Jump to content

A little bit of info...


General_Hawk
 Share

Recommended Posts

What were we arguing again? Flint's black khaki shirt vs. Duke's khaki shirt, right? That's what all this amounts to? #WTF# VH and others are saying that. . .instead of more removable accessories, they want them molded on or something? WHAT? What exactly are you guys complaining about? Yeah, I saw the little comparison pic shopped up; didn't see the point of it then either.

 

And if we're arguing reused torsos, this goes double for Cobra Officer and Trooper's torsos. . .right?

 

-PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 125
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

What were we arguing again? Flint's black khaki shirt vs. Duke's khaki shirt, right? That's what all this amonts to? #WTF#

 

Sorry you think it so lame an argument.

 

I think it has more to do with the ENTIRE Duke mold being used for Flint, but if it's just khaki shirts, then I must not have a valid gripe afterall.

 

 

VH and others are saying that. . .instead of more removable accessories, they want them molded on or something? WHAT? What exactly are you guys complaining about? Yeah, I saw the little comparison pic shopped up; didn't see the point of it then either.
.

.

Actually, I'm saying I don't want the removable accessories to be the main thing that Hasbro is using to distinguish between the main characters uniforms, like with Flint and Duke. These aren't your 12" dress up dolls, never have been and shouldn't be now. The scale is wrong for it.

 

 

And if we're arguing reused torsos, this goes double for Cobra Officer and Trooper's torsos. . .right?

 

 

Wrong! For one thing, it's not JUST Dukes torso that was used, it was the entire body. The other thing you're wrong on, is the Cobra officer/Soldier analogy.

 

There's been some argument that the two need'nt be included in the 25 set, as just ONE or the OTHER would have been sufficient, seeing how it's only 25, and another Cobra included might have been BETTER, however, I like the figure and having a Soldier and Officer is fine by me, as they're the best of the bunch as far as I'm concerned. That being said however, the original versions were basically the same body mold already, so doing it AGAIN, for this special set is no big deal, like what I'm trying to get across it is, for doing it for Flint by using Dukes mold.

 

Maybe a little different, ya think? :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry you think it so lame an argument.

 

Words in my mouth; I'm just looking for a case to be made here.

 

I think it has more to do with the ENTIRE Duke mold being used for Flint, but if it's just khaki shirts, then I must not have a valid gripe afterall.
So you're arguing pockets. . .and a jump pin? C'mon let's itemize this.

 

Actually, I'm saying I don't want the removable accessories to be the main thing that Hasbro is using to distinguish between the main characters uniforms, like with Flint and Duke. These aren't your 12" dress up dolls, never have been and shouldn't be now. The scale is wrong for it.

 

I agree. But these are in the end standardized uniforms no matter how the Joes mix and match. I don't see the case for making a stink about it unless Duke is wearing say. . .spandex shorts.

 

You see it as Hasbro forcing a smaller version of the "dress up doll" (negative).

 

I see it as adding more "snap-on, stay-on" accessories (positive).

 

Wrong! For one thing, it's not JUST Dukes torso that was used, it was the entire body. The other thing you're wrong on, is the Cobra officer/Soldier analogy.
"Wrong" x 2? How? Help me out. What I'm saying is, "Why not the entire body?" Sure, it's cheap. But I don't see the reason to go to war over it, seeing as you get 95-99% the same overall design as the original figure.

 

There's been some argument that the two need'nt be included in the 25 set, as just ONE or the OTHER would have been sufficient, seeing how it's only 25, and another Cobra included might have been BETTER, however, I like the figure and having a Soldier and Officer is fine by me, as they're the best of the bunch as far as I'm concerned. That being said however, the original versions were basically the same body mold already, so doing it AGAIN, for this special set is no big deal, like what I'm trying to get across it is, for doing it for Flint by using Dukes mold.

 

Maybe a little different, ya think? :rolleyes:

 

I don't see it. We're talking degrees of difference, IMO. I'm not going to throw up the whole tooling costs jive, I just want a case to be made that states why Flint deserves his own special custom khaki shirt and pants. And Flint's my fave Joe of them ALL, I got alot of personal childhood invested in that one. I think he's near-perfect.

 

Now, his jump pin I guess you could make a case for, but it's no biggie if they're both master jumpers, right?

 

But in the end, Flint and Duke's uniforms are what. . .95-99% the same without the pins and extra gear?

 

-PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guees my whole point is this.

 

If this were a Batman figure we were arguing, it would be one side is demanding the Bob Kane version when we're getting the Neal Adams version. I mean geez, think of all the little artistic details that character has had changed on him: Symbols, belts, cape, ears, boots, the whole bit.

 

He's still Batman. Sure, the puritanical "Comic Book Guys" of the world out there would object, but I hope the Joe community hasn't been reduced to this level yet.

 

As for the 25th Joe collection, Flint is so very much more the same "Flint" than he was in '85. Of course, these are pieces of standard military clothing, and not superhero costumes; so to argue those points would be even more extremely nitpicky.

 

Because what I think is being pushed is a superhero aesthetic on pieces of mixed standard fatigues. :wacko:

 

-PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry you think it so lame an argument.

 

Words in my mouth; I'm just looking for a case to be made here.

 

Really?

 

What were we arguing again? Flint's black khaki shirt vs. Duke's khaki shirt, right? That's what all this amonts to? #WTF#
Seems like you can't understand the argument (case) that's being made already, to the extent of adding the #WTF#? Wouldn't be a stretch to assume you find it all fairly "lame" then..right?

 

I think it has more to do with the ENTIRE Duke mold being used for Flint, but if it's just khaki shirts, then I must not have a valid gripe afterall.
So you're arguing pockets. . .and a jump pin? C'mon let's itemize this.

 

I like Flint. I wanted him to have the same attention to details as what was given the others, not just Dukes body, because it looks close enough already.

 

Citing samples of Hasbros reuse of body parts throughout the 80's line, doesn't really make the case for them doing it NOW, for this special set, that's likely NOT just the first set in a long lineup of them.

 

It's only 25...make'em GREAT!

 

What if they used the same body mold for Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow? Both are ninjas, and have had so many versions of them made, that they've probably shared body parts at some point anyway. Would that be "good enough"? One's in all White and the other all Black.

 

That'd save even MORE money on tooling I bet. Hasbro could drag these sets out for another 3-4 with that kind of cost cutting maneuvers? :rolleyes:

 

these are in the end standardized uniforms no matter how the Joes mix and match. I don't see the case for making a stink about it unless Duke is wearing say. . .spandex shorts.
.

.

"Standardized uniforms"? I know the '82 lineup was pretty "standardized"...

 

joesro1.png

 

 

Are we going back to that practice, only with Dukes uniform now? If so, then I want to see Grunt, Breaker, Zap, Flash, Rock-n-Roll and the others, and all in their "standard" uniforms like they were originally, hell...even use the same head for the ones that had the same head before. I thought Hasbro made some great advances since that '82 year, but hell I'll take'em if they make'em.

 

By the time Duke, Flint and the more POPULAR characters came around, they were pumping out almost all original molds for'em. Too bad that didn't work for'em. :(

 

 

You see it as Hasbro forcing a smaller version of the "dress up doll" (negative).

 

I see it as adding more "snap-on, stay-on" accessories (positive).

 

My glass is half empty!

 

That's a good thing though, because ya see..

 

I'm thirsty, and if my glass is half empty, that means my thirst is half quenched and soon I'll be able to get a refill.

 

^_^

 

So a snap on belt or backpack is all YOU need to separate a Duke from a Flint?

 

I admire your imagination!

 

What I'm saying is, "Why not the entire body?" Sure, it's cheap. But I don't see the reason to go to war over it seeing as you get 95-99% the same overall design as the original figure.

 

It's not "war". I'm as adamant about my feelings on the issue, as are those that continue to defend it. I make pretty thorough points on it, and I think it's cheap and that there is NO excuse for it. It sucks and it's a big disappointment for me and a few others apparently.

 

I'm not going to throw up the whole tooling costs jive, I just want a case to be made that states why Flint deserves his own special custom khaki shirt and pants. And Flint's my fave Joe of them ALL, I got alot of personal childhood invested in that one. I think he's near-perfect.

 

Now, his jump pin I guess you could make a case for, but it's no biggie if they're both master jumpers, right?

 

But in the end, Flint and Duke's uniforms are what. . .95-99% the same without the pins and extra gear?

 

-PJ

 

If you're happy with it, that's great! You've got something to be excited about, and to look forward to getting.

 

Maybe they should have shown FLINT first, and then DUKE, and we could be arguing about how cheap it was of Hasbro to give DUKE...FLINTS body!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really?

 

Ya, Rly.

 

I'm saying you could push me to your side if you give a convincing enough argument.

 

Wouldn't be a stretch to assume you find it all fairly "lame" then..right?
Yes. Because I really mean what I say. This debate has gone three whole threads now, and I'm asking what the big deal is. It's too vague for me to grasp. Seriously.

 

I think it has more to do with the ENTIRE Duke mold being used for Flint, but if it's just khaki shirts, then I must not have a valid gripe afterall.

 

But you're not going anywhere with it. You oppose Hasbro re-using the Duke mold (pre-paint and pre-accessory, mind you) because. . .why?

 

-PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like Flint. I wanted him to have the same attention to details as what was given the others, not just Dukes body, because it looks close enough already.
See above. I repeat, these are standard uniforms we're talking. You saying you wanted Flint to be taller, shorter, fatter, skinnier. . .??? You're not elaborating enough.

 

It's only 25...make'em GREAT!

 

Are you assuming that's the absolute limit?

 

What if they used the same body mold for Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow? Both are ninjas, and have had so many versions of them made, that they've probably shared body parts at some point anyway. Would that be "good enough"? One's in all White and the other all Black.
Okay. . .um, because one is wearing a traditional ninja uniform? That's my point. You're welcome to come up with an alternate example though.

 

"Standardized uniforms"? I know the '82 lineup was pretty "standardized"...

 

Oopsie. @lol@ I'm saying in the sense of standardized real-world-uniforms. You get a stock khaki Army Officer's shirt, then it'll be the same throughout the US Army. I'm saying you're missing the fact that even though Hasbro missed your personal level of standard detail (whatever that is, you still won't specify), they still get a pass for staying within realism. It's that attention to realism that I think Bozigian and Co, would appreciate. Flint and Duke have the same shirt, only Flint's is his trademark black. No biggie; no foul. And as for the rest. . .pants is pants.

 

Did you give credit for the gloves at least?

 

My glass is half empty!

 

That's a good thing though, because ya see..

 

I'm thirsty, and if my glass is half empty, that means my thirst is half quenched and soon I'll be able to get a refill.

 

^_^

I know Hasbro plastic runs through your veins and all, but this is ridiculous. >_<

 

So a snap on belt or backpack is all YOU need to separate a Duke from a Flint?

 

Yep, and I don't lose any sleep over it. EDIT: Apart from heads and gloves and trademark beret and weapons, of course. But you're not arguing that.

 

I admire your imagination!
What's to imagine? These are as realistic as the uniforms get. My wife used to be a seamstress at a military surplus, she's trying to figure out what your point is as well.

 

Duke: I'll take that shirt

 

Flint: Same here, but make mine black.

 

It's not "war". I'm as adamant about my feelings on the issue, as are those that continue to defend it. I make pretty thorough points on it,

 

Still waiting.

 

If you're happy with it, that's great! You've got something to be excited about, and to look forward to getting.

 

Maybe they should have shown FLINT first, and then DUKE, and we could be arguing about how cheap it was of Hasbro to give DUKE...FLINTS body!

 

@lol@ Good one!

 

-PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What were we arguing again? Flint's black khaki shirt vs. Duke's khaki shirt, right? That's what all this amonts to? #WTF# VH and others are saying that. . .instead of more removable accessories, they want them molded on or something? WHAT? What exactly are you guys complaining about? Yeah, I saw the little comparison pic shopped up; didn't see the point of it then either.

 

And if we're arguing reused torsos, this goes double for Cobra Officer and Trooper's torsos. . .right?

 

-PJ

 

 

The complaint is that the first 10 we saw were spot on perfectly accurate for each of the character's RAH versions 1s.

 

Then we get the singles and NONE of them are. Did they spend SO much money on the first 10 the couldn't afford more than a half-ass job on the rest? I do not understand WHY Flint, Snake Eyes 2 and Storm Shadow 2 CANNOT have molds that are just as spot on perfectly accurate to each of their RAH versions.

 

As I've said before, I don't think any have a problem with repeats and repaints in and of themselves. But they aren't being handled right. Snake Eyes would work just fine as Stalker, Hawk, Breaker and Grunt. Storm Shadow would work as Sie-tin and Ninja Viper. Hell, Gung-Ho could probably be used as Road Pig (presuming the jacket is removable) or Monkeywrench.

 

I really see no need for repeats THIS early anyway. At least not half-assed ones. If they think people want to buy Snake Eyes as a single because they can't afford or don't want the others in the 5-pack, well what ABOUT the others in the 5-pack? The only way to get Roadblock or Destro? That would suck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What were we arguing again? Flint's black khaki shirt vs. Duke's khaki shirt, right? That's what all this amonts to? #WTF# VH and others are saying that. . .instead of more removable accessories, they want them molded on or something? WHAT? What exactly are you guys complaining about? Yeah, I saw the little comparison pic shopped up; didn't see the point of it then either.

 

And if we're arguing reused torsos, this goes double for Cobra Officer and Trooper's torsos. . .right?

 

-PJ

 

 

The complaint is that the first 10 we saw were spot on perfectly accurate for each of the character's RAH versions 1s.

no, they aren't. nearly each one is missing nmerous details from the v1 counterpart. are Flint's sleeves a little lower than the original any different that Scarlett missing her wrist gun? how can one be spot on missing a tiny detail and the other not? tak a look at the first ten, none of them are any more significantly spot on than the repaints

 

if that is the argument against the reused parts, it is even weaker than I thought. I think you need to take another look at the images of the first 10 figures. they are nearly accurate, but not "spot on perfectly accurate" by any stretch of the imagination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd rather have a respectable all NEW Flint mold and no Serpentor at all.

 

 

Seconded.

 

Third!

 

Draven

 

Fourth!

 

Hell I can imagine plenty more popular and/or useful characters.

 

I can imagine better uses for Duke's parts if they wanted to use them over again to save money.

 

That being said I think the legs work really well for Flint. That's one part reuse I don't mind. Don't mind the gun reuse either. Those both look fine to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, my argument against the Flint figure is that he just looks scrawny. Looking at the card art and the original figures, it just appears that Flint is more muscular than Duke. Duke looks wirey, while Flint looks buff. Do I think that Flint deserves a whole new mold? No. But he does deserve some more new parts than what he got. A new upper chest and arms(or maybe the arms from Storm Shadow even) would of done it, and I think I would have had no complaints.

 

Storm Shadow V2 and Snake Eyes V2, along with Flint, trouble me. They just slapped on some different chest gear, a new head and a different paint job and bang, they call it a new figure. Its like they didn't even look at what different parts they had and try to come up with something better, or at least something that doesn't look like chase variants of the same figure.

 

I wouldn't want a new Flint figure over a Serpentor. The question is, if we do get a Serpentor figure, will it be all new, or just another half-assed repaint with a new head and slightly different gear?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The complaint is that the first 10 we saw were spot on perfectly accurate for each of the character's RAH versions 1s.

 

Okay, "perfectly accurate" as in. . .

 

- matching the original 80s card art?

 

- matching the original 80s preproduction design specs?

 

- matching the toon's cel animation?

 

- matching the comic art?

 

- matching the original 80s molds?

 

WHICH ideal reflects your definition of "perfectly accurate?" Perfectly accurate to. . .what?

 

If you're arguing the last point, then are you saying you wanted less detail then? Monochrome eyes and limited paint masks? Is that what you wanted?

 

Then we get the singles and NONE of them are.
They are to me. In the case of Storm Shadow v.2 it's just extra added detail to me. It doesn't detract from the overall look.

 

Did they spend SO much money on the first 10 the couldn't afford more than a half-ass job on the rest?

 

What's so half-assed? Really? You're making it out like they're re-using the Duke mold for everybody.

 

I do not understand WHY Flint, Snake Eyes 2 and Storm Shadow 2 CANNOT have molds that are just as spot on perfectly accurate to each of their RAH versions.
FLINT: You're arguing pants and a shirt, that's all.

 

SE v.2: Did you say the same about SE v.23? I say they can have some creative leeway.

 

Storm Shadow v.2: You might have a case in regards to the embroidery on the collar, that's it.

 

Are you saying that Storm Shadow's arm-wrappings must be wound exactly 17 1/2 times around his forearm?

Are you saying Flint must absolutely have a lob-sided grin?

Are you saying SE must have exactly six slits in his visor and no more than three colors?

 

no, they aren't. nearly each one is missing nmerous details from the v1 counterpart. are Flint's sleeves a little lower than the original any different that Scarlett missing her wrist gun? how can one be spot on missing a tiny detail and the other not? tak a look at the first ten, none of them are any more significantly spot on than the repaints

 

Correct! Which details are the ones that matter the most, and which ones can we let slide?

 

The length of a sleeve? Yes, of course.

 

Scarlett's wrist gun or slingshot? No, I'd take issue with it, but it still doesn't detract from her character to make a dramatic difference.

 

if that is the argument against the reused parts, it is even weaker than I thought. I think you need to take another look at the images of the first 10 figures. they are nearly accurate, but not "spot on perfectly accurate" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Correct. Destro's head isn't chromed for one thing, Scarlett has long hair, and Flint's not smirking. These are the things we've learned to be flexible about.

 

. . .

 

 

This whole dispute is about certain fans who say that artists can have ZERO amount of artistic license and at the same time must reproduce a character based on no concrete fixed ideal. Doesn't look the least bit fair to me.@grumpy@

 

This isn't Michelangelo's David. Give the artist some breathing room. These figures would do Herb Trimpe or Rod Whigham's interps of the characters proud, so that's fantastic for me.

 

-PJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest McBragg

Why does everyone think Serpentor is coming?

 

I just want to see if these figures are worth a spit at all. Never mind character choices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd rather have a respectable all NEW Flint mold and no Serpentor at all.

 

 

Seconded.

 

screw flint @firedevil@

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd rather have a respectable all NEW Flint mold and no Serpentor at all.

 

 

Seconded.

 

Third!

 

Draven

 

Fourth!

 

Hell I can imagine plenty more popular and/or useful characters.

 

 

You can all hate all you want, but Serpy is a lot more popular then any of you give him credit for

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm saying you could push me to your side if you give a convincing enough argument.

 

I'm not really trying to sway anybody elses opinions of these figures....to "my side". What would I have to gain by doing that?

 

You won't see me ripping into somebody for liking them even when I don't. That's childish. Nor will I jump down somebody's throat for disagreeing (respectfully, or teasingly) with my negative opinions on them, as that's perfectly fine. Lots of folks will merely state that they think they're just fine and can't wait to get them.

 

Do I throw a fit, and question their intelligence by having a DIFFERENT take on them than myself?

 

No..I merely stick to my guns and keep firing away at the issues I don't agree with or have a hard time accepting as some kind of excuse for what I deem to be a cheap shortcut.

 

It's really all just a personal matter anyway, something more to do with our emotional attachments to these toys (silly as it may sound) and not a matter of convincing the jury, that our position is right and the others are wrong.

 

I think it has more to do with the ENTIRE Duke mold being used for Flint, but if it's just khaki shirts, then I must not have a valid gripe afterall.

 

But you're not going anywhere with it. You oppose Hasbro re-using the Duke mold (pre-paint and pre-accessory, mind you) because. . .why?

 

:unsure: huh?

 

I've posted novels on the "whys"...so much so, that others are bemoaning the fact that I CONTINUE to express the SAME opinions on the SAME subject matter, to the point of nausea! @lol@

 

I think Hasbro is perfectly capable of providing each and every figure in this 25th anniversary lineup, with their OWN unique mold. It's a pretty special occasion afterall, and seeing how they've paid homage to the characters original appearances, I was expecting better for all the figures, and not repaints.

 

Does EVERY mold that Hasbro makes for a figure get reused? This seems to be the excuse given out, as to why they HAVE TO use Dukes mold for Flint, in order to save costs and justify the new molds.

 

How many Spy Troop or JvC molds were used twice? The DTC line? Barrage was going to be used for an Outback, but that was cancelled, so what kind of return did Hasbro get on those molds?

 

I'd think they'd make the effort on this 25th lineup though, to make them all original and great!

 

That's just my opinion though, and you are entitled to disagree, and treat it as irrational poppycock, unfounded in pure emotion and lacking of understanding of the business side of action figure making, but it won't "sway" me either. ;)

 

When these 25th figures make it to the archives over at Yojoe.com, it'd be nice to see this little tagline attached towards the bottom of Flints image...

 

Body Construction:

 

Flint has an entirely new body sculpt.

 

 

Unfortunately...that won't be the case. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd rather have a respectable all NEW Flint mold and no Serpentor at all.

 

 

Seconded.

 

screw flint @firedevil@

 

 

They DID!

 

 

@lol@

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know I did a little research on Yojoe and no less then 16 figures between 1982 and 1986 have upper-arms that are simlar to Flint's. Now some of them arn't exactly the same, but they are a lot closer then Duke's arms. So if this is about saving money why not sculpt upper arms that they can use 15 more times in the future. They'll have to do it eventually anyways, might as well do it now.

 

Don't have any great money saving data for the chest though....but Flint does look to scrawny with Duke's chest. And the Airborne wings look out of place. But can't see how they could use it again if they did make a new one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not really trying to sway anybody elses opinions of these figures....to "my side". What would I have to gain by doing that?

 

The original point is that I still haven't seen anything to justify your side.

 

Do I throw a fit, and question their intelligence by having a DIFFERENT take on them than myself?
No, have I?

 

No..I merely stick to my guns and keep firing away at the issues I don't agree with or have a hard time accepting as some kind of excuse for what I deem to be a cheap shortcut.

 

So it's a cheap shortcut; I didn't dispute that*. I'm asking if the cheap shortcut in this case is genuinely a "bad" thing, and if so. . .then how is it bad? Why is it bad? I seem to be repeating myself as well and getting a whole lot of nothing. Well, other than, "it's bad, sux, it just does, etc."

 

This reminds me of that Apple Jacks commercial where the silly adult says, "Why?" And the kewl kid looks stumped for a brief moment and says something akin to, "Because we do; so there!" Then the rest of the crowd laughs and falls in line with the brilliant rhetoric.

 

"Just so" statements are worth only so much as the statement itself.

 

It's really all just a personal matter anyway, something more to do with our emotional attachments to these toys (silly as it may sound) and not a matter of convincing the jury, that our position is right and the others are wrong.

 

@loll@ You took it three whole threads dude! And you have to admit that you got alot of people agreeing with you.

 

And yes, you actually did throw the "right" and "wrong" labels out very generously, you want me to quote you? What else am I to believe? Is this your baby or something? You seem to want to come across as caring about the subject even more than the designers.

 

But you're not going anywhere with it. You oppose Hasbro re-using the Duke mold (pre-paint and pre-accessory, mind you) because. . .why?

 

:unsure: huh?

 

I've posted novels on the "whys"...so much so, that others are bemoaning the fact that I CONTINUE to express the SAME opinions on the SAME subject matter, to the point of nausea! @lol@

 

Okay, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Got a cut & paste of your earlier statements? Maybe I missed something. I know you're making the same opinions, but you just don't have anything to really back it up other than, "It's cheap and the fans deserve more." Is that a fair way to sum it up? Is that your final statement?

 

I think Hasbro is perfectly capable of providing each and every figure in this 25th anniversary lineup, with their OWN unique mold. It's a pretty special occasion afterall, and seeing how they've paid homage to the characters original appearances, I was expecting better for all the figures, and not repaints.
Why do they absolutely have to have their own unique molds? What exactly is your standard of "better"? See my previous posts on this. What does your template of perfection look like?

 

What we're essentially doing is arguing Plato's ideal horse, aren't we? Where did the ideal Flint come from? What's it based on?

 

If it comes from the original 1985 toy, then there is no way to improve Flint aesthetically. This of course, is totally absurd, because action figure sculpting/painting has come a long way since '85.

 

If it's based on someone's line art or painting, then who's art is it based on?

 

To me, the ideal the Hasbro designers seemed to be shooting for at the time was simply a realistic looking design, as opposed to some idealized superhero.

 

But over time, the characters themselves became iconic. See, a Duke just isn't Duke without his lack of helmet, "Dudley-do-right" chin and confident smile. Is that right? Some have argued against that. So then we're back to square one. What is it that makes the ideal Duke?

 

Does EVERY mold that Hasbro makes for a figure get reused? This seems to be the excuse given out, as to why they HAVE TO use Dukes mold for Flint, in order to save costs and justify the new molds.

 

Not my excuse.

 

I'd think they'd make the effort on this 25th lineup though, to make them all original and great!
I still don't see your personal standard of greatness. I see it as still "undefined" or else it's just personally subjective to Viper Hunter. I also notice you're not taking my statements point-by-point like you do with so many other posters. Is there something you'd rather be left overlooked? Hm?

 

That's just my opinion though, and you are entitled to disagree, and treat it as irrational poppycock, unfounded in pure emotion and lacking of understanding of the business side of action figure making, but it won't "sway" me either. ;)

 

Not my agenda.

 

-PJ

 

*Even tho' it's just a few pre-painted torsos and legs from some cherry-picked figures while ignoring the others that are "pretty much the same" (Cobra Officer/Trooper).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not really trying to sway anybody elses opinions of these figures....to "my side". What would I have to gain by doing that?

 

The original point is that I still haven't seen anything to justify your side.

 

Justification? What sort of "evidence" do you need for that?

 

 

I think Hasbro is perfectly capable of providing each and every figure in this 25th anniversary lineup, with their OWN unique mold. It's a pretty special occasion afterall, and seeing how they've paid homage to the characters original appearances, I was expecting better for all the figures, and not repaints.
Why do they absolutely have to have their own unique molds? What exactly is your standard of "better"? See my previous posts on this. What does your template of perfection look like?

 

What we're essentially doing is arguing Plato's ideal horse, aren't we? Where did the ideal Flint come from? What's it based on?

 

If it comes from the original 1985 toy, then there is no way to improve Flint aesthetically. This of course, is totally absurd, because action figure sculpting/painting has come a long way since '85.

 

If it's based on someone's line art or painting, then who's art is it based on?

 

To me, the ideal the Hasbro designers seemed to be shooting for at the time was simply a realistic looking design, as opposed to some idealized superhero.

 

But over time, the characters themselves became iconic. See, a Duke just isn't Duke without his lack of helmet, "Dudley-do-right" chin and confident smile. Is that right? Some have argued against that. So then we're back to square one. What is it that makes the ideal Duke?

 

Um, what?

 

25th Storm Shadow resembles RAH Storm Shadow as close as they can get (with a somewhat "updated" feel). Same for Roadblock, Baroness, Destro, Cobra Commander, Duke, Cobra, Scarlett, and Gung-Ho. (Snake Eyes version 1 was so bland they HAD to add detail). Flint, Snake Eyes 2 and Storm Shadow 2 do not look anything like their RAH versions. Why?

 

The "ideal" Flint? Give me a break. The "ideal" Flint would resemble RAH Flint....the same way the OTHER TEN DO. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp? Same for the SE/SS 2s.

 

I don't think even someone as outspoken as Viper Hunter is arguing completely against the reuse of molds. I think (or at least *I* think, and we seem to be in relative agreement on the subject) that repeats and repaints can wait for 2008.

 

I mean what if, just for sake of argument, the line WAS capped at 25? Would you rather have a bunch of repaints and repeats? Or 25 unique individual figures that represent their iconic forms from RAH?

 

 

You know I see you trying to counter mine and VH's argument, but I don't see you actually READING the arguments. Nor do I see you "justifying your side" as you expect VH to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

obiwanjacoby, please stop trying to use logic to reason with the naysayers. You'll never convince them. Some people just love to complain, no matter how nice a figure looks.

 

Fact is, even if Flint had an all-new mold, he couldn't look much better than the version we're getting.

 

There's nothing wrong with Hasbro resuing parts, if they make it work. They did in this case. In fact, the entire first wave of individual figures looks great...even if they are repaints. The addition of new heads and accessories really make the difference on these figures. So what if a minor detail is different than the RAH original? Is that really worth complaining about? This is especially odd about the Airborne badge on Flint, since he graduated Airborne School which should entitle him to wear it.

 

What's really funny is so many people on this board will complain about whatever is shown by Hasbro. Then they'll buy it when it comes out and say how much they like the figures. Or they'll complain no matter what. I bet if Hasbro made figures based directly on some posters thoughts for what the figures should be, they'd still complain. They'd complain just to complain.

 

I honestly can't comprehend the desire to complain about such nice-looking figures. I really can't. I just can't figure it out.

 

In case you missed it....THE FIGURES LOOK FINE. Well done, Hasbro! (like they still come on these boards...why would they?). Keep up the good work. The only downside to this line is the wait for them to hit retail.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not really trying to sway anybody elses opinions of these figures....to "my side". What would I have to gain by doing that?

 

The original point is that I still haven't seen anything to justify your side.

 

Don't worry about "sides"..that's your problem. Asking me to "justify my opinion is pretty arrogant, don't you think?

 

I complain..

 

YOU don't see it...

 

and all the "but WHY..?" "PROVE your point..!" "MAKE me SEE it, and I'll join YOUR side..!" isn't going to amount to a hill of beans, while you stand with arms folded, demanding a logical (according to your logic)explanation out of me over my feelings on the matter, one that likely while never be logical to EVERYONE.

 

Do I throw a fit, and question their intelligence by having a DIFFERENT take on them than myself?

 

No, have I?

 

It's feelin' like it, but I'd likely fail at justifying that as well.

 

No..I merely stick to my guns and keep firing away at the issues I don't agree with or have a hard time accepting as some kind of excuse for what I deem to be a cheap shortcut.

 

So it's a cheap shortcut; I didn't dispute that*. I'm asking if the cheap shortcut in this case is genuinely a "bad" thing, and if so. . .then how is it bad? Why is it bad? I seem to be repeating myself as well and getting a whole lot of nothing. Well, other than, "it's bad, sux, it just does, etc."

 

This reminds me of that Apple Jacks commercial where the silly adult says, "Why?" And the kewl kid looks stumped for a brief moment and says something akin to, "Because we do; so there!" Then the rest of the crowd laughs and falls in line with the brilliant rhetoric.

 

"Just so" statements are worth only so much as the statement itself.

 

I'm trying to find out WHERE I posted such crap as that to begin with. Reducing my comments to such tripe is a cheap debate tactic, and I'm still wondering why you feel it necessary for ANYONE to justify their viewpoints on an issue like this to you?

 

I'm not compelled to step back just yet, and give the Flint mold a "good enough" rating, despite others feelings that it is or even BETTER than good enough but pretty damn good.

 

We might as well be arguing about why some like Serpentor and others don't. Why some articulation points are good as others are not.

 

To each his own?

 

@loll@ You took it three whole threads dude! And you have to admit that you got alot of people agreeing with you.

 

And yes, you actually did throw the "right" and "wrong" labels out very generously, you want me to quote you? What else am I to believe? Is this your baby or something? You seem to want to come across as caring about the subject even more than the designers.

 

I do CARE. I like G.I.Joe. I like Flint.

 

I'm fully aware of my negativity towards Hasbro on these issues, as they've disappointed me a lot lately, but I've been at it long enough, I feel I can share those opinions, and if others agree, that's good to know I'm not living in a vacuum with those thoughts, and if others disagree, well, that's all part of the enjoyment we get out of being part of a group like this. Maybe not for some, but for most.

 

 

What we're essentially doing is arguing Plato's ideal horse, aren't we? Where did the ideal Flint come from? What's it based on?

 

If it comes from the original 1985 toy, then there is no way to improve Flint aesthetically. This of course, is totally absurd, because action figure sculpting/painting has come a long way since '85.

 

If it's based on someone's line art or painting, then who's art is it based on?

 

To me, the ideal the Hasbro designers seemed to be shooting for at the time was simply a realistic looking design, as opposed to some idealized superhero.

 

But over time, the characters themselves became iconic. See, a Duke just isn't Duke without his lack of helmet, "Dudley-do-right" chin and confident smile. Is that right? Some have argued against that. So then we're back to square one. What is it that makes the ideal Duke?

 

I'd like the "Dudley-do-right" look for Duke. ^_^

 

What's "ideal" to me isn't going to be "ideal" with you, and to ask of each other (as vehemently as you are of me) to JUSTIFY our opinions, to the point of possibly swaying the other to agree and change their position...?

 

@hmmm@ isn't that just a little unreasonable? That's taking things waaay too personal, and while you'd charge that I'm acting arrogant enough to suggest I think Hasbro owes me or that G.I.Joe is MY "baby", the same could be said for those that get angry at me for being negative over something they think is cool.

 

Do I need to apologize for my opinions inadvertently hurting somebodies feelings?

 

 

*Even tho' it's just a few pre-painted torsos and legs from some cherry-picked figures while ignoring the others that are "pretty much the same" (Cobra Officer/Trooper).

 

I don't get the Cobra Officer/Trooper analogy? Cobra Troopers and Officers with nothing more than maybe a different colored Cobra symbol or visor, are hardly in the same category as Joe's staple characters, and UNIQUE dress codes.

 

Cobra has ALWAYS been the more UNIFORMED army, hence the craze for army building. Joe "greenshirts" could be an example of that as well, but we're arguing the difference between Duke and Flint amongst the Joes, the division of Real American and ECCENTRIC Hero's.

 

Football, Baseball, T-shirts and OTHER multi-wardrobe choices have adorned the many stand out characters of ARAH.

 

For YOU, Duke and Flint were close enough in their dress, that a repaint of Dukes outfit (khaki's) is good enough for Flint, and looks just fine.

 

I don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Find Action Figures on Ebay


×
×
  • Create New...
Sign Up For The TNI Newsletter And Have The News Delivered To You!


Entertainment News International (ENI) is the #1 popular culture network for adult fans all around the world.
Get the scoop on all the popular comics, games, movies, toys, and more every day!

Contact and Support

Advertising | Submit News | Contact ENI | Privacy Policy

©Entertainment News International - All images, trademarks, logos, video, brands and images used on this website are registered trademarks of their respective companies and owners. All Rights Reserved. Data has been shared for news reporting purposes only. All content sourced by fans, online websites, and or other fan community sources. Entertainment News International is not responsible for reporting errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and or other liablities related to news shared here. We do our best to keep tabs on infringements. If some of your content was shared by accident. Contact us about any infringements right away - CLICK HERE