v1 Cobra Commander Prototype

[Doom Saber]

Personally, the way the logo is drawn on both tazzman and cobrasaboteur look different. Tazz is missing a line on his. Furthermore, look how the eyes are drawn. Sabo has the bumps for the eyes while tazz does not. Lastly, the lines that make up the snake comes to a vector on Tazz while it doesn't on Sabo. I really think this is just a coincidence done by two kids.

[cobrasaboteur]

like i said, if you dont look at all the info it is very easy to assume its just a custom. While it is possible(without believing me that there is no prior paint job) for a kid to do both of these, there is no way that two different kids could have done them. The stripe and rivets are proof of this, as well as the lack of detail in the cobra symbols on all promotional images.

 

-saboteur

[cobrasaboteur]

I could go around saying all those heads are first shots. But i don't. Because the facts aren't there.

 

check out this ebay posting (a little free advertising for shane)

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-JOE-1984-MEXICAN-PR...1QQcmdZViewItem

PREPRODUCION MEXICAN STORM SHADOW HEADSHOT is what it says...didnt you just say that you cant come to any conclusions about it???

are you referring to the yourself as the "prominent member of the joe community"??? because you said in your post that you found it in mexico so you wouldnt need anyone to tell you that its a cast head.

 

I dont doubt that you found it in mexico or anything, i'm just noting a little double talk...

 

-saboteur

[Shane Turgeon]

I could go around saying all those heads are first shots. But i don't. Because the facts aren't there.

 

check out this ebay posting (a little free advertising for shane)

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-JOE-1984-MEXICAN-PR...1QQcmdZViewItem

PREPRODUCION MEXICAN STORM SHADOW HEADSHOT is what it says...didnt you just say that you cant come to any conclusions about it???

are you referring to the yourself as the "prominent member of the joe community"??? because you said in your post that you found it in mexico so you wouldnt need anyone to tell you that its a cast head.

 

I dont doubt that you found it in mexico or anything, i'm just noting a little double talk...

 

-saboteur

 

I sold that to him, over a year ago, with exact same description i told you - that it was factory overstock. I said that a case *could* be made for calling them first shots (just like i said in this thread), as has been done with the Mexican Lili Ledy Star Wars factory overstock that has been found, but for all intents and purposes, they're nothing more than overstock.

 

I am not the seller and i can't stop people from stating things to talk up their auctions so i don't know what "double talk" you're referring to. Do you want to blame me for him putting it on the body of a modern Storm Shadow figure too?

 

like i said, if you dont look at all the info it is very easy to assume its just a custom.

 

This coming from the guy who absolutely refuses to look at all the info. Funny, that.

 

While it is possible(without believing me that there is no prior paint job) for a kid to do both of these, there is no way that two different kids could have done them. The stripe and rivets are proof of this, as well as the lack of detail in the cobra symbols on all promotional images.

 

What don't you get Mike? For gawd's sake, there is no, and likely won't be, any REAL proof for your case. So stop saying it. Nothing is proved. Because there is NO HISTORY WHATSOEVER, there's just as much a possibility for two kids to have done this as there is for it to be a sample, which was one person's THEORY, which cannot be validated. In fact, because there's no history, it's MORE plausible that two kids did this - that's the way it works with determining this stuff. You're welcome to send that figure and your story to known authenticators in the toy hobby and chances, they won't give you anywhere near the time of day that we have.

 

It's just ridiculous reading this thread now.

[cobrasaboteur]

No one's answered my question as to what would happen if i sent the figure to bigfan. How could he authenticate/debunk it?? I am very curious as to what he would do with it. (as far as authenticating goes) I will consider showing it to him if there is some way for him to say that this figure could not have been a custom.

 

and i am not going to drop it... if i had dropped this figure like you told me too the first times you posted then we wouldnt be at the point we are at now, tazzzman wouldnt have posted his figure pics, theories wouldnt have been formed, and knowledge wouldnt have been gained. so i'm not going to just drop it until something is definitively proved or disproved.

 

-saboteur

[Shane Turgeon]

No one's answered my question as to what would happen if i sent the figure to bigfan. How could he authenticate/debunk it?? I am very curious as to what he would do with it. (as far as authenticating goes) I will consider showing it to him if there is some way for him to say that this figure could not have been a custom.

 

(Edited to remove some rudeness on my behalf, which came from me misreading the above) From yesterday:

 

ok, so lets say i send the figure to curt and he decides its not custom...then what.

 

If Curt has both figures in hand and decides that they are in fact too similar to overlook, then we do what's always been done with these types of things. We conduct more research to try to find out more information. We talk to other collectors and possibly even people at Hasbro who *might* have some recollection of these. We wait for more to turn up to compare them to. We basically do as much as we can while we wait for more info.

 

But bear in mind, this could take years.

 

In that time, as i said many posts ago, you'll have in your collection a conversation starter. A neat piece that, at the very least, now, has some hobby history to it after this thread. It's something you can tell this story about, you can theorize about but you can't make hard facts about.

 

As of now, it's not something that can be archived because it has no real history. And after this thread, we're going to have to be very skeptical of any others that surface. As Zombieguide said, there are a lot of dishonest people in this hobby and if things like Ron's grey figure and PDDs are faked, then you can bet, if word spreads on this, we're going to see fakes of it as well.

 

Read that again Mike. It answers your question.

 

and i am not going to drop it... if i had dropped this figure like you told me too the first times you posted then we wouldnt be at the point we are at now, tazzzman wouldnt have posted his figure pics, theories wouldnt have been formed, and knowledge wouldnt have been gained. so i'm not going to just drop it until something is definitively proved or disproved.

 

No one told you drop it now. I told you to stop saying that there is proof when there is NONE. No proof. Nada. Zip. Zilch. One new theory came out of this, one which some people think COULD be plausible but others think is much less likely than two kids painting it. NO PROOF.

 

Here's the part that you really need to understand Mike. This isn't something that will miraculously be definitively proved or disproved tomorrow or if Curt or if any other one of us sees it. This could take YEARS to solve now. Literally. How many years has Ron been searching for information on his grey Flash figure? Close to a decade now. How many years did speculation run rampant about PDDs until that mystery was solved? Several. It took me close to a year to find out where the Cobra Combet Set i discovered came from. The bottom line is, these things take TIME.

 

You have to understand that. Now, if you're content to sit and bump this thread every day for 10 years hoping to prove the theory you're really gung ho about, and yelling about "proof" that doesn't exist to everyone who thinks it was painted by a kid, then that's your perogative. But you're going to find you're soon going to run out of an audience for it.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of people now, myself included, who will be keeping an eye out for information relating to this item. I would love to see you right about it and will let you know if i ever find out something either way. I honestly would as i think it'd be a neat find. But i'm not going to let that cloud my judgement. You now need to be accepting of the fact that you're not going to have an answer tomorrow, next week, next year and maybe not for several years, if ever.

[cobrasaboteur]

Shane- that was a good post and informative...i did read the post you quoted when you first posted it hoiwever and i understood it fullyt then, as do i understand it now. I was asking a different question though. I am now asking How will curt tell that they are *too similar to disregard*?? What procedures will he perform what will he look at etc...? Or will he just look at them and say, yeah, they look like they are similar.

 

I agree with you 100% on your above post...

 

i never said i proved anything though...i was just posting things to narrow down probabilities so we could get the best theory

 

as far as bigfan actually seeing these...it might have to wait a bit...possibly until the convention. I have talked to tazzzman and it doesnt look like either of us is confortable sending these in the mail.... too many insurance/security issues at hand...if anyone's ever in Mass though, lmk!

 

thanks,

-saboteur

[Phanstar]

Phanstar Speaks.......

 

First off let me introduce myself. I'm a casual collector with no background in prototype of any kind.

 

I've been following this thread mildly all week.

 

I obviously didn't read all ten pages of posts.

 

My question is this. Did CobraSabadude ever post a link to the auction page of which he bought it?

 

He said he was going to contact the seller to get some background on the figure, did he ever post an update from the seller?

 

 

I know very little but just skimming through the pages based on what info I've picked up a few things seem obvious to me.

 

This figure is just a touched up straight arm cobra commander.

 

Cobra Saba guy seems to REALLY want this figure to be more than it is.

 

This is the lamest thread ever. It fails.

 

 

P.S. I do have one final question... How is the fact that the rivets are painted proof of anything? If a person can paint the chest cant they just as easily dab a drop of paint on the rivets? And if that paint had seriously been there since 1982 isn't that about the first place it would start to chip and fall off?

 

Sorry dude. That was a really expensive bad condition SA CC.

 

Phanstar

[cobrasaboteur]

Its not the painted rivets we were talking about, its the fact that they were silver... it is relevant because most staight arm cc's do not have this trait. and once again, someone who has not been following this thread posts without background info. When i first got the figure i talked with the seller, but i emailed him again and he did not reply, yet he replied to other users.

 

Cobra Saba guy seems to REALLY want this figure to be more than it is.

 

Phanboy-

 

like i've said before, i will be satisfied either way, i just dont want a simple, "it looks like it was painted by a kid, and it probably is" there's more to the picture than that. I dont think that is too much to ask, and i think anyone owning this figure would want the same thing. Do i want it to be legit? You bet! Am i posting ALL the information i have on it? Yes. I want this investigation to go as far as it possibly has, and if i hadn't have been consistent in posting, like i said before, it wouldnt have gotton to this point with new pics from tazzzman, new theories, more evidence, etc. I am not leaving out or altering any details of the figure that i know of. However if there is evidence of a repaint, etc., then i am obviously willing to accept the corresponding theory.

 

-saboteur

[BADDOC1]

Ok, so how are we going to disprove either of those two options... we pretty much know now that this couldnt be the work of two different kids or different adults for that matter.(now that we know about the stripes, rivets, similarity of symbols) It was either the same kid who did both of them, or a single adult collector who whipped these up. An adult collector is unlikely and pretty much out of the questino because these things were not sold to either seller as prototypes, and therefore they did not know themselves that they were any different, and just listed them as regular figures.

 

 

How do we know this, IMHO that’s the most likely answer. On the other hand I can see the line your trying to draw to the early catalog photos but after 25 years that’s a long and far stretching line. The only thing I can think of to help your argument is both yours and taz’s figure are in the same place at the same time to be reviewed by 2 or more people who have some serious knowledge on the subject.

[Cold Slither 'Nok]

cool find yo!

[cobrasaboteur]

thanks nok!

 

Baddoc- these figures couldnt be done by two different kids with the information about catalogs and pictures we have right now. There would be no plausable way for two different kids to look at these pictures and make up these figures with all four painted rivets and the thick stripe. Despite what the opinions are about the symbol, if the symbol is disregarded, two kids would not both know to paint the stripe and the elbow rivets because they are not shown in the pics... i think i described this in another post that might have further info. This does not rule out the possibility of the same kid doing these both.

 

 

also an interesting note-the symbol and the leg stripe have what looks to be identical paint...the *larger brush so larger stripe* theory is less probable because a thin brush/paint marker of some sort would have needed to have been used for the symbol, and the same implement probably used for the stripe...meaning that the stripe was painted most likely with a thin implement.

 

I am not really trying to draw a line to the early photos of this figure...if those figures were in fact resin, then this figure could not have been the figures photoed. However we do not know if all of those figures were the same or if other product samples were sent to distributers.

 

 

 

 

-saboteur

[BADDOC1]

thanks nok!

 

Baddoc- these figures couldnt be done by two different kids with the information about catalogs and pictures we have right now. There would be no plausable way for two different kids to look at these pictures and make up these figures with all four painted rivets and the thick stripe. Despite what the opinions are about the symbol, if the symbol is disregarded, two kids would not both know to paint the stripe and the elbow rivets because they are not shown in the pics... i think i described this in another post that might have further info. This does not rule out the possibility of the same kid doing these both.

 

 

also an interesting note-the symbol and the leg stripe have what looks to be identical paint...the *larger brush so larger stripe* theory is less probable because a thin brush/paint marker of some sort would have needed to have been used for the symbol, and the same implement probably used for the stripe...meaning that the stripe was painted most likely with a thin implement.

 

I am not really trying to draw a line to the early photos of this figure...if those figures were in fact resin, then this figure could not have been the figures photoed. However we do not know if all of those figures were the same or if other product samples were sent to distributers.

 

 

 

 

-saboteur

 

 

Or and to me far more likely they just thought silver rivets looked stupid and seeing as they were painting their cobra commander any ways why not just paint the rivets blue also. This is very plausable.

 

I know this just before I put my very battle scared and war weary gi joes away for the last time as a kid a lot of them got painted, and I’m sure more than a few people here can say they did the same to theirs.

[Goofateer]

I'm really not certain why I keep returning to this post. Other than the fact that it is a fascinating study in human psychology.

 

I can not fathom why the assumption these 3 Cobra logs have to have been created by the same had persists?

 

If you have 100 6 year olds draw Mickey Mouse, I pretty much guarantee that about 60 of them will look strikingly similar.

 

The only striking similarity I see here is that the 4 lines on the TM Commander look a lot like the 5 lines on the CS Commander. Beyond that, I don't see any really similarity. Sure 1 person could certainly have painted all 3 logo's. But 3 different people is fare more likely.

 

On top of that, why did either kid HAVE to have seen one of those advertising pictures to use it as inspiration. I'm certain that by the time a kid wore out his Cobra Commander he would have plenty of better Cobra logo's to reference. I see no reason to reference the sloppy logo, when a kid can make a sloppy logo all on his own. The same goes for the red stripe.

 

Do you know what Acombs Razor is? Sorry that I don't really know how to spell that one?)

It's the theory that given 2 explanations, the simplest explanation is more likely to be the correct one.

 

And I'm sorry here CS, but no matter how hard you try to make the kids theory complicated, it's by far the simplest theory.

 

With the kids theory there are 10's of 1,000's of Cobra Commanders that could have been damaged and repainted by 2 different kids that never met each other, and never even saw any of those advertising pictures.

 

On the other hand, there are what, maybe 10 samples floating around Hasbro in 1982. Probably each of which looks different. I mean look at the few sloppy panted Cobra Trooper logo's we've seen. Sure they look similar, but they all look different. Somehow one of those samples happens to fall into a little kids toy box? A toy box apparently unrelated to Hasbro in anyway. Survives the ordeals of childhood. Only to end up on eBay 25 years later with no indication at all that there is anything special about it. The seller doesn't happen to live in Rhode Island? He doesn't happen to have an uncle that worked for Hasbro? Or even Sears? So what's the connection.

 

As for it being a salesmen sample, there are a few holes in that theory. First off, Cobra Commander was offered as a mail-order figure for what? 6, maybe 8 months before it was for sale at the stores. Toy companies need at least a year to gear up for a toy's release. I'm willing to bet that by the time Hasbro felt the need to shop ol' CC around they probably had a few full production mail-order figures to show the retailers.

 

Not to mention the fact that after 25 years of collecting I've seen and heard about more than a few Hasbro related figures surfacing that where used in the actual photo shoot's, or at Toy Fair, and even several Paint Masters. But I have never heard of a salesmen sample surfacing that was any different from either a full production figure, or a test shot. In fact the 15 anniversary Early Bird set is a good example. Those where considered to be VSP's. That stands for Vendor Supplied Prototypes. Which basically mean's: salesmen sample. And guess what, those figures where UNPAINTED test shots.

 

Just to clarify, in the current collecting community, the word prototype has evolved to equivocate pre-production. Prototype technically means the first version of something. But it has come to refer to ANYTHING that precedes actual production. That includes, among many other things; salesmen samples, VSP's, hard copies, test shot's, and paint master's. I have no problem with that terminology. I don't care which term you use, pre-production, or prototype. For the purposes of this discussion they mean the same thing. So 'I'm right there with you on salesmen sample, that qualify's as a prototype.

 

Have you ever heard the statement, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." That is certainly the case here. It is far easier to believe that 2 kid's painted these, and that they have nothing further in common. I see nothing here that leads me to believe otherwise.

 

Just like any court of law, the burden of proof lay squarely on your shoulders now. Keep posting as long as you like, but I do not see a way for this issue to be proved definitively. There is just no way to prove that these figures where painted by a Hasbro employee as appose to anyone else on the planet.

 

Roger

[cobrasaboteur]

like i said, the stripe, and also just the probability of both the two kids painting the elbow rivets...as thats not really as likely as just one kid painting the shoulder and one painting the elbow. the crotches, silver rivets, and lack of date stamps also suggests that this was probably bought by the same person at the same time if it would have been repainted. By just using mine and bigklops figures as example, most of our figures were not mm, and then most of our mm did not have the variations...this means that these figures were probably (and most likely) produced in the least amount, making the probability of two kids getting these same figures and repainting them as identically as a paint job gets even more unlikely, and HIGHLy improbable. Once again though, I guess ANYthing is possible. a million to one chance, but still possible i guess. If tazzzman's figure did not have the variations it would bring into light this theory of two kids...however, the stripe alone gives reason to believe (for reasons i have posted numerous times) that these were done by ONE person...whether you believe it was one kid or one collector (highly unlikely if you read one of my other posts) or one hasbro employee that is up to you at this point... but those are the most logical theories right now...two kids doing this makes the least amount of logical sense.

 

With the kids theory there are 10's of 1,000's of Cobra Commanders that could have been damaged and repainted by 2 different kids that never met each other, and never even saw any of those advertising pictures.

 

this would be the case IF these two cobra commanders were different sculpts. (example one was straight arm and one was swivel, OR if one did not have the variants) We know that these two figures are straight arm figures. Less of these figures were made than swivel arm figures. Right now we are led to believe that these two figures were Mickey mouse cobra commanders. Many less of these figures were made than regular symbol figures. And we know that these figures are pre running change figures with distinct variations. 3 of these figures have shown up... What leads you to believe that there were *tens of thousands* of these figures made??? There probably werent even that many sears sets made, never mind mm cobra commanders, never mind pre running change figures.

 

 

-saboteur

[Zaku]

I could go around saying all those heads are first shots. But i don't. Because the facts aren't there.

 

check out this ebay posting (a little free advertising for shane)

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-JOE-1984-MEXICAN-PR...1QQcmdZViewItem

PREPRODUCION MEXICAN STORM SHADOW HEADSHOT is what it says...didnt you just say that you cant come to any conclusions about it???

are you referring to the yourself as the "prominent member of the joe community"??? because you said in your post that you found it in mexico so you wouldnt need anyone to tell you that its a cast head.

 

I dont doubt that you found it in mexico or anything, i'm just noting a little double talk...

 

-saboteur

 

I sold that to him, over a year ago, with exact same description i told you - that it was factory overstock. I said that a case *could* be made for calling them first shots (just like i said in this thread), as has been done with the Mexican Lili Ledy Star Wars factory overstock that has been found, but for all intents and purposes, they're nothing more than overstock.

 

I am not the seller and i can't stop people from stating things to talk up their auctions so i don't know what "double talk" you're referring to. Do you want to blame me for him putting it on the body of a modern Storm Shadow figure too?

 

like i said, if you dont look at all the info it is very easy to assume its just a custom.

 

This coming from the guy who absolutely refuses to look at all the info. Funny, that.

 

While it is possible(without believing me that there is no prior paint job) for a kid to do both of these, there is no way that two different kids could have done them. The stripe and rivets are proof of this, as well as the lack of detail in the cobra symbols on all promotional images.

 

What don't you get Mike? For gawd's sake, there is no, and likely won't be, any REAL proof for your case. So stop saying it. Nothing is proved. Because there is NO HISTORY WHATSOEVER, there's just as much a possibility for two kids to have done this as there is for it to be a sample, which was one person's THEORY, which cannot be validated. In fact, because there's no history, it's MORE plausible that two kids did this - that's the way it works with determining this stuff. You're welcome to send that figure and your story to known authenticators in the toy hobby and chances, they won't give you anywhere near the time of day that we have.

 

It's just ridiculous reading this thread now.

 

 

I know it seems like you are talking to a brick w @bH@ all with cobrasaboteur, but chill out. Go punch a heavybag. You are letting anger set a tone here that does not help.

 

If he doesn't get it now maybe he will later. @comehere@ @iwin@

[Goofateer]

There are 10's of thousands of CC not just in the US, but world wide. As for one's with the variations in question, that is still likely to be in the several thousand range, and is at least in the several hundred range.

 

I have Hasbro documentation on an unrelated figure that suggests the first running change on that particular figure took place after 10,000 figures where produced. While the total number of figures stopped somewhere around 60,000, after only 1 year of production, I think that we could reasonably assume that Cobra Commander, being fairly popular, and being produced for about 3 years certainly has more than 100,000 figures out there. Granted, the straight are version is a fairly early change. But 10,000 of straight arms is certainly plausible, while a mere 1000 of this variant would more than cover enough kids for this theory to pan out.

 

Roger

[cobrasaboteur]

I think that we could reasonably assume that Cobra Commander, being fairly popular, and being produced for about 3 years

the staight arm cobra commander was produced for 1 year, and in limited quantities.

 

 

But 10,000 of straight arms is certainly plausible, while a mere 1000 of this variant would more than cover enough kids for this theory to pan out.

 

10,000 mickey mouse cobra commanders, however, which the repaint theory assumes this figure is, is not plausable. curt said around 5000 of each set containing the mickey mouse ccs were produced. lets say 5000 sets. thats 5000 straight arm ccs, however that is less than half of them probably mickey mouse cobra commanders, because as you know as well as i do, the mickey mouse cobra commanders are rarer than the regular symbol ones...we are now down to probably 1000 in five thousand being mickey mouse (even though 1 in five proportion isnt really right, i'd say there are less than 1 in five mmcc's) we are now down to 1000. Just from ebay pics of straight arm ccs and the three posted, the figure happens to come up much less than 1 every two occurances, in fact, i'd say like 1 every ten occurances...that drops the figure down to 100 figures pre running change. Do i think this is an accurate number? Well, i dont know exactly how many sears set were made or missile command hqs, but they were made in limited quantities and were exclusives, and were at the very beginning of the line. The type of figure that me and tazzzman have at this point seems like by using probability less than 500 were made. And thats if 10,000 sets included straight arm cobra commanders. If 20,000 were made the number would still be under way 1000 figures... and them making that many of those exclusive sets is unlikely...just look at how difficult they are to find today.

 

I have Hasbro documentation on an unrelated figure that suggests the first running change on that particular figure took place after 10,000 figures where produced. While the total number of figures stopped somewhere around 60,000, after only 1 year of production

this is a useless example, as a running change can occur at ANY point in production...the only way we can estimate how many of these were made would be by comparing the number of prerunning change figures to the amount of straight arm figures out there...for example, if we look at ebay for a few weeks, and look at 100 straight arm cobra commander posts, and see that only 10 out of those 100 have the silver rivets and variant crotch and are mickey mouse, we can guess that the change probably took place 1/10th of the way in...just comparing this to another running change does nothing

 

w/e i really dont feel like talking anymore...this is getting lame. I'm really sick of explaining things like 8 million times too that have already been posted. People just post without reading posts that already explain stuff and its irritating.

 

There is just one thing i would like to know...and that is what bigfan or anyone will do or could do to deem these two figures *substantially similar* enough to be legitimate enough to not be a custom job (as shane said we should do)...could bigfan or shane please answer that...i'm just curious and interested.

 

 

thanks guys,

-saboteur

[bigfan]

i just talked to dwight today

 

he assured me that there is no way a figure like this would have made it into the mass market via store sales.

 

he also explained that there are characteristics to catalog samples that will determine if it is such.

 

those characteristics are the same that have been pointed out here.

 

his thoughts on the mold variations are also as we stated. if these 2 customs have the same variants as other mickey cc's (which i have confirmed at least 4 now) then the possibility of it being painted over by a kid is extremely likely.

 

he went further to explain that the catalog photos we are referencing were done in 1981 so that means the items photoed were resins and/or hardcopies.

 

basically the 2 items are customs.

[cobrasaboteur]

what if they werent used for catalog photos or these could be painted first shots? i guess we can assume that these were customs done by the same kid a while back then until someone sees these both side by side in person.

 

thanks for everything guys!

 

hopefully we can show these to a few people at the con and i'll post back here in a few months!

-saboteur

[Tazzzman]

what if they werent used for catalog photos or these could be painted first shots? i guess we can assume that these were customs done by the same kid a while back then until someone sees these both side by side in person.

 

thanks for everything guys!

 

hopefully we can show these to a few people at the con and i'll post back here in a few months!

-saboteur

 

 

WOW, I did not think this would still be going on lol. Curt, I have one question for you and maybe you can ask Dwight, how come my CC does not have any stamps, in the inside torso, legs etc, there are zero stamps of the letter F1, F etc (like with my other CC's?) This is one thing that kind of puzzles me. Hopefully CC will bring his CC if he goes to the con so that we can compare my CC parts to his CC. Nonetheless, I only wanted the figure that I got on ebay for his arm (since my original straight arms were broken).

[zombieguide]

what if they werent used for catalog photos or these could be painted first shots? i guess we can assume that these were customs done by the same kid a while back then until someone sees these both side by side in person.

 

thanks for everything guys!

 

hopefully we can show these to a few people at the con and i'll post back here in a few months!

-saboteur

 

 

Woah! A concession at last.

[RedClaw]

what if they werent used for catalog photos or these could be painted first shots? i guess we can assume that these were customs done by the same kid a while back then until someone sees these both side by side in person.

 

thanks for everything guys!

 

hopefully we can show these to a few people at the con and i'll post back here in a few months!

-saboteur

 

 

Woah! A concession at last.

 

Considering that the explanation came from Dwight Stahl, I'm more then satisfied to know that these are nothing more then first run, no tooling stamp, mickey CC figures that some kids painted.

 

That is the end of that. If Sab wants to keep pushing this, he can continue to do so at his own will but that will most definitely be counter productive.

[JoeRhyno]

Anyone gotta crappy V1 they dont need? I wanna make a Cobrasaboteur Commander custom... I got some nice "blood red" looking for a home!!!

[bigfan]

what if they werent used for catalog photos or these could be painted first shots? i guess we can assume that these were customs done by the same kid a while back then until someone sees these both side by side in person.

 

thanks for everything guys!

 

hopefully we can show these to a few people at the con and i'll post back here in a few months!

-saboteur

 

 

WOW, I did not think this would still be going on lol. Curt, I have one question for you and maybe you can ask Dwight, how come my CC does not have any stamps, in the inside torso, legs etc, there are zero stamps of the letter F1, F etc (like with my other CC's?) This is one thing that kind of puzzles me. Hopefully CC will bring his CC if he goes to the con so that we can compare my CC parts to his CC. Nonetheless, I only wanted the figure that I got on ebay for his arm (since my original straight arms were broken).

 

there are now 5 confirmed no stamp versions. all that means is there was a stamp change or a factory change during production. not unheard of and not particularly rare or of importance.