Jump to content

death of the toon, good or bad?


revsears
 Share

Recommended Posts

maybe i missed all the talk of it but it appears the toon has been canceled and i was just wondering your thoughts on how that will affect us? it will mean less exposure but maybe it could mean that more attention will go to the collectors now.

 

I do think it shows hasbro made a big mistake with the direction they took. While it did improve in the second season it seemed it was trying to be everything but Joe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the biggest problem it had was, they were showing way to many re-runs. Everytime I turned it on they were repeating the first couple episodes. I think the toon itself was gettting better each episode, but it's hard to get into something when all they ever show are the same couple episodes.

 

Also story wise I think one of the problems I had is Cobra never won, so they just came off as total bafoons. The whole thing with the stones, every time GIJoe beat cobra to it. In the classic series you'd have Cobra win some victories like beat GIJoe in the race for some of the elements for the mass device or they would get all the peices back for the weather dominator or complete the perymid of darkness, building up the suspense, and then in the end GIJoe would win the day, but often just barley. This cartoon did nothing to ever really build up suspense, untill maybe the very end of the second season when the Joe team was all captured, but I never did see how that ended, cause they started showing reruns again and then it was canceled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry it failed, but seeing as how the writing was just getting worse and worse I'm not exactly surprised. In the beginning I went nuts when I heard it was going to be animated by Studio GONZO I was so excited. I realized that the writing would probably be crap but was too worked up over how much I liked the animation. Sure enough GONZO delievered the goods but whatever writers 4Kids hired should have been dragged out to the middle of the street and shot.

 

It was nice while it lasted but it was probably only natural that it would never last very long. At least one of my Joe related fandom wishes came true, I got to see a G.I. Joe Anime series.

 

Now I just have to keep praying until Hasbro gives the thumbs up on a G.I. Joe RTS game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the modern animation industry.

Most action-adventure, hell most any-genre cartoons don't go past one or two seasons these days.

 

Lots of reasons for that, usually stemming from low ratings, BUT cartoons typically are at the bottom rung of the ratings ladder anyway. They are hyped to the smallest segment of the viewing audience and often relegated to only certain channels--usually on cable, or subscription TV.

The other thing is that once a show tops 40 episodes or so.........unless the ratings are really quite high, there's no call for a re-order because they can turn around and re-run the series ad infinitum and get much the SAME ratings for vastly less cost.

Sigma Six might have had a 26 ep per season order ( not sure, as I haven't followed the series at all), and if they went to full season for each , they have 52 eps in the can. That's plenty to syndicate.

When I saw the show--maybe 3-4 episodes......it was the usual anime fluff, with anime stories and situations. It wasn't spectacular storytelling--they didn't really go anywhere with it or take any chances.

Gonzo seemed to do decent fight sequences, but the rest was dull. Sadly, that is most like most cartoon of the samet same ilk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, part of the problem, as I see it, is that a lot of the cartoons today are exceedingly "kiddie" Kids today want to be more...grown up but the cartoons treat them, well, like kids.

 

Sigma 6 had that problem it was too kiddie.

 

There were a few shows on Cartoon Network, Justice League, for example, that were much better than that. But, of course, the problem there was, as Arrow pointed out, tons of repeats. But also changing time slots and general absurdity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where did you read that Sigma 6 was canceled? I can't find it any where. To me it seems like they're doing the samething that they did with last season and split it. They showed the 1st half twice then took a couple months before airing the 2nd half of the season and that seems to be what they are doing now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, part of the problem, as I see it, is that a lot of the cartoons today are exceedingly "kiddie" Kids today want to be more...grown up but the cartoons treat them, well, like kids.

 

Sigma 6 had that problem it was too kiddie.

 

There were a few shows on Cartoon Network, Justice League, for example, that were much better than that. But, of course, the problem there was, as Arrow pointed out, tons of repeats. But also changing time slots and general absurdity.

 

Actually, it was JayC that pointed out the repeats--but you are right about the "kiddie" material.

Cartoons today seem to be aimed at some defined demographics.

Pre-schoolers and toddlers.

Primary Schoolers

Tweeners and "dumb" teens, and "smart" teens

And prime time

The first three have some blurring between each of them, as they material is really written down to them.

You take shows like Dora The Explorer and its pretty much the same tone as Clifford the Big Red Dog, Disney's Recess, or any dozen other shows ( typically what was shown on PBS kids)

Then you get the teen stuff with this oft/mostly imbecilic view of the teen world, where everything is "cool/hip" and supposedly backed by real educator's insight into what modern teens are like.

And usually they are wrong.

I call part of that group "dumb teens" because the characters in the shows are more or less just that......dumb. Stuff like Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Carl2, and others have this cookie-cutter view of teens that just isn't real.........and very rarely entertaining. Younger kids will watch this, but not really stick with it.

Its all written as if the children watching it are morons, and the kids that seem to be enthralled by it tend to be really young.

 

Then you have the "smart" teen stuff , which will be a lot of higher-end anime, stuff like JLA, the Batman etc.....which usually will have stories/content that really doesn't take pains to talk down to its audience.

Its not Batman going on a picnic and having Robin squirting his water bottle at him all the time kind of stuff--it tends to be more seriousl, played straight with a few thought out yucks.

Its also the material that a lot of adults can appreciate too.

 

And surprisingly, more than a few younger kids eat the stuff up as well.

My youngest step-son ( just for example) glommed onto JLA, and the other superhero cartoons, but avoided Teen Titans like the plague. They were too "funny" he'd tell me.

He watched Sigma Six for a while, but the characters he HATED were Tunnel-Rat and Heavy-Duty--the two that were primarily aimed right at him. The ones he dug--naturally--were Snake-Eyes and Stormshadow--usually because they were just all action (fighting)

What I find interesting is that a lot of voices I hear/read from seem to respond to the same things as well--regardless of their ages.

The one different thing is the prime-time stuff which tends to be comedies with a more mature bent. My step-kids LOVE Family Guy, the Simpsons and Futurama......and that stuff is definitely NOT written at them.

Personally AND professionally, I find that interesting because alot of the cartoons I work on tend to be just awful banal stuff. There's oppourtunites to take the material down interesting and dramatic paths and the writers/producers/networks all want the dumb stuff.

Sigma Six reeked of that same kind of thing. It was aimed at an specific audience, written down to them and saddled with really dumb stuff--all because it was thought it would appeal to the kiddies.

Instead, it turned them away.

 

But that, is the nature of the beast in animation today. We will not get the kind of show we seek because we are not the audience they aim for. So what happens is that outfits like Gonzo slide in some cool fight scenes inbetween bits of Duke and Scarlet going shopping at the mall, or the team having a BBQ and playing around with hot-dogs and flowered Hawaiian shirts....

It IS dumb, what that's what it is--just more stupid cartoons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sigma six is kinda like that crappy stargate cartoon they made awhile back. it lasted.. what one season? had nothing to do whatsover with the original story or anything. i guess i couldn't care less since i only watched the first episode and some trailers and things online. it just wasn't gi joe to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they started a new cartoon like the older one and just updated the material, kinda like how they have done the comics, would you guys watch it?

 

 

Hell, I'd be happy if they animated the stories from the Marvel run of the GI Joe comics.

 

Off hand, in the last 15-some-odd years, the more interesting toons to me have been to me: Batman: The Animated Series (not the slop that's on now with that freak'd out Joker), Superman: TAS, JLA/JLU, Beast Wars and War Planets. Even that Spiderman toon wasn't all bad.

 

While most of the origin stories (for example) weren't totally new to me, it was still interesting to watch them in animated from. Even some of the new Fantastic Four toon episodes piques my interests in the same way.

 

The same can be said about all the comics turned live action movies of today: Spiderman, Batman, Superman, X-Men, Blade.... We all know the story/origins, but yet, we still flock to the theaters. And neither the toons nor the movies have been always 100% accurate to the source material, and in some cases that's OK. Or at the very least, we lived with it.

 

So with all that being said, Hasbro (or whoever) has 100+ issues of stories and a decade or so of history to tell. The origin of SE, SS, Serpentor, CC, GI Joe, Cobra, Nightcreepers, Dreadnoks.... all of this back story to fill in the gaps inbetween a little humor, a little artistic license, and whatever else they wanna throw in. Tie it in with the invasion of Cobra Island (a few times) or the liberation of some Middle Eastern country (for example), and we good to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with that, 8speed, is that networks are often skittish about material they deem too violent. If I recall, Hasbro tried HARD to get a new Joe cartoon on the air before the modern line relaunched in 2002, the problem was...no network would touch it. Even though Cartoon Network agreed to run old Sunbow episodes, they only aired a few dozen and at a timeslot which was largely unwatchable by the demographic Hasbro wanted to buy the toys.

 

Personally, I think the second season was just a ridiculous improvement over the first, with Tunnel Rat and Heavy Duty largely put to the sidelines. Sadly, the second season I feel REALLY hit on a solid mix of action and intrigue and had it aired after the initial 5 episodes, I think the series might have done better. I feel a LOT of you are vastly overrating the original Sunbow cartoon, and aside from the 5 part miniseries, Cobra was no more effective in the old cartoon that in Sigma Six.

 

For a series intended solely to sell toys, I feel the second season did as effective a job as any other series like that. Aside from Beast Wars and possibly War Planets, none of the mentioned great animated series were intended to sell toys (at least no to the degree as Transformers or GI Joe were).

 

In so far as it being cancelled, Wesker, the show has been removed from 4Kids schedule, and Hasbro's Monkey Bar TV is promoting that it is the only place to watch the second season of Sigma Six.

Last I knew, the second season had at least 13 episodes produced (8 were aired by 4Kids), and I heard that an additional 7 were ordered late last year, but I'm not sure if they got produced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Sigma 6 lasted as long as the original series. Of course, the two 'seasons' totalled only one of the original seasons. I ,for one, didn't mind the material too much. I especially thought the second season was much better than the first. I would have liked to have seen more. It wasn't great, and I'm really not even a fan of S6, but it was cool to have Joe on TV again. Even if it was a bit watered down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Sigma 6 lasted as long as the original series. Of course, the two 'seasons' totalled only one of the original seasons. I ,for one, didn't mind the material too much. I especially thought the second season was much better than the first. I would have liked to have seen more. It wasn't great, and I'm really not even a fan of S6, but it was cool to have Joe on TV again. Even if it was a bit watered down.

 

The original series lasted longer than two seasons. You poor poor people just keep forgetting the DiC episodes. :)

 

-Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they started a new cartoon like the older one and just updated the material, kinda like how they have done the comics, would you guys watch it?

 

I would definatley watch a show like that. it would be a bit like how the newer justice league was made. speaking of which... are those available to but on dvd anywhere???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Sigma 6 lasted as long as the original series. Of course, the two 'seasons' totalled only one of the original seasons. I ,for one, didn't mind the material too much. I especially thought the second season was much better than the first. I would have liked to have seen more. It wasn't great, and I'm really not even a fan of S6, but it was cool to have Joe on TV again. Even if it was a bit watered down.

 

The original series lasted longer than two seasons. You poor poor people just keep forgetting the DiC episodes. :)

 

-Kevin

 

 

No, I'm just trying to block anything that horrible from my mind. To me, that was a whole different series of GI Joe. Like Extreme or S6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest DavAnthony

Most cartoons today are written as if children have all had lobotomies. It seems an entire generation is going to grow up using pokemon, yugi-oh and a variety of other cartoon network and saturday morning junk as their baromter for quality. Sigma Six is indicative of the environment out there today. I don't know why comanies are afraid to make shows that tell a story and have good voice acting, the Gijoe and Transformer cartoons of 20 years ago are still more entertaining then the modern day "crop" of junk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most cartoons today are written as if children have all had lobotomies. It seems an entire generation is going to grow up using pokemon, yugi-oh and a variety of other cartoon network and saturday morning junk as their baromter for quality. Sigma Six is indicative of the environment out there today. I don't know why comanies are afraid to make shows that tell a story and have good voice acting, the Gijoe and Transformer cartoons of 20 years ago are still more entertaining then the modern day "crop" of junk.

 

 

Having been born in the late 80s I'll admit that the cartoons on tv now suck beyond belief, but there are a few exceptions I must admit. The 80s and 90s were the reason you got up early on saturdays to watch cartoons or come home after school and turning on the tv, ah good times and good memories :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sigma six is kinda like that crappy stargate cartoon they made awhile back. it lasted.. what one season? had nothing to do whatsover with the original story or anything. i guess i couldn't care less since i only watched the first episode and some trailers and things online. it just wasn't gi joe to me.

 

Heh, that reminded me of this:

 

http://www.lilformers.com/home.php

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most cartoons today are written as if children have all had lobotomies. It seems an entire generation is going to grow up using pokemon, yugi-oh and a variety of other cartoon network and saturday morning junk as their baromter for quality. Sigma Six is indicative of the environment out there today. I don't know why comanies are afraid to make shows that tell a story and have good voice acting, the Gijoe and Transformer cartoons of 20 years ago are still more entertaining then the modern day "crop" of junk.

 

Thing is though kids today have so MUCH other stuff that I think producers don't think it is worth it to make shows better.

 

I mean back in the 80s we ACTUALLY played with toys and actually watched those cartoon/commercials. Imagine if we had internet back then? Imagine if whe had more than Atari or Intellivision or Ipods and text messaging.

 

Kids today don't play with toys so much, I don't think (which leads to the debate on just how important the adult collector market is to the toy industry). At least not like before.

 

And tv show producers see that, in part and aim at the younger viewers. But they use the the mentality that kids today are like kids from 20 years ago...naive and immature. That isn't to say they aren't still, but kids today aren't as naive and immature as show producers think they still are. Look at Arrow's comments about his step-son being the target audience for the idiotic Tunnel Rat and Heavy Duty antics. 20 years ago, kids might have liked that. Today? Well if they did, the show would probably still be on the air....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is guys..........cartoons today are NOT different from the ones from our youth.

Go take a hard look back at them and you'll see they had just as many dumb stories and situations.

He-man and GIJOE were chock full of really juvenile stuff.

My childhood goes back to the 60's and the action/adventure stuff I grew up on ( Space Ghost, Jonny Quest, Herculoids, the Filmation DC heroes, Planet of the Apes etc)........they all had their MANY stinkers. The differences is some of them were prime time ( Jonny Quest notably) shows, not Saturday morning.

What is different is that there is a lot more educational influences in cartoons these days--though that material really only grabs the really young kids. BTW, Saturday morning cartoons are now something lost to today's kids. Most markets have a 24-hour cartoon channel and most major networks do NOT have sizable blocks of kids programming on Saturday morning anymore. My step-sons do not know what I'm talking about when I mention the term "Saturday morning cartoons". Its now something that is outside of their lexicon of understanding and foreign to their youth culture.

 

Doing action adventure cartoons is tough. There's really strong emphasis placed on making the content relevant to kids--hence kids and kid-level antics are often featured as principal parts of the stories. Hence there's the requisite pizza parties and school antics and other trite stuff.

Those kinds of things reach kids........good stories don't--because kids are focused on moments in stories rather than overall messages. A great big epic tale of pathos and dramatic intrigue is lost on a audience of the young...but a kid dealing with hiding a huge zit on their nose right before prom night is something they can totally grasp.

The show I'm currently working on, Chaotic, has some of that. Sigma Six appeared to be somewhat the same--I remember a horrible episode where the team HAS TO take a forced vacation in Las Vegas, and they have to get Duke or someone to where these really stupid looking sunglasses and a flowered shirt.

Its to give the kiddies a yuck.

 

 

 

It makes us adults and older teens just roll our eyes, and groan--because its lame.

The problem is that its been done before and done to death--but its constantly used because its NEW to the crop of youngsters that have never seen that kind of gag before.

Shows like JLA and the Batman work around some of the kid relevancy by having humour--a thinly veiled concession. Fortunately, in their cases they tend to make it work.

Unfortunately, a lot of networks broadcast standards and practises dictate that kid relevancy MUST be addressed in childrens programming.......otherwise its not considered that.

Now I don't know if all networks are bound by the FCC to broadcast certain amounts/percentages of kids material. I know that about 15 -17 or so years ago NBC and CBS dumped their kids Saturday morning line-ups in favour of news and sports programming, and left kids shows up to the indivudal affilliates.

The shows being done today, most seem to be saddled with a certain kind of content influence--unless they are for specific networks. For every Clone Wars, you get 10 Corduroy Bears--or something pretty close to that. Even something like Fantastic Four--which you'd think would be pretty action oriented--its full of really bad comedy.

Sigma Six was really just another run-of-the-mill cartoon--done in a flashy anime style, with gutless, empty writing ( at least for the first season) and went nowhere and impressed only a few. If its cancelled, its probably a good thing because it MIGHT make room for something better.

 

Or maybe more of the same..... or maybe something a lot worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest McBragg

Sigma Six was a stinker

 

Seriously, 2 episodes of Sunbow had more characterization and story than 13 episodes of Sigma Six.

 

Sigma Six bored me...I tried to like it, but it was impossible...there's almost nothing there. Even Dic had more solid plots.

 

Sad that kid's shows are so marginalized and over regulated these days. No wonder kids turn into teenagers "faster", there's nothing kiddie worth holding onto!

 

You got a point about cartoons not being too different from the old days.

 

I hated the 80's HE-MAN cartoon. because it was cutesy and Filmation was all about messages, and the writers seem to hate that they were writing stories based on action figures, so they'd invent characters like Orko.

 

Oddly enough, when it came to revivals. The recent He-Man cartoon was great, the Joe one was weak. The opposite of the 1980's. At least both worlds got a chance to shine.

 

Also, we know Sealab 2021. The vintage show it was based on, Sealab 2020 is apparentlly incredibly dull, which is why it's almost never rerun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hated the 80's HE-MAN cartoon. because it was cutesy and Filmation was all about messages, and the writers seem to hate that they were writing stories based on action figures, so they'd invent characters like Orko.

 

IIRC, that was due to the Reagan administration bringing in rules via the FCC stating that kids cartoons had to have educational material. This was to stem off what was seen as a trend towards such cartoons being 30 minute advertisements for products aimed at kids. This required characters like Orko being placed into cartoons, and the material being rendered into less dramatic kinds of stories, so as to not scare kids.

IIRC, the ruling was either phased out or weakened considerably in the 90's by the Bush( sr.) administration.

The 80's were a pretty bad time for cartoons in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Find Action Figures on Ebay

×
×
  • Create New...
Sign Up For The TNI Newsletter And Have The News Delivered To You!


Entertainment News International (ENI) is the #1 popular culture network for adult fans all around the world.
Get the scoop on all the popular comics, games, movies, toys, and more every day!

Contact and Support

Advertising | Submit News | Contact ENI | Privacy Policy

©Entertainment News International - All images, trademarks, logos, video, brands and images used on this website are registered trademarks of their respective companies and owners. All Rights Reserved. Data has been shared for news reporting purposes only. All content sourced by fans, online websites, and or other fan community sources. Entertainment News International is not responsible for reporting errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and or other liablities related to news shared here. We do our best to keep tabs on infringements. If some of your content was shared by accident. Contact us about any infringements right away - CLICK HERE