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Old Joes vs New Joes....Serious Debate


imthebigdawg
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After opening a new Cobra Officer figure (from the 25th new stuff) I'm even MORE old school RAH brand of Joe toys than EVER!

 

These new toys they're calling G.I.Joe, have been reduced to cheap and flimsy pieces of VISUALLY pleasing (only) nostalgic pieces for display, but not really a action figure TOY, in the TRUE sense of the word. :(

 

They've not made ARAH G.I.Joe "BETTER" they've just went ahead and made it all over again, but different, and the difference is not better, it's actually worse...imo! ;)

 

The new figures can't move nearly as much as the old figures could. Swivel wrists and feet are all the new figures GOT on the old Joes, but what they LOST in comparison, still makes them inferior, in quality and "play" factor.

 

I wish I could afford all those convention sets from MC, becuase they're about the only Joes left....worth collecting.

 

Well im with you on the soft plastic on the hands of these. Hasbro I think will need to address that in future waves, but what you call cheap plastic I call the standard for most figure lines today. I played and posed them extensivly to shoot images of them and didnt have one figure break on me. Thats probably why Hasbro used the softer plastic because with those tiny thin joints, they need to be kinda bendy so they don't snap and break. Yeah the big rivit joints of old im sure are heavier and maybe even more durable but they arent as astetically pleasing.

 

I'll gladly give up a little of that play factor that you call it for figures that truely look like their cartoon and comic counterparts they were designed after. In the end this argument really comes down to what appeals more to you, but for me the looks is a big part, even when I was a kid.

 

Just to note in my defense of these, I don't think they are perfect. I think Gung Ho and Roadblock could use some real improvments, and as I said above the soft plastic on the hands is something they should fix so they hold their weapons better, but out of 10 figures, I love 8 of em, and thats not to bad an average. No line is gonna have every figure be perfect. Not in the 80's and not now.

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Yeah, and all of those RAH figures used in comparison, were from the very first year or two of the line, before some changes were made to improve upon them in areas of articulation, details and proportions.

 

1. I still think the grinning Duke V1 looks better than the new Duke.

 

2. The new Snakes Eyes head sculpt is definitely better than the V1 version.

 

3. I don't like the new Soldier/Officer figure at all, and while that V1 Trooper had a funky lookin' head on him, I think I still prefer it over the new ones, but maybe not as well as the 6-pack version, I once thought was too skinny, but not anymore.

 

4. V1 Gung Ho head sculpt beats the new one hands down.

 

5. The new Storm Shadow head sculpt is nice, so I'll give that comparison to the new guys.

 

6. The V1 CC gets my choice here, as the new one stinks.

 

7. The new Destro looks better than the chrome version of the old V1 Destro, but it's just as limited in articulation, so it's a visula difference in detail, but after 25 years I'd hope SOMETHING about them would be "better"...but it ain't much.

 

8. The V1 Baroness gets the vote here as well, as those other two are horrible looking.

 

 

My vision might not be perfect, but I don't think I'm looking at these with any kind of biased viewpoint. I WANT the new stuff to be better, but it ain't happening yet. I can only state my preference and nothing else. Some of the new stuff has a few improvements in details and such, but the poor quality of them kills it.

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Well im with you on the soft plastic on the hands of these. Hasbro I think will need to address that in future waves, but what you call cheap plastic I call the standard for most figure lines today. I played and posed them extensivly to shoot images of them and didnt have one figure break on me. Thats probably why Hasbro used the softer plastic because with those tiny thin joints, they need to be kinda bendy so they don't snap and break. Yeah the big rivit joints of old im sure are heavier and maybe even more durable but they arent as astetically pleasing.

 

I'll gladly give up a little of that play factor that you call it for figures that truely look like their cartoon and comic counterparts they were designed after. In the end this argument really comes down to what appeals more to you, but for me the looks is a big part, even when I was a kid.

 

 

That's why I think the collectors of G.I.Joe have killed the line. They only want stuff that LOOKS good and not stuff that is functional as a neat action figure toy. All the collectors want is the 1980's figures, remade all over again, in the same exact versions they love and collected as kids, and since they're not really kids anymore, don't want them to PLAY with, but just to have and hold and cherish and take them back in time. Hell, 70% of these collectors don't even take them out of the package, so again, it's unimportant to them how these things move and bend.

 

These new Joes aren't giving up just a "little" play factor, they've lost the range of motion in the arms, the legs, the heads, the waist. That's quite a bit, for a few features like swivel wrists and feet, and with the hands on them being so crappy like they are, that added flip of the wrsit doesn't really ADD anything to them as an improvement over the old styles.

 

Even with the better details on some of these new figures, compared to the older ones, things like the hands, the mid chest joint, the forearm joints and the horrible mask looking appearance of the heads now, they're not totally superior to the old figures in even looks.

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Honestly I dont know how you can look at those comparison shots and say that RAH sculpts look better. I'll give RAH points for probably being more durable, but when it comes to looks the new figures win hands down.

 

I really don't see how they're "better". They're different - the old ones have rounder heads and the new ones look more like comic-style superhero proportions - but I don't see that as being any better. People DO have round heads, after all, and bigger than most people seem to realize here.

 

The new bodies are more naturalistic, in terms of shape - I will give you that. However, the proportions are more normal in the old RAH figures - not as much variation (Roadblock should be bigger, but whatever), but not comic-book superhero style. Personally, I like that, because it's more realistic.

 

Yeah, and all of those RAH figures used in comparison, were from the very first year or two of the line, before some changes were made to improve upon them in areas of articulation, details and proportions.

 

1. I still think the grinning Duke V1 looks better than the new Duke.

 

2. The new Snakes Eyes head sculpt is definitely better than the V1 version.

 

3. I don't like the new Soldier/Officer figure at all, and while that V1 Trooper had a funky lookin' head on him, I think I still prefer it over the new ones, but maybe not as well as the 6-pack version, I once thought was too skinny, but not anymore.

 

4. V1 Gung Ho head sculpt beats the new one hands down.

 

5. The new Storm Shadow head sculpt is nice, so I'll give that comparison to the new guys.

 

6. The V1 CC gets my choice here, as the new one stinks.

 

7. The new Destro looks better than the chrome version of the old V1 Destro, but it's just as limited in articulation, so it's a visula difference in detail, but after 25 years I'd hope SOMETHING about them would be "better"...but it ain't much.

 

8. The V1 Baroness gets the vote here as well, as those other two are horrible looking.

 

 

My vision might not be perfect, but I don't think I'm looking at these with any kind of biased viewpoint. I WANT the new stuff to be better, but it ain't happening yet. I can only state my preference and nothing else. Some of the new stuff has a few improvements in details and such, but the poor quality of them kills it.

 

I agree with you completely. The only headsculpts that really look good to me in the new line are the ones that AREN'T "real" headsculpts. It's easier to make a guy in a mask look really good, after all. The "human face" headsculpts are the ones that I don't like. They look like bad cartoons, whereas the RAH versions have a lot more variety, character, and real human features. One reason why I like Duke's grin!

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Not sure where all the criticism is coming from regarding the playability of the figures....I just gave my 3 year old son and 3 yeard old nephew the new SE and SS (no weapons) and they have played with no n stop and they look brand new...Also, I was showing him how to pose the figures and they appear to pose much better than any Joe figures that I can remember. So far, I would have to say that the accessories are awesome, the figures look great in their case, in various poses, and they seem to be very sturdy. I love these things and hope they make them forever.

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Not sure where all the criticism is coming from regarding the playability of the figures....I just gave my 3 year old son and 3 yeard old nephew the new SE and SS (no weapons) and they have played with no n stop and they look brand new

 

3 years old? @hmmm@ I'm thinking most 3 years olds will play with just about anything, and I doubt it's in the same manner as how a 8-10 year old MIGHT play with these same action figures. No offense, but that's really not the best example to try and use, as far as these toys being better than the old figures, in playability or durability.

 

...Also, I was showing him how to pose the figures and they appear to pose much better than any Joe figures that I can remember.

 

We're playing with two different figures then, because the ones I've played with and tried to pose, have all kinds of limitations compared to some of the more recent Joe figures they came out with since 2000. Not even as well as most the 80's/90's Joes. Like I mentioned before, they have the swivels at the wrists and feet, as far as any real additional articulation features over the RAH line of old. They lack in OTHER areas though, and other areas MORE crucial to "playing" with them, and being able to fully pose them in any better poses than before. No waist articulation (no o-ring) the legs don't lift properly in front of them (for proper sitting positions, like in vehicles and whatnot) due to the diaper crotch design, the elbows don't bend at a 90 degree angle like the other figures could. The heads are on a ball joint, yet they still don't look down or up properly, so with all that funky looking articulation on the new style heads, we're BACK to 1982 swivel necks? <_<

 

The hands are smallish (like carnies) and rubbery soft, so much so they're worthless in holding onto their weapons very well, so no improvement THERE over the C-cupped hands of old.

 

 

No, I honestly can't figure where you're getting that they pose "much better" than any Joes before? They might LOOK better in some cases, on the details, and of course, they've designed them to LOOK just like the old figures did and how the favorite characters appeared in the cartoons and comics, therefore striking the nostalgic chord in the fans of them from those times, but that's really all I'm seeing, that's making anybody not SEE the flaws in these things.

 

 

So far, I would have to say that the accessories are awesome, the figures look great in their case, in various poses, and they seem to be very sturdy. I love these things and hope they make them forever.

 

A hand drawn and autographed picture of Snake Eyes, by Larry Hama or one of the other artists involved, looks good on display also, but there ain't much else to do with it, but just LOOK at it. I know I'm an adult who collects a childs toy, but it was much more fun when it really was just a childs toy, that was so damn neat and fun to play around with, I wanted to have them all. :(

 

These are highly detailed, but low grade action figures. They're appearance took precedent over anything else, with the fancy artwork and packaging being part of it. They're not worth $6.00 that's for sure.

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That's why I think the collectors of G.I.Joe have killed the line. They only want stuff that LOOKS good and not stuff that is functional as a neat action figure toy. All the collectors want is the 1980's figures, remade all over again, in the same exact versions they love and collected as kids, and since they're not really kids anymore, don't want them to PLAY with, but just to have and hold and cherish and take them back in time. Hell, 70% of these collectors don't even take them out of the package, so again, it's unimportant to them how these things move and bend.

 

Well when they tried something new like Simga 6, the majority of you all trashed the crap out of it. You also got to realize 8-10 year olds dont play with action figures that much anymore. By that age they have moved on to other things like video games. that 3 year old is actually a prime age demographic toy companies try to reach now, not saying these 25th Anniversary figures are really meant to appeal to 3 yr olds, but just reminding you that the toy world isnt so simple as it was back when we were kids. I think you have to really try and reach a balance between collectors and kids alike to have a succesfull toyline these days for the boys action figure demographic.

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That's why I think the collectors of G.I.Joe have killed the line. They only want stuff that LOOKS good and not stuff that is functional as a neat action figure toy. All the collectors want is the 1980's figures, remade all over again, in the same exact versions they love and collected as kids, and since they're not really kids anymore, don't want them to PLAY with, but just to have and hold and cherish and take them back in time. Hell, 70% of these collectors don't even take them out of the package, so again, it's unimportant to them how these things move and bend.

 

Well when they tried something new like Simga 6, the majority of you all trashed the crap out of it.

 

@lol@ You got me DEAD to rights there!

 

Sigma six wasn't exactly the "something new" most of us RAH collectors were clamouring for. G.I.Joe basically pooped out on us, with all that's involved with the ARAH story, and Hasbro just tried to pound out the last bit of it's life, by changing style after style, to changing theme after theme and doing all this with the SAME ol' core fan favorites, and I was getting burnt out on it.

 

No, S6 certainly wasn't what I was wanting to see as far as something new, and I was rather disgusted by it.

 

You also got to realize 8-10 year olds dont play with action figures that much anymore. By that age they have moved on to other things like video games. that 3 year old is actually a prime age demographic toy companies try to reach now, not saying these 25th Anniversary figures are really meant to appeal to 3 yr olds, but just reminding you that the toy world isnt so simple as it was back when we were kids.

 

I dunno...it STILL advertises them as being appropriate for ages 5+?? @hmmm@ Hasbro has plenty of toddler type toys MORE appropriate for that age group, like the Rescue Hero's for example. Ages 5-8 are probably going to be it, with regards to kids that might still have an interest in these action figure toys. Either that's sad or I was a sad young boy, because I remember still getting G.I.Joe toys when I was 13!! @loll@

 

I think you have to really try and reach a balance between collectors and kids alike to have a succesfull toyline these days for the boys action figure demographic.

 

If Hasbro was smart (not saying they're dumb, but I'm still p!ssed about this Cobra Officer I opened) they'd pretend these G.I.Joe toys are STILL for the type of kids they were making them for back in the 80's, and not making them for the SAME kids from then, that are grown up NOW! See the difference?

 

Hell, they do that, and they just might get those 8-10 year olds BACK! ^_^

 

3 year olds can have a blast playing with an wooden spoon.

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That's why I think the collectors of G.I.Joe have killed the line. They only want stuff that LOOKS good and not stuff that is functional as a neat action figure toy. All the collectors want is the 1980's figures, remade all over again, in the same exact versions they love and collected as kids, and since they're not really kids anymore, don't want them to PLAY with, but just to have and hold and cherish and take them back in time. Hell, 70% of these collectors don't even take them out of the package, so again, it's unimportant to them how these things move and bend.

 

Well when they tried something new like Simga 6, the majority of you all trashed the crap out of it.

 

@lol@ You got me DEAD to rights there!

 

Sigma six wasn't exactly the "something new" most of us RAH collectors were clamouring for. G.I.Joe basically pooped out on us, with all that's involved with the ARAH story, and Hasbro just tried to pound out the last bit of it's life, by changing style after style, to changing theme after theme and doing all this with the SAME ol' core fan favorites, and I was getting burnt out on it.

 

No, S6 certainly wasn't what I was wanting to see as far as something new, and I was rather disgusted by it.

 

You also got to realize 8-10 year olds dont play with action figures that much anymore. By that age they have moved on to other things like video games. that 3 year old is actually a prime age demographic toy companies try to reach now, not saying these 25th Anniversary figures are really meant to appeal to 3 yr olds, but just reminding you that the toy world isnt so simple as it was back when we were kids.

 

I dunno...it STILL advertises them as being appropriate for ages 5+?? @hmmm@ Hasbro has plenty of toddler type toys MORE appropriate for that age group, like the Rescue Hero's for example. Ages 5-8 are probably going to be it, with regards to kids that might still have an interest in these action figure toys. Either that's sad or I was a sad young boy, because I remember still getting G.I.Joe toys when I was 13!! @loll@

 

I think you have to really try and reach a balance between collectors and kids alike to have a succesfull toyline these days for the boys action figure demographic.

 

If Hasbro was smart (not saying they're dumb, but I'm still p!ssed about this Cobra Officer I opened) they'd pretend these G.I.Joe toys are STILL for the type of kids they were making them for back in the 80's, and not making them for the SAME kids from then, that are grown up NOW! See the difference?

 

Hell, they do that, and they just might get those 8-10 year olds BACK! ^_^

 

3 year olds can have a blast playing with an wooden spoon.

 

Not sure if you have or know any three year olds, but they are tough on toys. He has broken almost every McFarlane figure he has gotten his hands on. granted they are not "toys" per se, but he has pulled, twisted, and thrown the figure. Nevertheless, I was happy to give him the figure because it reminded me of when I was little.....Also, never said the figures were 100% perfect. But, I still think they are amazing....Does Duke, Roadblock, Gung Ho have so articulation problems? Yes. But, so did the first generation 82 figures. Hopefully, they will fix them and offer them in some sort of single card....Also, I think I fall into that "collectors" group that you say are ruining the line. Therefore, I am sure that our opinions will always differ. However, when me and my brothers were you, we "played" with Gi Joes by setting up scenes. These figures are near perfect for that and is the main reason why I am so pleased.

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Not sure if you have or know any three year olds, but they are tough on toys. He has broken almost every McFarlane figure he has gotten his hands on. granted they are not "toys" per se, but he has pulled, twisted, and thrown the figure. Nevertheless, I was happy to give him the figure because it reminded me of when I was little

 

I've been a parent and step parent to 6, starting from their birth on up, oldest being 18 now. So yes, I know all about the devastation those little 3 year olds can wreck on delicate items, and many toys with small parts and fragil connections like action figures can have. They seem to be able to put a fair amount of torque on them, that can break the most durable of'em. ^_^

 

 

.....Also, never said the figures were 100% perfect. But, I still think they are amazing....Does Duke, Roadblock, Gung Ho have so articulation problems? Yes. But, so did the first generation 82 figures.

 

And in the interest of staying with the topic, I've stated my prefernce for the Older figures, when compared to these newer ones, specifically these 25th anniversary ones. They're not more poseable in my opinion. Only the swivel wrists and moveable feet are the advantage in them, but they've LOST points elsewhere, that I'd still rather them have, that the old ones DO have, and it's in all the right places, that makes them "better" imo. :)

 

Hopefully, they will fix them and offer them in some sort of single card....Also, I think I fall into that "collectors" group that you say are ruining the line. Therefore, I am sure that our opinions will always differ.

 

Understood and fair enough. Every collector has different reasons for collecting certain things, so don't let my ranting about these, put you off against me personally. I'm finding fault in the toys and not you, and although I'm questioning you on the opinions you have on them, quoting you ansd such it's only out of interest and discussion fodder. I'm just really REALLY disappointed in these and still ranting on them, so I apologize if I've gone on an attack mode towards your posted comments, I didn't mean for it to be as harsh as it appears. You have every right to like what you like, and nobody should ever imply you like "crap", but I guess when we complain so hard about something, that somebody else likes a lot, it sorta comes across that way, no matter how we put it. ;)

 

However, when me and my brothers were you, we "played" with Gi Joes by setting up scenes. These figures are near perfect for that and is the main reason why I am so pleased.

 

When I was a kid (in the 60's) I was HELL on my action figures, and I went thru a lot of'em. Some were dug up in the nieghbors yard YEARS later, from where I buried the dead and forgot about them after I broke from "play" to go in for supper. Can't believe I missed a head count, but my parents kinda spoiled me and I had several 12" G.I.Joes to play with. My talking Joe was lost to the bottom of the pond all winter after a fall diving expedition went sour and the string I was using to lower him into the water (had the deep sea outfit) broke, and no one was brave enough to bare the chill of the water, so it was late spring before I got him back. He died in the hospital shortly after, when our pet racoon Pepi broke out of his cage and chewed him to bits! :o OH THE HUMANITY!!! @lol@

 

Anyway, I didn't start collecting the ARAH style Joes until I was in my early 20's, so when I say "play" it's in a different kind of play than what one would expect from a child, on his hands and knees in the sandbox out back. No machine gun sound effects from my mouth, and screams of dying heroic Joes type stuff, but the imagination is STILL there, in me, and holding these figures in your hand, posing them, and displaying them, taking them apart and making customs with them, DIO stories are a blast, and all the things we can imagine for them, in THIS kind of "play" scenario....is what I'm into still.

 

My biggest gripe with these figures, is that Hasbro should never..never..NEVER go BACKWARDS on this stuff. They've farted around too much and hit some great strides and worked out some pretty cool new features for these toys only to back peddle and come back with something inferior to it's predecessor? :huh:

 

If the Major Barrage figure had the articulation in the ankles? PERFECTO!! They'd need not do ANYTHING else to them and I'd be thrilled as all get out! :)

 

They just couldn't leave it alone, and I don't think these new ones are superior at all. They don't even measure up in some points to the 1982 Joes. They have no character or charm about them, but even without all that, they have too many bad points in their construction, for me to be as happy as I WANT to be, with having Joes on the market again for us.

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My biggest gripe with these figures, is that Hasbro should never..never..NEVER go BACKWARDS on this stuff. They've farted around too much and hit some great strides and worked out some pretty cool new features for these toys only to back peddle and come back with something inferior to it's predecessor?

 

Hasbro has gone backwards...several times. Been a LOT of weaker folowups to better earlier product, but there's always been something that came along that bettered or at least matched the previous best stuff.

 

 

My local Mistah Sugah messenged me today and told me the 25th Joes I've ordered through him are coming in next week. I'm stoked, but I'm also wary.

I've collected similar stuff before and I expect limitations to these figures. The reviews have given me a heads up on them.

 

My own evaluation will be based on the level of detail, the "sweet spots" they can hit in posing and the emotional "feel" they have about them. The sweet spots are the more important of the three criteria for me, because doing MORE with these toys will spark my interest in getting morre of them as new ones emerge. If their functionality is limited--as its being observed here, my interest will be flash-in-the-pan.

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Not sure if you have or know any three year olds, but they are tough on toys. He has broken almost every McFarlane figure he has gotten his hands on. granted they are not "toys" per se, but he has pulled, twisted, and thrown the figure. Nevertheless, I was happy to give him the figure because it reminded me of when I was little

 

I've been a parent and step parent to 6, starting from their birth on up, oldest being 18 now. So yes, I know all about the devastation those little 3 year olds can wreck on delicate items, and many toys with small parts and fragil connections like action figures can have. They seem to be able to put a fair amount of torque on them, that can break the most durable of'em. ^_^

 

 

.....Also, never said the figures were 100% perfect. But, I still think they are amazing....Does Duke, Roadblock, Gung Ho have so articulation problems? Yes. But, so did the first generation 82 figures.

 

And in the interest of staying with the topic, I've stated my prefernce for the Older figures, when compared to these newer ones, specifically these 25th anniversary ones. They're not more poseable in my opinion. Only the swivel wrists and moveable feet are the advantage in them, but they've LOST points elsewhere, that I'd still rather them have, that the old ones DO have, and it's in all the right places, that makes them "better" imo. :)

 

Hopefully, they will fix them and offer them in some sort of single card....Also, I think I fall into that "collectors" group that you say are ruining the line. Therefore, I am sure that our opinions will always differ.

 

Understood and fair enough. Every collector has different reasons for collecting certain things, so don't let my ranting about these, put you off against me personally. I'm finding fault in the toys and not you, and although I'm questioning you on the opinions you have on them, quoting you ansd such it's only out of interest and discussion fodder. I'm just really REALLY disappointed in these and still ranting on them, so I apologize if I've gone on an attack mode towards your posted comments, I didn't mean for it to be as harsh as it appears. You have every right to like what you like, and nobody should ever imply you like "crap", but I guess when we complain so hard about something, that somebody else likes a lot, it sorta comes across that way, no matter how we put it. ;)

 

However, when me and my brothers were you, we "played" with Gi Joes by setting up scenes. These figures are near perfect for that and is the main reason why I am so pleased.

 

When I was a kid (in the 60's) I was HELL on my action figures, and I went thru a lot of'em. Some were dug up in the nieghbors yard YEARS later, from where I buried the dead and forgot about them after I broke from "play" to go in for supper. Can't believe I missed a head count, but my parents kinda spoiled me and I had several 12" G.I.Joes to play with. My talking Joe was lost to the bottom of the pond all winter after a fall diving expedition went sour and the string I was using to lower him into the water (had the deep sea outfit) broke, and no one was brave enough to bare the chill of the water, so it was late spring before I got him back. He died in the hospital shortly after, when our pet racoon Pepi broke out of his cage and chewed him to bits! :o OH THE HUMANITY!!! @lol@

 

Anyway, I didn't start collecting the ARAH style Joes until I was in my early 20's, so when I say "play" it's in a different kind of play than what one would expect from a child, on his hands and knees in the sandbox out back. No machine gun sound effects from my mouth, and screams of dying heroic Joes type stuff, but the imagination is STILL there, in me, and holding these figures in your hand, posing them, and displaying them, taking them apart and making customs with them, DIO stories are a blast, and all the things we can imagine for them, in THIS kind of "play" scenario....is what I'm into still.

 

My biggest gripe with these figures, is that Hasbro should never..never..NEVER go BACKWARDS on this stuff. They've farted around too much and hit some great strides and worked out some pretty cool new features for these toys only to back peddle and come back with something inferior to it's predecessor? :huh:

 

If the Major Barrage figure had the articulation in the ankles? PERFECTO!! They'd need not do ANYTHING else to them and I'd be thrilled as all get out! :)

 

They just couldn't leave it alone, and I don't think these new ones are superior at all. They don't even measure up in some points to the 1982 Joes. They have no character or charm about them, but even without all that, they have too many bad points in their construction, for me to be as happy as I WANT to be, with having Joes on the market again for us.

 

never took anything you said personally. I love topics like this because I truly want to hear what others think, not matter if I disagree....Agree on Major Barrage figure except for the head sculpt...Loved the arms on him, Torch, Snake-Eyes, Gung-Ho. However, I really like the head sculpts. The new Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow and Scarlet are great. IMO, the best I have ever scene on a Joe. However, that Torch was pretty good too. One thing i would love to do is watch the design process for an "entire" 6 figure wave. It baffles me how the figures can be designed so differently....

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I agree. Not to be a suck-up, but I love what VH has to say, because number one...he's honest, but not in an insulting, personally-attacking way. For example, he USED to hate Sigma 6 with a passion, and I knew it, and I always liked it, and he knew it. He'd jab at me every now and then over it, and I'd take a jab at him over it, and we'd be fine. We knew where each other stood. And we respected each other's opinon. Maybe he thought I was wrong, and I'd think he was an absent-minded senior citizen that played with WWI-era metal soldiers and was all up in arms when they changed to plastic. @smilepunch@ (lol) But we were fine with each other. (Just kidding about that last part.) It's just that VH is opinionated, but in a respectful, no-nonsense, intelligent yet-in-a-funny-joshing-big-brother type of way. Second...he's been collecting a long time, and he's seen every change that's come along. He's earned the right to have an opinion about this stuff. He's paid his dues. (Okay. Enough sucking-up.) (lol)

 

I welcome all opinions and enjoy reading everyone's take on things. It seems that that's one of the good things to come out of the mixed-bag that is the modern G.I. Joe line(s). There's plenty to talk about. (lol) And it's all fun and interesting, as long as nobody's being a jerk...

 

I also agree about Hasbro's design process; they use the expensive mold card all the time, but wouldn't it take reworking multiple molds for every time they decided they wanted to try something different? It's like they would have to go back to the drawing-board over and over again, thereby developing different-style castings over and over again. It mystifies my mind.

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One thing i would love to do is watch the design process for an "entire" 6 figure wave. It baffles me how the figures can be designed so differently....

 

If there's 12 different figues in a wave, there might be 8 different sculptors, with maybe one or two of them handling figures earmarked for re-used elements. The varying styles of each sculptor can be reflected in the different looks in individual figures.

 

 

I also agree about Hasbro's design process; they use the expensive mold card all the time, but wouldn't it take reworking multiple molds for every time they decided they wanted to try something different? It's like they would have to go back to the drawing-board over and over again, thereby developing different-style castings over and over again. It mystifies my mind

 

As I understand it, adding to a mold usually means sculpting new cavities into it to accomodate added details. That is the usually inexpensive way of doing things as it just expands the useful life of a given mold. Where it becomes a problem is when a item is to be re-issued "as it originally appeared", and the existing molds have all been modified.

Sometimes parts have to be added to a mold to create fitting holes for new parts--which means ADDING parts to the mold--because any cavity on a cast part has to have an OPPOSITE protruding part on the mold.

 

These molds have a shelf-life because the injected molten plastic is corrosive, and the molds only last so long before the surfaces of them degrade to the point they are unusable. Remember some of the softened detail on Trailblazer? That was because his mold was starting to suffer.

Cleaning up a mold basically means creating a new surface. If the degradations are minute, the mold can be carefully reground and then used again.

Griding all new molds takes time and the materials are expensive--hence the reluctance to constantly create new molds within a given line.

When they make these things, they make them BIG--with the intent of creating dozens to hundreds of castings at a time.

A single mold might accomodate 100's of the same part ( though dozens is more likely)

ANY chance for re-use is considered less money spent in production and thus more profits at the end of the day.

Hasbro made whole sublines( Sky Patrol, Tiger Force) using re-used parts ( bodies), and just spent money for tooling things like heads, meaning they could field product that would cost them very little.

Its part of their secret for success for their long history.

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You also got to realize 8-10 year olds dont play with action figures that much anymore. By that age they have moved on to other things like video games. that 3 year old is actually a prime age demographic toy companies try to reach now, not saying these 25th Anniversary figures are really meant to appeal to 3 yr olds, but just reminding you that the toy world isnt so simple as it was back when we were kids.

 

I dunno...it STILL advertises them as being appropriate for ages 5+?? @hmmm@

 

Foul! Objection! Flag on the field! Prosecution is using a safety warning to argue against the changing culture of child recreational development. @nono@

 

15 yard penalty. $15 fine. @smash@ @smilepunch@

 

-PJ

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One thing i would love to do is watch the design process for an "entire" 6 figure wave. It baffles me how the figures can be designed so differently....

 

If there's 12 different figues in a wave, there might be 8 different sculptors, with maybe one or two of them handling figures earmarked for re-used elements. The varying styles of each sculptor can be reflected in the different looks in individual figures.

 

 

I also agree about Hasbro's design process; they use the expensive mold card all the time, but wouldn't it take reworking multiple molds for every time they decided they wanted to try something different? It's like they would have to go back to the drawing-board over and over again, thereby developing different-style castings over and over again. It mystifies my mind

 

As I understand it, adding to a mold usually means sculpting new cavities into it to accomodate added details. That is the usually inexpensive way of doing things as it just expands the useful life of a given mold. Where it becomes a problem is when a item is to be re-issued "as it originally appeared", and the existing molds have all been modified.

Sometimes parts have to be added to a mold to create fitting holes for new parts--which means ADDING parts to the mold--because any cavity on a cast part has to have an OPPOSITE protruding part on the mold.

 

These molds have a shelf-life because the injected molten plastic is corrosive, and the molds only last so long before the surfaces of them degrade to the point they are unusable. Remember some of the softened detail on Trailblazer? That was because his mold was starting to suffer.

Cleaning up a mold basically means creating a new surface. If the degradations are minute, the mold can be carefully reground and then used again.

Griding all new molds takes time and the materials are expensive--hence the reluctance to constantly create new molds within a given line.

When they make these things, they make them BIG--with the intent of creating dozens to hundreds of castings at a time.

A single mold might accomodate 100's of the same part ( though dozens is more likely)

ANY chance for re-use is considered less money spent in production and thus more profits at the end of the day.

Hasbro made whole sublines( Sky Patrol, Tiger Force) using re-used parts ( bodies), and just spent money for tooling things like heads, meaning they could field product that would cost them very little.

Its part of their secret for success for their long history.

 

 

i here what u are saying regarding the sculptors, but that makes it even worse. You would think that there should be a standard that each sculptor is held to. A company the size of Hasbro should have a high level of Quality Care. I would think that people in the company would be able to look at a line and say, "wow, this looks fantastic, but this figure looks like #$@#" and decide that (A) it needs to be reworked or (B) it needs to be scrapped. Also, maybe some of these toy companies should focus on a few successful lines and scrap all the other crap that they produce. i swear to god, i work through TRU and wonder how anyone ok'ed a budget to make some of the junk on the shelves.

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I can still remember the first time I saw Gi Joe....1982...Child's World in Totowa, NJ. They were, by far, my favorite toy growing up. However, as I got older, my Joes were passed onto my little brothers and then slowly disappearred. Before I got into collecting Joes as an adult, I feel I "romanticized" the old RAH. However, when I really looked back with an "objective" eye, the figures are not only lacking detail, they ugly by todays standard. Therefore, I wonder why so many people are still so hooked on them. I admit that I am not nostaligic. If you can take something old and make it better, then do it. I just picked up the new figures and really find very few flaws with them. If they changed nothing, i would still be extremely happy. Just curious what other people thought.

 

 

My first Joes were either birthday or Christmas of '82, I just remeber them being presents. I was big on Star Wars and got FX-7, but then I remeber getting new army figures! Cool army guys beat out boring robot, so that was that. Zap ended up in the toilet, I still have Rock N Roll, and who knows about the rest. As far as seeing them with an objective eye, keep in mind that in 1982, action figures scaled at 3 3/4 inches didn't have a large range of movement, GI Joe changed that. They were detailed enough, but I'm also from the school of: if you can do it better, then do it! Except the wrists on the new Duke/Flint...I don't know who said that was a good idea?! :P

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Ok I have to say im disapointed in Hasbro's effort on the V2 Snake-Eyes after opening it. I have no real problem with them using the V1 figure sculpt, but what disapoints me in this figure is that they provided no place to hold Snake-Eyes sword. Yeah you can stick it in the straps on his back but would it have really been that difficult to give him an actual sword sheath? This has always been my favorite version of Snake-Eyes but I have to say I think I'll be sticking with my v1 Snake and just give him the sword and Timber for now.

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I'm still reeling from my major disappointment in the Cobra Officer/Trooper figure I opened up earlier. It was one of the ones I was in most anticipation of, and I'm so mad I could spit. @lol@

 

I'm still riding the knee-jerk reaction wave on it, and I might simmer down later, but so far, it's the only one I've opened and played around with, so there's hope yet, I'll find a gem in the bunch. The V1 Snake Eyes better be the BOMB is all I can say.

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Man, it's hard to remember what my first joe was. I say this because I've had so many different toys. It wasn't just joes, or He-Man, or super heros...it was all of 'em. Somehow the "main" toys came to be super heros as I had this extensive story running for years and years using various toys from all kinds of lines (in scale to each other or not; I'd find some role for them).

 

This is what built my interest in toys. I wanted what looked useable: what could be the most versatile? What had accessories that could be used with others? What just looked plain cool? What looked like it could fill a role I had been working out (or who seemed to make a new role just from sheer coolness factor)? That has built who I am today. I look for toys; not collections. I just really love toys for being toys. I buy them to play with, pose, set up, swap accessories, swap parts, etc. Mix and match was my number one favorite thing to do with toys, and it still is.

 

With that in mind, let me tell you that G.I. Joe is my all time favorite toy line. Was it my main line for my huge (almost childhood encompassing) storyline? No. I actually still regret not finishing that story (and am a bit ashamed to say that I still am filling roles with figures that pique my interest). However....the joes created their own world. There were HUGE numbers of them by the time I became aware of them fully. Tons. My friend had tons. There were even more weapons to swap around as well. My love for mix and match? Satisfied. G.I. Joe was always there when I had to take a break from the big story. Sure, each joe was his/her own character, but those suckers were the ultimate actors for me. Each time I pulled them out I had a new story to play. It was time consuming: first I pick out my faves, make characters, give them a little past, then deck them out in what might be their personal favorite weapons....oy! Sometimes I didn't even feel like playing out the story after all that! They were and are the ultimate toys; tons of accessories to choose from, wide range of character choices, small and portable, and poseable!

 

So what do I look for in the joes of today? I tell you, they've got big shoes to fill, for me. First of all there's accessories: a nice amount and if not, then have them make sense for the character. I choose figures based on the cool stuff they came with. The 90's started to kill my interest thanks to all the weapon trees. Take out the accessories and my interest wanes! Next comes the figure. St. Savage was okay...I bought two. Evil general in a red suit and a snow soldier. They couldn't hold their weapons very well and their legs barely moved. Next came Extreme, which moved less. When they took out the basic poseable figure I just moved right on along.

 

Accessories and poseability! It narrows down to that. I'm not talking crazy poseability; just something to fool around with. The old joes came through with that! Simplicity was the key, I think, even though they were certainly more complicated that most of the toys out there for awhile. However, I'm not stuck on how the joes moved in particular. The 25th joes are going for a new style; one that shows almost how they might have been built had they come out now (though I'd argue that Sigma 6 is closer to that with all the specific accessories in large number like the old days). In that way I'd say they are a success: The old ones were brittle and probably couldn't hold accessories well enough (unless you wanted to break the hands...which they did after awhile). Many say the new ones are brittle (though in a different way, but I don't agree) and they also have problems holding accessories, which is a pet peeve of mine. What kinda toy couldn't hold their accessories!? Well...my older joes. I really had to be careful not to force the weapons in there; some just had way too big of handles! Who was thinking that one through?

 

Eh...the point here is that I'm not seeing a whole lot of difference in the lines. Sculpting is standard for the two different times. Great sculpts for toys back then (each figure mostly had a different face...try comparing old Star Wars figures faces...it's hilarious), and great sculpts for toys right now. Both lines seem to be facing similar problems; I'm sure the 12" fans out there weren't terribly happy to see the tiny things come out. They were brittle and probably hard to play with. I find the new ones equally hard to play with....the weapons either drop right out of their hands (Storm Shadow) or their wrists are in some crazy formation that doesn't make sense (Cobra Commander, Trooper). Nonetheless they are still top of the line for figures nowadays (though, once again I would say Sigma 6 holds top of the line status in playability, durability, and style).

 

They have problems like their fathers in the past. They'll get better, and Hasbro has been incredible recently with improving their lines as they progress. I love what we have, problems included. They do pretty much what my old ones did with the same problems in different places. I don't know how to compare them. I don't want to. They are toys....and you know, I just love toys!

 

(Holy crap...I wrote a lot more than I though. And it's 2 in the morning. Good thing it's the weekend. Boy, a good writer would go back over that and check for coherence. Good thing this is a forum! I'ma get to bed....)

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I'm still reeling from my major disappointment in the Cobra Officer/Trooper figure I opened up earlier. It was one of the ones I was in most anticipation of, and I'm so mad I could spit. @lol@

 

I'm still riding the knee-jerk reaction wave on it, and I might simmer down later, but so far, it's the only one I've opened and played around with, so there's hope yet, I'll find a gem in the bunch. The V1 Snake Eyes better be the BOMB is all I can say.

 

the V1 Snake Eyes is pretty nice, though Storm Shadow V1 is the true gem of the whole bunch. Course I like the Cobra Trooper to so you may disagree with me.

 

Going back to this Snake-Eyes, What the hell is this last sentence on the filecard supposed to say"

 

"SNAKE EYES was tempered on the anvil of life until he was as dangerous as a razor-edged sword, flailing in the dark. The GI JOE team sheathed that sword and harnnessed its deadly energy but even they are wont forget that even within the saftey of its scabbard, the blade retains its cutting edge."

 

Now I looked at the orginal filecard from 85 and it says the exact same thing. I guess you gotta give Hasbro credit for staying true to the orginal here :)

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Ok I have to say im disapointed in Hasbro's effort on the V2 Snake-Eyes after opening it. I have no real problem with them using the V1 figure sculpt, but what disapoints me in this figure is that they provided no place to hold Snake-Eyes sword. Yeah you can stick it in the straps on his back but would it have really been that difficult to give him an actual sword sheath? This has always been my favorite version of Snake-Eyes but I have to say I think I'll be sticking with my v1 Snake and just give him the sword and Timber for now.

 

Y'know, now that you mention it, I used to hate how the original Snake-Eyes' sword was simply stuck on his backpack. Wasn't that kinda silly-looking? I would prefer that the new one had a sheath, but that's not gonna detract from the figure for me I don't think, but I'll have to wait and see when I get it in-hand. I would like to know though, JayC; how tight are his hip-joints? That's the only real real problem I have with the v1 Anniversary sculpt, the fact that his hip joints are loose. At least that's how mine is.

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Ok I have to say im disapointed in Hasbro's effort on the V2 Snake-Eyes after opening it. I have no real problem with them using the V1 figure sculpt, but what disapoints me in this figure is that they provided no place to hold Snake-Eyes sword. Yeah you can stick it in the straps on his back but would it have really been that difficult to give him an actual sword sheath? This has always been my favorite version of Snake-Eyes but I have to say I think I'll be sticking with my v1 Snake and just give him the sword and Timber for now.

 

Y'know, now that you mention it, I used to hate how the original Snake-Eyes' sword was simply stuck on his backpack. Wasn't that kinda silly-looking? I would prefer that the new one had a sheath, but that's not gonna detract from the figure for me I don't think, but I'll have to wait and see when I get it in-hand. I would like to know though, JayC; how tight are his hip-joints? That's the only real real problem I have with the v1 Anniversary sculpt, the fact that his hip joints are loose. At least that's how mine is.

 

Well the hip joints are fine on both of my V1 and V2, it may be you just got a bad one.

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I'm still reeling from my major disappointment in the Cobra Officer/Trooper figure I opened up earlier. It was one of the ones I was in most anticipation of, and I'm so mad I could spit. @lol@

 

I'm still riding the knee-jerk reaction wave on it, and I might simmer down later, but so far, it's the only one I've opened and played around with, so there's hope yet, I'll find a gem in the bunch. The V1 Snake Eyes better be the BOMB is all I can say.

 

Hey VH, in my opinion, the v1 Snake-Eyes IS awesome. You might be tempted to think it's too small and fragile when you first open it, but it's truly one of the more solid figures of the bunch. The only singular problem I have with it, like I mentioned, is the loose hip-joints, and even that doesn't really take away from the figure a whole lot. I just like my joints nice and tight. Even as a kid I'd get aggrevated over joints loosening up and couldn't stand it.

 

Roadblock is awesome, it's just that his hands are sculpted open too wide, and therefore he doesn't hold his gun very well in his right hand. But otherwise I think he's the second-best executed figure in the line. (Storm Shadow is first. Man...IMO that figure is pure perfection and makes the version 2 one take on a whole new light for me. But anyway...)

 

Destro is awesome as well. I love his sculpting, his size...everything about this figure clicks for me. For some reason he has some slight restriction in completely rotating his right arm backwards for some reason. But otherwise he's awesome.

 

Duke? He'd be perfect were it not for his danged elbow joints. If they would bend a full 90 degrees, he'd be perfect IMO. He's alot nicer in person than I was expecting...

 

Scarlett? Pretty-much perfect to me.

 

Cobra Soldier: Perfect, (Sorry VH!) although mine has the loose-hip syndrome. It's not that the individual hips are loose like the others, but you can hold up the figure, and his hips dangle back and forth loosely, but together like the underlying hip-joint is one piece instead of two separate joints. It's weird.

 

Baroness: Bow-legged. (lol) Otherwise this woould have been a nice figure.

 

Gung-Ho: I love this figure. Mine has slightly loose joints like some of the others, but I absolutely love this figure. Just wish his Marines tatoo was a darker color so you could see it better.

 

Sorry guys...I didn't mean for this to turn into a recap of my review. (lol)

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