ML: Aesthetic vs. Articulation

[Billy T.]

ML: Aesthetic vs. Articulation - What Say You? (Vote Now!)

 

We know that many collectors and fans agree that the overall appearance of a figure ranks higher than the articulation point count.

 

Many would agree that coming into ML 15, ToyBiz had a pretty good handle on multiple POA that were unobtrusive with regards to overall aesthetic. In light of that, I don't really believe that you have to sacrifice a higher POA count in order to have a figure that looks good, too. However, our Hasbro respondent suggested otherwise. In effect, the Hasbro rep's statement suggested that HML-style super-poseability is more aesthetically pleasing than TBML super-poseability and thus, collectors/fans prefer HML POA to TBML POA.

 

NOTE: There is no middle ground choice offered here, as the statement made by the Hasbro rep was pretty "either/or."

 

Something to keep in mind, here are some of the POA that have gone missing (or have been replaced with "more aesthetically pleasing" and "preserving the same range of motion" Hasbro-ticulation):

 

-waist swivel

-bicep swivel

-double-hinged elbows

-wrist swivel

-wrist hinge

-hand hinge

-double-hinged knees

-ankle swivel

-ankle hinge

-foot swivel (side-to-side)

-foot hinge

[jcjdotcom]

Aesthetic is more important to me. DC Direct doesn't have enough articulation, but Marvel Legends have always had too much articulation IMO. It they would meet somewhere in the middle, I'd be very happy. I actually like the articulation of the Hasbro ML's. Some of them need a little more, but overall I'm pretty happy with it.

[CapnJeffro]

I have to go with Aesthetic on this one. Many Toy Biz Marvel Legends often times had WAY too many POAs and a lot were loose. I found this to especially be true earlier on. And I actually like the none poseable fingers especially on figures that have weapons to hold onto. Just mold the hands into appropriate designs for the character.

[Dark_Phoenix]

Articulation. TOybiz had articulation perfected for most of the line and not one figure actually suffered in the aesthetic department due to articulation. I want to be able to pose my action figures, not have them sit there like statues like DC DIrect/McFarlane/DCSH figures do.

[SlushyFrog]

I'm willing to sacrifice a little articulation here and there (not too much tho) for the sake of aesthetics.

[Starman]

I like when there are choices.

 

If you want a staute go with NECA or McFarlane.

If you want "standard" articulation go with DC Direct or PotC, Power Rangers or whatever.

If you want a figure that can be posed in the most extreme poses of the source material (comics), go with ML.

 

ML is a line that depicts comic book characters. Most Marvel artists draw characters in an exaggerated form, thus the figures should reflect this.

 

DC and Mattel took a hint from ML for the DC Superheroes line. Look at the articulation on Mongul or Supergirl, it's close to ToyBiz era ML figs.

 

Hasbro has made it so ML articulation falls below even the DC Superheroes level.

Which is a shame, since ML was the line that set the standard for articulation AND asthetic.

 

When the figures Hasbro produce have LESS articulation than the copycats, isn't that a case of the tail wagging the dog?

 

For me, ToyBiz struck a perfect balance between articulation and asthetic. Sure, it took a while, but eventually they got there. They had to figure out what would work, and they eventually perfected the process.

 

What bugs me, is why did Hasbro decide to scrap all of what ToyBiz accomplished?

Sure, Hasbro has good sculpts and better plastic, but with limited articulation, minimal paint apps, little to no pack-ins (ie cards, dioramas, comics, weapons) and a jump in price, is it worth it?

As is said in some regions "Why fix what ain't broke?"

 

Heck if Mattel, who kill EVERY action figure line they touch can bite the bullet, why can't Hasbro, who has a proven track record with GI Joe, TF's and SW?

 

Oh well, C'est la Vie.

 

Starman

[la eternidad dura un momento]

I preferiry to change of company at the time of making new line of series marvel, frankly the last products has been dissapointing, as much in their quality as in their selection, and the figures of you complete movies have an inferior quality level to the hoped one in completes delivery, frankly hasbro failure in its attempt to surpass the work made by Marvel Legends, and the Marvel company or rather their executives, were but interested in monetary gains that in satisfying a client who already was satisfied with which adquiry

 

 

thanks

[Moshbot]

Sorry, I know there is no "middle of the road" opinion here, but Articulation adn awesthetics CAN be mixed, not affecting one or the other.

 

Examples

10th Anniversary Spawn, from McFarlene. They were clever enough to make cuts and art. where sculpt is not affected.

 

DCSH. To me, this line is a great combination of the most important issues in an action figure. what do this figs need? double hinged elbows and knees, and a differnet head art. style (ala DCD`s JLA Superman)

 

HML Thor. That figure is almost perfect, if it wasnt for the bicep art.

[ransomz]

Hasbro's answer is merely a justification for lazy engineering. Rather than take the effort to include high degree of articulation, they say they just can't do it without sacrificing asthetics. Look at Toy Biz's Ultimate Captain America figure. Tons of articulation and it looks great. Hasbro is just coping out if they say they aren't able to do what Toy Biz did two years ago.

[TheWaspinator]

I went with the second option, but not entirely for aesthetics. The bigger problem with the higher number of joints is stability. It becomes almost impossible to get some figures to stand upright without being attached to a stand when you start getting to the higher levels of articulation. Also, quality control starts to get worse as there are more places for the figure to break. I'll take the sturdier but less poseable Hasbro figures over Toybiz's flimsier yet more poseable figures any day.

[RandomHero]

Like has been said, you can have a high level of articulation without hindering the sculpt, there's numerous Toybiz figures out there as evidence. I think Hasbro is kinda full of BS on this one.

[CapnJeffro]

Maybe not hindering the sculpt per se, but I've had MANY a Toy Biz ML that had too many loose joints to stand upright on their own or to be ale to take on more than a pose or two.

[WIP1]

Well, I won't pick either answer, because Hasbro, IMO, doesn't offer sufficient articulation OR aesthetics. I buy a lof of McFarlane stuff, so I'm obviously into aesthetics first and foremost. However, if I'm buying an "action figure", I want the blasted thing to be able to reproduce the poses I remember from the comics when I was a kid, etc. I LOVED my 12" Adventure Team Joe when I was a kid, because I could put that thing in almost any pose a real human being could do. And in my mind, THAT IS part of the "aesthetics". How stupid does it look to have a cool looking fig with just enough articulation to "sort of" put it in an action pose that looks awkward and unnatural? I'd rather have "locked in" action like a McFarlane piece or ToyBiz type articulation, not the maddening middle of the road crap that Hasbro puts into figs, especially SW figs and now MLs.

[WIP1]

Like has been said, you can have a high level of articulation without hindering the sculpt, there's numerous Toybiz figures out there as evidence. I think Hasbro is kinda full of BS on this one.

 

Just "kinda full of BS"? @eyerise@

[Skips]

Hasbro has the aesthetics???? Thats news to me...

 

Iam all for Toybiz style.

[MysterioMenace]

The sheer amount of articulation in some of the Toybiz Marvel Legends I find to be completely ridiculous….positively speaking. How they ever managed to make the figures look as good as they did with that high of a articulation count is just…beyond me. I consider the Toybiz run on Legends the greatest toy line in the history of collecting - it struck me as for the fans, by the fans. Their integration of a massive POA count is almost single handedly responsible for the birth of the modern action figure expectations. Hasbro just can’t keep up with what Toybiz did - they’ve always struck me as being more consumed with the money, not the customer - their Marvel Legends offering essentially proves this to me. I have yet to purchase a single Hasbro marvel product…and I’m questioning if I ever will. Their products just aren’t up to par with what could be and has been made by other companies. Plus, wasn’t it Hasblow who said that collectors want less articulation on average? See, if the sculpts were superior to Toybiz’s but lacking their amount of mobility…I’d live - but that’s just it, NOTHING about Hasbro’s Legends thus far is superior to the Toybiz ones…NOTHING! Are they actually going to try to convince me that Emma and Ultimate Wolverine are better then even Toybiz's worst? Heck, suddenly Scarlet Witch doesn't look so bad to me....

[MysterioMenace]

I like when there are choices.

 

If you want a staute go with NECA or McFarlane.

If you want "standard" articulation go with DC Direct or PotC, Power Rangers or whatever.

If you want a figure that can be posed in the most extreme poses of the source material (comics), go with ML.

 

ML is a line that depicts comic book characters. Most Marvel artists draw characters in an exaggerated form, thus the figures should reflect this.

 

DC and Mattel took a hint from ML for the DC Superheroes line. Look at the articulation on Mongul or Supergirl, it's close to ToyBiz era ML figs.

 

Hasbro has made it so ML articulation falls below even the DC Superheroes level.

Which is a shame, since ML was the line that set the standard for articulation AND asthetic.

 

When the figures Hasbro produce have LESS articulation than the copycats, isn't that a case of the tail wagging the dog?

 

For me, ToyBiz struck a perfect balance between articulation and asthetic. Sure, it took a while, but eventually they got there. They had to figure out what would work, and they eventually perfected the process.

 

What bugs me, is why did Hasbro decide to scrap all of what ToyBiz accomplished?

Sure, Hasbro has good sculpts and better plastic, but with limited articulation, minimal paint apps, little to no pack-ins (ie cards, dioramas, comics, weapons) and a jump in price, is it worth it?

As is said in some regions "Why fix what ain't broke?"

 

Heck if Mattel, who kill EVERY action figure line they touch can bite the bullet, why can't Hasbro, who has a proven track record with GI Joe, TF's and SW?

 

Oh well, C'est la Vie.

 

Starman

 

I couldn't have said it better myself - I didn't even need to post, you took the words right out of my…typing fingers? Sorry I read to late.

[la eternidad dura un momento]

Sorry, I know there is no "middle of the road" opinion here, but Articulation adn awesthetics CAN be mixed, not affecting one or the other.

 

Examples

10th Anniversary Spawn, from McFarlene. They were clever enough to make cuts and art. where sculpt is not affected.

 

DCSH. To me, this line is a great combination of the most important issues in an action figure. what do this figs need? double hinged elbows and knees, and a differnet head art. style (ala DCD`s JLA Superman)

 

HML Thor. That figure is almost perfect, if it wasnt for the bicep art.

 

 

seriously Hasbro cannot say that it sacrifices joints in favor of estetic image, ultimate Wolverine and the Emma Frost is really the worse thing than they have done to date, The Beast of moviea this simple, dwarfed one and without presence, the Thor this or, but even asi him lack something of attractive, the She Hulk is for my until the moment the best figure than they have produced, but lamentably the forearms are seen so pateticamente badly worked that they ruin the opportunity to put 10 to him, Quicksilver and Yellow jaket estan artistic or, but their painting work this in a level that reduces them to be toys, not figures of action, we do not speak of the fingers, it seems to me very strange that a figure as Black Heart of pelicula of Ghost Rider has almost so many joints as a Marvel Legends Toy Biz, but despues the figures of the Legends series has so limited are joints and poses by the same.

 

As ShadowBoy said and now I have verified it, the Line of DCSH really him this kicking the Buttock to Line HML, the detail, brightness and quality of you complete deliveries have left me agape, the single one to see as the brightness of the painting before the changes of light demonstrates the high quality level to me that they have executed in this figures, although they continuen selling them with the air of figures for children, have the true quality of figures of action for demanding collectors.

 

If Hasbro can be excused saying that they sacrifice joints by Estetic, this good, but to this step, next figures legends ended up having the same mobility that the sport figures of Mc Farlane Toys, but not it same quality and artistic attraction

[jahue]

Hasbro should come out and be honest and say hey it saves us a few bucks to eliminate some of the articulation, I love articulation especially for toys if I wanted a statue I would buy one, but I like toys. Taking away the articulation and saying it's for our benefit is a load.

[annihilator]

IMO, Hasbro is now behind DC Direct in their execution of action figures. Mattel has improved their sculpts, paint apps. Even Marvel Toys has a better line . . with Image characters that are coming out soon. Hasbro's Wave 1 Legends looks less articulated, sculpts on Emma Frost and Wave 2 Ult Wolverine are horrid. Not at all impressed with the X3 Movie Juggernaut (oh, he looks so menacing with that baby-faced Vinnie Jones look!) Plus they paint wash them or lack of it like toys instead of what action figures should look like. Overall, mediocrity is creeping in to the Legends line.

[ransomz]

The Hasbro elbow has about a 85 degree range of motion wherease the typical Toy Biz elbow had a 150 degree range. There was nothing wrong esthetically with the TB double hinged elbows, when done right. That's my biggest gripe against Hasbro right now.

 

That and where's my Ultron?

[ARES-god_of_war]

I'm "True Skool" when it comes to action figures. Not Old School like 12" GI Joes. Or, New School like McFarlane...I'm into the figs because of the property they stem from, not the other way around

 

I had more GI Joes because they had more "Playability" than Star Wars, Although I loved the movies and the figures we did get...I latched onto GI Joe for three reasons; Vehicles, Volume & Articulation.

 

Could you imagine fitting all four of the main characters from Star Wars into the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon they released (back when "they" were Kenner?) I know I can, and my childhood would've been much sweeter if that were possible!

[pesatyel]

It depends on the line.

 

Marvel Legends, for example, has TOO much articulation. When the figure can't even SIT, what good is it all?

 

Or the Justice League figures that have, what 3 points on most of them? WTF? Is this 1979? But they "look" pretty good (ie. like the toon for the most part).

 

But, really, it depends on what you do witth them. We have 4 types of collectors:

 

1) MOC. So, aesthetics would win over articulation here.

2) Lose, but unused. Basically, they just have the figures standing on bookshelves, for example, but don't ever really do anything with them. I'd think this group would also go for aesthetics.

3) Lose, posed/diorama. Generally, same as 2, but often used in dioramas or posed on shelves (rather than just "standing there"). In this case, I'd think both (aesthetics and articulation) would be equal here. They gotta LOOK good for the dio AND pose well/realistically.

4) Lose, play. As said, the figures are played with. While aesthetics has a place (picking one version of a character to play with most because it "looks best"), articulation more so promotes the actual fun of playing with them.

 

So, for most lines, ALL of them would, of course, fit 1. The Justice League figures would best fit 2 (since most don't DO anything). Marvel Legends would fit 2 or 3 (IMO, they aren't that much fun to "play" with). G.I. Joe would fit 3 and 4.

[jayjin121]

I miss toy-biz

[Rollo Tomassi]

So let me get this straight. When Hasbro originally took over the Marvel license and Legends line, they announced they were doing away with the extra like the comic book, and multiple accessories because it was cost prohibitive, if WE the collectors wanted to keep the Articulation we had grown accustomed to in the ToyBiz line. ( Never mind that this is a BS argument since a SMALLER company was putting better product, for less money, Hasbro you greedy jerks). But NOW they turn around and say they are getting rid of the articulation because WE the collectors say we really don't appreciate it and favor aesthetics instead? And some of you idiots are falling for it!! I'm glad most of you have the common sense to realize what Hasbro is really doing here. Looking at their bottom line instead customer service. They've been doing it for years and years in all of their other lines, Star Wars, GIJoe, Transformers, etc. Now you're suprised when they start doing it in Marvel?

 

I'm telling you here and now, so you can come back to this post in a year, that are going to find a way to make the entire ML line 5" like their stupid Spider-Man and Fantastic Four movie lines... and they will find a way to tell you that it's what the collectors "demanded"!!! I cringe that the Legends license got taken away from Toybiz and given to Hasbro. I knew it would begin a long slow spiral into suckiness.

 

 

Dear Hasbro. The reason Marvel Legends became such a hit with collectors and garnered the title "Best Toy Line Ever." is because of the amazing articulation that let collectors pose their favorite characters in ANY position they could think of. It's that simple. You're taking articulation away because you're greedy buggers. It has nothing to do with the wants and needs of the collectors. We aren't falling for it, you silly gits.