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Marvel Started Enforcing Copyrights On Customs


Glaken

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Looks like the cottage industry of capitalizing on unmade or poorly made characters in the Marvel Legends universe is coming to a close. Several regular ebay sellers of customs are having all the Marvel licensed characters pulled from ebay and given form letters from marvel through ebay that they are in violation of Marvel copyrights and they won't be allowed to sell products based on Marvel properties. I know a lot of folks have been making a lot of money from customs but it looks like they will have to find other ways to market them more subtly than before.

 

It's no secret that Customs are on ebay and Marvel has been watching those for a long time. When they made their own toys, they really didn't worry too much about it because it didn't really hurt them that much and they were only accountable to themselves. Now that they've sold the rights to produce toys to another company, when other people start selling toys based on those same properties, no matter how few they sell or how many, that's violating a contract they've signed with another company and they risk retalliation from Hasbro if they don't do something to prevent the violations. They of course are going to go after the big sellers that have repeatedly sold on ebay first, then they'll start going after others. I'm sure this is due to pressure from Hasbro NOT from them just deciding they were tired of it. ToyBiz used customs as an unofficial gauge of what characters were popular and who to make next, Hasbro sees it as infringing on the contract they've signed with Marvel and cutting in on their profits. Since they paid big bucks for the license they are going to enforce the contract, which means making Marvel inforce their copyrights. Unfortunately, real world situations suck.

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I have to say that I'm not surprised by this, and I'm not sure if I disagree with it, either.

 

I'm a big fan of customizing, and have done it myself. I'm amazed at the talent of some of the guys at the leading edge of this artform, like this forum's Jin Saotome.

 

However, there's no getting around the fact that selling a custom-made figure of a trademarked character is copyright infringement. Many believe that it's"no big deal", and in the grand scheme of things, it probably isn't. But I think they'd feel differently if it were their copyright (meaning "their dollars") being infringed.

 

It's a delicate issue. On the one hand, most customizers are probably buying copious amounts of figures, so they're big customers, presumably deserving of a break.

 

On the other hand...if a company "looks the other way" on small transgressions like selling custom figures, a legal precedent has now been set whereby it may become difficult to prosecute increasing degrees of more serious copyright infringement...the "slippery slope" argument.

 

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

BTW...perhaps TOY-BIZ's handling of this situation, as described, was poor. After all...they did lose the license.

 

 

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No surprise at all and Marvel should have done it before this. I love a lot of the custom work I have seen here and other forums, but it's infringement and nobody can deny that. Besides, people can still make as many customs as they want...just can't sell 'em (on Ebay at least).

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When did Hasbro announce this? Is it on their website?

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Hasbro hasn't officially announced it, there's been several ebay customizers on other sites post copies of the cease & desist orders they've received from Marvel, through ebay. It's not just one or 2 but apparently they are working through several a day. From what I can get through certain channels, it's for real and it's not going away any time soon. Hasbro's not officially the one doing it, they are forcing Marvel to enforce the contracts they agreed to so it's MARVEL legal doing the dirty work, not Hasbro. (kind of like a mob hit, real bad guy keeps his hands clean)

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Sucks, but it was gonna happen.

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Just because I've had a little experience with battling "Big Business", here are my ideas:

 

1. Name changes really work, City of Heroes found a loop hole so can we

2. Start selling via the item #s not with the images

3. Use PM to sell the items

4. List them as artwork...not custom pieces

5. Sell directly from your website

6. Give as many credits to the creators as possible

7. Offer to find a middle ground, (I.E paying US currency for the fodder pieces!)

8. Cloak and Dagger is an espionage tactic, not just a pair of troubled teens

9. Get smarter than the obstacle

10. Let Hasbro know we will not be moved!!!

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Wow! That's some news!! So custom one of a kind action figurse are illegal, yet you have comic book artists creating prints/posters of licensed characters who make color print runs of about 500+ that usually sell at conventions and websites? What's the difference? I highly doubt a customizer will create a run of 50 customs of one figure, for example a custom Professor X in his Jim Lee hover chair or even the ultra rare never released to the public variants of Luke Cage and Psylocke. It still puzzles me when I go to conventions on how artists can get away w/ selling prints of licensed characters like Spiderman, Batman, and the X-Men. I know they put all the fine print that they belong to Marvel or DC and that they created those prints for "educational" or "for portfolio use" only, but the bottom line is, the artist is making money off these characters. I've seen prints range from $20 to $100, depending on the material it was printed on and the print run number. I'm not trying to narc on artists in general, but I see it as no different than when a customizer makes only ONE custom of a figure and it sells for $100 or something and that's it. It's not like the customizers have access to the molds or a factory in China to mass produce a custom. We're talking about regular people who BUY the figures companies like Toybiz and Hasbro put out, add some modeling clay and paint, then sell it.

 

I don't know. I think it's messed up. What about those people that create characters out of other materials like soda/beer cans, copper, or other stuff like that? I don't see George Lucas going ape sh** on these guys at conventions who created Stormtroopers fabricated out of metal.

 

I've been reading in other forums about how Lockheed Martin, an aero space company, has also been cracking down on 3D artists and concept artists in using their design work from planes to create prints and 3D models.

 

Anyhow, sorry to hear all this legal crap. Good luck to all the DOPE customizers. Keep up the GREAT work and practicing your craft, don't let this kill your talent!!!!!

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1. Name changes really work, City of Heroes found a loop hole so can we

 

Actually, that can work......but only to a degree. The combination of copyrighted/trademarked names and appearances is what's getting these folks the cease and desist letters. Its harder to prosecute a $50 custom of Wolverine if he's not actually called "Wolverine".

 

2. Start selling via the item #s not with the images

That can work.

 

3. Use PM to sell the items

That can work.

 

4. List them as artwork...not custom pieces

That will not work. The trademarks are protected regardless of medium, so listing it as artwork makes no difference. It could be a drawing or a sculpt and it would considered the same kind of thing.

 

5. Sell directly from your website

This will not work. It actually makes the infringement easier to prosecute.

 

6. Give as many credits to the creators as possible

The creators of the characters? No, that will not work. What MIGHT work better is just listing them as a "Jin Santome Custom Piece #1" for example...emphasizing that its the WORK of the customizer being sold and not the trademarked character. Its only a SLIGHT technical distinction though and it would require a court battle to establish if it holds. But it creates enough of a question that it could be used as a selling point to the customizers advantage.

 

7. Offer to find a middle ground, (I.E paying US currency for the fodder pieces!)
Won't make a difference. Infringement is still infringement--technically even if its given away for free.

 

9. Get smarter than the obstacle
Nice advice, but in the end...its pointless advice. Infringment is just that.......the license/right-holder's privilege has been infringed upon and they are seeking to protect those rights. Coyright/trademark infringement is technically theft, and as such gains the protection of law. Providing customs on a steady basis as a cottage business WILL gain the attention of law, and the rightholders, and they are entitled by law to protect their assets.

It does NOT disallow the customizers from doing their work though, just from using and marketing those licensed characters. If you notice, its only after a given customizer has gained some acclaim and prominence with their work, and after a established period of time providing "product" to customers.

The hobbyists that just do a couple for trades and what not never seem to get called on the carpet for this.

 

Also, one has to consider that the cease and desist letters are just that........letters telling someone to stop. The idea here is simply to scare the infringer from continuing, and often that's all that is needed.

 

10. Let Hasbro know we will not be moved!!!

Actually, its Marvel.

Well, again........as from above, they and Marvel are in their rights to protect their assets.

The same laws they are using against the customizer also protect you and me and our own creations ( in "theory", because the limitations are in the ability to fund a prosecution). If they were to copy and produce stuff based on your characters, you could well prosecute them for it--and very likely win.

 

We cannot cherry-pick the laws we like and don't like, or those that suit us or do not suit us. In this case a hobbyist can skirt under the law for a short time, in a very limited fashion--but trying to make a living at it, or gaining any sizable income will draw the ire of Marvel et al. We just have to respect their right to protect what they own.

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Wow! That's some news!! So custom one of a kind action figurse are illegal, yet you have comic book artists creating prints/posters of licensed characters who make color print runs of about 500+ that usually sell at conventions and websites? What's the difference? I highly doubt a customizer will create a run of 50 customs of one figure, for example a custom Professor X in his Jim Lee hover chair or even the ultra rare never released to the public variants of Luke Cage and Psylocke. It still puzzles me when I go to conventions on how artists can get away w/ selling prints of licensed characters like Spiderman, Batman, and the X-Men. I know they put all the fine print that they belong to Marvel or DC and that they created those prints for "educational" or "for portfolio use" only, but the bottom line is, the artist is making money off these characters. I've seen prints range from $20 to $100, depending on the material it was printed on and the print run number. I'm not trying to narc on artists in general, but I see it as no different than when a customizer makes only ONE custom of a figure and it sells for $100 or something and that's it. It's not like the customizers have access to the molds or a factory in China to mass produce a custom. We're talking about regular people who BUY the figures companies like Toybiz and Hasbro put out, add some modeling clay and paint, then sell it.

 

I don't know. I think it's messed up. What about those people that create characters out of other materials like soda/beer cans, copper, or other stuff like that? I don't see George Lucas going ape sh** on these guys at conventions who created Stormtroopers fabricated out of metal.

 

I've been reading in other forums about how Lockheed Martin, an aero space company, has also been cracking down on 3D artists and concept artists in using their design work from planes to create prints and 3D models.

 

Anyhow, sorry to hear all this legal crap. Good luck to all the DOPE customizers. Keep up the GREAT work and practicing your craft, don't let this kill your talent!!!!!

 

 

well, the legal fine line is the comicbook artists are likely selling the prints and portfolios as "the George Perez portfolio" or the "J. Scott Campbell Sketchbook" or similar, with the emphasis being on their work, not on the characters. Sometimes those folks produce the work under license, acknowledging the copy right of the characters to "clear" them. I know of case where they simply seek and get permission to use the characters because the print run is so low on the work that its not worth the paperwork to process a licensing arrangement with money changing hands.

In those case those, permission was legally sought and granted.....which legitmizes those ventures.

If the customizer is selling a "Deadpool" figure by name, and looks like the Marvel character design, and there's no permission.......then that considered a "stronger" infringment.

I've also heard of a money threshold as well... that if the infringer is seen to have sold items over something around $500-$1000 in value, then they draw attention.

Anything under those amounts usually is seen as petty income and not really worth prosecuting.

So if a customizer does 10 customs at $100 each........they've crossed that threshold.

 

Really the best strategy for do this kind of thing is to NOT call the characters by their trademarked names.

Emphasize the customizer's name and work over the trademarked character, and keep the number and prices of the pieces limited and sporadic. Sell by word of mouth and offer wholly original pieces as well, perhaps even cited "trademarked" pieces as being commissions.

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As to the question about the artists at conventions, another thing that's done alot is, as part of their contract with marvel/DC they work out a license agreement to be able to sell artwork based on the characters from marvel/DC up to a certain quantity or a certain dollar amount and are allowed to make public appearances as an artist representing that company and utilize the copyright/trademarks. Also, if they are going to do a full production run quantity of a print/litho then they have to pay a licensing fee and denote all the copyright information on the print. If you see all the "small print" on a poster, it's gone through Marvel Legal. Those artists aren't breaking the law because they have negotiated the ability to sell these things as part of the contracts they sign with the companies. I don't know of any customizers who've done the same.

 

Also, as a creative "work-around", I posted this on another board:

 

Making a figure and GIVING it to someone as a gift is still legal, if they choose to do "Ultra-Super-Duper-Shipping & handling charges" of $100 then they aren't paying for the figure, just the service of sending the figure to them.

 

Ebay Auction example:

SHIPPING & HANDLING FOR A FREE MARVEL LEGENDS CUSTOM WOLVERINE

 

You are bidding on the Shipping and Handling to receive a FREE Marvel Legends style custom action figure. For your bid I will hand craft a delivery carton to fit said gift and ship it by professional shipping service to your door. Only the finest packing materials and care will go into providing you with this GIFT.

 

Symantics are a wonderful thing.

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Ebay Auction example:

SHIPPING & HANDLING FOR A FREE MARVEL LEGENDS CUSTOM WOLVERINE

 

You are bidding on the Shipping and Handling to receive a FREE Marvel Legends style custom action figure. For your bid I will hand craft a delivery carton to fit said gift and ship it by professional shipping service to your door. Only the finest packing materials and care will go into providing you with this GIFT.

 

Symantics are a wonderful thing.

As I recall, that was done during the first shipping waves of the PS3, and a lot of people got into some seriously hot water doing so, both from Sony and eBay. Also a technique used in scalping tickets online, and while that's different entirely, I know for a fact it lead to a few arrests in my area.

 

I'm actually surprised this is happening with Marvel before Star Wars, especially the way Lucas protects (read: strangleholds) his property. I'm not sure of the backstory, but if you check out the big names of Star Wars custom sellers on eBay, every auction has something to the effect of "we are in no way associated with Lucas Films or Hasbro." I'm assuming something similar to this must have gone down not too long ago, and the SW customs still far outnumbers the ML customs to spring up on the ol' Bay.

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Just because I've had a little experience with battling "Big Business", here are my ideas:

 

1. Name changes really work, City of Heroes found a loop hole so can we

2. Start selling via the item #s not with the images

3. Use PM to sell the items

4. List them as artwork...not custom pieces

5. Sell directly from your website

6. Give as many credits to the creators as possible

7. Offer to find a middle ground, (I.E paying US currency for the fodder pieces!)

8. Cloak and Dagger is an espionage tactic, not just a pair of troubled teens

9. Get smarter than the obstacle

10. Let Hasbro know we will not be moved!!!

 

So let me get this straight...your advice, basically...is to lie???

 

GOOD strategy...those "buffoons" in BIG, BAD BUSINESS will never see through that!

 

@hmmm@

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As to the question about the artists at conventions, another thing that's done alot is, as part of their contract with marvel/DC they work out a license agreement to be able to sell artwork based on the characters from marvel/DC up to a certain quantity or a certain dollar amount and are allowed to make public appearances as an artist representing that company and utilize the copyright/trademarks. Also, if they are going to do a full production run quantity of a print/litho then they have to pay a licensing fee and denote all the copyright information on the print. If you see all the "small print" on a poster, it's gone through Marvel Legal. Those artists aren't breaking the law because they have negotiated the ability to sell these things as part of the contracts they sign with the companies. I don't know of any customizers who've done the same.

 

 

Exactly. My finace's brother is an artist...Brian Rood. You may not know the name, but I gurantee you have seen his work all over the place because he does a lot of work for Marvel (I think the most recent thing was the cover art to the Spidey 3 Sorry game and possibly also Monopoly). Anyway, I got the low-down from him years ago on this because I wondered the same thing. This is why you only see the artists selling cheaper copies of their originals...anything really beyond that has to be cleared w/ Marvel. However, they are allowed to sell the one-of-a-kind original without a problem, as well. Glaken is dead-on here.

 

 

Also, as a creative "work-around", I posted this on another board:

 

Making a figure and GIVING it to someone as a gift is still legal, if they choose to do "Ultra-Super-Duper-Shipping & handling charges" of $100 then they aren't paying for the figure, just the service of sending the figure to them.

 

Ebay Auction example:

SHIPPING & HANDLING FOR A FREE MARVEL LEGENDS CUSTOM WOLVERINE

 

You are bidding on the Shipping and Handling to receive a FREE Marvel Legends style custom action figure. For your bid I will hand craft a delivery carton to fit said gift and ship it by professional shipping service to your door. Only the finest packing materials and care will go into providing you with this GIFT.

 

Symantics are a wonderful thing.

 

This won't work...Ebay has rules against this and this would probably get you caught even faster, lol. Sellers use this to circumvent their Seller fees and they crackdown on this very tightly.

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I saw a guy on eBay about a year ago sell a "Marvel comic with a FREE CUSTOM VENOM legends" or something like that. He said he had gotten heat from Marvel for his customs and this was the workaround.

 

So, if you got a bunch of worthless comics sitting around, you could get by this way.

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Brian Rood's a dope artist! I got one of his Star Wars prints out here from the California Science museum!!! That guy has MAD skills!! If anyone's curious, google his name and his website will come up!!!!

 

As to the question about the artists at conventions, another thing that's done alot is, as part of their contract with marvel/DC they work out a license agreement to be able to sell artwork based on the characters from marvel/DC up to a certain quantity or a certain dollar amount and are allowed to make public appearances as an artist representing that company and utilize the copyright/trademarks. Also, if they are going to do a full production run quantity of a print/litho then they have to pay a licensing fee and denote all the copyright information on the print. If you see all the "small print" on a poster, it's gone through Marvel Legal. Those artists aren't breaking the law because they have negotiated the ability to sell these things as part of the contracts they sign with the companies. I don't know of any customizers who've done the same.

 

 

Exactly. My finace's brother is an artist...Brian Rood. You may not know the name, but I gurantee you have seen his work all over the place because he does a lot of work for Marvel (I think the most recent thing was the cover art to the Spidey 3 Sorry game and possibly also Monopoly). Anyway, I got the low-down from him years ago on this because I wondered the same thing. This is why you only see the artists selling cheaper copies of their originals...anything really beyond that has to be cleared w/ Marvel. However, they are allowed to sell the one-of-a-kind original without a problem, as well. Glaken is dead-on here.

 

 

Also, as a creative "work-around", I posted this on another board:

 

Making a figure and GIVING it to someone as a gift is still legal, if they choose to do "Ultra-Super-Duper-Shipping & handling charges" of $100 then they aren't paying for the figure, just the service of sending the figure to them.

 

Ebay Auction example:

SHIPPING & HANDLING FOR A FREE MARVEL LEGENDS CUSTOM WOLVERINE

 

You are bidding on the Shipping and Handling to receive a FREE Marvel Legends style custom action figure. For your bid I will hand craft a delivery carton to fit said gift and ship it by professional shipping service to your door. Only the finest packing materials and care will go into providing you with this GIFT.

 

Symantics are a wonderful thing.

 

This won't work...Ebay has rules against this and this would probably get you caught even faster, lol. Sellers use this to circumvent their Seller fees and they crackdown on this very tightly.

 

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Brian Rood's a dope artist! I got one of his Star Wars prints out here from the California Science museum!!! That guy has MAD skills!! If anyone's curious, google his name and his website will come up!!!!

 

 

Yeah, he does awesome work. His career is really taking off now. It's amazing, I mean he was scraping by a few years ago and now I hear about stuff he is doing for Marvel, Hasbro, Lucasfilm, etc. and it's really surreal. I didn't go to C4 w/ him (I did for C3) but his print for it is on his website and I think it's even better than the one he did for C3.

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I never knew who he was until I saw his print at the California Science museum out here in LA. It's a really great print and I'm still debating if I should head out to LA tomorrow to have him sign it!!!! I'll have to get it framed soon!!!! Anyhow, that's awesome you will be related to him!!! And that's great he's on his way, he's gonna be a legend!!!! BTW, how did he land work? Through network/contacts or submitting work to companies? I'm kind of in the "literally starving artist" point of one's life, LOL!!!

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I think this is a load of bollocks. Marvel shouldn't have the right to copyright things people make based on their products. They are the ones profiting. I can assume that people who make thses customs buy multiple of a certain figure to make customs. I think it's not fair. It would be like me making something based off the army and then the army goes and copyrights it. It's friggin' bollocks.

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I never knew who he was until I saw his print at the California Science museum out here in LA. It's a really great print and I'm still debating if I should head out to LA tomorrow to have him sign it!!!! I'll have to get it framed soon!!!! Anyhow, that's awesome you will be related to him!!! And that's great he's on his way, he's gonna be a legend!!!! BTW, how did he land work? Through network/contacts or submitting work to companies? I'm kind of in the "literally starving artist" point of one's life, LOL!!!

 

 

Probably the same story as everybody else...he just put his time in. Took any gig he could to get his name out there. Went to all the Cons and tried to make as many contacts as possible. I haven't had a chance to talk to him in a while but I don't think his site even has 1/10 of the stuff he's working on. Everytime my fiancee talks to him she mentions some new project he's working on and it's really odd to go into mass retail stores and see stuff he's worked on right there on the shelves.

 

Keep at it...he struggled for a while but if you keep at it good things will happen.

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Thanks for the info!!! Appreciate it!!! Yea, Brian will be making noise w/ his work definitely!!! Thanks again!

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