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General_Hawk
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i don't like it when hasbro re-uses molds either, but i think this "flint" wave looks quite good. aside from storm shadow and flints arms, all the molds work very well. Hasbro is at least mixing in a lot of new accesories/harnesses/belts.

 

also, I think the reason this wave has so many repaints is due to hasbro wanting to show the second wave.. so they took all or most of the figures that could be made using repaints FIRST and left the others for later... they may have just not had enough time. I think the next set of figures will have all new molds.

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we also might be able to figure out who they will make by figuring out who can use similar bodies with new and elaborate harnesses etc. I think if that is what hasbro is doing then we have a good shot and figures like SCRAP IRON who could re-use the basic trooper body with stuff added ontop.

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First of all, interesting news. It definitely raises more questions that gives answers. I keep wonder who these so-called "retailers" are. Are they big name retailers or just online and small market retailers.

 

Second of all, retooling. I hate it, but looking back on my old figures, I did not mind the same bodies with different head and color schemes. The information seems to state that they are going to try and add in some more new molds to the mix. Good News for those of us that are afraid of a Duke body with a Spirit head. Not something I want to see. Yes, this first wave of single packs is a let down somewhat, but not enough that I am already protesting the purchase of the figures. I like the look of Flint. The first post of pictures that we saw on the forums did not do the set justice. I keep looking over TNI Release picture of Flint and hoping that they will switch his arms with SS II and put bare hands for SSII and put the Arashikage symbol lower on his arm (closer to the wrist). And keep the gloves for Flint and just use a different lower arm(something like Gung ho's) to make them more similar to the originals. I have already preordered my two first sets and already plan on buying more sets if they hit mass market (Wal-Mart, Target, etc.), because if Hasbro continues to press forward with these little anomalies, then I can correct them as a customizer would do.

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First of all, Viper Hunter, I appreciate the support...I'm glad to see, that even if you don't agree with what I put out there, at least the effort is appreciated. That's cool to know.

 

No problem man! ^_^

 

I actually tend to AGREE, more than disagree with your reviews and such, and love the dio work, and pretty much OVERALL input you have into the Joe community.

 

I part with ya mostly on the Sigma Six stuff and some of the excuses Hasbro "puts out there" on some of these issues I think is lame or cheap on their end. You take a more agreeable, positive approach.

 

I love what I see so far, and I know to everyone I'm a shameless Hasbro shill

 

You might THINK that you are, but not necessarily. You may be the "Hasbro shill"...but it's the counter balance to the naysayers like myself, which (between the two) keeps things in a better perspective for us ALL.

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I don't think Spirit is planned in the first 3 waves Rama. My biggest bief with the reuse of parts is with SE v2 actually. You have the most popular Joe and his most popular version and yest they do a spot on v1 and not v2.........just plan idiotic imo!

Draven

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I don't think Spirit is planned in the first 3 waves Rama.

 

Bah!!!...If I have to endure seeing Serpentor as part of the 25 and don't get a Spirit you'll see one miffed Spirit fan!

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My biggest bief with the reuse of parts is with SE v2 actually. You have the most popular Joe and his most popular version and yest they do a spot on v1 and not v2.........just plan idiotic imo!

Draven

 

 

It's the kind of thing that WE customizers might do, in order to create our OWN Snake Eyes (or Storm Shadow) 2nd versions, using the V1 mold, but it shouldn't be something, the company that makes them, resorts to.

 

We only do it for fun, and while in wait for the retail version (of it) to hit the shelves. Now it's as though a 2nd rate customizer slapped one together, and they mass produced it for all the fans.

 

They keep catering to the ninja fans, who only clamor after SE or SS, which shows in their choice to cram multiple versions of them in this special (limited....maybe?) anniversary edition, and not cramming as many unique and original characters as they could into it instead. So unsure of our Joes are they, that they feel a Spirit or Major Bludd or Bazooka wouldn't be pleasing enough additions, that would what...HURT...sales? <_< Come on Hasbro!

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My biggest bief with the reuse of parts is with SE v2 actually. You have the most popular Joe and his most popular version and yest they do a spot on v1 and not v2.........just plan idiotic imo!

Draven

 

 

It's the kind of thing that WE customizers might do, in order to create our OWN Snake Eyes (or Storm Shadow) 2nd versions, using the V1 mold, but it shouldn't be something, the company that makes them, resorts to.

 

We only do it for fun, and while in wait for the retail version (of it) to hit the shelves. Now it's as though a 2nd rate customizer slapped one together, and they mass produced it for all the fans.

 

They keep catering to the ninja fans, who only clamor after SE or SS, which shows in their choice to cram multiple versions of them in this special (limited....maybe?) anniversary edition, and not cramming as many unique and original characters as they could into it instead. So unsure of our Joes are they, that they feel a Spirit or Major Bludd or Bazooka wouldn't be pleasing enough additions, that would what...HURT...sales? <_< Come on Hasbro!

 

That's one of those concepts abouts this line in particular I can't quite grasp.

 

The whole "25th Annivesary" G.I. Joe line is aimed SPECIFICALLY at collectors, as I see it (and I could be wrong). Why else would they try to make the first 10 as "RAH accurate" as possible?

 

They want young/new customers to buy also, hence the presumed (whether real or not) need to include "core characters" every few waves so that these new customers can come in whenever and still keep up. That isn't inherently bad. But it also presumes that the 25th line WILL go past the first 25 into 2008 (and maybe even longer), which is a good notion.

 

I don't think people are opposed to repeats/repaints, just not so friggin' SOON. That may have been necessary for Valor vs Venom or JvC, but here? You mean to tell me they can't do 25 ORIGINAL characters/figures then, if the line proves successful, start adding repeats and repaints?

 

The whole "attract new customers and let them jump in at any time" thing doesn't fly with this line. Especially if you consider that version 1 and version 2 of these guys will BE ON THE SHELF AT THE SAME TIME, for the most part.

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I don't think Spirit is planned in the first 3 waves Rama.

 

Bah!!!...If I have to endure seeing Serpentor as part of the 25 and don't get a Spirit you'll see one miffed Spirit fan!

 

That was weird to me too (not about Spirit per se), but the fact that SERPENTOR is so popular as to be included in the first 25?

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That's one of those concepts abouts this line in particular I can't quite grasp.

 

The whole "25th Annivesary" G.I. Joe line is aimed SPECIFICALLY at collectors, as I see it (and I could be wrong). Why else would they try to make the first 10 as "RAH accurate" as possible?

 

They want young/new customers to buy also, hence the presumed (whether real or not) need to include "core characters" every few waves so that these new customers can come in whenever and still keep up. That isn't inherently bad. But it also presumes that the 25th line WILL go past the first 25 into 2008 (and maybe even longer), which is a good notion.

 

I don't think people are opposed to repeats/repaints, just not so friggin' SOON. That may have been necessary for Valor vs Venom or JvC, but here? You mean to tell me they can't do 25 ORIGINAL characters/figures then, if the line proves successful, start adding repeats and repaints?

 

The whole "attract new customers and let them jump in at any time" thing doesn't fly with this line. Especially if you consider that version 1 and version 2 of these guys will BE ON THE SHELF AT THE SAME TIME, for the most part.

And again, several issues ALREADY addressed rear themselves again with this post:

NOTHING available at retail is going to be specifically collector themed, not to the extent some of you are thinking. Take Transformers:Classics, while the character designs are clearly geared towards the older collector, the actual toys ARE made with regard given to kids: the complexity level isn't that far removed from Cybertron, and well over half the figures feature a gimmick or firing projectile.

 

Retail is DAMN fickle, and while I would LOVE to get 25 unique characters, Hasbro (and to a large extent, US) WANT this line to be successful, and that means hitting with your icons first and foremost. Your arguement about both versions being available at once doesn't hold weight with me because you are comparing a $6 single figure to $25 multipack. There will be a LOT of people, be it collector, casual collector, or kids/parents, who don't or are unable to drop $25 on a set and will get one or two figures. And keep in mind that not EVERY store and market will get both offerings, I've seen more than a few situations where the larger priced items are NOT carried by stores in some markets in favor of the cheaper stuff.

 

Transformers Classics sparked a LOT of interest in traditionally non-hardcore fans, and I think GI Joe 25th can do the same, but when you start looking at icons, the first wave largely comprises that, along with the multipacks. Whether we LIKE it or not (personally, I adore the first wave enough that if I knew we were getting an IG Destro for certain, I'd skip the multipack), I really do think Hasbro is making a wise decision hitting with these icons, even if they aren't accurate (and to be honest, outside of longtime Joe fans, most probably won't recognize the differences to that great a degree, even I have come across people thinking 20th Anniversary Optimus Prime was a reissue of the ORIGINAL 84 toy)

 

I don't think Spirit is planned in the first 3 waves Rama.

 

Bah!!!...If I have to endure seeing Serpentor as part of the 25 and don't get a Spirit you'll see one miffed Spirit fan!

 

That was weird to me too (not about Spirit per se), but the fact that SERPENTOR is so popular as to be included in the first 25?

Well, he WAS the major villian in the second cartoon season and movie. And to be brutal, the cartoon probably carries more weight than the comic, just as with Transformers, in the general public consciousness. In addition, he IS a fairly dynamic design which lends itself to a toyline.

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I don't think Spirit is planned in the first 3 waves Rama.

 

Bah!!!...If I have to endure seeing Serpentor as part of the 25 and don't get a Spirit you'll see one miffed Spirit fan!

 

That was weird to me too (not about Spirit per se), but the fact that SERPENTOR is so popular as to be included in the first 25?

 

 

he is that popular #US1#

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NOTHING available at retail is going to be specifically collector themed, not to the extent some of you are thinking.

 

Even when it states right on the package "special COLLECTORS edition"..? @lol@

 

"NOTHING" is pretty broad a statement there. Look at some of the action figure lines at retail right now, and you can find a good number of them aimed SPECIFICALLY at the collector market, Mcfarlane being one of them. If some young kid takes an interest in them as well, that's pudding on the cake.

 

Vice versa goes for the lines aimed SPECIFICALLY at the kids, and if some collector happens to pick up on them, that's more pudding.

 

You can't convince me that these new 25th anniversary Joes aren't aimed MORE specifically at the collectors, with any additional interest gained on them, by the kids being secondary.

 

The kids have Sigma Six in various scales going on right now, but this anniversary stuff is OURS baby!! ^_^

 

Star Wars has scales and versions designed to appeal to the kid fans and they also include numerous offerings knowing FULL WELL the collectors are the key target.

 

So where's this "NOTHING" concept coming from?

 

 

Retail is DAMN fickle, and while I would LOVE to get 25 unique characters, Hasbro (and to a large extent, US) WANT this line to be successful, and that means hitting with your icons first and foremost.
You're telling me that ARAH doesn't have enough iconic characters to fill a 25 limit slot?

 

 

Your arguement about both versions being available at once doesn't hold weight with me because you are comparing a $6 single figure to $25 multipack. There will be a LOT of people, be it collector, casual collector, or kids/parents, who don't or are unable to drop $25 on a set and will get one or two figures. And keep in mind that not EVERY store and market will get both offerings, I've seen more than a few situations where the larger priced items are NOT carried by stores in some markets in favor of the cheaper stuff.

 

I'd like to know just what the discussion was, at the hasbro board meeting, when somebody decided that two versions of CC, SE and SS would be MORE popular in this anniversary set, with the retailers (do they know Joe?) the parents (do they know Joe?) the kids (do they know Joe?) and/or even the COLLECTORS who DO know Joe and from what I can tell are pretty disappointed in the fact.

 

Aim the set at the collectors, but let retail idiots, assumed preferences of parents and/or their kids, dictate as to who or what gets included or excluded?

 

That's lame.

 

Transformers Classics sparked a LOT of interest in traditionally non-hardcore fans, and I think GI Joe 25th can do the same, but when you start looking at icons, the first wave largely comprises that, along with the multipacks. Whether we LIKE it or not (personally, I adore the first wave enough that if I knew we were getting an IG Destro for certain, I'd skip the multipack), I really do think Hasbro is making a wise decision hitting with these icons, even if they aren't accurate (and to be honest, outside of longtime Joe fans, most probably won't recognize the differences to that great a degree, even I have come across people thinking 20th Anniversary Optimus Prime was a reissue of the ORIGINAL 84 toy)

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a personal story that might be relevent. When i worked for a ministry orginaztion was on their board i got to see and help make a lot of finacial decisions. More than once we knew what we wanted to do but either money or time was given to us in the right space. For example this month we might need to spend x on a party but had a little less, we could delay the party which would slow down the momentum of our concerts, or pheraps a band or something could not be reschedualed or we could give it or best shot now and when more money came down the pike try something else again.

 

Looks to me like we have a similiar situation. the joe department has x to spend they will get more down the line, probably already have because of the buzz. But intill that buzz hit the big wigs only gave them so much. now the have a go ahead and have a couple of choices they could make, risk momentum dieing for the line (i think this was a part of the super hero showdown problem btw) and hold off to make the best, or rush as quickly as possible the best they can do to keep fans happy for awhile. Just like the jvc 1.5 wave. Yes this may mean flint won't get the same treatment as say serpy but it was either that or risk no serpy at all.

 

It's BUSSINESS

 

and no i don't like it either. AT least al of it. But i can recall i didn't like having to have a big concert in the middle of the summer really rushed just because the oppertunity came open with a bigger band. If we had more time it could have been better orginezed but with one band came a lot of hype and if we didn't take it, we wouldn't have had them plan and simple. yeah we could have booked better opening bands, done more advertisments but sometimes you get what you get and you have the make the most of it. Btw. That was a huge sucess and helped our sales and lead to a couple of even nicer events in the fall and winter. I'm hoping history repeats itself here.

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I don't think Spirit is planned in the first 3 waves Rama.

 

Bah!!!...If I have to endure seeing Serpentor as part of the 25 and don't get a Spirit you'll see one miffed Spirit fan!

 

That was weird to me too (not about Spirit per se), but the fact that SERPENTOR is so popular as to be included in the first 25?

 

 

he is that popular #US1#

 

 

YOU don't count. :P @smilepunch@

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Also satan hasbro approved the use of sei-tin in the comic. Me and Skarapz have suggested Fallen forever and that even got worked into the book by jerwa. "our leader is fallen" (in reference to sie-tins defeat in ddp what 28,29?) That would be a good name and many others but he isn't an a-list, or even a c or d list star so we can hold off on him for a while.

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NOTHING available at retail is going to be specifically collector themed, not to the extent some of you are thinking.

 

Even when it states right on the package "special COLLECTORS edition"..? @lol@

 

"NOTHING" is pretty broad a statement there. Look at some of the action figure lines at retail right now, and you can find a good number of them aimed SPECIFICALLY at the collector market, Mcfarlane being one of them. If some young kid takes an interest in them as well, that's pudding on the cake.

 

Vice versa goes for the lines aimed SPECIFICALLY at the kids, and if some collector happens to pick up on them, that's more pudding.

 

You can't convince me that these new 25th anniversary Joes aren't aimed MORE specifically at the collectors, with any additional interest gained on them, by the kids being secondary.

 

The kids have Sigma Six in various scales going on right now, but this anniversary stuff is OURS baby!! ^_^

 

Star Wars has scales and versions designed to appeal to the kid fans and they also include numerous offerings knowing FULL WELL the collectors are the key target.

 

So where's this "NOTHING" concept coming from?

 

I was wondering the same thing. If it wasn't specifically aimed at collectors, they wouldn't make them look like they do. The ENTIRE point is to appeal to collectors. The same thing with DTC stuff. They could have just done Airtight with any old parts or colors but they tried to make him look as close to the original as they could with the available parts.

 

25th Storm Shadow or Snake Eyes don't have to LOOK like RAH version 1 in any way. Isn't it the name/character that drives the iconic status? Take the comic-pack 'Nam versions. They are STILL Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow and I don't think people were pissed that they didn't look like "classic" interpretations. Hell, they could have picked THOSE (the comic pack) looks for the 25th sculpts. Why didn't they? Because the COLLECTORS wouldn't like it.

 

Basically speaking, the entire 25th line is geared SPECIFICALLY towards adult collectors. But it is mitigated by the need/want of Hasbro to include new customers in buying the product as well. So putting out a good product that appeals to both groups could, potentially, be difficult. I don't see it though. If you give the kids what they want in a toy (fun to play with, accessories, poseability, etc.), it won't make as much difference what the toy LOOKS like to them. THAT is reserved more for the adult collectors. If Hasbro could get away with making the figures look NOTHING like whom they are supposed to look like (as far as RAH is concerned) why not? Take Spytroops Scarlett. As I understand it that's the most popular version of the character. Doesn't look anything like version 1. Does that mean kids wouldn't by a 25th version?

 

Retail is DAMN fickle, and while I would LOVE to get 25 unique characters, Hasbro (and to a large extent, US) WANT this line to be successful, and that means hitting with your icons first and foremost.
You're telling me that ARAH doesn't have enough iconic characters to fill a 25 limit slot?

 

I was wondering that too. I mean Serpentor and BUZZER made the list. The only reason Buzzer is even a consideration is because we got Ripper in JvC and Torch in VvV and most people wanted to complete "the original 3". No way of knowing, yet, whom the last 10 are, of course. But guys like Falcon, Shipwreck, Wet-Suit, Leatherneck, Rock & Roll, Night Viper and Crimson Guard aren't as popular as Buzzer and Serpentor? Or that those guys are just not strong enough to include over a second version of Snake Eyes/Storm Shadow in the opening rounds?

 

 

Your arguement about both versions being available at once doesn't hold weight with me because you are comparing a $6 single figure to $25 multipack. There will be a LOT of people, be it collector, casual collector, or kids/parents, who don't or are unable to drop $25 on a set and will get one or two figures. And keep in mind that not EVERY store and market will get both offerings, I've seen more than a few situations where the larger priced items are NOT carried by stores in some markets in favor of the cheaper stuff.
I'd like to know just what the discussion was, at the hasbro board meeting, when somebody decided that two versions of CC, SE and SS would be MORE popular in this anniversary set, with the retailers (do they know Joe?) the parents (do they know Joe?) the kids (do they know Joe?) and/or even the COLLECTORS who DO know Joe and from what I can tell are pretty disappointed in the fact.

 

Aim the set at the collectors, but let retail idiots, assumed preferences of parents and/or their kids, dictate as to who or what gets included or excluded?

 

That's lame.

 

Transformers Classics sparked a LOT of interest in traditionally non-hardcore fans, and I think GI Joe 25th can do the same, but when you start looking at icons, the first wave largely comprises that, along with the multipacks. Whether we LIKE it or not (personally, I adore the first wave enough that if I knew we were getting an IG Destro for certain, I'd skip the multipack), I really do think Hasbro is making a wise decision hitting with these icons, even if they aren't accurate (and to be honest, outside of longtime Joe fans, most probably won't recognize the differences to that great a degree, even I have come across people thinking 20th Anniversary Optimus Prime was a reissue of the ORIGINAL 84 toy)

 

Besides there is no guarantee we wouldn't see all the guys from them multi-packs as singles down the road. If the assumption for getting version 2 Snake Eyes is so people can get him if they can't afford the multi-pack, then what about Baroness or Duke or Roadblock?

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Also satan hasbro approved the use of sei-tin in the comic. Me and Skarapz have suggested Fallen forever and that even got worked into the book by jerwa. "our leader is fallen" (in reference to sie-tins defeat in ddp what 28,29?) That would be a good name and many others but he isn't an a-list, or even a c or d list star so we can hold off on him for a while.

 

 

Sei-tin! THATs what it was!

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Yes this may mean flint won't get the same treatment as say serpy but it was either that or risk no serpy at all.

 

It's BUSSINESS

 

 

Naw! It's human fallacy!

 

Some schmuck who doesn't have much appreciation for the characters of ARAH, or in particular, the character FLINT, made the decision to shortcut his mold for the set.

 

If Flint got the cheap route done on him, to allow for a Serpentor figure, that's gonna be pretty damn pathetic. I'd rather have a respectable all NEW Flint mold and no Serpentor at all.

 

I'd rather have an Alpine, Bazooka, Footloose, Dusty, an extra Dreadnok or BAT...before a Serpentor. Not that I dislike Serpentor, but if these are the types of "business" decisions going on within Hasbro, I gotta admit, I'm not impressed with their strategy so far.

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Is that parody? It's got to be parody, right?

 

Ha! It is! It's a brilliant parody of stupid internet goons!

LOL!

 

 

"Schmuck"! Ha ha! Oh, you're a funny guy.

 

 

flame.gif

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vh, i just want to ask you one point blank question.

Would you rather hurt the whole line and it's sales and have a better flint?

 

Sales/time/situation dictated limits. what are you going to do? okay that might have been a 2nd question lol.

 

either way pal, here is hoping we both have our socks knocked off by wave 3!

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vh, i just want to ask you one point blank question.

Would you rather hurt the whole line and it's sales and have a better flint?

 

Not at all. Not sure how you figure getting an all new mold for Flint would "hurt sales"?

 

I'm just not buying the assertion that in order to make it a success, they had to use another mold for him. I know that's the theory going around, but I find it doubtful that Hasbro is so BROKE-ASS close to bankruptcy, that they're relying on these types of practices to BARELY put out an anniversary lineup for us, and add to that theory, if we buy a BUNCH of these, we'll bail'em out of their hole, and they can THEN make more.

 

 

Sales/time/situation dictated limits. what are you going to do? okay that might have been a 2nd question lol.

 

either way pal, here is hoping we both have our socks knocked off by wave 3!

 

I'm tired of always waiting for the NEXT wave....to be BETTER! I really wanted THIS lineup to "knock our socks off" considering it might not go beyond the first 25.

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Even with lots of money alot of it is tied up. Hasbro also is a large intentiy the joe department is a small part of that. It may not have hurt the line in the way your thinking. It could have just meant no single packs for 2-3 months later. At that point casual folks or kids would already be forgeting about the line and less likely to be it. Not just them either, retailers too. That's why i mentioned Jvc wave 1.5 and showdown. It's good to have something on the pegs. If you don't people forget about you. How many retailers order shs wave 3 and 4? yeah there were other factors but part of it was the long gap. people have very short memories.

 

this line, at least with the packs did knock my socks off. The singles aren't perfect but i'm pretty happy with most of em.

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Even with lots of money alot of it is tied up. Hasbro also is a large intentiy the joe department is a small part of that. It may not have hurt the line in the way your thinking. It could have just meant no single packs for 2-3 months later. At that point casual folks or kids would already be forgeting about the line and less likely to be it. Not just them either, retailers too. That's why i mentioned Jvc wave 1.5 and showdown. It's good to have something on the pegs. If you don't people forget about you. How many retailers order shs wave 3 and 4? yeah there were other factors but part of it was the long gap. people have very short memories.

 

this line, at least with the packs did knock my socks off. The singles aren't perfect but i'm pretty happy with most of em.

 

 

I wonder if there's a chance that they just plain ol' FELT like doing it this way, because they didn't think it was all that big a deal and it LOOKED good enough to THEM? @hmmm@

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