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Is Anyone Felling a Little, eh, Jealous and Frustrated


Forcehunter
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Let me clarify what I mean. I am a TF fan (G1 and BW of course) but I keep hearing Hasbro come up with lame-ass excuses about how G.I. Joe doesn't hold ujp. Well, what Im seeing (again this is my ignorant observation) that its all about friggin publicity. Im seeing everyone go ga-ga over the Tfs because of the movie. Well, why doesn't Hasbro try to hype up G.I. Joe, not necessarily a movie but other media. Sigma Six failed, I know but again it was because it was A dumbed down, B not well publicized. I honestly don't think they are trying to push Joe anymore. They just let it run a small course then let it fail. Why do the TFs get all the hype and push, when GI Joe, another in-house brand is not worthy of such effort. I had to look for those JvC commericals. Everywhere I turn its TF TF TF! I firmly believe that its all in the hype and the marketing. Anything can be a risk and they chose to do that with Transformers. I think without the marketing and publicity blitz, it would be an okay response with kids but the momentum die down sooner. I don't know, I just guess Im an old fart.

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I understand what u mean FH, they do need to hype up their Joe line but right now, especially with the movie coming out VERY soon, the TF hype is going to be off the wall, and I imagine the hype will sky rocket when the movie finally comes out and the a little after it.

 

After that though, when the shock and awe from the movie has died down, the Joes will come back some especially with the 25th anniversary stuff hitting mass retail, kids who can't get to TRUs on a regular basis will be able to get these newer figs. Thats going to really help the Joe line and who knows if TF is a success we may finally get the Joe live action movie and hopefully with a good story and script i.e. none of the scripts that have been seen as of now.

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GIJOE, as a toyline simply doesn't have the "legs" that Transformers has--we as fans have to accept that. Its not a question of publicity or advertising, consumers are simply NOT that interested in GIJOE.

Hasbro has offered EXCELLENT GIJOE product on many occasions over the past 10 years and very little of it has sold well.

Its been placed in major retailers where casual buyers shop frequently, there have been ads in flyers, end dump displays and certain trade magazines--the product has been out there for people to see.

Very few people bought it at retail prices--most of the stock ended up selling at discount.

That is not the sign of a solid, perennial line.

Transformers sells a LOT better, and does so year round. Each toy tends to have more visual and tactile bang for the buck than most GIJOE stuff, and that means it leaves the store more often in customers shopping carts.

 

Seriously, there's nothing to feel jealous about here. People want Transformers more than GIJOE, and no amount of putting GIJOE in their faces will change that. Enjoy it for what it is. It will never be again what it once was.

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Arrow makes some legit points, however I've been talking with some of the larger etailers who have been telling me that the new 25th Anniversary stuff has been bringing in their highest pre-order numbers this year, Also its looking more and more like a GIJoe movie could be in the works before to long so who knows.

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I think at this point, gi joe is more interesting to those who grow around it. Truth be told, kids will prefer properties that has a fantasy/sci fi theme than a more realistic one. I mean things like pokemon, yugioh, transformers, Marvel, DC, and Star Wars seems to do better because of their fantasy elements. True, gi joe have some sci fi and magic elements to it, but the main theme about Joe is the army versus a bad guy military group.

 

However, things might change in years to come. In the '90s, Joe actually lasted longer than transformers. Transformers were more like Gi joe is now in having old cartoons that really didn't reflect the new products. Remember Transformers g2? Gi joe, in the other hand had a cartoon made by DIC and their comicbook series was doing strong. I think DIC made two additional seasons of Gi joe after the sunbow run.

 

Transformers became popular once again because of Beast Wars(which was brief since Beast Machines sort of made the line unpopular again) for being something new and the TF anime Robots in Disguise for reintroducing the traditional robots to car transformation.

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I WAS NEVER A REAL FAN OF TRANSFORMERS, BUT BACK IN THE DAY I THOUGHT IT WAS ALRIGHT. NOW THAT MARVEL IS AT HASBRO AND G.I JOE IS ABOUT TO MAKE A NEW COMEBACK(JOE AND MARVEL ARE THE TWO GREATEST FRANCHISES OF ALL TIME BY THE WAY) NOW THAT I REALIZE THEY ARE GETTING THE BACK BURNER TREATMENT(AGAIN FOR THE JOES) I HATE TRANSFORMERS WITH AN ALL TIME PASSION. I HEARD THERES NO ROBOTS FOR THE FIRST 45 MINUTES OF THE MOVIE. I HOPE IT FAILS MISERABLY DOING SIMILAR BOX OFFICE NUMBERS TO STONE COLD STEVE AUSTINS THE CONDEMNED!!! BOOOOOO-ROBOTS.

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I WAS NEVER A REAL FAN OF TRANSFORMERS, BUT BACK IN THE DAY I THOUGHT IT WAS ALRIGHT. NOW THAT MARVEL IS AT HASBRO AND G.I JOE IS ABOUT TO MAKE A NEW COMEBACK(JOE AND MARVEL ARE THE TWO GREATEST FRANCHISES OF ALL TIME BY THE WAY) NOW THAT I REALIZE THEY ARE GETTING THE BACK BURNER TREATMENT(AGAIN FOR THE JOES) I HATE TRANSFORMERS WITH AN ALL TIME PASSION. I HEARD THERES NO ROBOTS FOR THE FIRST 45 MINUTES OF THE MOVIE. I HOPE IT FAILS MISERABLY DOING SIMILAR BOX OFFICE NUMBERS TO STONE COLD STEVE AUSTINS THE CONDEMNED!!! BOOOOOO-ROBOTS.

 

Newbie, even though you don't life TF, please refrain on how you say it since you start a possibly flame war about TF with your post. We have no problems of you having your own opinions, but the way you wrote your comment is asking others to start bashing another toyline, thus starting a flame war.

 

Not to be a jerk, but some ppl also don't like reading a message full of caps. Just that your post reads as if you are stirring up trouble

 

 

I disagree that both gi joe and marvel legends are gettin the backburner. Hasbro just made tons of Marvel related stuff in the market. From Spiderspud to Marvel heroes squad. I mean, Hasbro just got the license and they just released over 10 different toylines for Marvel? Doesn't sound like it is getting the back burner to me. Sure, the quality in marvel legends is lacking, but Hasbro is known to cut corners and I don't think it has anything to do with Transformers. Truth be told, not every line owned/licensed by Hasbro is single handedly is handled by one staff of Hasbro team. Rather, each property is handled by each division. The Marvel line is handled by the Marvel Division of Hasbro while the Transformers line is handled by the Transformers division. How can one line get delayed by another if they are handled by two different teams? I think the Marvel property is getting as much as the Star Wars and Transformers line.

 

The gi joe line is just making another comeback with the 25th anni series. Guess the sales of sigma 6 didn't do too well, so Hasbro is pushing the line with the 25 anniversary lineup.

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Gi Joe doesn`t have nearly the fan base that Transformers does. Transformers is huge in almost every country and is backed by the Japanese Takara-Tomy to help with designs and the media. It`s a joint effort with Hasbro whereas Gi Joe is only Hasbro. While yes it was immensly popular in the 80`s, it just isn`t as popular now and has limited exposure because of it.

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Gi Joe doesn`t have nearly the fan base that Transformers does. Transformers is huge in almost every country and is backed by the Japanese Takara-Tomy to help with designs and the media. It`s a joint effort with Hasbro whereas Gi Joe is only Hasbro. While yes it was immensly popular in the 80`s, it just isn`t as popular now and has limited exposure because of it.

 

You bring an interesting point with Gi being owned by Hasbro. I think that Gi joe is the only property owned by Hasbro since Transformers is actually owned by Takara-Tomy, but is licensed to Hasbro for whatever they want to do with it.

 

Also, I think the times we lived in makes Gi joe not as it was popular as it is now. I hope I don't be burned at the stakes for saying this, but with at the fantasy stuff in cartoons and such and with the war in Iraq, I think kids are a bit bored with stuff with army men and such. I mean, the exposure of real war may make kids less interested in army toys since it reminds them of real current issues. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the only time Gi joe is popular is during times when there is no war in the united states.

 

Also, unlike Transformers, Gi joe is a niche sort of thing were it would only be popular within the states. BTW, I too, am a Gi joe fan. I don't know how popular gi joe is in Canada and I don't know if Action Force retained it's popularity with the Gi joe change it received in the '80s, so I won't comment on that. But what I will say is that Gi joe is a toyline that is primary focused on the United States Army. Nothing against the U.S. army, but I do not think people from other countries are interested in a toyline that is heavily based on another culture, especially during this day in age. It is like if say, a company made a line of French toyline for France and brought it over to the U.S. I doubt it would sell as well here than it would in France. In general, Gi joe can be seen as a patriotic symbol, which may appeal to some of you guys. However, this appeal may be restricted based on geography.

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like pokemon, yugioh, transformers, Marvel, DC, and Star Wars seems to do better because of their fantasy elements.

 

I think you may be right there.

 

I'm not going to try and analyze why GI Joe is less popular than most every other toy line......to answer the question, am I feeling jealous.......NOPE.

 

Let TF have their movie. Being a GI Joe fan is like being a fan of a loosing sports team. You still stick with them no matter what and when they DO win (when they get their movie) you can tell all fair-weather Joe fans "I've been there the whole time" #US1#

(heck, I spent $10 on ONE TF movie fig and I felt like I was jumping on the band wagon)

 

Hasbro can push GI Joe as hard as it does TF or Star Wars or they can leave it for dead. I've still got pleanty of holes to fill and pleanty of figs to enjoy.

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i think you can blame the new Iraq war for casuing New style G.I.Joe to get hyped.

Oldschool is easy to hype becuase it was back in a better time, and Patriotic.

the 25th anniversary line will sell because of the "vintage feel"

 

it would be very hard to make a G.I.Joe movie accruate and one that all ages could enjoy.

afterall it is a military style idea, and people will die, and there will be violence. Robots are easy villans, no one relly will be too sad to see a bad robot die, but a bad human is still killing a human, and not real kid friendly.

 

and if your making a movie based on a toyline, it has to appeal to kids, and parents to take thier kids.

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and if your making a movie based on a toyline, it has to appeal to kids, and parents to take thier kids.

 

The only way I can see them making a movie that appeals to its kids with the gi joe brand on it is to make it like the '90s street fighter film

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I've never been jealous over TFs. Because, and this is just my opinon, I feel that the people running GI Joe have always "got" the fans of the brand more then the TFs side does. The TF side, they try, but don't seem to ever understand what to put out there to make fans happy, and then when they do have something that seems to make fans happy they never seem to keep it around. On the other side of things the Joe teams seem to always be trying to improve the product with fan feedback. A prime example is Classics. It was a big hit with fans, yet we havn't heard when or even if we are going to get more. On the other side of the coin is the 25th Joes, which went from 10 figures, to 25 figures, to now into 2008, and not a single figure is out yet. And they told all of us about it. Which I don't think is the brand's fault, but more the brand mager. I've never been a fan of how Aaron Archer handled things. I'll be glad when he moves on to something else. So no, I'm not jealous. I've collected both Joes and TFs, and I've always felt that the Joe team appericates and listens better to the fans.

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The TF side, they try, but don't seem to ever understand what to put out there to make fans happy, and then when they do have something that seems to make fans happy they never seem to keep it around. On the other side of things the Joe teams seem to always be trying to improve the product with fan feedback. A prime example is Classics. It was a big hit with fans, yet we havn't heard when or even if we are going to get more.

I don't think that's a fair assessment as classics was only meant to be a filler line before the movie line was released; there's just soo much movie product right now that continuing classics wouldn't be a financially sound idea for hasbro. Hopefully they'll pick it up again when the movie line has run its course.

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The TF side, they try, but don't seem to ever understand what to put out there to make fans happy, and then when they do have something that seems to make fans happy they never seem to keep it around. On the other side of things the Joe teams seem to always be trying to improve the product with fan feedback. A prime example is Classics. It was a big hit with fans, yet we havn't heard when or even if we are going to get more.

I don't think that's a fair assessment as classics was only meant to be a filler line before the movie line was released; there's just soo much movie product right now that continuing classics wouldn't be a financially sound idea for hasbro. Hopefully they'll pick it up again when the movie line has run its course.

 

True. This isn't the first time Hasbro did a "classics" line as a filler. Guess a lot of you forgot the Machine Wars line that was a Kaybee exclusive and was used as a filler between Beast Wars and Beast Wars Transmetal.

 

However, this is the first they actually used new molds

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The TF side, they try, but don't seem to ever understand what to put out there to make fans happy, and then when they do have something that seems to make fans happy they never seem to keep it around. On the other side of things the Joe teams seem to always be trying to improve the product with fan feedback. A prime example is Classics. It was a big hit with fans, yet we havn't heard when or even if we are going to get more.

I don't think that's a fair assessment as classics was only meant to be a filler line before the movie line was released; there's just soo much movie product right now that continuing classics wouldn't be a financially sound idea for hasbro. Hopefully they'll pick it up again when the movie line has run its course.

 

I think it's a fair assessment, if we are talking about how out of touch a Brand Manger is with fans of that brand. Yes, Classics was a filler, but they should have known that this line would go over very well with the fans and made future post movie plans for the line. And if that's what they planned to do, then why not just tell us? The Star Wars teams has pretty much told their future plans for the rest of 07. Joe has told us theirs and that the line will go on into 2008. But you ask about Classics and you get a non-answer. I also don't find it likely it'll contiune post-movie because they let Cracker, Dirge, and Thrust be conventions exclusives. Those would have been easy repaints to help support a fan driven line, yet they just let them go. Doesn't seem like they are planning on any future for classics. But I guess that's what irks me the most. I don't mind no classics because of the movie, but a clear "Yes they will be coming back after the movie." or a "No, they won't be coming back" is what I'd like to hear. And they can't even tell us that. The Joe brand has told us all about hte 5-packs, and the first two single carded waves offically, and we know what the third wave will be, and that we'll be getting more in 2008. That's why I feel more apperciated by the Joe team, then I do the TF team.

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No joe fans should sit back and hope the transformer movie does well, because its success will pave the way for a gijoe live action movie. besides by the time the Con rolls around everyone will be sick of transformers. Thats why i rotate my collecting habits from Tf, joes and SW. ill never lose interest in them. Any by the way some of the new Tfs are among the best ever made for there price point. I already have most of them.

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You bring an interesting point with Gi being owned by Hasbro. I think that Gi joe is the only property owned by Hasbro since Transformers is actually owned by Takara-Tomy, but is licensed to Hasbro for whatever they want to do with it.

No, it's a joint partnership. Japan is the ONLY place in the world where Takara/Tomy are the primary sellers of TF products. Hasbro sells it about everywhere else. Hasbro has also taken a leadership position with the brand. If Takara had their way, we'd probably not even be getting TF products (they didn't produced any mainstream TF products between 2001 and 2003).

HASBRO initiated Alternators (and has supported the line farther than Takara has)

HASBRO initiated 20th Prime

HASBRO forced Takara to go with Gonzo for Cybertron (which, an average, WAS better produced than Energon or most of Armada)

HASBRO has pretty much taken the lead with the brand, including getting Cartoon Network to make a new cartoon and a new toyline to go with it

HASBRO has produced every show character for each show. Energon and Cybertron both featured toys on the show that Takara never made for their market.

And rumors I've heard are that Hasbro fronted Tomy the money to buy Takara since Hasbro has a better working relationship with Tomy.

 

I think it's a fair assessment, if we are talking about how out of touch a Brand Manger is with fans of that brand. Yes, Classics was a filler, but they should have known that this line would go over very well with the fans and made future post movie plans for the line. And if that's what they planned to do, then why not just tell us?

They did, several times. As is, I'd hardly call a brand manager that launched a miniline of all new molds based on a cartoon and comic series not available to kids not in touch with the fans. Yes, we didn't get a bunch of repaints to complete our G1 characters, we still got some VERY nice figures, and the much valued return of a fan favorite (Bumblebee).

They said they are looking at Classics in the future, but right now, we got another 6+ months of TF movie crap, plus a new cartoon series with ITS toyline. All told, these marketed lines are more important to Hasbro than catering to an older fanbase (which is all what more classics would be at this point). My suspicion is that classics (or a similar concept) will pop up for the 25th celebration in 2009, possibly as a side point to a movie sequel (kinda like how classics were done this year)

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Personally, I like the fact that GI Joe has a much smaller fan base than Transformers or Star Wars. Makes it a bit less nerdy.

 

Nothing against the U.S. army, but I do not think people from other countries are interested in a toyline that is heavily based on another culture, especially during this day in age. It is like if say, a company made a line of French toyline for France and brought it over to the U.S. I doubt it would sell as well here than it would in France. In general, Gi joe can be seen as a patriotic symbol, which may appeal to some of you guys. However, this appeal may be restricted based on geography.

 

I think you have a point and it'd be interesting to see if they were able to make GI Joe truly international, something they've flirted with in the past but never really got behind. Nowadays you hear a lot about the need for an international strike force of some sort to put some force behind the UN - it'd make GI Joe more relevant to both the present time and the international community, and it'd be cool to see classic characters mixed in with people like Big Ben, the Oktober Guard characters, and maybe some of the Action Force, Argentinian and Brazilian characters, all permant members of the GI Joe international anti-terrorist strike force.

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There's a couple of things to consider here about GIJOE:

 

One being that in times of "war", military toys bottom out in sales. Consumers do not want to be reminded ot the reality in children's fantasy toys. Military toys are ALWAYS skittish products to begin with.

The original 12" GIJOE in the 60's sold well enough at first, but once Vietnam came along, the military line sold miserably. GIJOE's prominence then is actually due to the Adventure Team--which was a non-military (or less militaristic) themed line and it sold FAR more product than the military stuff ever did.

In the 80's--in the Reagan era-- it became fashionable to be patriotic again simply due to the charisma of Reagan, so GIJOE had the right tempo for those years.

By that logic, after Desert Storm, and 9/11, you'd think the toys would be apopular as ever.........but there's the other factors involved. The realities of war changed from the glamorous stories of the movies, to the ugly reality of seeing it actually happen on our TV's--and then it was reflected back to us with more realistic movies.

The tempo has come too close to home. Sure, patriotism is still there, but let's not bring the reality and pain of war too close to the kids--is what the thinking seems to be.

The blind levels of trust and faith in leadership have lessened to a guarded, respectful caution. North American society becomes polarized a lot easier than it ever has before.

 

I think that makes selling such a black-and white military based toy-line so hard these days.

 

 

The other thing is actually more important. Action figure sales have been charted over the past 20 years as steadily falling.

Kids are not interested in action figures anymore, as video games give them a far better stimulating experience. The play patterns we understand from our childhoods are largely lost to today's generation of children. Part of the problem is the whole collectible nature of the toys, and the marketing branding of them as collectibles.

Kids do not play with collectibles-they keep them. Kids play with toys. There's a growing dichotomy, almost a schism between those two labels.

Some of the proof of this is to look at the aisles in stores and note the numbers of DIFFERENT action figures in those aisles, and how few of each appear to be stocked. I'm told that action figures used to be stocked in about twice the volume, but with as few as half the brands we see today.

That means more attempts at shooting in the dark today---hoping for a hit.

 

Parents are fussier...hell ALL consumers are fussier these days. Accessory sets bomb--because the perception is the product is incomplete and consumers, and retailers, want a complete item in their shopping basket, so they get a "better value" for their money.

This is why large playsets and vehicles do not sell. Consumers do not want to buy a toy vehicle--then have to figure out which seperately packed figure goes with it, so their kid will be happy with the thing.

The flip-side of this is when the items ARE packed together, the cost is higher.......and being a cheapskate is a common trait amongst consumers.

Video games cost at LEAST double any action or action/figure vehicle combo--but they give a better value for the dollar in doing so. The kid will sit quietly playing the game (at full volume, LOL) for hours longer than they will play with an action figure.

Again, because kids seem to be losing their imaginative associations with toys like action figures.

 

Transformers is a bit of an abberation, because it combines something unseen in other toys: a puzzle and a action figure. Transforming the robot is akin to solving a Rubiks cube, with a action figure available at the outcome. The function of the toy--and the actions required to get it from one mode to another-- are compelling to a child.

GIJOE is merely an action figure of a toy soldier. He "functions" based on the child's imagination only--there is no other gimmick to him. Because things like video games supply children with imaginative stimulus without ANY mental work, something like GIJOE is too much thinking to play with. Kid's have little or no associative touchstones as to what to do with a military toy--hence its not "cool".

Again--you go back to the media for like associations and you've got what? The morbid reality of war.

Kids do not want to play with characters that are going to lose limbs, cowering under shattered walls screaming and crying for help, and the general horror of combat.

 

This is a really tough nut to crack. That is why I think Hasbro has been so "timid" with the lines of late-and careful with something like the 25th line. DTC failed to take off, Sigma Six bombed in all respects except the designs of the characters. Its like GIJOE has become a perpetual placeholder for.......GIJOE--whatever the concept will evolve into next.

Right now, they are using a calender event (25 years of RAH) to fuel nostalgia--but let's have no pretenses here, nostalgia is NOT a emotional touchstone a kid will recognize. The articulation is the gimmick this time--and the details. It remains to be seen how this first batch of product sells, and then what the NEXT batch of stuff is like after that.

Maybe articulation IS the gimmick consumers will latch onto........or maybe its meaningless to them.

The broken record says yet again; " we shall see".

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Personally, I like the fact that GI Joe has a much smaller fan base than Transformers or Star Wars. Makes it a bit less nerdy.

 

You'd think the smaller numbers would make us more geeky??

 

Not that being a geek is bad......

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You bring an interesting point with Gi being owned by Hasbro. I think that Gi joe is the only property owned by Hasbro since Transformers is actually owned by Takara-Tomy, but is licensed to Hasbro for whatever they want to do with it.

No, it's a joint partnership. Japan is the ONLY place in the world where Takara/Tomy are the primary sellers of TF products. Hasbro sells it about everywhere else. Hasbro has also taken a leadership position with the brand. If Takara had their way, we'd probably not even be getting TF products (they didn't produced any mainstream TF products between 2001 and 2003).

HASBRO initiated Alternators (and has supported the line farther than Takara has)

HASBRO initiated 20th Prime

HASBRO forced Takara to go with Gonzo for Cybertron (which, an average, WAS better produced than Energon or most of Armada)

HASBRO has pretty much taken the lead with the brand, including getting Cartoon Network to make a new cartoon and a new toyline to go with it

HASBRO has produced every show character for each show. Energon and Cybertron both featured toys on the show that Takara never made for their market.

And rumors I've heard are that Hasbro fronted Tomy the money to buy Takara since Hasbro has a better working relationship with Tomy.

 

I disagree with your points considering how DEFENSIVE you are over HASBRO and I am not talking about this debate, but ones from the past. I mean, hell, remember how I thought you were working for Hasbro?

 

IF Hasbro HAD their way, we would probably have Beast Machines Transtech reborn figures or something like that.

 

I heard that there are two stories behind Alternators. There is one that Aaron Archer CLAIMS to have started, which I only heard from other posters. Then there is the more concrete one, which has been published in aJAPANESE MAGAZINE, and translated by Tfromers.com. There was even a website interview in Japanese that stated two TAKARA Transformers designers came up with the idea. They even have a resume of the toy. Can those who claimed AA initied the line back it up with published magazines and interviews? I also disagree with Hasbro pushed the line farther than Takara since the line was branched out in Japan in three different series. We have the asterisk line and the infamous kiss line, but having new characters, albit them being mostly repaints, but nevertheless, the majority supported new head sculpts. The Binaltech line isn't even over in Japan as we just got Bt Black Convoy and will get an Ehobby exclusive clear version of BT mirage. It is possible that Takara will release a normal to coincide with it. The binaltech line even has a storyline, something that the Hasbro version lacks. Also, there is the thing with diecast metal. Takara, while slow with the BT figures, seems to not have forgotten about them.

 

You forget that TAKARA sells their figures in KOREA and HONG KONG (they get both Hasbro and Takara products) as well. Those official Korean Beast Wars 2nd, Neo, and Robots in Disguise figures aren't produced by Hasbro, but rather by TAKARA. Hasbro mostly has the western/european countries while TAKARA has the asian market.

 

If Cybertron was under Hasbro's leadership, how come Gonzo didn't follow through with most of followed Hasbro's instruction? If you read the interviews and such, Cybertron is not connected to the other shows, much to Hasbro's dismay. One of the Hasbro employee's came up with up with the "black hole" theory to explain why the events in Cybertron is different from Energon and Armada.

Even if Hasbro was the one to get Gonzo, there was some miscommunication involved. Doesn't seem like a good partnership, which might be the reason why Hasbro went to Cartoon Network Studios. I recall from an interview how Hasbro was claiming that the changes like not being part of Armada or adding monsters in one episode is all Gonzo's doing.

 

I heard from several posters here and on tformers.com that Hasbro is quite anal in sharing the non TV character figures they made with Takara. Even if that is a rumor, Takara has released non TV show characters in the past through the USA exclusive line they have. True, they are labelled as USA Exclusives, but they were released officially in Japan.

 

Speaking of figures that Hasbro seems to only get and Japan don't, Takara has released the Nike Transformers line, the ehobby repaints, the Hybrid line, the dreaded kiss player line, the revotech line, the ipod line, etc ... Lines that have yet, if not never be released by Hasbro. So it is moot to say Hasbro releases figures non show figures and Takara doesn't. Each company release figures that others may have not gotten.

 

I don't know who initited 20th anniversary Prime, but regardless, Takara went further with Megatron and Starscream. The latter which Hasbro will be using, but had no involvement in the production of.

 

Takara even adapted the 20th anniversary line for their Brave line.

 

My final and best reason I have on why I believe Takara-Tomy owns it and Hasbro is licensing is because on every toy, it says something like"Licensed to Hasbro. Takara" or something like that. If it was a joint venture, I think it was just list the two companies names rather than having all the toys saying that it is licensed for Hasbro.

 

For those to understand this concept better, think Gobots. Gobots is a line that is consisted of Bandai Machine Robo figures, which Tonka had the license and decides to release them as Gobots. Now, take that idea and apply it to Transformers. Hasbro gotten the license from Takara to distribute their toys in america and other parts of the world. However, instead of releasing them under the original names Hasbro renamed the line as Transformers. Same like Tonka did with Gobots. However, unlike Gobots, Hasbro was very successful with Transformers.

 

So are you to tell me that Tonka and Bandai once owned Gobot side by side?

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For those to understand this concept better, think Gobots. Gobots is a line that is consisted of Bandai Machine Robo figures, which Tonka had the license and decides to release them as Gobots. Now, take that idea and apply it to Transformers. Hasbro gotten the license from Takara to distribute their toys in america and other parts of the world. However, instead of releasing them under the original names Hasbro renamed the line as Transformers. Same like Tonka did with Gobots. However, unlike Gobots, Hasbro was very successful with Transformers.

 

So are you to tell me that Tonka and Bandai once owned Gobot side by side?

But it isn't the same.

 

Hasbro has creative control with Transformers, and have had that for some years. In most cases (this coming from Hasbro AND Takara staff), Hasbro creates the concepts, and Takara engineers the toys. Starting in 2003, Hasbro allowed Takara to license We've to produce the Armada and Energon cartoon series, and following the poor reception of those series along with other factors, Hasbro basically had to drag Takara to go with the more expensive Gonzo for Cybertron, har

After weak sales with both Energon and Cybertron (so bad Takara didn't release two central show characters for retail), Takara has basically sat back and let Hasbro do most of the work.

Hasbro has helped in getting the live action film produced and new cartoon series from Cartoon Network.

 

Since the end of 2005, all Takara has done has been collector oriented offerings like Kissplay and the Masterpiece lines, along with funky one shots like the Nike and music label figures, hardly a sign of a thriving brand.

 

Basically, the license is more than what you posted, and were it accurate, Takara would have released Classics overseas by this point.

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I think it's a fair assessment, if we are talking about how out of touch a Brand Manger is with fans of that brand. Yes, Classics was a filler, but they should have known that this line would go over very well with the fans and made future post movie plans for the line. And if that's what they planned to do, then why not just tell us?

They did, several times. As is, I'd hardly call a brand manager that launched a miniline of all new molds based on a cartoon and comic series not available to kids not in touch with the fans. Yes, we didn't get a bunch of repaints to complete our G1 characters, we still got some VERY nice figures, and the much valued return of a fan favorite (Bumblebee).

They said they are looking at Classics in the future, but right now, we got another 6+ months of TF movie crap, plus a new cartoon series with ITS toyline. All told, these marketed lines are more important to Hasbro than catering to an older fanbase (which is all what more classics would be at this point). My suspicion is that classics (or a similar concept) will pop up for the 25th celebration in 2009, possibly as a side point to a movie sequel (kinda like how classics were done this year)

 

Which answer was that. The one where they said if sales where good they'd make more? That's a catch-all answer that in my decade plus of collecting Hasbro brands (SW, JOE, and TFs) I've found to be the "Get the fans off our backs answer." It's the equivlant of "We'll see" from your mom when you were little. It wasn't, and never has been a straight Yes or No answer to a fairly simple question.

 

And which line has "all new molds based on a cartoon and comic series not available to kids" ? Only one I can think of is Titanium and that actually falls under the former Galoob's control. I have my doubt Aaraon Archer even has anything to do with it.

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