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Old Joes vs New Joes....Serious Debate


imthebigdawg
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I can still remember the first time I saw Gi Joe....1982...Child's World in Totowa, NJ. They were, by far, my favorite toy growing up. However, as I got older, my Joes were passed onto my little brothers and then slowly disappearred. Before I got into collecting Joes as an adult, I feel I "romanticized" the old RAH. However, when I really looked back with an "objective" eye, the figures are not only lacking detail, they ugly by todays standard. Therefore, I wonder why so many people are still so hooked on them. I admit that I am not nostaligic. If you can take something old and make it better, then do it. I just picked up the new figures and really find very few flaws with them. If they changed nothing, i would still be extremely happy. Just curious what other people thought.

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I can remember my first GI Joe. It was Flash, with the straight arms. I got it at Gibson's store here in Alamogordo. I played with him so much that I broke him and my mom bought a new one and it had the bicep swivel joint so the arm moved side to side. I looked at it as totally different and loved the change as it was more playable. Like you, I remember them being much more detailed and exact. But, looking back on them I feel that they are sub par. These new ones do have flaws that can be fixed, but knowing Hasbro, we will see better versions later on down the line.

 

When I compare these new figures to the ones from the 80s, there is only one major complaint that I have for the new figures (2000 to Present), the quality of the plastic. But overall, I feel these are the New and Improved GI Joes that I kept dreaming about.

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My first Joe was Flash as well. I got him at Lionels play world, and man did that change everything in regards to toys for me. I played with star wars until then, but after flash it was all joes (except scarlet, my dad wouldnt buy me a girl toy, funny how toy companies still think of that, it must still happen. But I did score a lady jaye, he must have had a weak moment that day...lol). Although the Joes did take over my star wars toys. I still remember my ATAT with a very badly painted on (with nail polish of all things) cobra head.

I really like the new sculpt joes, their great. I would have loved to have somthing like them when I was a kid. But that old memory of yesterday kicks in and I cant help but smile when I see an original joe. I feel like a kid every year at con when I open that set and see some new 3 3/4 joes looking up at me, its like 1982 all over again for me.

I really hope these new joes take off and stay in stores for years and years to come. That way maybe in 20 years the con set will have these new sculpts and some kid will feel the same way I do every year.

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One of my first joes was psyche out. I cried because he was such a prancing pansy. Still to this day I hate that figure so much. I also got sneak peak around the same time who I also hated so much. I asked for the crimson twins and get psyche out and sneak peak. wastes of plastic.

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I came into collecting RAH Joes as an adult, so I have no childhood associations to them.

Instead, I've long at a fondness for the "latest thing", or detailed stuff, or something that's been enhanced over its earlier versions--especially if the enhancements make it do more things than before.

I bought a sizable number of the original RAH stuff, and I always graviated towards the latter items--mostly because of their aesthetics. The earlier figures lacked distinctly molded ears, for example--something that always bugged me.

I found myself preferring the more comic-book proportions of the Spytroops & GvC series Joes, and what I think are the stubbier RAH figures.

Once the reviews started coming in on the 25th line, I realized that I was actually lukewarm about them--that is until one aspect piqued my interest: the detail.

The detailed weapons caught my eye, the articulated M-79 that Gungo-Ho has suprised me. Its the kind of enhancement and feature that entices me as a collector.

Because I don't have the childhood sentimentality that others do, I'm ready to fully embrace these new items soley for things like the detail, just as I have all the other previous "new" items that came out.

 

Now, the curious thing here is that I was always a detail freak--even back in my childhood. So that never-ending appetite for detail could be my own form of "sentimentality"-albiet in a different way.

I know I don't have the warm and fuzzy feelings like others do, simply because the emotional connection just isn't there in that way. There's no other "people" or situations associated with my attachment, like there seems to be with others. I think my connection is based much more on an aesthetic.

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After thinking about this, the "old vs. new" debate is hazier than I thought.

 

If you were comparing an '82 SA Grunt with say, Major Barrage on figure quality alone, then you would have a clear winner.

 

But what if you took say, a VvV Alley Viper and compared it to say. . .Gnawgahyde or Outback v1? The quality winner would go to oldskool.

 

Then the new vs. old argument would be nothing but a comparison of raw numbers and "hits" versus "misses". Poor QC, paint, and/or proportions may be the downfall of many of the new, but raw nostalgia is the bane of the old.

 

Don't forget that numbers of characters and versions made are unbalanced between the two eras as well.

 

Annihilators, anyone? #yuk@#

 

-PJ

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My first GIJoe purchase was Grunt and the cobra SNAKE ARMOR. I got them at a Wal-Greens drug store. RAH was a great line and still has many vehicles and playsets that are far supperior to anything released today. For the figures though, they have their place in history but overall I prefer the new stuff, especially the new 25th anniversary stuff.

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My love for vintage RAH is partial nostalgia, and mostly my belief that RAH, from 83-90 is superior.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are some great sculpts, characters and figures post-1990, but many new-age releases of certain figures don't compare to their original counterparts (V1 BAT for example), I have yet to see a modern vehicle that even comes close to the majority of vintage vehicles, and as far as bases are concerned, I don't think anyone will argue that vintage wins hands down.

 

However, the biggest factor for me lies in the area of accessories. I can't name one figure from 83-90 that shared the same weapons...even though I know there are a few. The accessories are what made many of the vintage figures for me, and new-age GI Joe has not had that novelty. When you can show me a figure that has all new accessories, that are even close to the amount, and diversity, that figures like Blizzard, Captain Grid-Iron, Stormshadow V1, Shockwave, V1 Wet Suit, Salvo, V1 Jinx, Techno-Viper, Gnawgahyde, Snake Eyes V2, most of the figures from 1990...heck...name 5 figures, post 1990, that have more than 3 accessories, and none of them are reproductions...

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Guest DavAnthony
I can still remember the first time I saw Gi Joe....1982...Child's World in Totowa, NJ. They were, by far, my favorite toy growing up. However, as I got older, my Joes were passed onto my little brothers and then slowly disappearred. Before I got into collecting Joes as an adult, I feel I "romanticized" the old RAH. However, when I really looked back with an "objective" eye, the figures are not only lacking detail, they ugly by todays standard. Therefore, I wonder why so many people are still so hooked on them. I admit that I am not nostaligic. If you can take something old and make it better, then do it. I just picked up the new figures and really find very few flaws with them. If they changed nothing, i would still be extremely happy. Just curious what other people thought.

 

Hey I remember that Childs World in Totowa it was about 20 minutes from my house.

 

As far as old vs new. For me I have a special place for my old Star Wars, Transformer, He-Man and GiJoe figures. Each of those toy lines fill me with nostaliga of my childhood and the friends and people at my life at that time. I remember building forts out of craft sticks for my GiJoes one summer with my two best child hood friends. I remember my Grandparents buying me the Terror Drome for Christmas. I remember my parents bringing me to the store for an end of school year reward.

 

There had also never been any toy like most of these toys. Things were new and effort was really pumped into them. So they were all special in that regard as well.

 

However as an adult I have a fondness for nostalgia but also I enjoy where our modern sculpting abilities have brought us. I understand the interest in "vintage" toys as an art form, but I appreciate the modern toys for what they bring to the table. I think the new 25th GiJoes are along the lines of the modern Star Wars line. The detail, articulation and sculpts really blow the old ones out of the water, however the old figures hold a nostaligia that the new ones are building on.

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I remember my first joe, it was a 97 Torpedo. My uncle got it for me, but I didn't pay attention to how cool it was only being like 4 at the time. It's not that I hate the old sculpts It's just that I don't prefer 'em. Like, I can't stand how the old sculpts have huge heads and they're all hard plastic, so it's hard to make them hold weapons with their C shaped hads. I feel bad though, because I don't know where my Torpedo went, sad thing is I probably broke him, kinda understandable being 4 and all.

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I prefer OLD School Joes/Cobras... "hands down!"...

 

Yes, I was 8 when I got my first vintage Joe (Zap) from a store called "Kiddytown" in CT (no longer around). So I have the history to fall back on...

 

But anyway...

 

Vintage 3 3/4" Joes were the "end all" to modern day action figures in 1982 and continued strong through the 80's and 90's ...how can people

compare todays modern day toy technology to 25 years ago?? You can't... we have come a long way! The only reason we have the 25th anniv. figures is due to the success of vintage RAH! Obviously the 25th Anniv. toys are more articulated and detailed... this is 2007...we better have nicer looking figures by now!

 

The new line of Joes used a "blue-print" to work from...vintage joes had nothing to follow (except maybe Star wars)...they were the first of their kind when it came to articulation etc.... the 25th anniv line is essentially a remake of what we love...RAH! It's like saying the 2007 mustang is better then the 1957 mustang...it's just a newer model!... heck I'd rather have the '57 mustang! Its was made with better quality parts (not the cheap stuff they use today)... cooler looking... and has that vintage/nostalgic quality you can't find in todays model cars! ...and much harder to find in mint condition....just like our RAH figures!

 

Who would you rather own if someone gave you a choice... (25 exist) AFA 1982 Snake Eyes vs. (1.5 million??) AFA 2007 Snake Eyes?

 

So, for people to say they rather have the NEW joes (just remember why we have New joes in the first place) to commemorate (NOT replace) what we've grown to love for the first 25 years of 3 3/4" figures!

 

"Nostalgia will ALWAYS win me over...anyday!" It's why I welcome these NEW figures....

 

Yo Joe!

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Just for the record, this is not a "one is better than the other" discussion....I say to each his own. Obviously, the only reason we have a 25th anniversary line is due to the predecessor....All I am saying is that the new sculpts are truly amazing because they do what the old sculpts didnt....a great looking action figure....I am almost 33 years old, so playing with the Joes like I am eight again isn't happening (not because I dont want to, I just dont have the time). However, standing on my shelf, I think they are a true work of art. Personally, I would much rather have them on my shelf, then the old RAH....lets hope they make every 82-91 figure over again in the new sculpt format....new sculpt and the same great art work make for one nice display......I am dying to see the new figures.

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My earliest memory of G.I. Joe is of the ad on the back of a Marvel comic advertising the G.I. Joe fan club. I think it featured the package art for Flash and the R.A.M., and you know how dynamic that artwork appeared to a nine-year-old. I was hooked right away. I believe my first G.I. Joe figure ever was Snake-Eyes, followed closely by Flash. (Who didn't want Flash? He looked cool.) (lol) It just snow-balled from there. I would buy the figures every chance I got, including birthdays, Christmas, and whenever I could scrape-up the money. My dad and my older brother always bought the Marvel comic, and of course I watched the tv show religiously after school. It was all about G.I. Joe for me growing up.

 

Looking back, I remember loving the real-world details in the weapons and accessories, the file cards, and the vehicles. And I always loved the consistency in the body-style and sculpt of G.I. Joe figures, the detailed weapons and accessories, and the great vehicles. There was just so much going on in the world of G.I. Joe. SO many great characters, so many great vehicles and playsets, and I could probably write a book about all the adventures I had. There was never a point when you stopped to notice an inconsistency, or how badly something had been done. But you'd marvel at the improved "Swivel-Arm Battle-Grip" or ball-jointed neck. At least that was my experience...

 

Of course I've been intrigued in recent years by Hasbro's attempts to revive G.I. Joe, and I say attempts because I never felt like they succeeded in reviving the line to the same status it enjoyed all those years ago. But there are many pros and cons for and against each era.

 

I like how the newer figures are more detailed. And I like the added articulation in most cases. Also the weapons and accessories are phenominal in terms of detailing. Take a close look at Gung-Ho's grenade launcher to see what I mean. The flippin' SIGHT folds up on the barrel for pete's sake! (lol) I thought that was insane for it to be so detailed. I just wish it didn't fall apart so easily. The hinges on mine kinda bend outward, making it hard to stay together at times.

 

I love the old stuff for sentimental reasons, but I love the modern stuff just because it seems so surreal to see new G.I. Joe figures after all these years when it never occurred to me I'd still be buying them as a thirty-three year-old man. If I weren't such a cheap-skate and loved Star Wars so much, I'd be collecting all things G.I. Joe, especially the vintage RAH stuff. It's just that it's so expensive to collect MOC/MISB stuff like I would want to, that I don't even bother since there's other stuff I want to be able to afford. I mainly collect Star Wars statues and mini-busts, along with the occaisional twelve-inch figure from Sideshow, so you know how expensive that can be, and so I can't devote all of my resources to collecting MOC/MISB Joe stuff. But if I didn't collect anything else, that's where my heart would be probably. Anyway, I like the idea of starting over with just the Anniversary toys. It's like I can collect on the fringes now or something. It just seems to simplify things for me. Does that make any sense whatsoever? It's like I can collect this little anniversary line of figures on the side in-between buying the Star Wars stuff. I just hope Hasbro addresses some of the issues I have with the newer figures, like fragile wrist joints and loose hip joints. I could see this line really taking off and producing some great things if they'll do it right. As far as the hip joint is concerned, all thy'd have to do is start making them all like Roadblock; his hip joints are nice and tight and they're made in such a way that he can sit as well as the older figures could. And they hid Scarlett's forearm joint with her gloves, so why couldn't they have hidden Duke's where his rolled-up sleeves were? It's just tiny little things like that that hurt the new stuff, but I'm hoping they will be addressed, allowing the anniversary line to recapture some of Hasbro's former glory with G.I. Joe. It's a very exciting time right now.

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Yes if I was just guging on childhood memories it would be RAH, but frankly after getting the new 25th stuff, the RAH stuff is just butt ugly even more in my eyes. It still has a place in my heart but not as big as long as the new sculpts make my fav characters updated. Kinda like the SW figs, I used to love the vintage line as a kid, but now a days I have no desire to have many as the new stuff blows it away.

Draven

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I would take vintage over new sculpt any day of the week! simple for the FACT that there are far more oddball wacked proportions on the new sculps then ever in the vintage line. who here would take a few large heads and unsculpted ears over pea heads, shrunken crotches, diaper crotches, super long legs and short torsos, while i will admit that there are some really good looking figures in the new sculpts! but there are far more oddball pieces of sh@t.

 

 

TM

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I would take vintage over new sculpt any day of the week! simple for the FACT that there are far more oddball wacked proportions on the new sculps then ever in the vintage line. who here would take a few large heads and unsculpted ears over pea heads, shrunken crotches, diaper crotches, super long legs and short torsos, while i will admit that there are some really good looking figures in the new sculpts! but there are far more oddball pieces of sh@t.

 

 

TM

 

I hear what you are saying, but I dont see it. Maybe my eye is not as discriminating, but I think the new figures are very well proportioned. And when I say new, I mean 25th Anniversary.....Hasbro has baffled me since 2000 with their constant changing of the line and proportions....I would love to sit in on the converstions/pitch of the Gi Joe vs Cobra discussion and hear what some of these "experts" were saying.

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Personally, I'm not sure what people are talking about when they call the old Joes ugly (unless you're talking about some of the crap they did later, like Star Brigade, etc...). I love the looks of them. The new Joes don't have particularly good face sculpts - except for Scarlett, none of them seem "better" than the old ones, in terms of sculpting.

 

When you're talking about overall quality, however, I think the proper thing to do is not directly compare the lines to each other, but to other lines out there. Back in the '80s and '90s, can you name a line that was better than RAH in terms of sculpting, articulation and design?

 

Now, these new figures have a lot of competition. I'm sorry, but the Cobra Trooper/Officer isn't nearly as good as the VOTC Stormtrooper, Biker Scout, or ROTS super-articulated Clones... I'm not sure if the sculpting (or articulation for that matter) is better than Marvel Legends. There's no vehicles, so it doesn't have that extra edge the old line did.

 

There isn't enough new school Joes to compare to RAH. We only have 15 25th figures so far and only from the glory years of RAH 82-87 there is just such a huge amount of vehicles that make it the hands down winner.

 

I agree - I also think that the fact that it's a brand new line will also influence people's decision. People seem to like new things. On the other hand, you could say that nostagia will influence the RAH fans...

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Old Joes for Display

 

New Joes for play

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After opening a new Cobra Officer figure (from the 25th new stuff) I'm even MORE old school RAH brand of Joe toys than EVER!

 

These new toys they're calling G.I.Joe, have been reduced to cheap and flimsy pieces of VISUALLY pleasing (only) nostalgic pieces for display, but not really a action figure TOY, in the TRUE sense of the word. :(

 

They've not made ARAH G.I.Joe "BETTER" they've just went ahead and made it all over again, but different, and the difference is not better, it's actually worse...imo! ;)

 

The new figures can't move nearly as much as the old figures could. Swivel wrists and feet are all the new figures GOT on the old Joes, but what they LOST in comparison, still makes them inferior, in quality and "play" factor.

 

I wish I could afford all those convention sets from MC, becuase they're about the only Joes left....worth collecting.

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Personally, I'm not sure what people are talking about when they call the old Joes ugly (unless you're talking about some of the crap they did later, like Star Brigade, etc...). I love the looks of them. The new Joes don't have particularly good face sculpts - except for Scarlett, none of them seem "better" than the old ones, in terms of sculpting.

 

I think you got some colored glasses on there. Using these images from JBL, how can you sit there and say that head sculpt of the RAH looks better the the 25th

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2...ke/dukecomp.jpg

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2...v1/sev1comp.jpg

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2...roopercomp1.jpg

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2.../gunghocomp.jpg

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2...1/ssv1comp1.jpg

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2...v1/ccv1comp.jpg

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2.../destrocomp.jpg

 

http://joebattlelines.com/images/reviews/2...ronesscomp2.jpg

 

 

Honestly I dont know how you can look at those comparison shots and say that RAH sculpts look better. I'll give RAH points for probably being more durable, but when it comes to looks the new figures win hands down.

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