v1 Cobra Commander Prototype

[cobrasaboteur]

 

I'm pretty happy to say the least. It corresponds what looks to me like the cobra commander preproduction piece on yojoe. Let me know what you think!

 

I resurrected this thread as well cause they are related pretty closely.

http://forums.toynewsi.com/index.php?showtopic=1957192

 

 

Here are the yojoe pics of the figure

 

 

 

 

 

-saboteur

[code red shockwave]

Wow neat score. How much did you get for him?

[BrotherShane]

Awesome, looks to be the real deal. Congrats man!

[GILTYONE]

Cool score. Weird emblem!

[cobrasaboteur]

thanks for some of the comments guys...i'll have more pics in a bit with a close up on the symbol.'

 

 

-saboteur

[Pit Viper]

Where did you get him?

[cobrasaboteur]

I got him on ebay.

 

-saboteur

[robot_sonic]

Very interesting. Did you get him from an American seller or someone overseas?

 

I'm still not convinced this is a completely legit variant. But, as more come up, the liklihood increases.

 

Can you get some pictures that are closer up and give more detail of the entire figure? I'd like to get a better look at the logo and how it's wearing.

[cobrasaboteur]

mike-

I got it from an american seller.

Its not a variant...this would be one of a kind, like all prototypes. The one in the other thread was probably used to photograph another catalogue or promotional insert of some sort, OR it was ditched for this one before the photoshoot took place. That is, there were two or more prototypes before they decided on this one to use to take the photos on the back of the 1982 gi joe case. another thing...the red paint is pretty hard to fade off...i know i dont have one 1982 or 1983 cobra commander that doesnt have a symbol...but like i said i'm gonna see if a black light will pick up rubbed symbols and then hold this one to the test.

 

-saboteur

[robot_sonic]

mike-

I got it from an american seller.

Its not a variant...this would be one of a kind, like all prototypes.

I guess my real question is whether the seller was in a position to authenticate this as the prototype. It's hard to tell from the photo, but it appears the figure has some paint wear. I wouldn't think a proto would feature that unless a Hasbro designer gave it to his kid.

[cobrasaboteur]

Did you see the cobra commander v1 proto that had a number in silver on his head??? that was listed as a proto and that had paint wear. These probably leaked out into collections or just turned up anywhere. I will ask the person i bought it from where he got it.

 

thanks,

mike

[cobrasaboteur]

the other thing is, who would fake a practically unknown prototype and then sell it NOT advertised as a prototype. If you were going to fake a figure, you'd definitely advertise it as the figure you wanted to fake...and do it with a figure more widely known figure, such as the viper pilot (see the other thread on that). This figure was not sold to me advertised as a proto.

 

-saboteur

[Tazzzman]

Great score too, it is interesting what you can find on ebay lol. All I wanted initally was CC's arm lol to repair one my other CC's and BAM, I got a proto lol.

[gilderdave]

if that's real, what a sick deal for 52.50!!!

[MaceWinduPreview]

is that the mickey mouse ears CC ? I have the MM/CC but i have never seen this one before. is it just the logo that maes it different

[cobrasaboteur]

got it today....its legit. Painted rivits, hand painted symbol, and hand painted thicker than normal and lighter than normal stripe down his let. The deciding factor is really the painted rivits though as well as the stripe.

 

thanks guys...i just took a crapload of pics but i'm having some problems gettin them from the camera to the comp.

 

-saboteur

[cobrasaboteur]

There we go.... more pics upon request too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is something to Note as well...i just realized that this figure does not have the manufacturing stamps that all other cobra commanders have....for example, if you take apart a cobra commander, there will be a 1 on one side of the very bottom of his head, and a letter F on the other side. Also on the back of the front torso there are two stamps, both saying 1F. This prototype has NONE of those stamps, on the back of the torso, OR on the very bottom of the head.

 

-saboteur

[MaceWinduPreview]

VERY COOL !! Nice find man.. I was thrilled when I got my MM CC, but this. this is something different. Very rare, very cool.

 

WTG !!

[Toiletmonkey1]

WOW! that was an amazing find man! it's like cobra commander the early years where he couldnt afford to have cobra symbols made and sewn on so he had to scrawl them on there with poster paint salvo style!!!

 

TM

[falcon7]

Really cool pics.

[Three Storms]

Coolness. I was thrilled just to get a regular straight-arm V.1 CC. Yours is much better obviously, due to rarity.

[BrotherShane]

Thanks for the pics, very cool indeed!

[Shane Turgeon]

First off, allow me to introduce myself...for those of you that don't know me, my name is Shane Turgeon and i'm well-known in the Joe community for being an avid GI Joe prototype and pre-production collector. I have many items, production and pre-production, shown on yojoe as well as on my website www.tattoosandtoys.com. I have actively been collecting vintage Star Wars and GI Joe prototypes and studying the production process for MANY years and am well-respected in both communities for my knowledge on the subject.

 

I followed this thread when it first came up and was very skeptical of the claims that were being made about this figure at the time. I forgot to check back and after seeing Cobra Saboteur's post on yojoe today, i came back to see the new pics and was compelled to post. Please allow me to explain to you why there's just no way this is a prototype, or even a production variant.

 

For starters, for the figure to have even gotten from the 2:1 hardcopy stage to the 1:1 first shot stage, i can assure you, the handpainted details that would be required for a photo sample would have to be MUCH sharper than that. A true handpainted first shot example, like you're claiming this to be, would have an immaculate paint job and it wouldn't like it was painted by a 4 year old, which yours does.

 

Here's an example of a true handpainted first shot:

http://www.tattoosandtoys.com/images_yours/CCV3fs01.jpg

 

You can see how it looks almost identical to the production version. And i'm sorry to say, the logo on yours doesn't even look close to the "variant" or prototype logo as seen in Hasbro photography. Sure, it's big, that's about where all the similarities end. Trust me when i say Hasbro's in-house artists were much more talented than that!

 

Secondly, the figure shown in the Hasbro photos you posted is a hardcopy, not a first shot. That means it was handmade out of resin and then completely hand painted, not injection molded in production quality and colour plastics with only a portion of it handpainted (and poorly at that). You can also see the differences in the cod piece between the hardcopy in the photos and the one you have - the cod piece is much thicker as opposed to the one on the production example you have.

 

The mold ID stamps you're referring to really have no bearing on this item being a prototype. The only stamps that are of concern are the standard date and copyright info found on all production figures. These are the last details cut into the steel production mold and are only done so after the molds have been tested and the initial first shots have been approved. It is also possible to still find first shots with dates and copyright info so this is not always an indicator of an item being a prototype. You'll find a wide variety of numerical discrepencies when looking for mold ID numbers on production figures and quite often, you won't find them at all. This is not an indicator of an item being a prototype.

 

When present on a figure, the mold ID numbers you're referring to are cut into the molds from the get go - the reason for this is so the molds can be identified in case problems occur within a certain batch of figures. If this happens, the quality control department can then easily ID and troubleshoot the offending mold. But as i said, this was not always done.

 

Compared to the other, Cobra Commander logo thread by Tazzman from here on TNI you referenced earlier, the one pictured there doesn't even have a matching number of stripes in the logo - there are 4 on the left side and 5 on the right. At least yours has 5 on each side but that right there is an indicator that this is NOT a production variant, let alone a prototype. To think that Hasbro would even allow for such a shoddy spray mask to be used during production is ridiculous. And if an in house artist came up with something like this for photography purposes, they probably would have been fired. Check that, if this was the quality of their work, they wouldn't even have been hired in the first place. There's definitely no way that either of these are anything other than a homemade job by some kid who's CC logo wore off.

 

Lastly comes provenance. That means the items history and it's the most important part of determining the authenticity of a prototype. You item was bought off of ebay from a seller with no ties to Hasbro and, from what i've read, who isn't even located close to Rhode Island. The seller has no experience selling prototypes and doesn't even know what a prototype is.

 

I certainly mean no offence when i say this but people who have no experience whatsoever in collecting, let alone researching or authenticating, prototypes are really in no position to be making wild claims about what an item might be. I certainly don't mean to belittle anyone's collecting knowledge here, but it's clear that the majority of you have very little first hand experience with legitimate vintage prototypes and are far to eager to believe what you want, just because you want it to be something other than what it is.

 

You're more than welcome to continue going on with your head's in the sand, thinking that these are prototypes or production variants but the bottom line is, these are nothing more than well-played with toys that got a homemade refurbishing.

 

If you are interested in learning more about prototypes, or if you have items that you are unsure about, i am always free to discuss the subject and am more than willing to help other collectors out. I can be reached anytime through the email address posted on my website above.

[cobrasaboteur]

No offense was meant when i posted this figure...

i am not a prototype collector, however i do have some background in the subject. I have to say i really think this is some type of preproduction piece. It may not be the one in the photo on the back of the figure case. How is it even known that those were resin copies? Also, you say that only a portion of it is ahandpainted....all of it is definitely handpainted besides the base blue color... THere is NO sign of any factory paint.

 

also you say that the hasbro team was much better at painting then this figure shows...and you give an example with a figure from 1987, a long way into the gi joe line when it had already been established. Even the one on the back of the case has a big sloppy symbol...also look at the other early preproduction figures...look at the original cobra soldiers/officers, their preproduction symbols looked TERRIBLE.

 

The painted rivets are also there (all four arm rivets since it is straight arm)...with the straight arm cobra commanders haveing slightly blue rivets and this one having the plain steel colored ones and painted over

 

as for the mold stamps...i will check all my other cobra commanders to see if they are missing their stamp... i invite everyone else to do the same just in case.

 

1982 and 82/83 cobra commanders have slightly blue rivets and this one has the plain steel colored ones and painted over

 

shane- if you would like to know anything else about the figure or would like to talk about prototypes my email is cobrasaboteur@hotmail.com

 

hopefully you will be at this years convention as i hope to attend and would be more than happy to bring along this figure for you to see.

 

-saboteur

[cobrasaboteur]

Just checked 7 other staight arm and swivel v1 cobra commanders....ALL of them had "1F" twice on their inner torso and once on the base of the swivel head.

 

-saboteur

 

edit: found one more, opened it up, and it has the stamps as well...thats up to 8 with the stamp 0 without.