Why Carnage???

[GreenLanternPrime]

Thumbs down to Carnage. Remember, Sam Raimi's Spider-man movie philosophy is to have Peter Parker learn something in each film. What was the point in having Dr. Connors in three films and no Lizard? Spider-Man 4= Lizard. I wouldn't mind seeing a movie version of Mysterio. The "Raimi Lesson" could deal with not going by how things look on the surface. This could be a metaphor/parallel with Peter's personal life compared to Spider-Man's battle with the master of illusions.

[SheriffofCoffeeTown]

first of all, he doesnt have decades worth of in-jokes under his belt.

 

He doesn't have anything under his belt. He doesn't have anything, period.

[ARROW]

Using Carnage in the movies is like Wayne's World 2 with the same jokes and gags thoughout--its been done before. That makes it boring.

The character is a symbiote, operates like Venom, looks sort of like Venom...........what's its raison d'etre? We've seen something like it before.

Using a visually different and distinct character, like the Lizard, Kraven, Mysterio, or even the Vulture is a far better hook for a 4th movie than using Carnage.

[scarecr0w13]

heres my hope for spidey 4.....

 

new director and cast (everyone but jjj, aunt may and uncle ben)

 

connors turns into the lizard, kraven comes to hunt the lizard, spidey has to stop connors and save him before kraven hunts them both down. you could even do a "kravens last hunt" type storyline with the lizard instead of vermin.

 

make it a lil darker and less aimed at the 12 year old (batman begins should show them they don't have toaim for children to make money with these films).

 

carnage, maybe down the line, but it has to end with the sentry flying him into space and tearing him apart. i loved that in new avengers and would love to see that enacted.

[ARROW]

connors turns into the lizard, kraven comes to hunt the lizard, spidey has to stop connors and save him before kraven hunts them both down. you could even do a "kravens last hunt" type storyline with the lizard instead of vermin.

Yea, I proposed the very same idea in another thread awhile ago.

Have JJ Jameson finance Kraven to hunt down a transformed Conners, with Spidey interfering, and you've got all the interplay the story needs. Have MJ side with JJ and think that Kraven is the best one to find Conners and you have conflict between her and Peter--instant drama right there.

[scarecr0w13]

connors turns into the lizard, kraven comes to hunt the lizard, spidey has to stop connors and save him before kraven hunts them both down. you could even do a "kravens last hunt" type storyline with the lizard instead of vermin.

Yea, I proposed the very same idea in another thread awhile ago.

Have JJ Jameson finance Kraven to hunt down a transformed Conners, with Spidey interfering, and you've got all the interplay the story needs.

 

hell yeah, that would be great

[shokker]

connors turns into the lizard, kraven comes to hunt the lizard, spidey has to stop connors and save him before kraven hunts them both down. you could even do a "kravens last hunt" type storyline with the lizard instead of vermin.

Yea, I proposed the very same idea in another thread awhile ago.

Have JJ Jameson finance Kraven to hunt down a transformed Conners, with Spidey interfering, and you've got all the interplay the story needs.

 

i love this idea that kraven comes to hunt the lizard and all but i dont realy want jjj to pay him because jjj payed gargan to become the scorpion and if they do a movie sometime with scorpion then this great story will be lost.

[ARROW]

connors turns into the lizard, kraven comes to hunt the lizard, spidey has to stop connors and save him before kraven hunts them both down. you could even do a "kravens last hunt" type storyline with the lizard instead of vermin.

Yea, I proposed the very same idea in another thread awhile ago.

Have JJ Jameson finance Kraven to hunt down a transformed Conners, with Spidey interfering, and you've got all the interplay the story needs.

 

i love this idea that kraven comes to hunt the lizard and all but i dont realy want jjj to pay him because jjj payed gargan to become the scorpion and if they do a movie sometime with scorpion then this great story will be lost.

 

 

But in the comics, or the comic-strip in the newspapers, Jameson was the one that hired Kraven to hunt down Spiderman. Its a logical extension to have him finance the hunt for the Lizard--because the monster would be seen as a dangerous beast to the public at large. Maybe only Peter knows that Conners is the Lizard in this, and the revelation to everyone else is the big climatic plot hinge.

He cannot reveal Conners because doing so would cost Conners his job or something like that...Kraven would just think he's hunting something from the sewers that has kidnapped Conners.

 

Something else can be worked out for the Scorpion ( if he's ever used).

[shokker]

connors turns into the lizard, kraven comes to hunt the lizard, spidey has to stop connors and save him before kraven hunts them both down. you could even do a "kravens last hunt" type storyline with the lizard instead of vermin.

Yea, I proposed the very same idea in another thread awhile ago.

Have JJ Jameson finance Kraven to hunt down a transformed Conners, with Spidey interfering, and you've got all the interplay the story needs.

 

i love this idea that kraven comes to hunt the lizard and all but i dont realy want jjj to pay him because jjj payed gargan to become the scorpion and if they do a movie sometime with scorpion then this great story will be lost.

 

 

But in the comics, or the comic-strip in the newspapers, Jameson was the one that hired Kraven to hunt down Spiderman. Its a logical extension to have him finance the hunt for the Lizard--because the monster would be seen as a dangerous beast to the public at large. Maybe only Peter knows that Conners is the Lizard in this, and the revelation to everyone else is the big climatic plot hinge.

He cannot reveal Conners because doing so would cost Conners his job or something like that...Kraven would just think he's hunting something from the sewers that has kidnapped Conners.

 

Something else can be worked out for the Scorpion ( if he's ever used).

 

yes thats true. jjj hired kraven to hunt spidey.

no one knows if scorpion ever get made but i believe that it would be a better story because scorpions origins come that way. as i remember kraven was already a famous hunter. i think they should do some origin story for kraven and maybe a little hint to his younger brother who is of course chameleon. what i would love to see:

 

the movie begins with some origin stuff maybe kraven and chameleon seperated at birth and then years later you see what one of the babys has become. kraven the greatest hunter of the world. he comes to new york because he loves the animal side of it. kraven wants to hunt spidey. in the middle the transformation of connors to lizard. during a fight with lizard, kraven comes and sees in lizard a bigger trophy then with spidey. a lot of battles and all. at the end spidey knows about connors and keeps the secret for himself. possible ending for a 5 movie can be: what has become with the other baby or what does connors still do with that other piece of symbiote or eddie comes back with some fotos of connors becomig lizard. by the way i think peter and mj should move in together. i would love somthing like that.

[GreysonMcKirkland]

Kraven. Lizard, Hobgoblin, (since the Green Goblin wasn't done right) Vulture. Heck. I wouldn't even mind seeing Spidey take on a Micheal Clarke Duncan Kingpin (for continuity sakes) For some reason I always liked Spidey taking on Kingpin. Just wondering why so many people want to see him......instead of other great villians.

 

first of all, he doesnt have decades worth of in-jokes under his belt. second, he's just cool. you don't have to know anything about him to think he's cool. his design is cool. plus with all the other crap getting in under PG-13 ratings, a serial killler wont do much. besides, the novelization gave a perfect way to re-inrtoduce the symbiote: it ate eddie's remains. they could make it so cletus was one of the nearest people, and the symbiote clung onto him, and bam! we got a villain. someone needs to hire me...

 

that said, i think it's too soon for him. it was too soon for venom. the7y dhould wait until at least SM5 for carnage.

 

and how was green goblin done wrong?

 

They're only making Carnage cause Marvel is cheap and they're going to use the same Venom technology.

 

 

Eitherway Spiderman 2 and 3 were TERRIBLE in public opinion. In 4 I'm sure Carnage can be seen teaching at American University...

 

 

The Lizard would be cool. Instead of spending 1 billion to make a movie 75% of that should go toward protecting endangered species.... Like lizards.

 

 

Lizard in #4 = cool.

[GreysonMcKirkland]

Kraven. Lizard, Hobgoblin, (since the Green Goblin wasn't done right) Vulture. Heck. I wouldn't even mind seeing Spidey take on a Micheal Clarke Duncan Kingpin (for continuity sakes) For some reason I always liked Spidey taking on Kingpin. Just wondering why so many people want to see him......instead of other great villians.

 

first of all, he doesnt have decades worth of in-jokes under his belt. second, he's just cool. you don't have to know anything about him to think he's cool. his design is cool. plus with all the other crap getting in under PG-13 ratings, a serial killler wont do much. besides, the novelization gave a perfect way to re-inrtoduce the symbiote: it ate eddie's remains. they could make it so cletus was one of the nearest people, and the symbiote clung onto him, and bam! we got a villain. someone needs to hire me...

 

that said, i think it's too soon for him. it was too soon for venom. the7y dhould wait until at least SM5 for carnage.

 

and how was green goblin done wrong?

 

 

HOW WAS THE GREEN GOBLIN DONE WRONG? THE GREEN GOBLIN WAS SEEN HAVING TEA AND CRIMPETS WITH PETER PARKER! THAT'S HOW!

[ARES-god_of_war]

I wanna see the animal aspect of Spidey to get prominence. Puma, Black Cat, Rhino, Scorpion, Lizard and Vulture. It would set the stage for the eventual Sinister Six movie. Add a subplot featuring venom advancing and becoming more villainous, maybe locked up on the Raft, with Cletus?

[LegendsCollector07]

Does anyone remember Venom vs. Carnage? How about they introduce carange and put in Toxin and Spidey as the heroes? That would never happen but it sure would be cool three symbiotes on the big screen.

[BigBearJahlon]

Great idea Scarecrow, I like how you make the plot excititng but simple.

 

I also wouldn't mind a Rhino, Vulture, or Scorpion as new villains for the Spectacular Peter Parker to do battle with.

[kenba]

heres my hope for spidey 4.....

 

new director and cast (everyone but jjj, aunt may and uncle ben)

 

connors turns into the lizard, kraven comes to hunt the lizard, spidey has to stop connors and save him before kraven hunts them both down. you could even do a "kravens last hunt" type storyline with the lizard instead of vermin.

 

make it a lil darker and less aimed at the 12 year old (batman begins should show them they don't have toaim for children to make money with these films).

 

carnage, maybe down the line, but it has to end with the sentry flying him into space and tearing him apart. i loved that in new avengers and would love to see that enacted.

 

 

i thought of this too, and there's a way we can introduce rhino in this as well..... have spidey try to stop rhino's rampage, but only to have kraven succeed where spidey couldn't. this would give kraven credence as a well-known hunter (in the ultimate comics he has a steve irwin-style reality show), and cast him as a hero to the public and causing jjj to hire him leading to the plot described above.

[RobbieDigital]

Also, why does every character have to be fleshed out and the main focus of the movie.......we could have a Spidey 4 opening with him trying to stop the Rhino from destroying the city.......he takes out the Rhino eventually and then we could move into the movie......but how cool would that be for the movie to open with an action sequence like that??? I don't know why it can't be done.

[ARROW]

Also, why does every character have to be fleshed out and the main focus of the movie.......we could have a Spidey 4 opening with him trying to stop the Rhino from destroying the city.......he takes out the Rhino eventually and then we could move into the movie......but how cool would that be for the movie to open with an action sequence like that??? I don't know why it can't be done.

 

For the reason that anything that sparks visual interest with the audience also tends to spark emotional interest, and deserves (or demands) story points to support it.

 

A good example of what you are talking about: The arbitrary deaths of Hicks and Newt in the opening of Alien 3--characters that the audience had an emotional investment in from the previous movie, but who were callously dispensed with in the most unemotional of manners. That set up a suspension of the rapport needed to have the audience care about the goings on from that point on.

Having Rhino just come in and fight Spiderman, without knowing anything about him, where he comes from, who he is or even WHY Spiderman is fighting him renders that beat in the story pointless.

If its pointless, why include it?

However, having Spiderman fight some non-descript bank robbers CAN be a valid starting point, simply because the robbers are NOT distinct characters, and thus lacking interest. The focus of the beat is on Spiderman doing something that, more than likely, would be some kind of set-up for a later story-point. Generic bank robbers simply function as foils, or ciphers to launch other more important elements.

A character like Rhino is too interesting and distinct on many other levels to be used in that manner.

[ARROW]

Here's the big problem with Carnage and all the other Venom spin-off characters:

 

They are redundant.

 

Think about it: how do they work visually? What they are as a characters is unimportant because that just tacked on stuff for the visual component. Carnage operates the same way, visually, as the Venom symbiote does.

We'd have to show the symbiote envelop someone--same as it did with Eddie Brock. It'd show the scary eyes and distended jaw........same as Venom. It'd show it attacking with clawed hands or tendrils , just like Venom.

Its the SAME thing as Venom, with only variations on motivation. It's visual component operates the same as Venom--it looks very similar to Venom, its something Spiderman fights in the same manner as Venom), and it , in fact, comes from Venom.

 

 

And we already got a BADLY handled Venom character in Spiderman 3.

 

Why "re-visit" a character that shares all those redundant qualities?

 

There's far stronger arguments for characters like Mysterio, or the Lizard, or even Scorpion of Rhino being the main villains in another movie followup.