare the RAH to a GI Joe product that is a departure and a new direction, then compare it to Sigma Six, that would make more sense if your looking to compare to vastly different products from the same line.

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Okay, all kidding aside.........this has been a interesting topic.

 

I now have a serious question to pose to the lot of you.........think upon it, and answer.

It follows in the vein of something VH asked about the 25th figures, but I'll expand the question.

 

Taking the premise that we all pretty much accept: that RAH is considered the benchmark and would be hard to beat--if the 25th Anniversary line were to be expanded to the scope of the original RAH line, HOW WOULD YOU ENVISION IT SO THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER THAN RAH??

This is hypothetical, of course.

What attributes would you see, or like to see for the version of GIJOE that we have, at this moment, to make it as great as the RAH line it pays tribute to?

 

Would it be just straight re-issues and re-dresses of vehicles, figures and playsets, or would you use the figures and their re-dressing as a stepping stone for all-new designs?

Would it be another VAMP Mk II, or a re-done VAMP Mk III?? Would you want the classic HISS tank, or a tricked-out modernized version of the HISS, with loads of detail and an almost eerie "reality" about it?

The sky is the limit here.

 

Does the 25th line need to go to the next level, or does it just need to respect the past and pay homage to it?

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