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Old Joes vs New Joes....Serious Debate


imthebigdawg
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I don't consider Sigma 6 a part of the RAH continuity that the 25th figures are meant to be a part of. whether it actually is I suppose is another debate.

 

And it wouldn't be a long one at that. You would necessarily have to assert that the S6 figures are not GIJoe figures, and that the S6 toon was not a GIJoe toon.

 

not quite. saying they are of differing stories in no way equates to them not belonging to the same brand of toys. I am surprised you would jump to such a specious extreme to try and validate your position. @grumpy@

 

But they never were. If they were, you would have to point to a fixed time and place where the fixed character continuity exists.

 

What if you never read the comics, but watched the toon every day? The majority of the fans out there define the characters based on the toon. Thus, there is no firm "set in stone" continuity for Snake Eye's relationship to Storm Shadow. . .or to Scarlett for that matter.

 

Makes me wonder what the younger fans reaction to all this is. I imagine if they saw the 25th Snake Eyes file card, they'd get all confused having only S6 to go off of.

 

Thus, the character is set in stone only according to individual preference, which is not objective at all, only a mere majority opinion.

 

-PJ

 

I think the problem is that you are trying to narrow what are broad characteristics. no matter what the media format, SE's has some sort of relationship with SS. whether it is as a sword brother or rival, in every incarnation they have a relationship. it is that relationship that defines the character, not the specific ways that relationship is portrayed depending on the story that the differing storytellers choose to tell.

 

SE's is a ninja commando with a relation to SS

Duke the all american G.I. Joe field commander.

Scarlett the sexy intelligence agent.

 

every incarnation of these character adheres to these characteristics and never strays. these are set in stone. sure, the stories may differ, and small elements may be added, but they never contradict the basic elements of the characters that have been developed. just as the G.I. Joe brand has specific brand elements that the toys adhere to that reflects they are G.I. Joe toys, so to do the characters.

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I don't consider Sigma 6 a part of the RAH continuity that the 25th figures are meant to be a part of. whether it actually is I suppose is another debate.

 

And it wouldn't be a long one at that. You would necessarily have to assert that the S6 figures are not GIJoe figures, and that the S6 toon was not a GIJoe toon.

 

not quite. saying they are of differing stories in no way equates to them not belonging to the same brand of toys. I am surprised you would jump to such a specious extreme to try and validate your position. @grumpy@

 

But they never were. If they were, you would have to point to a fixed time and place where the fixed character continuity exists.

 

What if you never read the comics, but watched the toon every day? The majority of the fans out there define the characters based on the toon. Thus, there is no firm "set in stone" continuity for Snake Eye's relationship to Storm Shadow. . .or to Scarlett for that matter.

 

Makes me wonder what the younger fans reaction to all this is. I imagine if they saw the 25th Snake Eyes file card, they'd get all confused having only S6 to go off of.

 

Thus, the character is set in stone only according to individual preference, which is not objective at all, only a mere majority opinion.

 

-PJ

 

I think the problem is that you are trying to narrow what are broad characteristics. no matter what the media format, SE's has some sort of relationship with SS. whether it is as a sword brother or rival, in every incarnation they have a relationship. it is that relationship that defines the character, not the specific ways that relationship is portrayed depending on the story that the differing storytellers choose to tell.

 

SE's is a ninja commando with a relation to SS

Duke the all american G.I. Joe field commander.

Scarlett the sexy intelligence agent.

 

every incarnation of these character adheres to these characteristics and never strays. these are set in stone. sure, the stories may differ, and small elements may be added, but they never contradict the basic elements of the characters that have been developed. just as the G.I. Joe brand has specific brand elements that the toys adhere to that reflects they are G.I. Joe toys, so to do the characters.

 

 

I have to agree with gscbr, GI Joe has stayed fairly faithful to the core personalities and descriptions of the major players.

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Here's some pics of the vintage vs. new GI Joe figures from my collection (I know they are large pics, but I felt it was appropriate to see the details):

 

ARAH_25th_GI_Joe_Pic_1A.jpg

 

ARAH_25th_GI_Joe_Pic_2.jpg

 

ARAH_25th_GI_Joe_Pic_3A.jpg

 

I like the paint apps and detailed sculpting of the new figures; however, I found them very difficult to pose and hold their weapons securely. The plastic used feels very cheap when compared to the vintage figures as well. The GI Joe stands need to be redesigned as the pegs need to be centered because the holes are no longer located on figures' heels.

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Wanting to reply to some of these topics becomes a bit nerve-racking after pages of a select few going back with intense scholar type debating on these nifty little figures. Of course, with all the quotations and overly long winded and drawn out posts it makes it easier for me to skim and most times skip. So I thank you for that. @smilepunch@

 

As for the original topic - I don't think it needs to be a vs type situation. Appreciate them both for what they are. This same type of intellectual pissing contest litters the Marvel forum when trying to compare Hasbro to Toy Biz. Why can't I just enjoy both? No good reason and thus I do. I didn't get into full stride with the Joes till 84 or 85 when I was 4 or 5 (respectively), but once I did it was a long road and hundreds of figures later. I read the comic as well watched and enjoyed the cartoon (even the DIC stuff).

 

All I truly know is when I popped open my 5 single packs this previous Monday I felt like I was a kid again. The same way I get when I go see cartoons and movies and read comics - they make me feel young and care free and remove myself from the stress and hassle of real life with the terrorist organization known as Bills and Job. There are many lemons in the ARAH line for the 12+ years it ran as well as the stuff that has been pumped out since 2002 and the revival of the 3-3/4" figure, but neither needs to be on top or a lesser toy at least in my book.

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You know. Sometimes it has nothing to do with which figure is better or worse. Sometimes its just about what I'm already collecting.

 

I mean I've said this before back when JvC came out. But the bottom line is this. I started buying vintage joes. Then, I was thrilled to get the RAHC repaints.. They had less quality plastic and some issues, but they were repaints of the vintage joes I bought. Same scale, same figs........ So they fit easily into my collection. Now years down the road, I have invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars into collecting vintage Joes. Why Start buying something else???? Thats the point im trying to make. Just because they are the same characters as the joes i've been buying they are not the same toys. They dont fit in my collection. They dont enhance my existing collection in any way. They are an entirely NEW collection. For someone looking for something new or just collecting "GI JOE in general" thats great. They look pretty slick (except for the diapers). But here for me is the bottom line. I collect 3 3/4 inch joes. Not 12 inch, Not 8 inch, Not 2 inch. And Now I guess I have to specify I collect 3 3/4 RAH style joes. I dont plan on starting a new collection of anything any time soon.

 

I'll buy one or two for the fun of checking them out. But to me, starting buying these, is just like suddenly deciding to buy Marvel figures when I've been collecting Joes for 9 years. Its just completely different and incompatible with my existing collection so whats the point? There are plenty of vintage and Convention/Master Collector/ Foreign pieces that fit directly into my exisiting collection to keep me busy for life.

 

Phanstar

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Yes, I remeber my first joe it was short-fuse. I was at magic-mart when I saw the first wave. I do remeber how I had to debate myself in to getting Breaker or Short-fuse. Short-fuse won over because breaker did not have a gun. But I do remeber searching endless for Rock-n-Roll. Today I am not reallly different. I am hitting stores looking for the news Joes. The employees of these retails stores look me like I am crazy. I am a 36 year-old man, well dressed, full beard with a list of UPC codes.

I have finally found my first 3 Hooded Cobra Commander, Flint and a Cobra Officer. I came home shut my bedroom door. My wife and kid think I have lost my dang marbles. I opened them and for once I went back in time. I posed these figures. put the guns in their hands and said "Cool!!" They are not the same figures I had as a kid, but they are a new generation of figures.

I love these Joes like I loved the old Joes. I dont even have any Joes left from when I was a kid. But the thing I love the most is the thrill fo the hunt. There is nothing like turning the corner of the toy aisle and seeing these little guys on the shelf.

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Wanting to reply to some of these topics becomes a bit nerve-racking after pages of a select few going back with intense scholar type debating on these nifty little figures. Of course, with all the quotations and overly long winded and drawn out posts it makes it easier for me to skim and most times skip. So I thank you for that. @smilepunch@

 

 

:rolleyes: cheeky!

 

 

As for the original topic - I don't think it needs to be a vs type situation. Appreciate them both for what they are. This same type of intellectual pissing contest litters the Marvel forum when trying to compare Hasbro to Toy Biz. Why can't I just enjoy both? No good reason and thus I do.

 

 

Who indicated you couldn't "enjoy both"? If that's your true feelings on it, then that would have been an easy opinion to add to the topic, without all the other unnecessary smartass critiques on such "versus" type discussions as a whole and the members who participate in them.

 

This isn't Hasbro against Marvel, or Star Wars against Transformers, it's a discussion over which type of G.I.Joe (all made by Hasbro) do we each individually like better? Real simple, but made more serious and even heated, than it needed to be. Some of us might have a preference on the question posed, so I'd ask you the same, why can't we have an opinion on that? If somebody likes them BOTH, for what they are....then that's their opinion, and that's absolutely fine and dandy and a good enough response that doesn't p!ss on somebody else's response and opinion in the process.

 

 

 

 

All I truly know is when I popped open my 5 single packs this previous Monday I felt like I was a kid again. The same way I get when I go see cartoons and movies and read comics - they make me feel young and care free and remove myself from the stress and hassle of real life with the terrorist organization known as Bills and Job. There are many lemons in the ARAH line for the 12+ years it ran as well as the stuff that has been pumped out since 2002 and the revival of the 3-3/4" figure, but neither needs to be on top or a lesser toy at least in my book.

 

See there....that was all you needed to add, and it was a great, well thought out, humorous response. ;)

 

You like Joes that look like the old ARAH Joes, the ones you had as a kid. A brand new looking Flint action figure wouldn't be as appealing to you, as a brand new action figure, that LOOKS almost exactly like the old one you had as a kid, but made differently? That's the nostalgia factor kicking in, and it's common with most fans of the mythos over and above just the toys.

 

The same scenario exists for me as well, as the new 12" G.I.Joes didn't catch my interest all that much and I pretty much ignored them while collecting the 3 3/4" line. This month, Walmart will have the 12" Adventure Team G.I.Joes, with kung fu grip and life-like hair and beards on them. I will get them ALL!! Why? Because they're exactly like the ones I had as a kid. Doesn't mean the new 12" styled Joes are crap, but the old LOOKING ones, strike that nostalgic chord in me and takes me BACK. :)

 

I have no such "chord" for the ARAH line, I just liked the toys basically and thought the stories and characters were awesome and cool as hell, but I never had the "kid" experience with them, just an appreciative young adult mentality towards them.

 

With that...I simply, and not argumentively, THINK the old Joes are still better made than the new Joes. Appearance-wise..the new Joes do look better in some cases, but it's a cheaper version of the old ones, but with more detail to make up for it. That's an honest answer to the question the author of the topic presented. Some people just take it all too serious and even WORSE...personally? <_<

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I would have to say what made G.I.Joe: A Real American Hero a great line was how detailed everything was and how well it all worked together. Everything was so well planned out.

 

You had the file-cards and the the backs of the packaging which showed all of the figures available that year, which is no longer possible due to toy marketing changes.

 

The vehicles had the blueprints. The blueprints were very detailed and more than just instructions for the toys; the blueprints helped create the fantasy that you were playing with real U.S. military equipment, or something from Cobra Command.

 

The toys were engineered to be part of the play pattern from the beginning. That is why the VAMPS, MOBATs and HALs are still around today. They are just durable. Plus, they early vehicles all work in the HQ and the later with the MCC. I love how well everything works with the USS Flagg.

 

I know some may quibble with this - While some accessories were duplicated or re-used from time to time, until 1993 most figures had original, unique equipment. Crankcase and Frostbite, vehicle drivers in 1985, had unique rifles and Crankcase, a unique helmet. It seemed for a while from 1983-1992 that every figure had a unique backpack, helmet, rifle or other accessory. After the 1982/1983 years, figures seldom had recycled parts and each figure had many unique accessories. Some figures I would purchase just because their equipment, dog, bird, or whatever was so cool.

 

Additionally, the figures were easy to repair and customize and they all held their accessories very well. I could swap out most back-packs, many of the helmets and all of the guns or rifles to whomever I wanted.

 

Plus, the figures are so darn durable. They make great toys. They are better toys than anything out there. They fit in the vehicles. They stand and pose well. They can go in the bath tub, the swimming pool, hang-glide, or parachute.

 

I think the new 25th stuff looks great as statues or tributes to the old stuff, but I am curious to how they work as toys. For the record, I only broke one thumb in my life and that was a 1986 Viper whose thumb was weird in the package. I prefer the old stuff because of how well the play pattern for the line was thought out.

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As the creator of this topic, I am shocked - in a good way - by all of the time and effort people put into their answers. However, so many have taken a "this is better than that" stance and that was never the intention...As a fan that LOVES the new sculpts, i was curious why so many have failed to embrace them. I see the New Scuplts as being a much stronger representation of the card art. Also, the details are just amazing.. I still love ARAH because of the memories the conjure, but would never buy a new one because of the 25th Anniversary figures. Nevertheless, I think every few pages people need a "topic clarification" post to keep them on track.

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As the creator of this topic, I am shocked - in a good way - by all of the time and effort people put into their answers. However, so many have taken a "this is better than that" stance and that was never the intention.

 

 

I don't know if there's is any way to get around that? If we like the "old Joes" better than the "new Joes", then the answer is we like one "BETTER" than the other. The reasons WHY are what falls into the area of "debate".

 

..As a fan that LOVES the new sculpts, i was curious why so many have failed to embrace them. I see the New Scuplts as being a much stronger representation of the card art. Also, the details are just amazing.

 

I don't see any "stronger" a representation of these newer figures to the card art, than the older ones were? I don't think the new Duke, Flint, Scarlett, Gung Ho and the rest LOOK any more like the card art than the older ones did, in fact, I think they look worse in some cases and future figure coming out won't match the original figures at all. No character in their expressions and faces, more mannequin than toy. More generically bland than individually characterized with personailty and emotion.

 

 

I still love ARAH because of the memories the conjure

 

Some of us still love the old toys (they're ALL ARAH btw) because they're really GREAT toys. Action figures that are HONESTLY made for REAL kids, to be PLAYED with, will always beat out an action figure made for geeky adults to be collected and displayed.

 

Hasbro really put a lot of detail and information into those old Joes back in the 80's, and gave them two tons of fun to be had with not only the toys themselves, but the adventure behind the story of each character, their individual expertise, and the vehicles and weaponry they had at their disposal, all created in the interest of PLAY. Now it's just for appearance sake, nostalgia, trying to satisfy one geeks mental IDEAL interpretation of a character over another geeks, and an attempt to add more articulation features to them, to call them "better" action figure" when half of them aren't all that necessary or sometimes hurt the aesthetics of the figure overall.

 

The old ones were "better" toys imo...the new ones LOOK really good, but are cheap and not able to sit in a vehicle if somebody actually wanted to play with them, not as well as the older better ones at least, so that's where the "better than" debate rears it's ugly head in the discussion. Can't be avoided. ^_^

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As the creator of this topic, I am shocked - in a good way - by all of the time and effort people put into their answers. However, so many have taken a "this is better than that" stance and that was never the intention.

 

 

I don't know if there's is any way to get around that? If we like the "old Joes" better than the "new Joes", then the answer is we like one "BETTER" than the other. The reasons WHY are what falls into the area of "debate".

 

I AGREE WITH THIS

 

..As a fan that LOVES the new sculpts, i was curious why so many have failed to embrace them. I see the New Scuplts as being a much stronger representation of the card art. Also, the details are just amazing.

 

I don't see any "stronger" a representation of these newer figures to the card art, than the older ones were? I don't think the new Duke, Flint, Scarlett, Gung Ho and the rest LOOK any more like the card art than the older ones did, in fact, I think they look worse in some cases and future figure coming out won't match the original figures at all. No character in their expressions and faces, more mannequin than toy. More generically bland than individually characterized with personailty and emotion.

 

I THINK THE NEW ONES LOOK WAY BETTER, THE FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND ALL. IF YOU LIKE THE OLD ONES CAUSE OF NOSTALGIA THAT IS FINE, BUT I CAN'T HONESTLY SEE HOW YOU COULD SAY THEY ARE BETTER, BY LOOKS ALONE.

 

I still love ARAH because of the memories the conjure

 

Some of us still love the old toys (they're ALL ARAH btw) because they're really GREAT toys. Action figures that are HONESTLY made for REAL kids, to be PLAYED with, will always beat out an action figure made for geeky adults to be collected and displayed.

 

Hasbro really put a lot of detail and information into those old Joes back in the 80's, and gave them two tons of fun to be had with not only the toys themselves, but the adventure behind the story of each character, their individual expertise, and the vehicles and weaponry they had at their disposal, all created in the interest of PLAY. Now it's just for appearance sake, nostalgia, trying to satisfy one geeks mental IDEAL interpretation of a character over another geeks, and an attempt to add more articulation features to them, to call them "better" action figure" when half of them aren't all that necessary or sometimes hurt the aesthetics of the figure overall.

 

The old ones were "better" toys imo...the new ones LOOK really good, but are cheap and not able to sit in a vehicle if somebody actually wanted to play with them, not as well as the older better ones at least, so that's where the "better than" debate rears it's ugly head in the discussion. Can't be avoided. ^_^

 

IF THE PLASTIC IS CHEAP CAUSING THEM TO BREAK AND NOT BEING ABLE TO SIT N VEHICLES AND BE PLAYED WITH THAN THAT IS TOTALLY VALID. I WOULD BE PISSED IF THESE TURNED OUT NOT TO BE VERY DURABLE.

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I dont see/feel the cheapness of the figures...I realize they feel different, but does that mean they are "cheap"? Not too sure about that.....Looks of the action figure are most important aspect for me. I am a McFarlane nut (Sports/Military) and while I realize they are 100% static, I think they ruined me for any figure that is not sculpted with extreme detail. I overlook some obvious flaws because these figures are just so damn nice to look at.......Also, while this has not been mentioned before, I like that the new figures seem to have a "flat" paint application as compare to the "gloss" application used for the older figures. People may chew my head for saying that, but i do notice a shine to the older figures that is not noticeable in the new figures.....anyway, love the fact that I have some people to "geek" out with. The only other person I discuss this with is a friend who is in the Secret Service - btw, one of the coolest guys I know. i wouldn't dare mention this at work or in the hockey locker room. Now, got to get back in the closet.

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I don't see any "stronger" a representation of these newer figures to the card art, than the older ones were? I don't think the new Duke, Flint, Scarlett, Gung Ho and the rest LOOK any more like the card art than the older ones did, in fact, I think they look worse in some cases and future figure coming out won't match the original figures at all. No character in their expressions and faces, more mannequin than toy. More generically bland than individually characterized with personailty and emotion.

 

I THINK THE NEW ONES LOOK WAY BETTER, THE FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND ALL. IF YOU LIKE THE OLD ONES CAUSE OF NOSTALGIA THAT IS FINE, BUT I CAN'T HONESTLY SEE HOW YOU COULD SAY THEY ARE BETTER, BY LOOKS ALONE.

 

No, the older ones had some stinkers as well. They had a lot more years to make them in to, but over all those years, they had some great toys put out. I've tried to explain myself, as to why I wouldn't have any nostalgic notions to favor the old over the new, but it doesn't seem to matter. Nostalgia seems to be the handy excusr toss around for liking either the old ones, or the new ones? @lol@

 

This new design is not the perfect design imo. It has a lot of flaws and annoying features about it, articulation limits being the major one, and aesthetic problems another. If Hasbro had used the design features they were using during the VvV line, and created this anniversary inspired REDO of the ARAH characters like this, I think everyone would have been just as excited and buzzing about them, as they are now. It's my feeling, that it's the retro look that's doing this and not the actual style, look or design of the figures. Flint is Flint, and he is at his bEST when he looks like he did in his version one appearance, so it isn't the new Flint that sucks, becuase he looks pretty much just like that! It's the design of the figure that isn't as good as the older ones were. That's my opinion anyway.

 

IF THE PLASTIC IS CHEAP CAUSING THEM TO BREAK AND NOT BEING ABLE TO SIT N VEHICLES AND BE PLAYED WITH THAN THAT IS TOTALLY VALID. I WOULD BE PISSED IF THESE TURNED OUT NOT TO BE VERY DURABLE.

 

They're durable enough to stay fresh in the box, and durable enough to stay posed on a shelf on display, but that's really all these were made for and intended to do. They wouldn't hold up to the rigors of play and the test of time, like most the older ones did.

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Looks of the action figure are most important aspect for me. I am a McFarlane nut (Sports/Military) and while I realize they are 100% static, I think they ruined me for any figure that is not sculpted with extreme detail.

 

I almost brought up those Mcfarlane figures, as being a root cause of all this ultra real, ultra detailed crap they're striving for these days. My stepson collected those things, and I got into them as well, helping him to keep up with it, but they just got to be too much and too crazy with it.

 

I don't want G.I.Joe to be mini versions of Mcfarlanes particular craft. Again, perfect example here...Mcfarlane "toys" were never made for kids. They were truly created for an older (mid teens and older) group of fans, that read the comics. These were not to be played with. My stepson played with G.I.Joe as a kid....COLLECTED Spawn as a teenager, and now is just pretty much into Everquest or some sh@# like that, but he still thinks my huge collection of the G.I.Joe toys he played with as a kid is still cool.

 

Everybody loves the characters of G.I.Joe, but they want Hasbro to make them like some other toyline out there, to the point were it ain't really G.I.Joe anymore, it's Marvel Microman Mcfarlane Joes. @lol@

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The problem, or issue at hand was that when G.I.Joe was in Hey-Day, 1983-1991, it was a complete play system. They were designed to sell vehicles and playsets and be part of a total play pattern.

 

The market place has changed. McFarlane and other action figures lines strive to be collectible and toys. Kids gravitate toward video games more and more as well as the planned lives of suburban and urban middle or upper-middle class kids where there lives are planned to the minute with sports, music, art and the like. Most boys leave toys probably by age 11 or 12 where before it may have lasted throughout junior high.

 

Action figures or toys are not sold by Hasbro to us. They are sold by Hasbro to retailers and the retailers in turn sell them to us. The retailers' buyers are who purchase the toys sold by Hasbro. The retailers are who select what will guy into their aisles. With Hasbro, no retailer support means the toys will probably never see the light of day because they do big business and aren't interest in niche sales. The buyer for a big retailer like Toys R Us will probably compare all of the proposed action figure lines to what he or she already has on the shelves. Star Wars and whatever McFarlane produces are realistic or have multiple points or articulation. Hasbro hears the screams for better articulated figures from Star Wars fan sites and I bet retailers are aware of that too. If I am a retailer, I want something that sells fast and looks as good if not better than what I have already on the shelves. I also want something with brand recognition.

 

Hence, we end up with Star Wars quality figures with Star Wars quality plastic that meets 21st century safety requirements in a slightly larger size and will look cool on the shelf, have a certain nostalgia, brand recognition factor.

 

These 25th Anniversary Joes are our Alternators line. It will be short lived. When or if the new film becomes a reality, the existing lines will be halted so that Hasbro can focus on a new "movie" line in a difference scale than has existed previously with all new looks. Think what Hasbro did with the Spiderman 3 scale of figures or what happened the the popular Transformers Classics line or Alternators line.

 

We will never have the old ARAH line because Hasbro will want a new Joe for a new generation. Everything evolves and the market place has changed faster than we have.

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I don't see any "stronger" a representation of these newer figures to the card art, than the older ones were? I don't think the new Duke, Flint, Scarlett, Gung Ho and the rest LOOK any more like the card art than the older ones did, in fact, I think they look worse in some cases and future figure coming out won't match the original figures at all. No character in their expressions and faces, more mannequin than toy. More generically bland than individually characterized with personailty and emotion.

 

I THINK THE NEW ONES LOOK WAY BETTER, THE FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND ALL. IF YOU LIKE THE OLD ONES CAUSE OF NOSTALGIA THAT IS FINE, BUT I CAN'T HONESTLY SEE HOW YOU COULD SAY THEY ARE BETTER, BY LOOKS ALONE.

 

No, the older ones had some stinkers as well. They had a lot more years to make them in to, but over all those years, they had some great toys put out. I've tried to explain myself, as to why I wouldn't have any nostalgic notions to favor the old over the new, but it doesn't seem to matter. Nostalgia seems to be the handy excusr toss around for liking either the old ones, or the new ones? @lol@

 

This new design is not the perfect design imo. It has a lot of flaws and annoying features about it, articulation limits being the major one, and aesthetic problems another. If Hasbro had used the design features they were using during the VvV line, and created this anniversary inspired REDO of the ARAH characters like this, I think everyone would have been just as excited and buzzing about them, as they are now. It's my feeling, that it's the retro look that's doing this and not the actual style, look or design of the figures. Flint is Flint, and he is at his bEST when he looks like he did in his version one appearance, so it isn't the new Flint that sucks, becuase he looks pretty much just like that! It's the design of the figure that isn't as good as the older ones were. That's my opinion anyway.

 

IF THE PLASTIC IS CHEAP CAUSING THEM TO BREAK AND NOT BEING ABLE TO SIT N VEHICLES AND BE PLAYED WITH THAN THAT IS TOTALLY VALID. I WOULD BE PISSED IF THESE TURNED OUT NOT TO BE VERY DURABLE.

 

They're durable enough to stay fresh in the box, and durable enough to stay posed on a shelf on display, but that's really all these were made for and intended to do. They wouldn't hold up to the rigors of play and the test of time, like most the older ones did.

 

 

Interesting points. I do agree with you and I am one of these people that are excited about hasbro picking the best versions of the iconic characters and making them. I also like the no 0-rings though, and the better proportion that some of the characters have as well as the moveable chest. I like the new ones better but can see your point about the fact that there might be a better way to make them.

 

That is a shame that these figures aren't durable as the old ones, because playing is what it should be about. I would be pissed if they all broke while I played with them. Though I have a lot of the comic pack figures and at least one of the orings broke and when I had ARAH vintage the crotches would break and that would bother me.

 

Would you agree that this would be hasbros best effort since ARAH 82-86?

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I don't see any "stronger" a representation of these newer figures to the card art, than the older ones were? I don't think the new Duke, Flint, Scarlett, Gung Ho and the rest LOOK any more like the card art than the older ones did, in fact, I think they look worse in some cases and future figure coming out won't match the original figures at all. No character in their expressions and faces, more mannequin than toy. More generically bland than individually characterized with personailty and emotion.

 

I THINK THE NEW ONES LOOK WAY BETTER, THE FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND ALL. IF YOU LIKE THE OLD ONES CAUSE OF NOSTALGIA THAT IS FINE, BUT I CAN'T HONESTLY SEE HOW YOU COULD SAY THEY ARE BETTER, BY LOOKS ALONE.

 

No, the older ones had some stinkers as well. They had a lot more years to make them in to, but over all those years, they had some great toys put out. I've tried to explain myself, as to why I wouldn't have any nostalgic notions to favor the old over the new, but it doesn't seem to matter. Nostalgia seems to be the handy excusr toss around for liking either the old ones, or the new ones? @lol@

 

This new design is not the perfect design imo. It has a lot of flaws and annoying features about it, articulation limits being the major one, and aesthetic problems another. If Hasbro had used the design features they were using during the VvV line, and created this anniversary inspired REDO of the ARAH characters like this, I think everyone would have been just as excited and buzzing about them, as they are now. It's my feeling, that it's the retro look that's doing this and not the actual style, look or design of the figures. Flint is Flint, and he is at his bEST when he looks like he did in his version one appearance, so it isn't the new Flint that sucks, becuase he looks pretty much just like that! It's the design of the figure that isn't as good as the older ones were. That's my opinion anyway.

 

IF THE PLASTIC IS CHEAP CAUSING THEM TO BREAK AND NOT BEING ABLE TO SIT N VEHICLES AND BE PLAYED WITH THAN THAT IS TOTALLY VALID. I WOULD BE PISSED IF THESE TURNED OUT NOT TO BE VERY DURABLE.

 

They're durable enough to stay fresh in the box, and durable enough to stay posed on a shelf on display, but that's really all these were made for and intended to do. They wouldn't hold up to the rigors of play and the test of time, like most the older ones did.

 

 

Interesting points. I do agree with you and I am one of these people that are excited about hasbro picking the best versions of the iconic characters and making them. I also like the no 0-rings though, and the better proportion that some of the characters have as well as the moveable chest. I like the new ones better but can see your point about the fact that there might be a better way to make them.

 

That is a shame that these figures aren't durable as the old ones, because playing is what it should be about. I would be pissed if they all broke while I played with them. Though I have a lot of the comic pack figures and at least one of the orings broke and when I had ARAH vintage the crotches would break and that would bother me.

 

Would you agree that this would be hasbros best effort since ARAH 82-86?

 

 

I would agree that this was their best effort to date...those suits really seem to be trying... I look no further than PDD. A figure that people went nuts trying to find due to a mistake or joke during past production. IMO, it shows that HASBRO is at least trying to understand the collectors, but still reach out to a new audience.

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That is a shame that these figures aren't durable as the old ones, because playing is what it should be about. I would be pissed if they all broke while I played with them.

 

Let me just add that my opinion on the "durability" of these new ones, as compared to the old ones, is only conjecture on my part, and obviously there's nothing to substantiate that assertion this soon in their lifespan. ;)

 

 

Would you agree that this would be hasbros best effort since ARAH 82-86?

 

What about '87-'94? @hmmm@

 

I liked a lot of the stuff that came out in that 8 year span. I disliked a lot of it as well, but at least it was during a period where hasbro was still trying to expand on the ARAH mythos and bring new characters to life within the toyline...good guys and bad guys and there were some real Jim Dandy's that came out then.

 

The crux of all that is known as (and maintained as proper)....ARAH, seems to have been developed mostly in those years between '82-'86? After that, it's almost discarded or banished altogether. I don't fall into that thinking, and really liked those years as a constant supplement to my ever GROWING army of miniature G.I.Joe toys. Many of the molds created later, were superior in detail, to those from '82-'86, and only the color schemes crapped them out. They also tried to get cute with extra added features and new designs (like they're still trying to do now <_<) like action features, karate chop spring action or some crap that ruined the rest of the figure, just so their arms could flip back and forth or their waists could spin hard to the right or something. JUNK!

 

The over emphasis on Ninja's (blame turtle mania) and monsters & Dinosaurs (blame ALIENS & Jurassic Park) really took it's toll on the line in the last dying years. Then it got to where we were already seeing the core cast of characters reused in each wave, but in different molds for the particular waves theme. The shark was almost jumped at that point, all we needed was Flint & Lady Jaye to have a baby! @loll@

 

Now....throw in the relaunch years, and you have some equally grand figures and turds as well. The T-crotch fiasco, and the return of silly "action attack" features, more attempts at adding a swivel here and a swivel there, here a joint, there a joint, everywhere a joint joint! #yuk@#

 

Hasbro was trying to take into consideration, all the gripes about the earlier line of toys, and trying to correct the proportional problems, as the collectors seen it (of which i don't always agree) and heads started shrinking and going too far in the opposite direction till the "pea-head syndrome" arose from the ashes. Constant character rehashes ruined a lot of the sets as well, as I'm pretty well stocked up on Stalkers, Dukes and Cobra Commanders now, not to mention Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow.

 

They hit a peak with some of the injection molding process but it was used on unpopular characters (not to me, I LOVE new characters) and it faded away until the hiatus season came around, only to give rise to Sigma Six!

 

Had Hasbro stayed with the style, design and MATERIAL they were just getting into, with the Major Barrage figure and merely added the articulation feature at the ankle....I would have been delighted and thrilled. I'd probably even accept the hinged knees as they DO give the figures a nice extra squatting stance. If the 25th line was made like this, and were made to look like the characters did in the golden years (like they are doing with them now) I think that would have been prime material.

 

I don't think the new figures are anymore detailed than what the maj. Barrage figure was. They're definitely more detailed than the figures they're been replicated off of, but then again, most the details (like belts and straps) are not even molded into the character now, they're a totally seperate piece, and have become an "accessory" (like a helmet, backpack or weapon) and not a "design". So when we say "more detailed" are we talking about wrinkles and folds in the uniform? A working holster is more like a backpack that's been permanently glued to the figure, so it's not really an added detail, just an added accessory. Remove all that stuff and you have a pretty basic and plain mold.

 

I don't like the softer material.

 

I don't like the painted flesh.

 

The head and neck connections seem different than even the type used for Maj. Barrage?

 

I don't like the missing O-Ring design. That swivel-tits design is not better imo.

 

I don't like the mid forearm joint.

 

The hands are all horrible molds. They look like they've all been partially melted and disfigured?

 

The crotchs hinder their ability to sit.

 

Their elbow construction hinders their ability to get a 90 degree bend.

 

Some of the weapons are flimsy and cheap, not to mention few in numbers of and no backpacks.

 

It's just the old characters again, as they first appeared in the toy stores 25 years ago, in a new fangled design, packed in all the original package art and design, and striking all the nostalgic glory of those golden days of ARAH.

 

For that alone.....Hasbro gets my applause for the "effort"! They do look like the ones I bought all those years ago, and that's pretty cool, but the figures themselves are not the best that Hasbro has come up with, just the most appealing visually, because of the focus on the matching details of the originals.

 

Would the buzz be as strong on these, if this new design was being used on an all NEW line up of ARAH characters, in NEW uniforms and attire? Would this new designed have saved the waves of Spy Troops and VvV? I bet not. Is it the design of the toy or the looks of the character (the toy represents) that is causing all the buzz?

 

It's the nostalgia behind these and the card art imo. Collectors weren't sitting on their wallets just waiting for this particular DESIGN to come around, they were waiting for this particular LOOK and tribute to all that WAS, and looking like it did back THEN, to come around.

 

They're just a tad better in quality than the MLS figures, but I still think the similarities are obvious in what Hasbro was trying to do here.

 

 

I would agree that this was their best effort to date...those suits really seem to be trying... I look no further than PDD. A figure that people went nuts trying to find due to a mistake or joke during past production. IMO, it shows that HASBRO is at least trying to understand the collectors, but still reach out to a new audience.

 

I doubt Hasbro will ever fully please the collectors (just read the sites and forums they post on ;)) but I think they are trying. Not all has been bad, but I think they could still do better. I don't know what "new audience" these 25th anniversary figures are going to "reach out" to, and I tend to think it was totally for the collectors with any support here and there from the "kids" and extra bonus. Sort of like the opposite of how it's been before, with the focus on the new audience and collector support the bonus. ^_^

 

I just don't like the idea that the G.I.Joe faithfuls (over the years) didn't measure up enough in Hasbro's estimations, and now it's all about bringing in a NEW audience and not just the kids, but a new audience of "collectors" to supplement the profit more. Make fans of OTHER toylines take notice to the fact that Joes are being designed more like the action figures THEY like now. Joes more like Marvel Legends or MLS. Joes like Star Wars or McFarlane figures, Joes like everything but good ol' Joes anymore.

 

Hell, if they made the Star Wars figures like the Joe figures, I'd probably collect them as well, and incorporate them into the Joe world in my head, just like I did with the Street Fighter & Mortal Kombat series. If McFarlane wanted to mimic the Joe line and make a 3 3/4" line of his SPAWN characters, they'd find a place in my collection as well and become Joe fodder and extra's. I'd rather they work on matching Joes, than Joes trying to match them. What Hasbro has told me, is that G.I.Joe ain't good enough anymore? Somebody else is doing better, let's follow that path! <_<

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I have to agree almost 100% with Viper Hunter on the "flaws" of the 25th Ann. figures.

 

Just got my two sets yesterday, and he's spot on with the comments on the elbows, hips, mid-forearm joint etc...

 

These are good figures in a few respects and so-so figures in others.

I see some of them now as being lovingly babied by the design team, and some that seem to have been "rushed" through a bit. Some of the flaws make them infuriating--Roadblocks diffculty holding his gun.

Took a couple hours of fiddling and fussing with him to find the sweet spot.

 

I'd advise everyone to look out for Gung-ho's shoulders. My sample as BOTH upper arms on the opposite arm socket. The start out backwards. I can rotate them around so the bicep is forward, but then the shoulder muscle is clearly on "wrong". Actually the cut-in should be deeper on the inside, mine is now deeper on the outside. It looks ok, but it still wrong, and will be a pain to fix.

Check them carefully in package-this looks like a very easy mistake to make.

 

I see some real room for improvement with this stuff. The first bacth just rates an "okay" from me

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I could see how people could be pissed that these figures don't match their old collections. I also agree that the durability and posing ability seems to be lacking. I do like the lack of orings though. It will be interesting to see if hasbro will correct some of the problems mentioned on the board.

 

I can't blame hasbro for trying to update the look of joes in order to mimick other popular lines though, as viper hunter aluded to. maybe joes aren't good enough anymore, and hasbro had to take one last kick at the can to see if they could create excitement again.

 

The nostalgia, packaging, version 1's of all the best characters are creating this as many people mentioned. I also, think the figures to me look the most realistic of any thus far. I was drawn to the comic packs for all the above factors but, to me these kill them. I might have to sell all mine.

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The new collectors that I am talking about are, at least in my case, the children of the now grown men who played with GI Joe as a kid. I am 32 and my son is three. He ia an avid Thomas the Train fan and i hope it moves onto GI JOE. Why did I mention this? Because I see a connection. Thomas is nothing more than trains carved out of wood. they do not make sounds or flash lights. All of that must come from my child. I watch my son play for large blocks of time with these trains. he makes sounds and needs to move the trains himself. Much like the GI JOE line that i playted with. Also, Thomas is very old franchise that thrives in todays market, which gives me hope for the Joe line...... Also, as a former teacher, I saw the lack of imagination in many young adults. Looking back, I would not be surprised if these kids toys did everything for the child. They made sounds, shot weapons, moved from remote control, etc. The toy was made to help the child NOT think. I hope this does not happen to my son. I plan on introducing him to GI JOE as the next major toy in his young life. I feel a simple toy, like GI JOE, can fuel a young mind. I wonder if other fathers my age plan on doing the same. I have purchased three of everything. One set to display opened, I to store iMOC, and one for my son. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to peak in on my son as he is setting up his Joes. Lets just hope that HASBRO sticks to it guns and makes simple toys. Package the figures, vehicles, and playsets and I/my son will provide the sounds, imagination, and action.

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The new collectors that I am talking about are, at least in my case, the children of the now grown men who played with GI Joe as a kid. I am 32 and my son is three. He ia an avid Thomas the Train fan and i hope it moves onto GI JOE. Why did I mention this? Because I see a connection. Thomas is nothing more than trains carved out of wood. they do not make sounds or flash lights. All of that must come from my child. I watch my son play for large blocks of time with these trains. he makes sounds and needs to move the trains himself. Much like the GI JOE line that i playted with. Also, Thomas is very old franchise that thrives in todays market, which gives me hope for the Joe line...... Also, as a former teacher, I saw the lack of imagination in many young adults. Looking back, I would not be surprised if these kids toys did everything for the child. They made sounds, shot weapons, moved from remote control, etc. The toy was made to help the child NOT think. I hope this does not happen to my son. I plan on introducing him to GI JOE as the next major toy in his young life. I feel a simple toy, like GI JOE, can fuel a young mind. I wonder if other fathers my age plan on doing the same. I have purchased three of everything. One set to display opened, I to store iMOC, and one for my son. Nothing would give me more pleasure than to peak in on my son as he is setting up his Joes. Lets just hope that HASBRO sticks to it guns and makes simple toys. Package the figures, vehicles, and playsets and I/my son will provide the sounds, imagination, and action.

 

I agree whole-heartedly. My son, 2, has recently taken a liking to my Joes, Transformers, Star Wars, and Marvel Legends. I let him have a few of each that I consider cannon fodder and allow to test the water. The newest thing he plays with is Timber from the new single packs. :D

 

Among the many things I hope to teach him I will stress the fantastic and wonderful world of imagination and all of the different spectrums of my laundry list of collections I have and the joy they have brought me for 27 years. And maybe how to throw a basketball and hit a football or.. whatever. And maybe how to punch a kid when he gets old enough and they make fun of him for still playing with toys. @smilepunch@

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If you guys want to better develope your young childrens minds and grow their imaginations, you should get them started out on a couple of these...

 

atjoes5ti4.png

 

Plain and simple! #US1#

 

 

No names!

 

No comic books!

 

No cartoons!

 

No movies!

 

No named enemies!

 

Just a plain ol' G.I.Joe looking for ADVENTURE...any ADVENTURE, and ones that your child will have to THINK up for themselves, without referring back to the filecards on him. ;)

 

It was this very kind of imaginative "play" that probably help build those imaginations, that went on to write and create these ARAH Joes you guys all love so much. I do to, because they created for you (us) a lot of the things that I had to imagine up on my own as a kid, but now you have to wonder if it didn't script their story a little TOO much, and hindered a good bit of the potential for using their own imaginations to it's full extent?

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quote] snip...

 

I agree whole-heartedly. My son, 2, has recently taken a liking to my Joes, Transformers, Star Wars, and Marvel Legends. I let him have a few of each that I consider cannon fodder and allow to test the water. The newest thing he plays with is Timber from the new single packs. :D

 

snip...

 

My son started playing w/ my extra joes at 1+ y/o, gave him a lot of the SSs, SEs & kamakuras from the ninja battles. Also gave him timber, freedom, junkyard, croc master's crocodile & widescope's dog (had to snip the pointy tail though) which he used to pair w/ the animals in his fisher-price Noah's ark. He's almost 3 now & his collection has really grown to include Lanard/Corps & DTC vehicles (my ARAH figs are still off limits but as soon as I find the 25th, they'll be his to test). It's amazing when he does the different sound effects for each character, animal & vehicle. #US1#

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