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General_Hawk
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Don't know why I'm rising to the bait....

 

Well, my argument against the Flint figure is that he just looks scrawny. Looking at the card art and the original figures, it just appears that Flint is more muscular than Duke. Duke looks wirey, while Flint looks buff. Do I think that Flint deserves a whole new mold? No. But he does deserve some more new parts than what he got. A new upper chest and arms(or maybe the arms from Storm Shadow even) would of done it, and I think I would have had no complaints.

 

Storm Shadow V2 and Snake Eyes V2, along with Flint, trouble me. They just slapped on some different chest gear, a new head and a different paint job and bang, they call it a new figure. Its like they didn't even look at what different parts they had and try to come up with something better, or at least something that doesn't look like chase variants of the same figure.

 

Didn't say "sux", and half-assed describes the 3 I have a problem with to a T. At least with DTC, they tried. I have no problem with them reusing parts. But if your going to do it, do it with some style and imagination.

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Kinda makes a guy feel all warm and fuzzy inside. ^_^

 

 

 

 

 

 

BUT....

 

 

 

I can take it! ;)

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Not liking the scalper-friendly, ninja heavy case ratio...though I suspect they will revise this like with Star Wars cases.

 

Preorder at Entertainment Earth

 

The G.I. Joe 25th Anniversary Action Figures Wave 1 includes 8 individually packaged action figure, including: 2x Storm Shadow, 3x Snake Eyes with Wolf, 1x Cobra Officer, 1x Cobra Commander (Hood), 1x Flint. (Subject to change).

 

So intially, expect to see Storm Shadow and maybe Snake-Eyes.

 

Still IMHO, no case asst. with a cobra troop should ever contain only one.

 

8 figures a case seems pretty small, too.

 

 

Hey did anyone notice that Entertainment Earth states they will be out in May, where the 5 packs are not supposed to be coming out until June. I hope the figure ratio and the dates are typos. This is very concerning.

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It's a 25th anniversary SPECIAL edition, and expectations are HIGH! Remakes of the characters, in their original appearances, UPDATED with NEW articulation and detail.

but the Flint figure actually encompasses that criteria -- character remake in original appearance with updated, new articulation -- so what's the problem?

 

Would it be silly to say...

 

IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF THE MATTER? @lol@

 

I imagine it would be, but nevertheless, it still bugs me that they went this route in order to give us a new, updated Flint, without going that weeeee little extra on him, and using a new mold, even though the technical aspect of the shirt and pants thing is valid, they went the extra effort on the original version, I'd have thought they would do the same NOW?

 

Short sleeves would have been a nice touch too, a grin maybe, although I have no complaints about the head sculpt (as it appears on the Hasbro site) they made for him. Don't like the idea that a mere repainting of Dukes khaki's, to match Flints khaki's and adding different belts or straps to them, is "good enough" or "looks alright".

 

25 figures and right out of the gate, we get repaints and 2nd versions of 3 characters, with one of the main characters getting a hand-me-down, that being Flint. This is alarming to some of us, and disappointing.

whoa, what repaints? a repaint is a figure that is repainted in its entirty, without any different body parts. as far as I know, the only repaint is the Cobra Officer, which I have yet to see anyone complain about. are you now complaining about the Cobra Officer figure, or intentionally misrepresenting the other figures -- V2 SE's and SS, Flint and Hooded Cobra Commander -- none of which can be classified as merely "repaints"

 

My feeling on the V2's of SE, SS and CC is that it's the fact that they're included at ALL in this 25 limit (as we know of so far) and not so much the issue of same body parts. CC is actually correct and right in LINE with what they did the first time around ANYWAY. Replace the helmet with the hood and paint him a darker Blue. BING a BANG a BOOM! Same for this round of him. SE and SS...maybe a little grievance there, as it's just a different head on'em and the original V2's were much MORE varied than THAT, but again...I wouldn't have wanted the V2's to have been included at all, if it's just 25, so I'm in contempt of them already.

 

The Trooper and Officer? Like CC, it's just the way it was originally, with what, a Silver Cobra symbol instead of Red? Different Gun? It's works just fine for a trooper figure, besides they're one of my favorites of the bunch shown so far. That being said though, for a 25 list, I'd have skipped one or the other instead of including bOTH, but that's assuming the 25 is just 25.

 

Flint basically got f@#ked. They made a new head and painted Dukes khakis to match. If they make a General Hawk, will it be Dukes khakis again, with a removable Ike Jacket and new head?

 

"GOOD ENOUGH!!"

 

of course, that is because your position is an emotional one, not a logical one, which is why I think key details are missed, because you aren't interested in making a sound point, merely communicating your feelings, which aren't logical. that is why they are feelings, not logic. and that is fine. you should be congratulated for you ability to communicate your feelings as well as you do without coming across as simply hysterical (most of the time @smilepunch@), unlike most emotionally driven people.

 

I believe I've already admitted to having "emotionally" driven opinions on these toys. I'm certainly not into them for any professional reason or financial security. I've sometimes had to deal with people who don't understand my interest in them, view them as just toys for children and question my own maturity for clinging onto my childhood.

 

I'm secure enough to handle these naysayers against my personal interests and I'm pretty secure enough to handle the attacks on me here, when I seem to be the one making complaints and harsh criticisms. In the end, I'm one of you guys, just with different takes on the same things we ALL love.

 

oops! LOVE?? Is that an emotional attachment? @smilepunch@

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obiwanjacoby, please stop trying to use logic to reason with the naysayers. You'll never convince them. Some people just love to complain, no matter how nice a figure looks.

 

Fact is, even if Flint had an all-new mold, he couldn't look much better than the version we're getting.

 

There's nothing wrong with Hasbro resuing parts, if they make it work. They did in this case. In fact, the entire first wave of individual figures looks great...even if they are repaints. The addition of new heads and accessories really make the difference on these figures. So what if a minor detail is different than the RAH original? Is that really worth complaining about? This is especially odd about the Airborne badge on Flint, since he graduated Airborne School which should entitle him to wear it.

 

What's really funny is so many people on this board will complain about whatever is shown by Hasbro. Then they'll buy it when it comes out and say how much they like the figures. Or they'll complain no matter what. I bet if Hasbro made figures based directly on some posters thoughts for what the figures should be, they'd still complain. They'd complain just to complain.

 

I honestly can't comprehend the desire to complain about such nice-looking figures. I really can't. I just can't figure it out.

 

In case you missed it....THE FIGURES LOOK FINE. Well done, Hasbro! (like they still come on these boards...why would they?). Keep up the good work. The only downside to this line is the wait for them to hit retail.

 

 

Naysayers? What do you mean? I'm confused...what are we "naysaying"?

 

 

You seem unaware of the first rule of fandom: Complain about it.

 

But I digress.

 

This isn't JUST about Flint. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow suck.

 

I don't understand how hard it is to grasp a concept (no offense intended).

 

The first 10 are spot on accurate to their RAH versions, but with a more "updated" look.

 

Why cannot the rest have the same "quality"? Why cannot Snake Eyes 2, Storm Shadow 2 and Flint get spot on accurate to their RAH version, well versions?

 

Another argument that people ignore is that, if the are doing, shall we say "sub-par" figures THIS early, what does that say about the remaining 10? And, yes I'm aware that these 3 could, potentially be the ONLY...sub-par figures. The other 10 could, potentially have all new molds for each figure. But THAT is highly unlikely, as obviously if they couldn't do it for these three, WHY would the do it for the rest?

 

And the last argument people chose to ignore is that NOBODY (that I am aware of) is against repeats and repaints. Just WHY this early? If they want to get Snake Eyes as a single, well, put him as a single. Why does it have to be a half-ass "version 2"? Just slap version 1 in a single and there ya go! It appears that, within the first 25 (presuming more, of course), we will get 2 multis and 3 "waves" of singles. Is Hasbro afraid that not having a "popular" character like Snake Eyes more than once in those waves going to doom the line?

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I see some of the flaws in the body design that come from making them this way (such as the way the legs never seem to connect to the body in a way that looks natural).

 

Now this is a reasonable reply! You have something other than "sux" to back up your opinion. This was all I was asking, but no one seemed to want to cut & past a statement I might have missed, or send me to a relavant post. That's all I wanted.

 

Now the real discussion can begin!

 

The problem is now the conflict between a fan accepting a pair of "monkey armed" Twins, as CT called them, and the "unnatural leg connections" of the 25th figures.

 

Why accept the one and criticize the other?

 

Well. . .that's what I'd say if I cared to pursue it that far, but I don't. I'm letting CT off the hook. I asked and he gave a valid statement. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Who's next?

 

-PJ

 

I would like to say you sir, have become one of my fav posters in the short amount of time you have been posting. You and gsbr are of rare breed on TNI....people that can look at things LOGICALLY and OBJECTIVELY, there isnt much of that to go around here, its usally just fanboy nostaligia and vague, unattainable personal whims ad nauseum, with no logical thought process. If I had the time to post, my comments would be 100% in line with what you guys have said. Flint looks fine, and so does the rest of the line. Whether flint is ICONIC and "deserves" his own mold, is purely subjective and a personal choice.

 

I could give a rat's behind about flint, I never liked him in the cartoon, and wont be picking him up. These complaints remind me of the "ZOMG Master Collector is screwing over TF fans for recoloring classics" thread in the TF forum.....some people can never remove themselves and look at the bigger picture of what is good for business, they only see what they THINK they are entitled to...they can never accept that their narrow view isnt necessarily the best one, and that there is an entire child demographic and other collectors that matter also.

 

Depending on the toyline, it ususally amounts to "ZOMG I want encapsulate 1982-87 EXACTLY AS IT WAS and pay the same prices for them! Anything less is SCREWING the FANS THAT SUPPORTED THEM" .....nevermind that the 2.99-3.99 a joe cost in 1982 is like 7-9 bucks now! Even is they did straight rereleases of 1982-87 and charged 6.99 it would be "ZOMG HASBRO CHARGES TOO MUCH! They cost 3 bucks 20 years ago!They ALREADY HAD THE MOLDS!!!WE are getting SCREWED!!!!!!!!!"

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Justification? What sort of "evidence" do you need for that?

 

Oh, so you agree that there's nothing backing your opinion other than you think "they suck," is that it?

 

 

Um, what?
Really trying not to talk over your head here. . .

 

25th Storm Shadow resembles RAH Storm Shadow as close as they can get (with a somewhat "updated" feel). Same for Roadblock, Baroness, Destro, Cobra Commander, Duke, Cobra, Scarlett, and Gung-Ho. (Snake Eyes version 1 was so bland they HAD to add detail). Flint, Snake Eyes 2 and Storm Shadow 2 do not look anything like their RAH versions. Why?

 

Did you read what Gunslinger wrote? Your separations are totally arbitrary. You got Storm Shadow v1. "as close as they can get (with a somewhat 'updated' feel)," then you justify SE v.1 as actually needing more detail, and then you sweepingly state that Flint, SE v.2, and Stormy v.2 as not looking anything like their RAH versions. Colors, overall artistic design, costumes, etc. all resemble their 80s designs by the upper 90% rate.

 

Is Flint missing his beret? No? Well then he's looks something like his ARAH version, toppling your exaggerrative statement right out of the gate. Is his khaki shirt black? CHECK. How's his hair color? Pants design? Gloves? CHECKCHECKCHECK. He's even got a green shotgun.

 

And VH says Hasbro screwed him. :rolleyes:

 

The "ideal" Flint? Give me a break. The "ideal" Flint would resemble RAH Flint....the same way the OTHER TEN DO. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? Same for the SE/SS 2s.
Then you're arguing for visible rivets in the shoulders, less articulation, and less paint masks. . .right? Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

 

-PJ

 

 

I like the way you twist what people say and not say anything at all. Your a master!

 

I asked YOU what "evidence" you would like for VH to "justify" his position. Why should I provide you an answer when YOU don't even know what the question is? Or that last point about the "visible rivets" and crap. HILLARIOUS! #US1# @loll@ I...think your smarter than that. Don't be a jerk.

 

 

I asked you to "justify" your "position" as you deemed VH must do and you respond with "I've have a paper trail in this thread...". That does not answer my question. You obviously think I'm an idiot or something, so spell it out for me.

 

And what we are "hiding" ? #WTF# What does THAT mean?

 

What's to hide that you haven't ignored because there isn't anything to argue or twist?

 

I have already stated my view on the subject.

 

Can you explain why it is "acceptable" that the first 9 (not including Snake Eyes, you had me at stupid there, I admit) are accurate to their RAH versions, but the next 5 need not be? Why cannot Flint, Snake Eyes 2 and Storm Shadow 2 NOT resemble their RAH counterparts the same way the others do? Gung-Ho is accurate. Flint is "close enough". Why is that okay?

 

My position is that there is no reason for their to be any mold reuses or character reuses AT THIS TIME. Given the special nature of this line, it isn't necessary at this point. Save them for 2008. Notice I'm NOT arguing they SHOULDN'T use them. I would just like to see appropriate uses. like Ninja Viper or Stalker.

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I would like to say you sir, have become one of my fav posters in the short amount of time you have been posting. You and gsbr are of rare breed on TNI....people that can look at things LOGICALLY and OBJECTIVELY, there isnt much of that to go around here, its usally just fanboy nostaligia and vague, unattainable personal whims ad nauseum, with no logical thought process. If I had the time to post, my comments would be 100% in line with what you guys have said. Flint looks fine, and so does the rest of the line. Whether flint is ICONIC and "deserves" his own mold, is purely subjective and a personal choice.

 

I could give a rat's behind about flint, I never liked him in the cartoon, and wont be picking him up. These complaints remind me of the "ZOMG Master Collector is screwing over TF fans for recoloring classics" thread in the TF forum.....some people can never remove themselves and look at the bigger picture of what is good for business, they only see what they THINK they are entitled to...they can never accept that their narrow view isnt necessarily the best one, and that there is an entire child demographic and other collectors that matter also.

 

Depending on the toyline, it ususally amounts to "ZOMG I want encapsulate 1982-87 EXACTLY AS IT WAS and pay the same prices for them! Anything less is SCREWING the FANS THAT SUPPORTED THEM" .....nevermind that the 2.99-3.99 a joe cost in 1982 is like 7-9 bucks now! Even is they did straight rereleases of 1982-87 and charged 6.99 it would be "ZOMG HASBRO CHARGES TOO MUCH! They cost 3 bucks 20 years ago!They ALREADY HAD THE MOLDS!!!WE are getting SCREWED!!!!!!!!!"

 

Thank god I just bought these..

 

highbootsna1.png

 

it's gettin' DEEP!

 

 

 

@lol@

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I would like to say you sir, have become one of my fav posters in the short amount of time you have been posting. You and gsbr are of rare breed on TNI....people that can look at things LOGICALLY and OBJECTIVELY, there isnt much of that to go around here, its usally just fanboy nostaligia and vague, unattainable personal whims ad nauseum, with no logical thought process. If I had the time to post, my comments would be 100% in line with what you guys have said. Flint looks fine, and so does the rest of the line. Whether flint is ICONIC and "deserves" his own mold, is purely subjective and a personal choice.

 

I could give a rat's behind about flint, I never liked him in the cartoon, and wont be picking him up. These complaints remind me of the "ZOMG Master Collector is screwing over TF fans for recoloring classics" thread in the TF forum.....some people can never remove themselves and look at the bigger picture of what is good for business, they only see what they THINK they are entitled to...they can never accept that their narrow view isnt necessarily the best one, and that there is an entire child demographic and other collectors that matter also.

 

Depending on the toyline, it ususally amounts to "ZOMG I want encapsulate 1982-87 EXACTLY AS IT WAS and pay the same prices for them! Anything less is SCREWING the FANS THAT SUPPORTED THEM" .....nevermind that the 2.99-3.99 a joe cost in 1982 is like 7-9 bucks now! Even is they did straight rereleases of 1982-87 and charged 6.99 it would be "ZOMG HASBRO CHARGES TOO MUCH! They cost 3 bucks 20 years ago!They ALREADY HAD THE MOLDS!!!WE are getting SCREWED!!!!!!!!!"

 

Thank god I just bought these..

 

highbootsna1.png

 

it's gettin' DEEP!

 

 

 

@lol@

 

 

@loll@ @loll@ @loll@ @loll@ @loll@

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Hey..

 

Ya know, it's not EXACTLY off topic, because it involves FLINT, but in a good way.

 

I came across my old MOD SQUAD custom of him and Stalker!

 

fc3b2672.jpg

 

 

^_^

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Hey..

 

Ya know, it's not EXACTLY off topic, because it involves FLINT, but in a good way.

 

I came across my old MOD SQUAD custom of him and Stalker!

 

fc3b2672.jpg

 

 

^_^

 

OMG Flint doesn't have shotgun shells!!!! @smilepunch@

 

Sorry couldn't resist. Had to try and lighten up the room a bit. This thing is getting way out of control.

 

@pow@ Now everyone behave. Throw away your freedom of speech! Conform or shut up!

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The "ideal" Flint? Give me a break. The "ideal" Flint would resemble RAH Flint....the same way the OTHER TEN DO. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? Same for the SE/SS 2s.

I am willing to be that if you identified how many ways the Flint figure deviates from the v1 RAH figure and compare it to how many ways the Snake Eyes, Duke or Storm Shadow figures deviate from their v1 RAH counterparts, you will find that they all lack about the same many intricacies as each other, so the first ten aren't any more identical to the new figures than the "reuses."

 

I don't think you understand. 25th SS looks just like RAH SS version 1. 25th SS 2 does not (look like RAH SS version 2). It is irrelevant how many different versions of a character came out over the years or the fact that most of them do not resemble each other in any way. The fact of the matter is that they made the first 10 figures of the 25th anniversary line resemble SPECFIC RAH versions (ie. they resemble the RAH version 1 versions of the particular characters). So why not for the next 5. Why not have them resembles THEIR specific RAH version counterparts?

 

I don't think even someone as outspoken as Viper Hunter is arguing completely against the reuse of molds. I think (or at least *I* think, and we seem to be in relative agreement on the subject) that repeats and repaints can wait for 2008.

so you are saying you would be okay with Flint if he came out next year, but don't like him because he came out this year? now the quality of a figure is dependent upon when it is released?

 

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying I don't particularly like Flint, et al. not because they came out this year but because they did not get unique molds like the others. If the possibilty existed that, had those figures come out in 2008 and gotten their own molds, yes I would have preferred to wait until then to get them.

 

Let me ask you, do you think it is possible they "rushed" it to fill the slots and said "close enough" on the figures rather than designing them better OR including figures that would work better with the molds they have? For example, Stalker would have fit the Snake Eyes mold perfectly. Why not go that route instead of putting Flint in the Duke mold that doesn't quite work as well?

 

 

I mean what if, just for sake of argument, the line WAS capped at 25? Would you rather have a bunch of repaints and repeats? Or 25 unique individual figures that represent their iconic forms from RAH?

poor argument. whether someone would prefer, in a perfect world, all new sculpts doesn't in any way mean a figure made from reused parts can't eb good -- which is what VH's position, which you seem to be supporting, is.

 

My argument is, well, related. Back with RAH the reused parts ALL the time, but very rarely did they just use the whole body (the only figures I can think of are Sky Patrol). Most often, the frankensteined, with some figures sharing parts with up to 6 other figures (though, typically it was 3). So, why could they not do that here?

 

You know, I don't even know what I'm arguing about. Maybe these things really DO suck. We only have a handful of crappy pictures to go off of anyway. Whose to know until you get them in hand? I just do not see why ALL the figures, the first 25, cannot get their own unique molds and save the body reuse and character repeats for 2008. Simple as that. Not much point in debating it further since I nobody as yet will answer my question on the subject and as my own view on the situation won't CHANGE the situation. I think it is just that guys like that 'obiwan' guy just like pushing people's buttons and he's good at it so it can sometimes be easy to get defensive.

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Hey..

 

Ya know, it's not EXACTLY off topic, because it involves FLINT, but in a good way.

 

I came across my old MOD SQUAD custom of him and Stalker!

 

fc3b2672.jpg

 

 

^_^

 

OMG Flint doesn't have shotgun shells!!!! @smilepunch@

 

 

Here's some irony...

 

Guess whose ARMS I used???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Night Force Duke image from yojoe!

 

 

 

@loll@

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The "ideal" Flint? Give me a break. The "ideal" Flint would resemble RAH Flint....the same way the OTHER TEN DO. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? Same for the SE/SS 2s.

I am willing to be that if you identified how many ways the Flint figure deviates from the v1 RAH figure and compare it to how many ways the Snake Eyes, Duke or Storm Shadow figures deviate from their v1 RAH counterparts, you will find that they all lack about the same many intricacies as each other, so the first ten aren't any more identical to the new figures than the "reuses."

 

I don't think you understand. 25th SS looks just like RAH SS version 1. 25th SS 2 does not (look like RAH SS version 2). It is irrelevant how many different versions of a character came out over the years or the fact that most of them do not resemble each other in any way. The fact of the matter is that they made the first 10 figures of the 25th anniversary line resemble SPECFIC RAH versions (ie. they resemble the RAH version 1 versions of the particular characters). So why not for the next 5. Why not have them resembles THEIR specific RAH version counterparts?

I never mentioned anything about how many versions of a character were made. I said, look at the 25th anniversary molds of the figures they were created for (Duke, V1, SE's and SS), then look at the reused figures (Flint, V2 SS and SE's) and you will see that the molds lack many details from both figures, so lacking details can't be your argument. I don't know what figures you are looking at, but the "resued" characters look just as much like their RAH counterparts as the original figures the molds were created for. that is why your position is faulty, it applies to the figures you are okay with, so if missing details is that important, you shouldn't like any of the figures for that reason, including 25th v1 SE, SS and Duke.

 

You don't like reusing parts. that's cool, you're entitled to that opinion and is irrefutable. you don't like certain figures because they lack certain details, that isn't an opinion anymore, it is a position, and a position is not irrefutable, and it is that faulty position that is being debated, not your opinion.

 

Let me ask you, do you think it is possible they "rushed" it to fill the slots and said "close enough" on the figures rather than designing them better OR including figures that would work better with the molds they have? For example, Stalker would have fit the Snake Eyes mold perfectly. Why not go that route instead of putting Flint in the Duke mold that doesn't quite work as well?

I don't doubt that at all. there is no question after the positive response Hasbro got from the first ten figures that they decided they wante dto get 5 more figures out on the shelves as quickly as possible, and only hd time to create minimal new parts (heads and accessories) while they sculpted new figures to be released later on. that practice and reason isn't in question, it is the results of that practice. and as afar as I can see, he results are fine. like I said, the "reuse" figures are just as accurate to their RAH counterparts as the characters the molds were originally created for. for example:

 

25th Duke is missing the holster strap on his leg -- which the RAH figure has -- and has a pocket on the front of his leg pant -- which the RAH doesn't. two missing details. now, RAH Flint does have pockets on the front of his legs -- just like 25th Flint and Duke -- and doesn't have a pistol strap on the leg. The 25th Duke legs are actually more accurate RAH Flint legs than Duke legs. so how is the use of legs tha are acually more accurate for Flint somehow bad for Flint simply because we originally saw them for Duke. that is simply arbitrary.

 

sure, the torso has wings and the sleeves are too long for Flint -- two details that deviate from the original Flint, but that means both figures have the same amount of differences from their RAH counterparts, yet you claim Duke is "spot on" despite two sculpt differences, and yet Flint is not for the same amount. you see the flaw in your argument.

 

that is my point. you don't have a legitimate position when you claim detail discrepencies as the reason for not liking the reuse figures yet applaud the original intended characters which have just as many detail discrepencies. that is what is being debated, not your opinion about disliking reusing the parts.

 

You know, I don't even know what I'm arguing about. Maybe these things really DO suck. We only have a handful of crappy pictures to go off of anyway. Whose to know until you get them in hand? I just do not see why ALL the figures, the first 25, cannot get their own unique molds and save the body reuse and character repeats for 2008. Simple as that. Not much point in debating it further since I nobody as yet will answer my question on the subject and as my own view on the situation won't CHANGE the situation. I think it is just that guys like that 'obiwan' guy just like pushing people's buttons and he's good at it so it can sometimes be easy to get defensive.

because most people don't care if parts are reused, even entire figures, if the result is satisfactory. as I have shown, the results of the reused figures are just as accurate as the characters the molds were originally created for.

 

why can't they get their own molds? because it isn't neccessary to do to create accurate figures. perhaps you need to answer the question why new molds need to be created for characters when existing molds can be used just as accurately, and by accurately I mean missing some details but getting the overall look right -- just like 25th v1 SE, SS and Duke, which are misisng many details form their RAH figures but which are close enough to be considered "spot on" by you. if mising details makes them spot on, then it makes the reuse figures spot on as well.

 

and no, these characters "deserve" their own molds is not a logical position, it is an emotional one. these are just inanimate pieces of plastic, and pieces of plastic do not deserve anything.

 

now, you are entitled to your opinion, and can prefer that certain characters have their own molds, but it is ridiculous to expect Hasbro to make rational business decisions based on how you "feel" about characters, and then ask why when you want an emotional result to a rational practice.

 

why can't they make new molds or why haven't they? it doesn't matter, that is why, and it is a legitimate answer. the problem is that it doesn't make you feel good. Besides, nobody has said they can't make new molds, so that isn't even a question that needs to be answered and is irrelevent. sure, Hasbro could make new molds if they prefered or felt they needed to, but they simply haven't. the evaluation of reusing figure molds revolves around the fact that they haven't and the results of such, not whether they can't. I'm not sure why knowing why Hasbro reused molds would have any effect on how you evaluate a figure. I judge a figure based on how it looks, not economic reasons why it looks that way. I am not going to like a figure more knowing that Hasbro had to reuse a particular part if I don't like the reused part makes the figure look. why they can or can't make new figure molds is absolutely irrelevant to the results of whether they have or have not.

 

like or don't like the figures. that is cool with me. but if you are going to present a flawed argument for why you don't, I am going to debate it. I am not trying to get you to like the figures, I am simply presenting the flaw in your argument and how it is irrational because of that.

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like or don't like the figures. that is cool with me. but if you are going to present a flawed argument for why you don't, I am going to debate it. I am not trying to get you to like the figures, I am simply presenting the flaw in your argument and how it is irrational because of that.

 

Sometimes these debates, over our opinions and the pointing out of each others flawed arguments, can go a little over the top, don't you think?

 

This particular topic is a good indicater of that, as I've never seen so much pyscho babble, irrational POINT making, made against somebodies disliking of an action figure. I didn't notice too much of this being done towards anyone in particular who LIKED it, which would be pointless and rude, but the pointless rude attitudes being shown towards the so-called "naysayers" has gotten out of hand.

 

This crap wouldn't go on as long if it were just that, members attacking other members for liking Flint, when they (the complainer) can clearly see the flaw in him and you're irrational, stupid, or evil if you don't see it as well.

 

Making fun of toys is one thing, defending those toys is one thing, but the ridiculous comments made personally towards people who hold an opposing viewpoint is quite another.

 

What's the issue really.....Flint looks fine to you, and you're not going to stand for anybody that suggests they don't think he's just fine as well? You're going to insult their opinion, find the flaw in it, dissect their answers and twist them into something MORE irrational or sinister than just what it is...they wanted a NEW mold for him, despite the excuses being thrown out by the self proclaimed experts on Hasbros BITNESS side of things? We think Hasbro could have done better and financed an all new mold for him.

 

I even went as far as to ADMIT that I likely have a more emotionally charged connection to these toys and state opinions based off of that, than anything to do with the deeper logic behind WHY they get made the way their made, or released the way they are and so on. Set myself right up for some sort of ridicule for admitting to it, when it's likely the same for about everybody here. Who the hell collects G.I.Joe toys for logically reasons?

 

Problem is, I've taken heed to some of these BITNESS excuses in the past, and it ended up being a bunch of bullsh@#, so a HARD skepticism has developed over time towards these types of Hasbro shills, excusing all the large or small issues as being something within the master plan, be patient, just wait, it's coming, next time, wait and see, had to be done...blah blah blah!

 

Hell, I was doing all THAT, throughout T-crotchs, Joe vs. Cobra, Spy Troops, Venom vs. Valor, DTC, Sigma Six and what did it get me......Flint in Dukes body mold? <_<

 

You don't like reusing parts. that's cool, you're entitled to that opinion and is irrefutable. you don't like certain figures because they lack certain details, that isn't an opinion anymore, it is a position, and a position is not irrefutable, and it is that faulty position that is being debated, not your opinion.

 

That doesn't make any sense. If we don't like Flint because they reused a mold, the entire Duke mold, the reason is likely going to be because if lacks some details now, that the Duke mold didn't possess.

 

How can half of that opinion be ok but not the other? I would assert that you (and a few others) are just wanting to argue with the folks who are complaining, and that is all.

 

I've got plenty of freinds in this hobby, on this site, and we don't always agree on the same things, as far as what's cool and what's not (Bitness practices aside, our opinion of the final product is all that counts, all that we have any control over anyway) but we respect each others opinions and can even debate them and have some fun with it, poking a little fun at each others likes or dislikes, insulting toys and not each other.

 

The flint figure is DONE...this is what it IS, it won't change or go away all of a sudden becuase some fans disliked it. This wasn't a conducted VOTE amongst the fandom, seeking a yay or nay to preceed forwrd as planned or scrap it. Some folks need to stop acting as though it was, and stop feeling threatened by negative opinions.

 

If somebody claims you're a moron for liking it, or not SEEING the flaws as clearly as they do, then fire away at'em, they're asking for it. I've not seen this done in this entire debate. I've seen just the opposite, members losing their ever lovin' MINDS because somebody doesn't think Flint is AWESOME, well done or "good enough".

 

 

#US1#

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You seem unaware of the first rule of fandom: Complain about it.

 

I'd like to see where that's written in the bylaws. . . @hmmm@

 

This isn't JUST about Flint. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow suck.

 

I don't understand how hard it is to grasp a concept (no offense intended).

 

The first 10 are spot on accurate to their RAH versions, but with a more "updated" look.

You're reduced to repeating yourself in the wake of new info. When responding to this, please don't play naive. You're propagandizing your side again.

 

Another argument that people ignore is that, if the are doing, shall we say "sub-par" figures THIS early, what does that say about the remaining 10? And, yes I'm aware that these 3 could, potentially be the ONLY...sub-par figures. The other 10 could, potentially have all new molds for each figure. But THAT is highly unlikely, as obviously if they couldn't do it for these three, WHY would the do it for the rest?

 

This also was already dealt with. Figures are only sub-par as far as your irrationally impossible personal standards, which include your arbitrary "rules" that include no repaints or re-utilization of any body part within a certain manditory time period. You have crossed the line from mere opinion to dictating "rule" as here and at the top.

 

And the last argument people chose to ignore is that NOBODY (that I am aware of) is against repeats and repaints.

 

:spit-take: @eyerise@ Excuse me? Wonder if I have the stamina to cut & paste all the quotes. The main argument actually is against repeats and repaints because we can only assume for now that there's only a 25 figure limit!!! Are you even reading the other posts?!??

 

-PJ

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I like the way you twist what people say and not say anything at all. Your a master!

 

I asked YOU what "evidence" you would like for VH to "justify" his position. Why should I provide you an answer when YOU don't even know what the question is? Or that last point about the "visible rivets" and crap. HILLARIOUS! #US1# @loll@ I...think your smarter than that. Don't be a jerk.

 

 

I asked you to "justify" your "position" as you deemed VH must do and you respond with "I've have a paper trail in this thread...". That does not answer my question. You obviously think I'm an idiot or something, so spell it out for me.

 

Done and done. I can't spoon-feed it to you; I can't make you look at the posts.

 

Well, eventually I guess I will have to resort to quoting myself, because one of the online debate tactics I can't fight back against is the "I can't see it, therefore you didn't say it" defense.

 

-PJ

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I'm so glad that VH takes the time to respond to some of the longer tirades on this thread. Its saved me a lot of typing.

 

I think the original point of the thread was lost awhile ago and its degenerated into pissing match barely concealed under a thin veneer of civility.

 

I'm not going to go through a point/counterpoint of peoples opinions on this thread as lets face it. Its gone on long enough already and no ones going to change their mind. We are all entitled to our opinions, just agree to disagree.

 

Suffice to say, I'm still with VH. #US1#

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My question is that since we all know the current thought in toy making is that there has to be certain characters that are always available, where does that put Hasbro after the current 25 figures? We have two Cobra Commanders, Snake Eyes and Storm Shadows in the first 25. If the line does well, are we going to see 1987 Cobra Commander & 1991 Storm Shadow long before we see other classic figures from the 1982-1986 part of the line? Will we see Shadow Ninja Snake-Eyes before Doc and Quick Kick? Will they recreate Snow Job's mold and then call it Frostbite?

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Guest McBragg
I think the original point of the thread was lost awhile ago and its degenerated into pissing match barely concealed under a thin veneer of civility.
Welcome to action figure/toy collecting. If anyone were mature, they wouldn't be here. @hmmm@

 

 

We are all entitled to our opinions, just agree to disagree.

 

Internet arguing rules: The first person to say that is the loser. @smilepunch@

 

And no one reasonably expects to change anyone's mind. Do they?

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Sometimes these debates, over our opinions and the pointing out of each others flawed arguments, can go a little over the top, don't you think?

 

This particular topic is a good indicater of that, as I've never seen so much pyscho babble, irrational POINT making, made against somebodies disliking of an action figure. I didn't notice too much of this being done towards anyone in particular who LIKED it, which would be pointless and rude, but the pointless rude attitudes being shown towards the so-called "naysayers" has gotten out of hand.

 

"A-hem" According to whose standard? What if some of us thought that your agenda-driven repetition has gotten out of hand? Would it be fair to say it's the same on both sides?

 

What's the issue really.....Flint looks fine to you, and you're not going to stand for anybody that suggests they don't think he's just fine as well? You're going to insult their opinion, find the flaw in it, dissect their answers and twist them into something MORE irrational or sinister than just what it is...they wanted a NEW mold for him, despite the excuses being thrown out by the self proclaimed experts on Hasbros BITNESS side of things?

Well, as they say, "When in Rome. . ." If you can spend countless pages of text to it, so can we. This got out of hand long before I got here. You say you're just stating your opinion. Okay. But I noticed you state that opinion far more repetitively than anyone else. Your "from-the-stump" posting is a hard-sell meant to campaign a knee-jerk luddite hatred against Hasbro. That much is quite clear.

 

As Pesatyel said, the #1 rule is to criticise. ORLY?

 

Have you ever once stopped to think that criticism is sometimes "criticism just for its own sake?" It's one thing for Joebagodonuts Joe Collector to state his take on a new figure two or three times, but for VH, Pesa, and the rest of the gang, it's the criticism itself that is the true hobby. The posts and their monotonous frequency speak for themselves.

 

When you "state your case" as a tool for being the loudest majority to cover up your minority status, then it does become political. The goal is to advertise one agenda the loudest and the longest; the toys come dead last.

 

Who the hell collects G.I.Joe toys for logically reasons?

 

True, we are arguing an aesthetic which is purely subjective. And since we all understand that, why is there this tiny handful of old men in the art gallery coming in day in and day out to blast 2 or 3 particular pieces? And the same pieces at that. The drum-beating alone provokes others to wonder what their true motives are, because they sure are grabbing an inordinate amount of time and bandwidth to merely "share their opinion," while others are content with much less.

 

So the question is, "Why must Viper Hunter be heard so much more often than other posters?" We can't simply change the channel, because when the subject comes up, he's on every channel. So in the end, a fair, civil, objective, and opposing view needs to be there.

 

Problem is, I've taken heed to some of these BITNESS excuses in the past, and it ended up being a bunch of bullsh@#, so a HARD skepticism has developed over time towards these types of Hasbro shills, excusing all the large or small issues as being something within the master plan, be patient, just wait, it's coming, next time, wait and see, had to be done...blah blah blah!

 

Still diverting VH? Your opponents have evolved their tactics.

 

That doesn't make any sense. If we don't like Flint because they reused a mold, the entire Duke mold, the reason is likely going to be because if lacks some details now, that the Duke mold didn't possess.

 

How can half of that opinion be ok but not the other? I would assert that you (and a few others) are just wanting to argue with the folks who are complaining, and that is all.

Well, you were close to a "light bulb moment" when you said it doesn't make any sense. Why? Because They didn't re-use the entire Duke mold. You have a case for torso and legs; that's still not 100%. You're stretching the truth to suit your anti-Hasbro agenda.

 

I've got plenty of freinds in this hobby, on this site, and we don't always agree on the same things, as far as what's cool and what's not (Bitness practices aside, our opinion of the final product is all that counts, all that we have any control over anyway) but we respect each others opinions and can even debate them and have some fun with it, poking a little fun at each others likes or dislikes, insulting toys and not each other.

 

The flint figure is DONE...this is what it IS, it won't change or go away all of a sudden becuase some fans disliked it. This wasn't a conducted VOTE amongst the fandom, seeking a yay or nay to preceed forwrd as planned or scrap it. Some folks need to stop acting as though it was, and stop feeling threatened by negative opinions.

 

Then why do you campaign as though this really were a vote amongst the fandom? Why are your negative opinions repeated so hard and so extensively as if you worked for the Mattel company or something?

 

-PJ

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We are all entitled to our opinions, just agree to disagree.

 

Internet arguing rules: The first person to say that is the loser. @smilepunch@

 

 

 

 

Well that would have been me, on the last page, I think.

 

I'm done with this post. It's no longer talking about the information that General Hawk was nice enough to get for us. It's become a venue for people to trash other people's opinions by nitpicking every sentence of their post. Well, pick away at this one here, because I'm done with it. I've said I'm not blown away by these figures. Many of my reasons are similar if not exactly like VH's. Some of my reasons are my own, which I have also stated. I'll go on record as being the loser by saying I agree to disagree, and hope everyone has a nice day.

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ditto!

 

My apologies to Justin (General Hawk) however, for slaughtering his topic. Fortunately I made it clear early on, that it's not pointed at him, when I complain about the issues I bring up, and it's not aimed at him, if I complain about some of the reasons or excuses that some believe to be legit, in why Hasbro makes these decisions, even if it's one he supports, it's still not directed towards him. It's only in General.

 

I'm guilty of Hasbro bashing, this is true. They'll make some money off of me regardless, because I'm a G.I.Joe whore, and I know that doesn't entitle me to jack shiza, but in the end, it's just my opinion, and me ranting (or whining) because I didn't get want I want, the way I wanted it.

 

#US1#

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