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Save the Classics campaign


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Considering I still see more Cybertron figs in store shelves than I do Classics I'm sure Hasbro knows just how well they're selling and would probably look for some way to continue it. I wouldn't be surprised if the new TF Heroes series contained a Thundercracker thats a repainted classics Starscream or Mirage repainted into Dragstrip even though those characters never make an appearance in the cartoon.

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I would love to see more classics, but I seriously doubt it'll happen; if it was, we'd have seen some of them by now. Hasbro has moved on to the movie line(s) and working on Heroes.

 

Hasbro can be kinda selective on what they keep under really tight wraps. The movie toys have been leaked like crazy and you can see multiple galleries of test shots and prototypes at any of the TFs boards.

 

On the other other hand their up-coming Joe 25th line has been guarded under very strict lock and key, despite the fact that we have known it was coming for months now. Up until the announcement a few weeks ago we didn't even know if it was going to be a line or a single figure. Then they finally showed some figures and the pictures of those only got out a few days early because of some rather dim-witted people working on the Hasbro site. Up until that point no protos, lists, or test shots had been seen/sold/ or leaked out. And we still don't know who, or what the next 15 look like and won't till most likely toyfair. And these figures will hit at or before the same time as the TF movie stuff.

 

Hasbro can keep something under wraps if they want too....doesn't mean there are more Classics coming, but just cause we havn't seen any doesn't mean there arn't either. We should wait till after Toy Fair and see what Hasbro has to say about it.

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Recently I watched a program on History Channel about the history of toys. One of the last segments focused on the modern action figure market and one of the final things said in the program was that it was estimated that OVER 40% OF ALL ACTION FIGURES SOLD ARE TO ADULT COLLECTORS. Actually I want to say they said 48%, all I know is that is was damn near half. I wouldn't call that insignificant.

 

I had no idea there were so many... That's amazing... Just... wow.

 

You know it's be nice to see a fan campaign to save the Classics line. Mostly for new molds and not repaints (unless the repaints make sense -- like G1 Thundercracker and Dirge repainted from SS)

 

I know this is a bit long winded here, but PLEASE try to stay with it. Just a little bit of on the fly logic to consider here.

 

If you really just sit and think about it then maybe it's not really so hard to believe. Plenty of people here have mega-collections. I myself have a large collection of figures from g1-present. Granted I don't have as many g1-BW as many do, but from RID through now I've probably kept up as well as anyone.

 

I would say my collection could easily surpass the combined collections of a dozen or so average kids who get them, and there many more who have even more than I do. You can't think in terms of there being more kids, because that IS NOT the issue here...it's WHO BUYS MORE.

 

Now lets say demographics showed that only 10-15% of the people who buy TF's are collectors. That doesn't necessarily mean that only 10-15% of TF's sold are to collectors, that only shows there are more kids. If collectors out-buy the average kid 6 to 1 (I'd say definitely a conservative estimate) then we're talking about a whole different ballgame.

 

Now keep in mind how people collect. Some buy just one of each fig, some buy exras of only the ones they really like, some even buy two to open (one to display in bot mode, other in alt mode) and then another to keep MISB. It really does snowball fast. I know I have about 20 Scrapmetal figures. How many kids have that many???

 

Now one last thing to consider. Right now, TF's targets kids that from ages 5-14 roughly. Now collectors generally range from ages 18-45 (again, rough estimates)...and yes plenty that are even older than that. Collectors have been around a lot longer than the current generation of kids have been and span several generations. So lets see, that's roughly a 9 year age range of current kids to 25+ years (and growing) of accumulated collectors.

 

Somewhere in all of that you have to think that collectors matter every bit as much as kids do. Heaven forbid...possibly even more....and more than any of us can really imagine.

 

Now if you're Hasbro, you don't want collectors to know this. Because if we did, that would mean we WOULD be a real power and Hasbro would have to acknowledge that, which they obviously don't want to do. So they keep trying to make us think we don't really matter that much. At least that's my thinking.

 

However, Hasbro over the last few years HAS been showing more interest in collectors and HAS been slowly going to greater lengths to take care of us. Is that coincidence? @hmmm@

 

I think not.

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First off, I am probably a bigger collector than 80% of the people on this site. So I could argue for collector side if I thought it was reasonable. It isn't. Let's take Hot Wheels as an example. Yes, Mattel adds Treasure Hunts to a few cases for collectors, or really lucky kids (truly they don't care). But who is the Hot Wheels target markets? Kids. In fact, this year they switched to a 2-tier treasure hunt system because parents complained the kids could never find them, so treasure hunts have become less rare, what collector does that help? None. Why? Because it deflates the value.

Now let's get to the second argument about G1 collections, the collector market for G1 TFs is a secondary market. Hasbro sees no profit from it. Hasbro sells to toy stores, either virtual or brick and mortar. They sell to Wally World, Target and TRU. If those retailers thought the collectors market was so strong, why do the staff people HATE collector? Why did TRU stop letting you get rainchecks for unreleased figures (OK that goes back, 8 years, but they used to do it). They do it because the collector market is more trouble than it's worth.

Psst! Can you check in the back? Hey buddy, can you look up this DPC for me? I opened these 7 cases to find a Jar Jar with good paint apps, what's the problem? Sorry kid, I found these 7 Bumblebees first, I get 'em! Boohoo!

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Looks like I struck a nerve. It looks like we all agree that we need more classics.

 

The next step is constructing a poll that will accurately display the potential of the line, and our interest in funding it. Many internet polls fall short of their goal by not allowing productive options.

 

Here are a few Ideas for Poll options

 

-make around 15 of 1984-85 characters: Soundwave, shockwave, the tapes, Blaster the seekers, jazz, Ironhide,braun, dinobots ect.

 

-make around 15 of 1985-86 characters: aerialbots, stunticons, triple changers, protectobots, combaticons, aditional season 1 characters..

 

-make all of the movie line up - Galvatron, cyclonus, scourge, Arcee, Springer, Kup, Rodimus prime, Ultra Magnus, Wreckgar, Sharkticons, maybe alternate Sharkticons and Junkions (please God!) maybe a Quintesson?

 

-after movie characters? Predacons, Metroplex, Trypticon,

 

I am primarally concerned with everything from 84-the movie. What do you guys suggest for poll options? Keep in mind they probably wont produce more that 20 different molds a year.

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First off, I am probably a bigger collector than 80% of the people on this site. So I could argue for collector side if I thought it was reasonable. It isn't. Let's take Hot Wheels as an example. Yes, Mattel adds Treasure Hunts to a few cases for collectors, or really lucky kids (truly they don't care). But who is the Hot Wheels target markets? Kids. In fact, this year they switched to a 2-tier treasure hunt system because parents complained the kids could never find them, so treasure hunts have become less rare, what collector does that help? None. Why? Because it deflates the value.

Now let's get to the second argument about G1 collections, the collector market for G1 TFs is a secondary market. Hasbro sees no profit from it. Hasbro sells to toy stores, either virtual or brick and mortar. They sell to Wally World, Target and TRU. If those retailers thought the collectors market was so strong, why do the staff people HATE collector? Why did TRU stop letting you get rainchecks for unreleased figures (OK that goes back, 8 years, but they used to do it). They do it because the collector market is more trouble than it's worth.

Psst! Can you check in the back? Hey buddy, can you look up this DPC for me? I opened these 7 cases to find a Jar Jar with good paint apps, what's the problem? Sorry kid, I found these 7 Bumblebees first, I get 'em! Boohoo!

 

@hmmm@ Me thinks Scottie works for Hasbro!

 

So what you believe is that OVER 25 YEARS and several generations worth of a built up fanbase with a LOT more buying power can't compare to a current PORTION of kids in a 9 year age bracket who are lucky enough to get a figure here and there from their parents if they're lucky?

 

Before answering that I think you really need to stop and give this some deep, long thought.

 

We haven't exactly been living in an economical golden age by any means. Yet Transformers have remained one the strongest selling toylines. AND we've seen more and more figures at higher pricepoints.

 

I have 2 nephews who have collections that dwarf any kid I ever knew and mine is probably 5x bigger. And they basically got me back into collecting.

 

I'm guessing most of us here have bigger collections than them as well.

 

What they think of us doesn't mean squat. Hey, I may not like you but I'll glady take your money! :P I've worked in retail most of my life and know all about collectors and how they can be as well as scalpers.

 

Now, Transformers are a lot more complex and expensive to produce than anything else in the action figure market. So you can't compare by the amount of shelf space that TF's get compared to other lines, that's irrelevant.

 

 

Saying that collectors aren't profitable is simply the dumbest thing I've heard anyone say. We'll never know how many millions are made in profit from the collectors...and belive me...IT'S MILLIONS. Sorry, but that ain't chump change TO ANYONE.

 

Now we see a movie being made for who? Not the kiddies. Why would anyone take the risk of spending around $200 mil (even more toward marketing) on a movie geared towards teens and adults if they didn't already think they were gonna bake a boatload of cash? @hmmm@

 

 

 

Look Scottie, nobody is trying to bump the kids. After all, they were invented for kids. However, time has, pardon the pun, transformed them into something more than just a kids toyline. If you can't see that then I don't know what else to say.

 

The reality is that Transformers are huge business. NOT ONLY becuase of kids, NOT ONLY because of collectors. It's a team effort so to speak.

 

Do they survive without collectors? Yeah probably. But if you recall, when collectors weren't that interested the franchise was on the brink of death. It was a combination of kids and a boom in the collectors market that vaulted them back into being one of the most profitable lines.

 

Also, look at Botcon. They end up with fully booked rooms in no time. If they were to hold more conventions in different cities they would all most likely see huge turnouts. But it's very time consuming and expensive to plan and set up events like this which is why they don't do more of them. Even big, rich coroporations have their limits at how much they can or will do.

 

 

Here's a little article I found from almost 4 years ago, note the top selling action figures of the time!

 

http://www.toydirectory.com/monthly/july20...tion_Market.asp

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I think that is abad example... Look at how many people were gobling wsts up by the case here, lots & lots & lots! The alts line and op are bad examples as well! By the time 20th came out the MP was allready out on the market & most people BROUGHT him because he was a better product! 20th was crap compared to the mp... Hell we had to have our own smoke stacks made for it which should say something about us as well!!

 

Wow, you wanna talk bad examples, you picked the most horrendous one for your case right there with the WSTFs. The only reason people were buying cases of WSTFs was so they could get the chase figures, which were what, 2 chaes in a master case of 48? No chases, and people would have only been buying sets of 5 or 6.

 

Do they survive without collectors? Yeah probably. But if you recall, when collectors weren't that interested the franchise was on the brink of death. It was a combination of kids and a boom in the collectors market that vaulted them back into being one of the most profitable lines.

 

Transformers were pushed to the brink of death back in the day when KIDS moved on to video games and other franchises such as TMNT. Plus that was when action masters, pretenders and action masters were all the rage at Hasbro.

 

Look at every toyline since RID. Who have they been aimed at as a primary consumer. Armada, kids. Energon, kids. Cybertron, kids. Hasbro didn't come up with mini-cons because tey thought collectors would go nuts over tiny little robots that plugged onto the ass of a larger robot (Jolt, I'm looking at you!), granted I love mini-cons. Hasbro didn't make a line of transformers where the autobots main gimmick was combining in larger robots because collectors wanted every deluxe sized Autobot to be crippled by the line gimmick. And I'm sure the cyber key gimmick came about because Hasbro knew collectors wanted a bunch of little plastic baggies filled with useless plastic chips which operated a gimmick that mini-cons unlocked 2 years earlier.

 

Seriously, if you think collectors even come close to being more that 15% of the market share (which is being very generous), you guys are deluding yourselves.

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Its too bad we can't ask Transformers questions like we do Star Wars questions to Hasbro this way we could let it be known that we want this to continue

 

 

We used to be able to at a certain message board until a certain site, that may or may not be affiliated with TNI, pitched a #$#@# about Hasbro employees favoring certain sites and got the plug pulled on that. The petty nature of the fandom sometimes boggles the mind.

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Tell you the truth, I'm really not to impressed with the classics. I feel like they are stealing the Alternators thunder. The only problem with the alternators line is they are not thinking g1 enough. The alternators line could be the best line ever. they just need to stick with the good stuff. Where's ironhide? Trailbreaker? Bumblebee? Why can't we see cup, acree or hot rod as alternators, don't even need car licenses, make um straight from the show. That would be way better than the classics line. whatever.....

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Its too bad we can't ask Transformers questions like we do Star Wars questions to Hasbro this way we could let it be known that we want this to continue

 

 

Wasn't there an "Ask Vector Prime" thing like they did with Cobra Commander and Duke (and, I'd guess Star Wars to, but I've never looked into that)?

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Tell you the truth, I'm really not to impressed with the classics. I feel like they are stealing the Alternators thunder. The only problem with the alternators line is they are not thinking g1 enough. The alternators line could be the best line ever. they just need to stick with the good stuff. Where's ironhide? Trailbreaker? Bumblebee? Why can't we see cup, acree or hot rod as alternators, don't even need car licenses, make um straight from the show. That would be way better than the classics line. whatever.....

 

They are two completely different lines that happen to share a common...ancestry.

 

Alternators is about updating G1 characters with modern vehicles, including the detailing of said vehicles.

 

Classics are about updating the G1 figures with modern technological advances to toy design.

 

Besides, Classics had little to do with the decline of the Alternators line. Blame the stagnation of vehicle/character choices (whatever happened to the possible jets and stuff? They coulda said "it wasn't cost effective or something") and the movie.

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Its too bad we can't ask Transformers questions like we do Star Wars questions to Hasbro this way we could let it be known that we want this to continue

 

 

Wasn't there an "Ask Vector Prime" thing like they did with Cobra Commander and Duke (and, I'd guess Star Wars to, but I've never looked into that)?

 

 

I thought that was for news pertaining Cybertron

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What's getting lost in all of this is the direct evidence that Hasbro has been acknowledging a large collectors demand with a lot of recent figures and lines.

 

Alternators are obviously geared for collectors. If we weren't big enough business then why would they have bothered? And on top of that they changed Tracks from yellow to blue when the fandom cried bloody murder. I know that wasn't why they said, but I think a lot of us suspect otherwise.

 

Alternators are a tougher, more expensive line to produce and for being aimed at the collectors it's done pretty damn well. Would such an expensive line have survived this long if it wasn't doing well?

 

20th Prime. They put him out not once, but twice. I doubt if we would have seen that if they hadn't made any money off it.

 

Classics, which I'm not sorry to say ARE aimed at both collectors and kids.

 

I'm sure some movie figures will be

 

Some of you guys are reading what I'm saying but somehow getting the wrong idea. You seem to think I'm saying that collectors alone can support the entire franchise, and I'm not saying that at all.

 

 

I think that is abad example... Look at how many people were gobling wsts up by the case here, lots & lots & lots! The alts line and op are bad examples as well! By the time 20th came out the MP was allready out on the market & most people BROUGHT him because he was a better product! 20th was crap compared to the mp... Hell we had to have our own smoke stacks made for it which should say something about us as well!!

 

Wow, you wanna talk bad examples, you picked the most horrendous one for your case right there with the WSTFs. The only reason people were buying cases of WSTFs was so they could get the chase figures, which were what, 2 chaes in a master case of 48? No chases, and people would have only been buying sets of 5 or 6.

 

Do they survive without collectors? Yeah probably. But if you recall, when collectors weren't that interested the franchise was on the brink of death. It was a combination of kids and a boom in the collectors market that vaulted them back into being one of the most profitable lines.

 

Transformers were pushed to the brink of death back in the day when KIDS moved on to video games and other franchises such as TMNT. Plus that was when action masters, pretenders and action masters were all the rage at Hasbro.

 

Look at every toyline since RID. Who have they been aimed at as a primary consumer. Armada, kids. Energon, kids. Cybertron, kids. Hasbro didn't come up with mini-cons because tey thought collectors would go nuts over tiny little robots that plugged onto the ass of a larger robot (Jolt, I'm looking at you!), granted I love mini-cons. Hasbro didn't make a line of transformers where the autobots main gimmick was combining in larger robots because collectors wanted every deluxe sized Autobot to be crippled by the line gimmick. And I'm sure the cyber key gimmick came about because Hasbro knew collectors wanted a bunch of little plastic baggies filled with useless plastic chips which operated a gimmick that mini-cons unlocked 2 years earlier.

 

Seriously, if you think collectors even come close to being more that 15% of the market share (which is being very generous), you guys are deluding yourselves.

 

Well if has been shown that over 40% of all action figures are sold to adult collectors, and TF's being one of the best selling lines then it stands to reason that collectors do have more than a minor role in their sales.

 

NOT ONE PERSON YET has made a good argument to support your claims that collectors are such a minor part of the market.

 

You guys keep bringing up the fact that they are aimed at kids first...well DUH of course they are...and guess what...THEY ALWAYS WILL BE. Nobody disputes that. However, Hasbro HAS made rather obvious attempts at capturing collectors interests as well in their mainlines with countless homages.

 

At first, Hasbro tried to play collectors off and aim towards even younger kids with Armada but found out that the collectors were rather unshakable. Minicons weren't made with us in mind, but many of us have and still do gobble up the little suckers anyway.

 

From Energon through now we've seen more and more direct evidence from Hasbro that show that they are taking collectors A LOT more seriously. And I doubt if there doing it out of the generosity of their hearts.

 

Todd McFarlane, a guy who knows a thing or two about the action figure market eluded to the fact in that article I posted the link to that collectors have been making a difference in the toy market and over the years since then it's only been growing.

 

I've done plenty of rambling on this. For those who doubt me, look up the program on the History Channel if you have it called "The History of Toys and Games" I'm sure they'll air it again sometime. Watch the end segment on the modern action figure market and that will answer some of your doubts I'm sure.

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Mostly I think it has to do with the fact that kids have more options these days and they're growing up faster. Ipods, computers/aol instant messenger, video games, who has time for toys? The kid market is shrinking and the collector market is growing. Eventually those who grew up in the 80's/90's will be keeping the action figure industry alive as kids of the newer generations grow up with electronic gadgets and next generation video games.

 

Most lines are kept afloat by both kids and collectors, armada did pretty poorly but cybertron did great, cybertron had more collector friendly toys without being too kid oriented. Still they created entire toy lines, long running ones at that, like alternators to keep us happy. As well as masterpiece. Hell even Japan admits that they're focusing on adults now. Could be a lower youth population, or it could be that kids of today, especially in japan, or video game obsessed and couldn't care less for toys anymore.

 

Honestly the only toy line I can think of not kept alive by collectors + kids, but by kids alone, is Power Rangers. But go figure that one out, pretty much no one in the industry can. After Power Rangers then Pokemon, it was pretty well documented that kids born in the 90's are ##$%$#ed.

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Its too bad we can't ask Transformers questions like we do Star Wars questions to Hasbro this way we could let it be known that we want this to continue

 

 

Wasn't there an "Ask Vector Prime" thing like they did with Cobra Commander and Duke (and, I'd guess Star Wars to, but I've never looked into that)?

 

 

I thought that was for news pertaining Cybertron

 

It looks that way, but the NEVER updated the questions/site ever, so who could really tell?

 

But the "Ask Cobra Commander" one had questions about both Sigma 6 and 3". Of course THAT one (and the "Ask Duke" one) haven't been updated either (hell the first question there pretains to the Viper Lockdwon set. How long ago did THAT come out!).

 

I'm tempted to "ask" some questions about some of the new stuff, just to see what happens.

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Mostly I think it has to do with the fact that kids have more options these days and they're growing up faster. Ipods, computers/aol instant messenger, video games, who has time for toys? The kid market is shrinking and the collector market is growing. Eventually those who grew up in the 80's/90's will be keeping the action figure industry alive as kids of the newer generations grow up with electronic gadgets and next generation video games.

 

Most lines are kept afloat by both kids and collectors, armada did pretty poorly but cybertron did great, cybertron had more collector friendly toys without being too kid oriented. Still they created entire toy lines, long running ones at that, like alternators to keep us happy. As well as masterpiece. Hell even Japan admits that they're focusing on adults now. Could be a lower youth population, or it could be that kids of today, especially in japan, or video game obsessed and couldn't care less for toys anymore.

 

Honestly the only toy line I can think of not kept alive by collectors + kids, but by kids alone, is Power Rangers. But go figure that one out, pretty much no one in the industry can. After Power Rangers then Pokemon, it was pretty well documented that kids born in the 90's are ##$%$#ed.

 

 

 

Exactly. The video game age still very much consumes kids more than toys do. And let's face it, with the price of these things now the kids getting them AND games for them probably aren't going to see a whole lot of other toys coming from Mom and Dad....they'll still be trying to payoff the balance from one video game system on their credit cards by the time the next more expensive system comes out. Doesn't exactly leave a lot of room for big toy collections.

 

 

Marvel Legends were created and aimed at kids, as every line is, until Toybiz realized that OVER HALF of those figures were being bought by collectors.

 

OVER HALF!

 

So then why would it be so difficult to believe that Transformers, with it's long history, has a more significant collectors base than most people think?

 

And to touch back on the point of retailers not liking collectors, one of the biggest reasons is because parents HAVE complained about collectors hoarding all the newer figures making it hard for them to find the figures their kids want.

 

That's why stores like Target post signs saying they won't check in back for collectable items and many other stores, though not having a posted policy, tend to do the same thing.

 

Money is money. No store would turn away the sales unless there was a reason for it, and they don't do it just to be pricks.

 

Let's run this down again...The kids market are primarily made up of ages 5-14. Collectors of ages ranging from 15-50. (Though the main group is considered to be 18-35) And older teens have to be considered part of the collectors market too. (15-17)

 

I've seen and met collectors from all walks of life. Doctors, lawyers, businessmen, bunches of people that are or have been in the military. I've seen actors, rock stars, athletes...you name it. The diversity is just amazing.

 

Over 25 years people. That's a LONG time to be gathering steam. We collect Transformers because they touched our lives and our imagination in a way we couldn't shake and it made us the collectors we are today. People aren't always as different as we try to be.

 

Todays kids are tomorrows collectors. Don't forget that either. My nephew turns 18 next year and he's still as much into collecting TF's as he's ever been.

 

The fandom just keeps growing, and growing...when it stops, nobody knows.

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hasbro you need to WAKE UP and make more classics. it is a real shame that a great line like this is going to get shafted by those god aweful movie toys. these toys are what fans have waited 20+ yrs for! armada, cybertron, energon have never come close to what i wanted out of tfs (just slapping on a similar name and making their heads similar does not count, that is why i never bought most of them).

please get a freaking clue and continue with it as this line has so much potential. i wanted an updated seacon & predacon team!

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Mostly I think it has to do with the fact that kids have more options these days and they're growing up faster. Ipods, computers/aol instant messenger, video games, who has time for toys? The kid market is shrinking and the collector market is growing. Eventually those who grew up in the 80's/90's will be keeping the action figure industry alive as kids of the newer generations grow up with electronic gadgets and next generation video games.

 

Most lines are kept afloat by both kids and collectors, armada did pretty poorly but cybertron did great, cybertron had more collector friendly toys without being too kid oriented. Still they created entire toy lines, long running ones at that, like alternators to keep us happy. As well as masterpiece. Hell even Japan admits that they're focusing on adults now. Could be a lower youth population, or it could be that kids of today, especially in japan, or video game obsessed and couldn't care less for toys anymore.

 

Honestly the only toy line I can think of not kept alive by collectors + kids, but by kids alone, is Power Rangers. But go figure that one out, pretty much no one in the industry can. After Power Rangers then Pokemon, it was pretty well documented that kids born in the 90's are ##$%$#ed.

 

 

Armada did poorly?! News to me. It was reported that Armada was the best selling Transformers line before Cybertron hit. I don't know if cybertron surpassed it, but to my knowledge, Armada was Hasbro's best mainline in the past 4 years.

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